Less talked about nerf in LU 19

[gr8scott]

<div>People are talking about the dumbfire pet nerf, but I haven't heard anyone mention the other 'nerf' in LU 19.</div><div> </div><div>I use seism a lot soloing as a desperate stun/knockdown.  Adding another 4 seconds of stun to allow consumption to do its stff, etc is very nice. </div><div> </div><div>LU 19 takes away seism, and I don't see anything similar replacing it.</div><div> </div><div>Other people concerned about losing seism or am I the only one?  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>greatscott</div>

[Magu]

Not really a nerf, Seism is junk once you get the replacements. The knockback isn't worth losing the lifetap, IMO.<div></div>

[Kasandria]

<div>I don't agree, I think it is a nerf.  What are the replacements that are worth losing the knockdown for?</div>

[Named]

<div>Eh its not so much losing seism.. More about loosing our magic damage spells. All we're going to have is Word of Force...</div>

[Magu]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Kasandria wrote:<div>I don't agree, I think it is a nerf.  What are the replacements that are worth losing the knockdown for?</div><hr></blockquote>Breath of the Unearthed, etc. I'd rather have a lifetap then a silly knockdown.</span></div>

[soulrais]

<div></div><p>1. the recast timer is faster on siesm then the aoe lifetaps..</p><p>2. the stun knockback effect is cool looking</p><p>3. as well as they extra few sec stun helps alot when doing heroic named groups like in silent city ---- the channel summoners / lions / helps keep them stunned till pet pullls agro so u can burn them down</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>oppss did i say that out loud ... we can solo named heroic groups hehe</p>

[Kasandria]

<div></div><p>The following Table is based on Xalmat's fine work.  Things that are nerfs are in red, things that are nerfs just because it takes longer to do the same damage are in gold, things that are improvements are in blue and things that are pushes are in black.  Now, someone tell me how this isn't a nerf.</p><p> </p><p><img src="http://kasandra.us/EQ2/NecroNerf.jpg"></p>

[Cryl]

Seism is a great trick on duels... cast it b4 duel starts... instant 3 sec stun.. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Fikrenv]

<div></div><p>Just curious, I dont see in the update notes where it says seism is removed. </p><p>The only thing I can think of that would cause someone to think this is that we no longer have to go through the class and sub-class routine.  Is this what you are referring to?</p><p>I also consider this a nerf.  This is the only stun I have that affects epic encounters. </p><p>Goji60 NecroHighkeep</p>

[Fikrenv]

<div>Just read Kasandria's post.  Now I see where we get this information.</div><div> </div><div>I find this frustrating.  What a great skill to lose.   I use both my AOE lifetap and my AOE stun as the occassion requires.  The epic stun was nice on when needed.</div><div> </div><div>Goji</div>

[Named]

<div>Seism ( the stun portion ) DOESN'T effect epics.</div>

[Infecti]

<div></div>Yes this nerf is going to bug me.. more then dumbfire pets tbh.  Yeah the life tap does more dmg and i do use it more then seism but theres been many times where ive chosen the 3sec stun over the life tap and its saved my life.  i have both spells on my toolbar and i use whichever i think will be more handy in the situation... i mean using grasp and seism can buy you plenty of time to heal a pet back up or to run for your life... oh well.

[Za]

yeah not really a nerf... although it was nice having a conjurer spell in my toolkit, I understand the situation.Again... this is NOT a nerf. The replacement for Seism will be a necro specific spell. What we're loosing is no different than any other class that had an ability spill over from their component class.From my experience, it just seems that all pre-20 archetypes tended to get skills more related to Qeynosian classes than the Freeport derivitive, so the evil aligned classes will actually "loose" more... but that just fair. Conjurers never had a lifetap just because summoners pre 20 got one and they used it at L60. Conj don't get any disease based spillovers... etc.As I said... sure I'll miss it, but I'm mature enough to recognize that its not a nerf and it really is for the better of the game.<p>Message Edited by Zald on <span class="date_text">01-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:10 AM</span></p>

[Kasandria]

<div></div><div>Zald, whether or not one thinks the changes are 'fair' or not has nothing to do with whether something is a nerf or not.  A nerf is a decrease in abilities.  This is a nerf.  I understand it doesn't bother you but that doesn't mean that our toolbox isn't being reduced.  Please don't rewrite the lingo, it's confusing enough at times as it is LOL</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[cfteagu]

<div></div><div>Kas, I used to use similar arguments to rule that the combat revamp was a game-wide nerf.   Since, it lessened our (and everyones) abilities.</div><div> </div><div>In the end, the point is moot.  It's not going to change.  If you want Conj spells, you can use the new betray at any level option to become a Conj.</div><div> </div>

[Za]

<blockquote><hr>Kasandria wrote:<div></div><div>Zald, whether or not one thinks the changes are 'fair' or not has nothing to do with whether something is a nerf or not.  A nerf is a decrease in abilities.  This is a nerf.  I understand it doesn't bother you but that doesn't mean that our toolbox isn't being reduced.  Please don't rewrite the lingo, it's confusing enough at times as it is LOL</div><div> </div><div> </div><hr></blockquote>Call it whatever you want. Call is a cow if it gets you off.Our toolbox is only being reduced cuz we stole someone elses tool for so long and no one ever asked for it back.How many other L10-20 spells do you use on a regular bases besides the ones that aren't supposed to be upgraded (ie... invis, CoQ, etc...?)NONE. Call it a bug fix if you like. Like I said, its functionality it was nice to have, but you'd have to be a fool or a lier to not realize that this was a Conjurer skill line that just happened to not diminish in usefulness becasue it had attributes we no longer got (and weren't supposed to have) at higher levels.So yes, I agree, call it what it is, but in the traditional sence its not a nerf to necros to fix something that was always a little broken.

[gr8scott]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Zald wrote:How many other L10-20 spells do you use on a regular bases besides the ones that aren't supposed to be upgraded (ie... invis, CoQ, etc...?)NONE. Call it a bug fix if you like. Like I said, its functionality it was nice to have, but you'd have to be a fool or a lier to not realize that this was a Conjurer skill line that just happened to not diminish in usefulness becasue it had attributes we no longer got (and weren't supposed to have) at higher levels.So yes, I agree, call it what it is, but in the traditional sence its not a nerf to necros to fix something that was always a little broken.<hr></blockquote><p>I see your point Zald, but I don't think they are taking away seism because of some grand scheme to enforce consitency.  When we were a summoner, we got some abilities that were in both the conjuror and the necro toolbox.  As we grew into the necro role, our conjuror like powers stagnated, but did not go away.  Similar thing happened with the conjuror.</p><p>The reason I believe it is just chance and not a grand scheme is the main necro skill we got as a summoner (splinter of essence--hp to power), is going to REMAIN in the conjuror bag of tricks.  I got no problem with that.  They learned it when they were deciding on their profession.  I do have a problem with us losing our conjuror skill.</p><p>GS</p><p> </p><p></p><p>Message Edited by gr8scott on <span class="date_text">01-31-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:25 PM</span></p>

[Magu]

Uh, the HP->power items are not primarily a necro thing. They never have been and never will be. You can't act like Conjurors having hp->pow shards (which we already have) is any similar to you being able to use the old Seism spell.You have Dark Hearts, we have the Splinter/Shard of Essence.We have the Seism line, you get the AE lifetap.  (Personally, I'd take the lifetap any day, but that's just me)<div></div>

[schrammy]

<div><p>While the lifetap is an extremely nice move to have in ones arsenal, Its not something i use over the seism in every case tho.</p><p>Sometimes the thing that saves your behind is a stun rather then a + HP <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p><p>And Scot: The mana transfer/convert thingy is known by other classes as well, just the clickable objects are unique to us i believe.</p></div>

[Magu]

They're unique to summoners, NOT necros.As I said, Conjurors have, and always have had, the essence line to create clickable objects.<div></div>

[schrammy]

<div>us=summoners :p</div>

[Magu]

Should be more clear when referring to summoners. This = necro board, so us = necros <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[schrammy]

<div></div>yes, your greatness, In the future i shall be more carefull when highly respected characters as yourself are around to read my writings

[Uanelven]

Summoner has always just been a 10-19 Conjurer and at 20 you turn Necro or continue with Conjurer.  That was just the way it was.  Balance issues aside for a moment,  I never liked being a rock thrower when I was in those levels.   Still a bit embarrassed when I use it now tbh..  :smileywink:<span></span><div></div>

[schrammy]

<div>LOL, thats exactly how i used to feel about it, Untill i realised its the only way to beat brawlers in duels <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />))</div>

[Za]

Well after playing my new necro Char to L20 on test, I can say that the whole progression now feels necroish! Which is great.I'll deffinately create a necro on the PvP server, cuz as it stands now, necros are just as deally at L1- 20 as they are at L60! Even without those gimpy Conjurer tricks. =)

[Tallika_Runwithbears]

i was glad when i outgrew seism.  i got so sick of rocks falling out of the sky.<div></div>