Upcoming Necro NERF -- Test Update 19a -- Dumbfire pets back to taking AoE dmg

[Gargamel]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div><strong><font color="#ffcc00"><font color="#ff0000"><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=100">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=100</a></font></font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#ffcc00"><font color="#ff0000"></font></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#ffcc00"><font color="#ff0000">Test Update #19a: January 11, 2006</font> </font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#ffcc00"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#ffcc00">*** Spells, Abilities, and Combat Arts ***</font></strong></div><div>- Dumbfire pets will now receive damage from AoEs that do not explicitly target them.</div><div> </div><div><hr></div><div> </div><div>Meh... I'm glad I still have my /respec, as my Master 2 dogs are going to be [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] near worthless against any heroic or raid mobs...</div><div> </div><div>:smileymad:</div><div> </div><div>Disussion also <a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=30&message.id=16301">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=30&message.id=16301</a></div><div> </div><div> Lots of arguing over in the Testing Feedback Forum, in case you wanted to stop over and 'represent', I'm sure it would help<a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board?board.id=testfeed">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board?board.id=testfeed</a></div><div> </div><div>P.S. I'm betting they put it in, and after 2-3 months they decide to buff dumbfire pet hp as some kind of solution <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by Gargamel on <span class="date_text">01-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:07 PM</span></p>

[Magu]

Why is everyone complaining so much about this change? It's not like this is a huge cut to our DPS...<div></div>

[Named]

<div>Yes it is magus, my dumbfires put out about 15% of my dps. M2 dogs with M1 stench.</div>

[Mordak]

<span><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:Why is everyone complaining so much about this change? It's not like this is a huge cut to our DPS...<div></div><hr></blockquote></span><span>I must disagree.  Parsing out dumbfires on heroic/raid mobs show  them doing anywhere from 10-15% of total DPS for us (from my experience).  That is a significant amount.  If dumbfires die within the first 10 seconds of a fight due to AoE, our DPS takes a significant blow.  I personally do not want to have my dumbfires relegated to soloing duty only.</span>

[Magu]

10% is nothing. Now, if this was 50% or such, that'd be something to whine about.<div></div>

[Named]

<div>If they allow buffs to hit dumbfires, then it would sort of balance out.. Well timed dumbfires + consumption + other procs would be good. I still think that this is a horrid change.</div>

[Thakar]

Even if buffs still hit dumbfire pets, it still won't counteract this nerf because the HP on our dumbfire pet is so low...why would they do this?<div></div>

[Sir Alex]

<div></div>come on when they nerfed lich 50%  some were says well its not that big adeal but it seems that they keep taking and taking and giving little back to compensate, now they want to take another 10% to 15% it all adds up.

[quamdar]

yeah that is how they screw you.  little by little they take away 10% here, another 15% from something else and you end up a mere shadow of what your class used to be.  honestly was it unbalancing the way it was?  i really don't understand why sony focuses on stupid things like this when there are way more unbalancing things.  they take the time to nerf our DPS that wasn't out of line to begin with (they said so themselves that pre-lich nerf we were good) but they still haven't done anything to fix classes like enchanters.  gotta love the priorities.i do have to say though if they made consumption work for dumbfires that would more than make up for this nerf.  prolly be a bit much but then again it could also make up for the lich nerf a little too which they never did like they promised.<div></div>

[Nibbl]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sir Alex wrote:<div></div>come on when they nerfed lich 50%  some were says well its not that big adeal but it seems that they keep taking and taking and giving little back to compensate, now they want to take another 10% to 15% it all adds up.<hr></blockquote><p>/bingo</p><p>it keeps coming</p>

[Elik]

<div></div>Plain stupid, Its just a DOT with some nice graphics. So why not make ALL classes offensive DOT's break on AOE... Do it to the Warlocks DOT's, to the Defilers DOT's, great idea! :smileyindifferent:

[Mordak]

<span><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:10% is nothing. Now, if this was 50% or such, that'd be something to whine about.<div></div><hr></blockquote>No, 10% is not nothing.  10-15% is 10-15%.<font color="#ff0000"></font><font color="#ff0000">"You attempt to use a hypothetical worst-case scenario to minimize the current point of contention, but miss!"</font></span><div></div>

[KBern]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:10% is nothing. Now, if this was 50% or such, that'd be something to whine about.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>If you dont think swarm pets are a major source of our DPS then you just dont use them.</p><p>I know you are conj and not a necro, so I cant talk about how it will affect you all, but necros do not have damage shields or pet/PC proc buffs for damage either.</p><p>To necros, this is a major DPS nerf on raids.</p>

[Xebars]

<span><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:10% is nothing. Now, if this was 50% or such, that'd be something to whine about.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Hehe...why don't you go ask Paladins how the 12% nerf to Amends affected them....Saying 10% is nothing is like saying a tank in full T6 Raid-Fabled is only slightly better than one in T6 crafted...since hey, the mit numbers are only about 12-14% apart.I've never seen one that posts so much, yet knows so little.  You'd think eventually osmosis would have some effect...</span><div></div>

[KBern]

<div></div>No he is not that ignorant...he just likes to troll.

[Eirgo]

<div></div><p>Bored on a Friday at work so I decided to throw some numbers out there.  I know these wont be typical for everyone's playstyle - but here is a graph of my dps from a raid the other night.  It was SoTL and Tremblar - so alot of green x4s, but also alot of AEs that would kill the dumbfire pets post LU19.  Alot of the mobs in there also have several immunities which lowers DPS on certain fights, but overall I think it is accurate enough.</p><p>As for how I play - I usually debuff right off, then send dumbfires then go into my cast chains, refreshing dumbfires as soon as the recast timer is back up.  I feel the dumbfires are a huge portion of our damage if used properly and consistently.</p><p>Here is the breakdown of the damage I did in percentages (42 min of fighting)</p><p> </p><p><img src="http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y53/Eirgorn/DPSgraph.png" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com"></p><p>As you can see 30% of my damage is from my pets (nightshade and GT) and 24% is from the dumbfires.  Together these make up over half of my DPS and are about to both be killable by AEs.  I dont mind jousting if need be, but I would like the cast/recast timers to allow this to be efficient.  As it stands now, on a normal epic with a 30s AE timer and 45s recasts on the dumbfires I will loose the dumbfire damage pretty much every other cycle. EX:</p><p>TIME 0 - AE HITS after pull</p><p>SEND DUMBFIRES</p><p>TIME 30 AE HITS killing dumbfires</p><p>TIME 45 recast time up on dumbfires - but if you cast them they will only get in 10 s of fighting before next AE and that will restart the timer - best to wait till next AE goes off</p><p>TIME 60 AE</p><p>Resend dumbfires ..... repeat</p><p> </p><p>See we now miss 1/2 of the time our dogs are out (30s out of every min compared to non stop like they are now) and 1/4 of our stench damage (currently up 30/45s will be up 30s/min)  Thats a 5.5% decrease in my DPS on the dogs and 3.25% DPS decrease in my stench for an overall nerf of almost 9%.</p><p>Here is a chart of my actual damage from that night's raids to show the sample size:</p><p> </p><img src="http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y53/Eirgorn/SoTLnimmhdps.gif" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

[Cryl]

personally i like playing a necro, i don't give a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] how much damage i do, i just like playing one... when they sucked.. i played a necro, and if they get nerfed so badly that they suck again, i'll play a necro still and be happy knowing that all the peeps that rerolled just because necros were made uber will quit to reroll again and i'll be special... <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />be happy with what you have and play the game... <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[NUKER 1]

<div>we were broken for so long before the great fix.... and ever since slow but sure there makin us less and less... it's just another bs thing... there'll be more nerfs i figure tell were back to worthless like in the old days... my necro was fun after the great fix.. why break him again? lemme guess to make it funner for all? whatver.. total bs.. with more otw i think... untill we quit playing to cost um money this is how itll be.. enjoy your class now.. cause more nerfs otw</div>

[Named]

<div>I've already written a PM to Lockeye. I urge others to write out thoughtful petitions to him as well commenting on our multiple nerfs since DoF and broken promises about DoTs being upgraded. Perhaps we will eventually get some sort of repsonse, or atleast some reasoning as to this change.</div><div> </div><div>I get the same kind of numbers for dumbifre pets that Nimmh does, and as per his calculations we're getting a minimum of 9% dps nerf. On top of our previous ~10% dps nerf from lich. I played for months as a broken Necro pre DoF and I really do not wish to return there.</div>

[Zaphi]

<div></div>Hehe I wonder what will happen to us now. Seems our nukes' and dots' resist checks were stealth nerfed since I can barely land any on the mobs in GoAA even with master 1s and +disruption buffs, unlike before. I am mostly relying on our main and dumbfire pets to do the damage because of that and now with this nerf we probably be sitting ducks like the sorcerers if we encounter any raid mobs with high resists that aoes frequently. 

[XBr]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Named88 wrote:<div>I've already written a PM to Lockeye. I urge others to write out thoughtful petitions to him as well commenting on our multiple nerfs since DoF and broken promises about DoTs being upgraded. Perhaps we will eventually get some sort of repsonse, or atleast some reasoning as to this change.</div><div> </div><div>I get the same kind of numbers for dumbifre pets that Nimmh does, and as per his calculations we're getting a minimum of 9% dps nerf. On top of our previous ~10% dps nerf from lich. I played for months as a broken Necro pre DoF and I really do not wish to return there.</div><hr></blockquote>This is the wrong nerf. I can see that the intention might have been simply to scale back the damage from our dumbfires a bit. But the way this has been done specifically reduces the effectiveness of summoners on raids, hardly at all anywhere else. I don't understand the wish to penalize raiders but not casual players.

[Eirgo]

<div></div><p>Just to play Devils Advocate - maybe raid situations were the only places they saw up overpowered, in long fights where power pools can be drained and power effeciency is key.  Perhaps they felt the power/dps ratio on the dumbfires were too high when they were up for thier full duration in raids. </p><p>I know if I die on a raid, the first thing I cast when I get back up is my dumbfires, so they can start chomping at mobs while I get a new pet out to drain for power to get back into the fray.</p>

[Gargamel]

<div></div>Excellent analysis!  Thanks for the graph (ironically the Necro nerfs are the result of too accurate / widespread necro parse's, but I digress)Thats what I was saying in my post... AT BEST (even if you 'joust' perfectly) you will end up loosing 50% of the DPS you currently get from Dumbfirepets.For 'average' joe 6-pack, it will be more like 75% of your dumbfire DPS, since there is a 30s timer on their AoE cast, and a 15s casting timer on the pets.... you ONLY loose 50% if you happen to predict their AoE perfectly and FINISH casting just after he casts (and not START casting after he casts the AoE)Anyway, the worst part is that SO MANY Necros took the dogs for lvl 52 training spell, so we are getting a pretty big nerf to a very late master 2 level spell, MAINLY against raid mobs, which was supposed to be our specialty.Talk about a triple ouch.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Gargamel on <span class="date_text">01-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:40 PM</span></p>

[Gargamel]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Eirgorn wrote:<div></div><p>Just to play Devils Advocate - maybe raid situations were the only places they saw up overpowered, in long fights where power pools can be drained and power effeciency is key.  Perhaps they felt the power/dps ratio on the dumbfires were too high when they were up for thier full duration in raids. </p><p>I know if I die on a raid, the first thing I cast when I get back up is my dumbfires, so they can start chomping at mobs while I get a new pet out to drain for power to get back into the fray.</p><hr></blockquote>Actually I'm currently thinking its a result of a 'new feature' and subsequent 'bug'.Specifically... mobs that use 'dumbfire' pets (continuing with the quasi-dumbfire pets they gave most classes)I'm betting they could not figure a way to flag those to take AoE dmg, while leaving the summoner pets as needing to be specifically targeted.It would be so typically SoE to just remove the 'immunity' from everything as a 'fix'.All conjecture of course.... but as far as 'too good in raids', its been stated since BEFORE release that was a class defining characteristic.  Everything shows we are a weaker class than other DPS roles with lower lvl mobs (green/blue), or large groups where the Warlock rules.  We were supposed to be masters of power, with higher regen and lich and sphiphon and all.  Always talking about how are class defiing was better in long raid fights where we had more power to spend and more time for our single target DoTs and pets to reach their full potential.  Potential that is more or less 'wasted' on the wrong type of fight.Anyway, just my 2c why I don't think that is the original cause of all this.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Gargamel on <span class="date_text">01-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:37 PM</span></p>

[Parax]

This is why I play World of Warcraft now most of the time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Iumia]

<div></div><div>Totally agree with the concerns. I have no idea what percentage of my damage is down to pets, only in the late 30's myself. Still serious cause for worry.</div><div> </div><div>Eirgorn - mind if I ask what parser that is, or how you put that spreadsheet together? I've been shopping around, and although I've tried EQCompanion (0.79<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, it won't run the log file without numerous errors.</div>

[Eirgo]

<div></div><p>Sure, its the Advanced Combat Tracker found here:  <a target="_blank" href="http://home.maine.rr.com/eqaditu/ACT/">http://home.maine.rr.com/eqaditu/ACT/</a></p><p>I was using EQC up until a couple weeks ago when I started using ACT and haven't looked back since.  It is excellent for both real time and off line parsing complete with mob resists and pretty charts!</p>

[Calib]

first the elimination of the ward.then the pet mitagation. then the lich nerf.then the dumbfire pets made weaker.each time we say "its just a small thing"but it all adds up....little by little......<div></div>

[Allowen]

<div></div><p>Our dumbfire pets so far as I could see they do near zero dps on most lv 65(orange com) mobs on raids when normal pets ad3 can hit mobs(unless some oen is immune to some kind damage that pet can do) when my master I swarm pets gets full resists.</p><p>I will give you an exemple, that queen named at SC raid, she is real weak to noxious damage, my pet normal ad3 scout pet can do hell a lot dps on her(until she aoes again in liek 25 secs and bye bye pet ,eh) but for some reason the dogs/stench are 100pct resisted.</p><p>My point is with this post, if they will make these dumbfire pets on the target of named mob s AoEs then I want at last my stench of the grave to be a normal dot as it was before DoF expansion, it was our BEST dot(ok ok, it was single target and stench can aoe dps).</p><p>I belive that many ppl complains about dumbfire pets raise a lot lag on raid encounter mobs and making those pets vunerable to aoe would reduce lag but I belive it is still not the solution to fix this .If they THINK these pets are THAT high dps to be nefred then agai ncheck the dps they do on orange com fights !!</p><p> Why not go nerf rangers that are way doing a lot more dps the all the mages (I can barely do on every fight more dps then a ranger with uber gear for just a few fights on raids).</p><p>Yah nerf ranger/assassin and upgrade sorcerors and leave the summoners alone.</p><p>Anyways to end my post I would like to say that at the end we will get used to the changes but revamp on spells to change dps is coming almost every month now, Come on, put an end on this !</p><p> </p><p>Allowen</p><p>necromancer of MM server</p><p>Lords of the triple moons guild</p>

[Romka]

<span><blockquote><hr>Allowen wrote:<div></div><p>Our dumbfire pets so far as I could see they do near zero dps on most lv 65(orange com) mobs on raids when normal pets ad3 can hit mobs(unless some oen is immune to some kind damage that pet can do) when my master I swarm pets gets full resists.</p><p>I will give you an exemple, that queen named at SC raid, she is real weak to noxious damage, my pet normal ad3 scout pet can do hell a lot dps on her(until she aoes again in liek 25 secs and bye bye pet ,eh) but for some reason the dogs/stench are 100pct resisted.</p><p>My point is with this post, if they will make these dumbfire pets on the target of named mob s AoEs then I want at last my stench of the grave to be a normal dot as it was before DoF expansion, it was our BEST dot(ok ok, it was single target and stench can aoe dps).</p><p>I belive that many ppl complains about dumbfire pets raise a lot lag on raid encounter mobs and making those pets vunerable to aoe would reduce lag but I belive it is still not the solution to fix this .If they THINK these pets are THAT high dps to be nefred then agai ncheck the dps they do on orange com fights !!</p><p> Why not go nerf rangers that are way doing a lot more dps the all the mages (I can barely do on every fight more dps then a ranger with uber gear for just a few fights on raids).</p><p>Yah nerf ranger/assassin and upgrade sorcerors and leave the summoners alone.</p><p>Anyways to end my post I would like to say that at the end we will get used to the changes but revamp on spells to change dps is coming almost every month now, Come on, put an end on this !</p><p> </p><p>Allowen</p><p>necromancer of MM server</p><p>Lords of the triple moons guild</p><hr></blockquote>BQ is crush immune. Dogs are doing 100% crush damage. So simple.</span><div></div>

[Named]

<div>Stench hits for disease.... It only has problems on disease immune mobs.</div>

[Allowen]

<div></div><div>Sorry if I did not make myself clear with my previous post , I meant to say that on orange mobs lv 65+ my dumbfire pets dont do a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] hit on mobs(does not matter if mob is weak to WAHT EVER ATTACK), it is all miss attacks and resists, even when mob is weak to noxious and so I hit with spells np and so my normal pets the swarm pets still get resists and mine are master I lv .</div><div> </div><div>But if you did not notice 100pct resists of your swarm pets on nameds and common mobs on raids orange com plus then check it agai nand you will see.</div><div>I sent soem bug reports a long time ago and again but still not fixed and so other necros I know that noticed the same problem and sent feedback/bug reports.</div><div> </div><div>Allowen</div><div>necromancer of MM server</div><div>Lords of the triple moons guild</div>

[KingNothing4]

<div></div>100% resists? ...... man what the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] are u talking about..... ive never had any resist problems with swarm pets and orange epic mobs.....

[WooTast]

What I "blame" for this is SOE's lack of creativity in making raid encounters challenging.  Substantially the only way they seem to be able to make raids hard these days is by putting aoe's on epic encounters.  On the one hand, it's an easily-tuneable attribute of the encounter.  Want to make the encounter harder? Up the total aoe damage. Want to make it easier -- lower the damage. When a damage-dealing entity is not affected by the aoe's, said tuning does not affect them.  If my theory is correct, brigands better watch their backs.<div></div>

[Romka]

<span><blockquote><hr>Allowen wrote:<div></div><div>Sorry if I did not make myself clear with my previous post , I meant to say that on orange mobs lv 65+ my dumbfire pets dont do a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] hit on mobs(does not matter if mob is weak to WAHT EVER ATTACK), it is all miss attacks and resists, even when mob is weak to noxious and so I hit with spells np and so my normal pets the swarm pets still get resists and mine are master I lv .</div><div> </div><div>But if you did not notice 100pct resists of your swarm pets on nameds and common mobs on raids orange com plus then check it agai nand you will see.</div><div>I sent soem bug reports a long time ago and again but still not fixed and so other necros I know that noticed the same problem and sent feedback/bug reports.</div><div> </div><div>Allowen</div><div>necromancer of MM server</div><div>Lords of the triple moons guild</div><hr></blockquote>100% resists? On orange? 65lvl+ you mean? Would I surprise you If i tell that my swarm pets have same miss rate on orange mobs (even 68lvl) as all other melee classes? They doing 0 damage ONLY on immune mobs. And please, dont force me to post parse results here.</span><div></div>

[Eyes_of_Truth]

<div></div><p>Simple logic for all you necros out there,</p><p> </p><p>The devs will have two options:</p><p>A) Allow dumbfire pets of any class be immune to AOE damage from foes, but restrict the pets by not allowing them the group's beneficial buffs/heals</p><p>- or -</p><p>B) Allow dumbire pets to be targeted by AOE damage from foes, and allow group's beneficial buffs/heals to effect pets (including pet buffs)</p><p>- but never -</p><p>C) Allow dumbire pets to be targeted by AOE damage from foes, but not allow group's beneficial buffs/heals to effect pets (this is a double standerd, pets can not recive the negative effects ment for the group w/out being able to recieve the possitive effects ment for the group)</p><p> </p><p>If they choose option B, they could change the pet defensive stance to provide one free Stoneskin every 30 seconds, and this would effect all of your pets, so your dumbfire pets could recive a "free hit" from an AOE attack every 30 seconds, but deal less damage since they also undergo the defensive stance's penalties.</p><p>I dont mind if dumbfire pets can be killed by AOE, so long as we have a means of protecting them, and if the group then has the ability to increase their offensive and defense though buffs. Also, if our pet heal healed ALL of our pets (and if the pet-stoneskin buff conjurors recive also effected all minons), this change would be easier to bare.</p>

[Named]

<div>Currently on test they are hitable by AEs but don't receive group buffs....</div>

[Eyes_of_Truth]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Named88 wrote:<div>Currently on test they are hitable by AEs but don't receive group buffs....</div><hr></blockquote><p> </p><p><span><font size="4"><font color="#ffffff">Then this is a travesty on logic...</font></font></span></p><p><span><font size="4"><font color="#ffffff">LU19b better enable them to receive group buffs or make them immune to AOE damage.</font></font></span></p><p><span><font size="4"><font color="#ffffff">I’m not going to play a game with double standards...</font></font></span></p><p><span><font size="4"><font color="#ffffff">Ether they are pets and there for recive aoe damage and group beneficial spells or they are dots, curable but not able to be killed via indirect AOE attacks.</font></font></span></p><p><span><font size="4"><font color="#ffffff">The devs CAN NOT make them subjected to AOE w/out giving us the ability to bloister our pets with group buffs.</font></font></span></p><p><span><font size="4"><font color="#ffffff">Simple logic, they are my minon and get my buffs as well as my groups, or they are my uncontrolable damage tools that do not recive my help, nor are hindered by mobs that are not directly focusing on them.</font></font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman"><font size="4"><font color="#ffffff"></font></font></font></span> </p><p> </p>

[Seregfe]

<div></div>They can, Eyes_of_Truth. Please keep in mind: They're amateures, and all of them.

[Reposa]

Wouldn't matter so much if they didn't transfer hate to you.<div></div>

[quamdar]

yeah this is stupid give us something.  you nerf and nerf and nerf after saying you liked where our DPS was, why was that comment even made if you were going to nerf us again.  also are those increases to deathly coil and torrential plague finally coming with LU 19 too?  would really like to see a dev comment on why this is happening and why they said before our DPS was good and are again nerfing us because i am somewhat bewildered right now.<span><span></span></span><div></div>

[Goozman]

<div></div><p>Try parsing yellow-orange raids. I did last night with a conjuror and 2 necros on it. this is what I saw from dumbfire pets</p><p>miss miss miss miss miss no damage miss miss miss miss miss miss miss miss miss miss miss miss no damage miss miss miss miss miss no damage miss miss 110 miss miss</p><p>They accounted for <1% of the summoners' dps</p>

[Thakar]

What quality swarm pets were you using? My M2 dogs and M1 Stench don't miss nearly that much, especially if I position them correctly to avoid parries and ripostes.<div></div>

[Named]

<div></div><div>Here is a compiled parse of my damage out put during a PP2 raid. This is from start to finish. Many mobs in PP2 are 65+, with a few reaching up to 68.</div><div> </div><div><img src="http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/3955/pp2chart4aw.jpg"></div><div> </div><div>As you can see, Stench of the grave was my #3 dmg dealer at ~600k dmg. The dogs were #7 at ~330k dmg. All my damage releated spells are M1. This includes all pets and pet buffs. I have M2 dogs. I have the proc hat ( strike of living flames ) and the proc neck ( wraith touch ). Dynamism is a single target illusionist proc buff. Ice lash is a wizard group proc buff.</div><div> </div><div>Also I believe that my procing gear broke about 1/2 way into the zone, so their numbers are a bit skewed and should be higher.</div><p>Message Edited by Named88 on <span class="date_text">01-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:41 PM</span></p>

[Goozman]

<div></div>was mainly looking at the named mobs, not trash encounters. I don't think this small "nerf" will have any effect on trash encounters.

[Sta]

<div></div>what are we talking about again? dumbfire what? PETS? ohh yea..well the way i see it is that if our pet is affected by aoe why not dumbfire pets too. it only make sense to me.

[Za]

<blockquote><hr>Reposado wrote:Wouldn't matter so much if they didn't transfer hate to you.<div></div><hr></blockquote><blockquote><hr>Reposado wrote:Wouldn't matter so much if they didn't transfer hate to you.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Agree!

[Eyes_of_Truth]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Stath wrote:<div></div>what are we talking about again? dumbfire what? PETS? ohh yea..well the way i see it is that if our pet is affected by aoe why not dumbfire pets too. it only make sense to me.<hr></blockquote><p>makes sence that they MUST recive group buffs if they are infact PETS.</p><p>All i know is if they do decide to make them into PETS, and they can get group buffs, im gona make friendly with a Dirge :smileyvery-happy:</p>

[Sir Alex]

<div></div>Last night while i was in poets palace my dogs were getting ripped apart by dajinn AOE's when i would relese them in the fron of the mob when i released them behind the mob no prob,  i remember having to do this when fighting giants in ts in my mid 20's when i got my rats,

[Riversideblues]

barage is a targeted aoelern2play guys, you do nuts dps, and them taking aoe doesnt mean that you dont ever get to use them at all, at least be glad that now it will be easier to call aoe's <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Eyes_of_Truth]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Riversideblues wrote:barage is a targeted aoelern2play guys, you do nuts dps, and them taking aoe doesnt mean that you dont ever get to use them at all, at least be glad that now it will be easier to call aoe's <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Thats how it currently is, and thats ok and acceptable.</p><p>What has happend on test is ANY aoe now hits the Swarm pets. Aka, if a mage mob uses lighting storm (low level aoe that high end mage mobs love to cast for some reason) then your pets poof, even if mob is only a ^^ heroic.</p><p>Now with epics, this is even worse since your pets are garentied to die every 30 seconds. Most epic AOE's are 360 degrees so you cant just put them in the back anymore.</p><p>On live, if u take a little time to possition, you dont have to worry about ripostes/barrage, which is good and reward the summoner for takeing the time to carefully possition your minons, but if the AOE = true for swarm pets rule goes live, this stratagy will be shot to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].</p>

[Za]

<blockquote><hr>Riversideblues wrote:barage is a targeted aoelern2play guys, you do nuts dps, and them taking aoe doesnt mean that you dont ever get to use them at all, at least be glad that now it will be easier to call aoe's <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div><hr></blockquote>sheesh... learn to think."You guys" is exactly the problem. You know nothing about the details, but make broad sweeping statements as if you do.

[majin3110]

<div></div>Dont throw tomatos at me or anything. Do i think losing the dps will suck?.... yes. Do i think its wrong from a logical standpoint to be able to hit Dumbfires with an AoE?.... no. They are summoned pets, just like our main pets. They have HP.. dont dont have hp. They do work like dots in a way considering they have no special attacks, but to me they are just temporary summoned pets and should be hit just as easy as my main pet. i dont want to lose dps on a raid, but then again, i cant disagree with SoE giving them the same properties and weaknesses as my real pets.

[Named]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>majin3110 wrote:<div></div>i cant disagree with SoE giving them the same properties and weaknesses as my real pets.<hr></blockquote>Thats just it. Lockeye is giving them our real pet's weakness with NONE OF THE ADVANTAGES. Please just turn them into regular 1 minute and 30 second dots. They would be so much better.

[majin3110]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Named88 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>majin3110 wrote:<div></div>i cant disagree with SoE giving them the same properties and weaknesses as my real pets.<hr></blockquote>Thats just it. Lockeye is giving them our real pet's weakness with NONE OF THE ADVANTAGES. Please just turn them into regular 1 minute and 30 second dots. They would be so much better.<hr></blockquote>Ya, that would be great, cuz of course they cant give them the advantages of our real pets. Turning them into DoTs would be great, no doubt about that. Just saying i can't complain about our temp pets being vulnerable to AoEs the way that they are set up in the game right now. They are summoned pets hence they get should get bonked just like other pets.

[Eyes_of_Truth]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>majin3110 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Named88 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>majin3110 wrote:<div></div>i cant disagree with SoE giving them the same properties and weaknesses as my real pets.<hr></blockquote>Thats just it. Lockeye is giving them our real pet's weakness with NONE OF THE ADVANTAGES. Please just turn them into regular 1 minute and 30 second dots. They would be so much better.<hr></blockquote>[snip] <font color="#66ff66">They are summoned pets hence they get should get bonked just like other pets [as well as recieve beneficial abilities like other pets] </font><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#ffffff">They are summoned pets hence they get should get bonked just like other pets [ and recieve the same beneficial help as our other pets ]</font></p><p><font color="#ffffff">There u go, i fixed your statment to make it factual and logical. If they have the same limitation, they have the same benefits.</font></p><p><font color="#ffffff">[crazy metaphore time]</font></p><p><font color="#ffffff">If you take a rock and put it out in the sun, it is for the most part not effected (like are dumbfirepets currently are), but if you turn it into an block of ice and set it outside in the sun, it will likely melt (aka, our dumbfire pets taking AOE damage).</font></p><p><font color="#ffffff">Now, ice is cold, unlike most rocks. So, since your rock is now ice, you can freeze it , thus the colder you make it the harder it is to melt. (since they are now able to be weakened or killed, then they are controversly able to be strengthened or defended, thus trading the stability of a "rock" for the )</font></p><p>Message Edited by Eyes_of_Truth on <span class="date_text">01-25-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:40 PM</span></p>

[Named]

<div>I wish that I stopped at the [crazy metaphore time]. ><</div>

[Eirgo]

<div></div>Lol I think we all do Riz :smileywink:

[majin3110]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Eyes_of_Truth wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>majin3110 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Named88 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>majin3110 wrote:<div></div>i cant disagree with SoE giving them the same properties and weaknesses as my real pets.<hr></blockquote>Thats just it. Lockeye is giving them our real pet's weakness with NONE OF THE ADVANTAGES. Please just turn them into regular 1 minute and 30 second dots. They would be so much better.<hr></blockquote>[snip] <font color="#66ff66">They are summoned pets hence they get should get bonked just like other pets [as well as recieve beneficial abilities like other pets] </font><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#ffffff">They are summoned pets hence they get should get bonked just like other pets [ and recieve the same beneficial help as our other pets ]</font></p><p><font color="#ffffff">There u go, i fixed your statment to make it factual and logical. If they have the same limitation, they have the same benefits.</font></p><p><font color="#ffffff">[crazy metaphore time]</font></p><p><font color="#ffffff">If you take a rock and put it out in the sun, it is for the most part not effected (like are dumbfirepets currently are), but if you turn it into an block of ice and set it outside in the sun, it will likely melt (aka, our dumbfire pets taking AOE damage).</font></p><p><font color="#ffffff">Now, ice is cold, unlike most rocks. So, since your rock is now ice, you can freeze it , thus the colder you make it the harder it is to melt. (since they are now able to be weakened or killed, then they are controversly able to be strengthened or defended, thus trading the stability of a "rock" for the )</font></p><p>Message Edited by Eyes_of_Truth on <span class="date_text">01-25-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:40 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>My brain hurts now.</p><p> I know some peoples arguments are that the pets cant recieve buffs like normal pets, but then again.. what buff is going to be able to make a temp pet though enough to take a 5k AoE blast? and you cant give the pets that much hp of course. I dont want to argue. I'm just letting folks know my opinion..</p><p> </p><p>[crazy metaphore time]</p><p>You take a Dog (our dumbfire pets)and put it on the sun, they are burnt to nothingness.. Now you put a rock on the sun its going to be okay. Now, if you throw that rock at a Dog, the dog will yelp and run away, BUT if you throw a Dog at a rock, the rock will not yelp and run away... now, is where the Ice comes in.. You put Ice in a blender and you can make a Snowcone, you put different flavorings on the snowcones and it makes them taste different,, i like Red flavor!. Rocks hate snowcones.... wait, where was i going with this?</p>

[Eirgo]

<div></div><p>FINALLY!!!!!!</p><p>Someone posts a metaphor that has real meaning and explains everything perfectly!!  Well now that this discussion is closed ...... I like blue flavor :smileyhappy:</p>