Question about what happens to a charmed mobs stats

[Viromage]

<DIV>Ok I am in SE and I charm a 47^^^ heroic and send him against a 46^^^ heroic of the same type mob and he gets beat down like he was a wussy weak pet.  My question is what exactly happens to the stats of a charmed mob?  If we use pet buffs will they stick to the charmed mob?  Also as I mentioned in another thread when I charmed it, it replaced my summoned pet so it appears there is no pet stacking allowed (not sure if it was intended or a bug to begin with).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[locke_digital]

All I know is that they scale to the spell-strength, not the pet strength.  If you have an Adept I charm, the pet will have Adept I-ish abilities.  Charm the same pet with an Adept III and it will be far stronger.  Charm the same pet with an Apprentice I and laugh as it dies to greens *grin*<div></div>

[Viromage]

<P>I was using an Adapt 3 version...  Is there anyway to determine the type of mob other than just attacking it and seeing what it does?  Like websites that say this mob is (blank type)..  Think EQ1 had something like that on Ala.</P> <P> </P> <P>Now that you can't pet stack this spell seems pretty useless..</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Greggthegrmreapr]

<DIV>when you charm an ^^^ it gets lowered to a no arrow mob.</DIV>

[Za]

<blockquote><hr>Greggthegrmreapr wrote:<DIV>when you charm an ^^^ it gets lowered to a no arrow mob.</DIV><hr></blockquote>They said this was how it was supposed to work. But I absolutely guarantee you (and will show it in parses next week) that a ^^^ charmed mob does more damage and takes more abuse than a no arrow mob.

[Nosewar]

<DIV>^^^</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, there is a clear difference.  I can charm green ^^^ mobs and they will rock the house on blue no arrow mobs. They will do heavy damage on higher cons than that don't have too wide a level disparity.  But if I charm a no arrow mob, that pet usually gets the tar beat of it.  Down arrow mobs are basically worthless as pets.</DIV>

[Elveira]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Zald wrote:</P> <P>But I absolutely guarantee you (and will show it in parses next week) that a ^^^ charmed mob does more damage and takes more abuse than a no arrow mob.</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Just from personal observation charming ^^^s and then taking on heroic groups, I can also virtually guarantee that they're hitting and taking damage like a ^^^.</P> <P>It is actually a pretty easy one to veryify and I may just try this tonight to see if it bears out. I'll charm a ^^^ spectre in LT (no pet already out), no buffs will be cast and I'll sic him on an equal level ^^^ spectre. If he's converted down he'll get his butt handed to him, if not, it should be close to a wash. I'll let you know what I see.</P> <P> </P>

[Elveira]

<P>Just did my little experiment and they're definitely downgraded. Down to a no-arrow, can't really tell, but they're definitely downgraded.</P> <P>I had no pet out and all of my own buffs off when I charmed a ^^^ 51 spectre. Sent him after his ^^^ 51 buddy and he was pretty much eaten alive.</P> <P> </P>

[May Ham]

<DIV>Same level tripple ups ( ^^^ ) and arrow downs ( any ), will fight at same lvl ( no arrow) when charmed. Charmed mobs will use their special ability attacks (if any) however, which might account for extra damage done. </DIV>

[Nosewar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Elveira wrote:<BR> <P>Just did my little experiment and they're definitely downgraded. Down to a no-arrow, can't really tell, but they're definitely downgraded.</P> <P>I had no pet out and all of my own buffs off when I charmed a ^^^ 51 spectre. Sent him after his ^^^ 51 buddy and he was pretty much eaten alive.</P> <P> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Well of course.  A ^^^ charmed mob is not going to be the same as a ^^^ uncharmed mob.  If so, I would have abused that and PL'd myself from 55 to 60 with ease.  Consider your real pet (fighter) at adept3 standing up against an equal con ^^^ mob.  Without your help it will get mauled.  Same thing. However, it does not get demoted to no arrow status because there is a clear difference between dps output of a charmed ^^^ mob and a no arrow charmed mob of the same type.  I suspect the mit, resists, and hp pools get switched over to our pet tables while the mob is charmed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A better thing to try is to charm a ^^^ mob and order it to attack a no arrow mob of the same level and type.  The ^^^ charmed mob should defeat it quite easily.  I do it all the time in SC.</DIV>

[jeanjuedi]

<DIV>And where in Silent City do you find a no arrow mob of the same type?  I am assuming you charm the ^^^spectres?  I try to stay away from charming ^^^ because of how it breaks at the most inopportune times, but just looted the master version last night, will see if it is as good as I hope it is!  (Of course, it would have been nicer to get it att 55 rather than 60...)</DIV>

[Signal9]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nosewarts wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Elveira wrote:<BR> <P>Just did my little experiment and they're definitely downgraded. Down to a no-arrow, can't really tell, but they're definitely downgraded.</P> <P>I had no pet out and all of my own buffs off when I charmed a ^^^ 51 spectre. Sent him after his ^^^ 51 buddy and he was pretty much eaten alive.</P> <P> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Well of course.  A ^^^ charmed mob is not going to be the same as a ^^^ uncharmed mob.  If so, I would have abused that and PL'd myself from 55 to 60 with ease.  Consider your real pet (fighter) at adept3 standing up against an equal con ^^^ mob.  Without your help it will get mauled.  Same thing. However, it does not get demoted to no arrow status because there is a clear difference between dps output of a charmed ^^^ mob and a no arrow charmed mob of the same type.  I suspect the mit, resists, and hp pools get switched over to our pet tables while the mob is charmed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A better thing to try is to charm a ^^^ mob and order it to attack a no arrow mob of the same level and type.  The ^^^ charmed mob should defeat it quite easily.  I do it all the time in SC.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Nose, with Coercer charm, when we use an arrow-up mob, especially a ^^^, and charm breaks, you can visibly see 1/3 of their HP bar regenerate.  This is their HP reverting from the enmasculated charm level back to their true heroic ^^^ level.</P> <P> </P> <P>Does the same ocur with the Necro charm?  I have a feeling it does.</P> <P> </P> <P>We also see the same when charming ^^ or ^ mobs, although it is much more pronounced on the ^^^ mobs.<BR></P>

[gr8scott]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> jeanjuedi wrote:<BR> <DIV>just looted the master version last night, will see if it is as good as I hope it is! <BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Unfortunately it is not.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The master does not lock charm that much better than adept 3.  It still fails pretty regularly.  No way is it good enough to assume charm will last the duration.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>GS</DIV>

[Za]

<blockquote><hr>jeanjuedi wrote:<DIV>And where in Silent City do you find a no arrow mob of the same type?  I am assuming you charm the ^^^spectres?  I try to stay away from charming ^^^ because of how it breaks at the most inopportune times, but just looted the master version last night, will see if it is as good as I hope it is!  (Of course, it would have been nicer to get it att 55 rather than 60...)</DIV><hr></blockquote>Once the specs in SC turn blue to you, you can hold them pretty consistantly. I usually keep my war pet in def while I have charm going. This way the pet will take agro immediately.BTW, you can do this test by comparing the ^^^ spec mobs with the non arrow spec mobs that spawn with the Commisioner. You can also see the difference if you go to the Sanctorium and charm the different ^, ^^, ^^^ and non arrowed mobs there. The ^^ mobs are the best balance of extra damage and security if you can't handle ^^^ mobs.

[jeanjuedi]

<DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> jeanjuedi wrote:<BR> <DIV>just looted the master version last night, will see if it is as good as I hope it is! <BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __<BR> <DIV>Unfortunately it is not.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The master does not lock charm that much better than adept 3.  It still fails pretty regularly.  No way is it good enough to assume charm will last the duration.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>GS</DIV> <DIV>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not what I wanted to hear <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  But since I really don't charm mobs for xp anymore I guess it won't make that much of a difference <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV></DIV>

[Viromage]

<P>Are you guys still able to have a pet up and a charmed pet?  I see several ref. to that being mentioned however everytime I charm now my pet poofs and if I cancel charm and kill mob no pet window like maybe it is hiding or anything.  I figured that was a bug or something (you know because heavens forbid a Necromancer "Master of the Undead" be able to control more than one undead at a time).</P> <P> </P> <P>Also has anyone parsed a 52 ^^^ heroic charmed fighter pet against a say 52 Adept III fighter pet?  What are the pro's and con's?</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Za]

From last 2 posts..1. At L 60, I can consistently keep green ^^^ mobs charmed for the duration of the charm. With blue mobs I get resistances every 5-10 minutes now.I'd definately say that the DPS increase is well worth the trouble, esp soloing ^^^ or named mobs.2. I've never had any problem keeping pets and charmed mobs up and active at the same time. Barring the odd things with buffs, everything works fine.

[xxArcane]

<P>Yes you can keep your charmed pet and your regular pet up at the same time...</P> <P>I only use this spell to break up heroic encounteres with multiple mobs. Say you have three 1 arrow up mobs. This can be a tough fight even when blue con. But you charm one of them and then use thier own guy against them and it becomes very easy...then just break the charm and kill the last one for the bonus exp....</P> <P>Very good way to level up fast if you are around a lot of undead like in LS or SC.</P>

[Abazagorath]

<DIV>Charming a mob of any con (from ^^^ to triple down) makes them con with the same amount of HP as the same class and level of the mob if it had no arrows at all ("even con").  However, the quality of the spells that it casts is relative to the quality of the charm from what I have read on the enchanter boards (not entirely sure if it works the same way for necromancers, though it seems to be that way).  Personally, I would never recommend charming a ^^ or higher unless you were doing so as a means of crowd control.  Charming one mob out of four or so in the encounter not only offsets the damage taken by you/your group, but also means that mobs in that encounter could potentially kill one of their own.  If you are using charmed pets as a means of boosting your DPS, then I recommend charming an even con or ^ melee-type mob (melee classes proc Consumption more than spectres and other casters), as they will still con the same level, cast the same regardless of what the mob was pre-charm, and will be easier to deal with once the charm is broken.</DIV>