Lich proc nerfed on test

[Lodor]

<DIV>Test notes 16b state the proc effect from lich was lowered.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do not know how much but im not really surprised by the change less it is a big downgrade since with just lich proc we could outdo near every class in dps.</DIV>

[XBr]

Also our AOE is nerfed to be max 8 targets: <font color="66FF00">- All area-of-effect spells that do not target a specific encounter now affect a maximum of 8 targets. <b>Necromancer changes:</b> - Chains of Torment now guarantees that fear will land when the root breaks, but at a decreased duration. - Clinging Darkness now triggers an additional snare when the first one breaks, and it costs less power. - The proc damage caused by Lich was reduced. </font> <div></div>

[QQ-Fatman]

<DIV>I used my low int character on test and see the new proc damage = 112 (adept3.) I also see ice comet adept3 max dmg 3490 (my level 60 wizard on live server has it 4900 with 360 int, it's 40% difference in damage.) So 112 x 1.4 = 156 <- this should be the new lich proc damage.</DIV>

[Sosum]

what bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] - dont do this sony i hate you enough already. <div></div>

[QQ-Fatman]

Dooming darkness' snare is now 56% only (adept3,) will apply a 24sec snare when it breaks. Eternal binding now 100% proc fear, but only lasts for 5sec and the snare effect is only 28% (adept3.) I got these numbers on test just now by using eq2idb.

[Mephli]

Well if they are going to lower the damage of lich :smileymad:, maybe they should consider lowering the life drain portion of it.

[Nibbl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> QQFatman wrote:<BR> <DIV>I used my low int character on test and see the new proc damage = 112 (adept3.) I also see ice comet adept3 max dmg 3490 (my level 60 wizard on live server has it 4900 with 360 int, it's 40% difference in damage.) So 112 x 1.4 = 156 <- this should be the new lich proc damage.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>So about half as much then?  Think max is 296 with adept III right now.

[schrammy]

<DIV>the master version gives 382 dmg on max int</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] it will suck when that dmg is cut in half</DIV>

[StueyMonst]

<DIV>Lich proc cut in half....what a joke!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This will have a HUGE impact on our DPS (along with lowering the max targets on true AOE's).  To be honest, every patch since the combat revamp, I have been looking for a Lich nerf to be announced, but this is a little too much.  At least reduce the health cost if it's doing less damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It does make me wonder if they have ever walked a mile in our shoes, or they just listen to people moaning, when deciding on what changes to make.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dhark</DIV> <DIV>Troll Necro 56 Sage 60</DIV> <DIV>Runnyeye</DIV>

[Nosewar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> XBrit wrote:<BR>Also our AOE is nerfed to be max 8 targets:<BR><BR><FONT color=#66ff00>- All area-of-effect spells that do not target a specific encounter now affect a maximum of 8 targets.<BR><BR><B>Necromancer changes:</B><BR>- Chains of Torment now guarantees that fear will land when the root breaks, but at a decreased duration.<BR>- Clinging Darkness now triggers an additional snare when the first one breaks, and it costs less power.<BR>- The proc damage caused by Lich was reduced.<BR><BR></FONT><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Just give me back fear-kiting and I shall be happy.

[Eesti]

this nerf to Lich is beyond anything i could have imagined, the ghastly stench nerf in the combat revamp is nothing compared to this. Lich is our most important spell besides our pet, reducing its damage by 50% will have a huge impact on our dps, i dont have any numbers for this yet but i guess we will lose like 20% in total dps ? Together with the AoE nerf we will be close to useless. This game looks less appealing for every LU that gets released <span>:smileysad:</span> <div></div>

[Handleba]

I just signed on to test to see how much it was nerfed and my level 50 there had 257 int and the proc was 149.  What complete crap. <div></div>

[Aen]

<P>Hm.. without Lich we are pretty much nothing at 50+, and lovering the damage, makin it deal if correct, half the damage is a big drop in DPS, i dont see the logic to change it at all, it just pisses necros of really really bad.</P> <P>For once, we can do damage without focusing on damage over time, wich means we are more welcome in groups, since from my own experience most groups just stare blind on the direct damage, going nuts when a wizzy hits max damage with an ice comet and just laugh watching the necro do his 80-120 DoTs.</P> <P>Sure, we still have Siphon life that can hit pretty hard from around 800-900 damage without Lich, but othervise its back to the 73-89, 34-56 DoTs, Lich makes a big difference to these spells, still makin em a low DoT but with a little extra punch, so 50% reduction will make a difference, a pretty big one.</P> <P>Iwe grinded through 50 levels pretty much solo since noone wants to group with necros due to their low damage and "annoying" pets, i love teaming and grouping, but it has only been with those that know me IRL or friends iwe come across on my journeys, after the expansion my necro felt more "alive" than ever before, we could deal direct damage and our pets actually has some decent caster/tank/scout-traits.</P> <P> </P> <P>Dont be a fool and nerf this spell, i dont want to end up alone without groups again just because if this.<BR>And i know im not speaking for myself, i know many necros feel the same, we had issues from the start, wich made necros a "rare" class, something you dont see that often.</P> <P>Most of it was pretty much solved when SoE launched the expansion, and now today i see necros a bit here and there, sparkling with life and joy since we for once are not that "gimped" broken mageclass anymore.</P> <P>please dont nerf us more.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <DIV>Edited: spellcheck.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Aenos on <span class=date_text>11-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:12 AM</span>

[KBern]

<DIV>I can live with the lowering of the damage if they also lower the damage done to us by half.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One change without the other is a pathetic nerf.</DIV>

[Leawyn]

This is a bit perturbing. I would like to see the reasoning behind such a total nerf of a spell. If you wanted to put us more in line with our dps (after all, we ARE supposed to be teir 2 dps, below wizard/warlock), then why kill one of our best dps spells instead of increasing the wizards/warlocks. Oh well, just another change to ride. I still think our dps will be sufficient without lich. Yes it adds a nice punch to all our spells, especially our ae's, but it won't be the end of the world. <div></div>

[Badd Boy]

Part that really irritates me is they boosted Wizards and Warlocks already high damage and then took ours down. Why are people determined to see Necros at the bottom of the DPS chain? <div></div>

[Danter]

<P>This sucks, SOE please rethink this.</P> <P>Every single class got upgrades except us, we got nerfed.</P> <P>When you move everyone else up and us down, you will cripple us.</P>

[Brutu]

<P>If this change goes live it will sucks big time...</P> <P>Necro dmg is high - but is high only if:</P> <P>1) Our pet stays alive (AOE comes or pet chooses to use "big" ability at start of combat - and pooof 30%-40%+ dmg down) - and there is pretty much NOTHING we can do about this!</P> <P>2) Dumbfire pets stays alive (they should be immune to AOE but riposte kills them - and pooof 15% dmg down) - in lot of cases it is impossible to properly position these.</P> <P>3) Fight is long enough for all our dots to do full dmg.</P> <P>Ok - so our dmg is conditioned by abovesaid. Our direct dmg is without Lich pathetic with exclusion of Siphon Life - which is on 9sec recast (2sec cast). If we will lost 50% of Lich dmg then our overall dmg will go down around 15-20%. Because we do not have any utility (well except for week debuff and ress) who will need us anymore??</P>

[KBern]

<P>The sky is not falling.</P> <P>This does suck, but we will still have awesome DPS, awesome soloability, and great utility to bring to groups in many situations.</P> <P>We can still help with crowd control, many people love our hearts (not sure why lol), our FD + rez combo can save groups tons of time in case of a wipe, we can back up spot heal when needed, etc.</P> <P>This is a huge change, and will hurt us some on DPS, but we will still be uber overall.</P>

[Aen]

<P>Heh, dont forget that there already is a drawback for using lich, as it converts life for power you hardly regenerate life at all when using it ( i know, food.. but its expensive <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ), or totally drains you instead (you cant die but stop at 1 HP) when you for some reason stands still in combat, this could result in confusing healers or tanks and mess things up. </P> <P>So it isnt just a win/win spell, we have to sacrifice life for maintaining the spell and keep it under control so it doesnt mess you or your groupfriends up, its not like a ..-buff up, now i can Pwn monsters/PvP-freaks/neighbours all day-spell, you have to have full control of it.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Oh well, but as the previous posters said.. sort of, we just have to adapt to it, it isnt the end of the world and i doubt SoE would listen to our plea.</P>

[El Chupacabr]

<P>I can proc out lich about 21 times a minute (going full force using all tricks to proc it) on average, used a 71 second fight to get the proc rate number... with the nerf we're looking at 3129 damage per minute.</P> <P>3,129 damage per minute for the uber level 50 spell.</P> <P>1,785 healed per minute</P> <P>900 self damage</P> <P>400 power restored per minute</P> <P>So:</P> <P>885 total heal per minute</P> <P>Additional 52 DPS</P> <P>6.7 power regenerated per second</P> <P>Ergo:</P> <P>Lich nerf=a really horrible idea.</P> <P>Also, why the heck is our root changing into a tether clone?  Lich is nerfed on one hand to (I assume) combat the ability to chain root and kill stuff with lich procs but now we can just nuke like mad then reroot once the fear kicks in and repeat?</P> <P>So, with that huge damage nerf to the necro's, are we finally getting the rending line changed to also proc and be player targetable?  Are we finally getting a damageshield?  How about our stun getting fixed?  What about fixing the warlock pets buffs?</P> <P>Put the brakes on guys and think about these changes a bit and look at the big picture (as you're so fond of saying).  Necro's only do direct damage and that lich spell was in line with all the other mage 50 spells, now it does 25 more DPS than swarm of bats.</P>

[Tzen]

Yeah, I think we saw this coming in one form or another.  Too many folks crying because we are outdamaging them.  So for our great performance we get punished.  :smileysad:

[MrGrimm9]

<DIV>Wow, man this is a huge huge hit.  Before lich was the only way to keep up with a conj dps.  Now they will blow us out of the water.  And they still have two spells that are really really unbalanced and bugged (which I won't mention because my conj buddies will get [Removed for Content]).  The even if soe thinks that lich did too much damage before we couldnt go all out because we would just get agro.  It is silly to nerf it this much, that was one of our main sources of dps.  And lich only really shined in long fights, which is what necros are supposed to be, sustained dps.  Even with lich the way it is now, in a short fight, a conj, wiz or warlock will beat us in dps.  But in a long fight we would win.  I guess soe just wants us to be less dps than wiz/war and conj in every situation.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, they fix the warlock and wizard dumbfire pets to scale up to level 60 but they don't change our Servile Servant to scale with our level, it is still level 52 btw...  Seems like in fixing the dumbfire pets, they forgot ours.  </DIV><p>Message Edited by MrGrimm999 on <span class=date_text>11-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:57 AM</span>

[DantesInfer]

<P>You know, I haven't been impressed with the EQ2 version of the necromancer much <U>at all</U>. :smileymad: Seeing this nerf, a 50% reduction in lich proc, is just another reason for me to <STRONG>NOT</STRONG> want to keep playing this class. People kept telling me that lich is one of our class defining spells if not THE defining spell for our class. Now it's been severly beaten and I'm not liking the look of things.</P> <P>SOE, you need to provide a reason for something that is as drastic as this.</P> <P>And yes, take advice from other necros, if you're going to reduce the proc damage, decrease the life exchange rate or add something else beneficial to the spell.</P>

[slyfer]

<DIV>This really F'in Sucks. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thats all I have to say.  It will go live because I have never seen something on test get reversed.  We were a horrible class for 9 months then our changes hit and it was great.   I just have a feeling they are pushing us back to where we were.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Tzen]

<DIV>What's the term I'm looking for here....  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>oh yes... indian givers!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(no.. not trying to offend, just making a point)</DIV>

[Kski93]

<P>I seriously can't believe they are actually going to do this. We put up with one of the most broken classes(along with enchanters) since the game came out. There were hardly any necros out there, but still some of us clung to the hope that maybe when combat changes took place we would once again have a purpose in a group. When that day finally comes all the necros rejoice because they actually made us good. Now they want to take our most class defining spell and nerf it. *Applaud* Thanks sony great job. Not only do they not give us a reasoning behind it, but we dont even get any added utility to make up for it. I could have dealt with the fact that they nerfed lich if they had fixed other things. Even if they just fixed our freaking stun and made it useful 2 second cast? maybe add another line to do something else besides just stun?</P> <P>Lets go over what affect this will have. Necromancers are as of right now a DPS class. We have VERY little utility in a group situations(our res, and couple debuffs, and our gimped stun). So by lowering our DPS you are makeing use second rate dps casters. So when the choice comes down to a warlock or a necro we will get tossed aside just like we use to.</P>

[keikomon]

<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#66ff00 size=3>Wow..</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#66ff00 size=3>This is a sad..sad...day if this patch goes live....I mean where do our class fits in raid situation? Our group buff is a joke. We got no real debuff, compared to other classes..And now they are taking away our dps? Is our new roll in raids, is to sit back and feed hearts to raid members? And rez people when they die? We have no root, stuns, stifle, and/or pacify that can effect epic mobs....I mean, c'mon where do Necro fit in raid situations if this goes live? </FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#66ff00 size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#66ff00 size=3>Frustrated Necro.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#66ff00 size=3>Kikko</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#66ff00 size=3>Kithicor</FONT></P>

[Windego]

<P>Wow, what really rubs me the wrong way is Gallenite (hey maybe you could take a break from your FoH message board love fest and address the game your a producer of, people actually liked to see the producer comment on a variety of issues like you were in March and April) and Moorguard in the days at the end of DoF/revamp beta and post revamp saying they have extensive parses and classes were where they wanted them.  Here we are almost two months later and look at this!  Ridiculous.  LU 16 patch notes on a whole just illustrate to me they have no sense of direction what so ever in where they want classes, STILL.  I said it before and I'll say it again.  As long as the top tier mage DPS classes (Warlock/Wiz) enjoy a plethora of utility above ours, there is no justification in us being a Tier2 DPS class.</P> <P>To halve the damage on our class defining spell is the wrong way to go without addressing other issues (lower utility compared to Warlock/Wiz/Conj in my mind)  or equalling out this nerf by providing us a bonus in other areas.  Why not make our lifetaps heal for the damage they hit for?  Why not make the heal component of lich equal to the proc damage it dishes out now that it has been reduced.  Let consumption heal for the damage amount it hits for.  Why not raise Clawing of the Soul to 25% chance to proc and the portion healed is the same as the damage?  Lower cast time on our stun?  Lower reuse time on Siphon Life?  There are ton's of options.</P> <P>Happy Birthday EQ2 and Necros - We are nerfing the damage on your class defining spell without addressing other issues or putting into place other ideas that could compensate for it's loss.  Here is your cake, in your face.</P>

[Tanes]

<P>I may cancel my account over this. I did once before revamp.. we were totaly gimped before revamp and no one would group with us.. now we are finally in a state where people want us in a group and this.. well guess what I'll leave again for the same reasons as before..</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[slyfer]

<P>Well since our class defining spell is getting nerfed.  I hope that you are planning in decreasing the damage of Devastation and Ice Comet too since they are the Warlock and Wizard class defining spells.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by slyfer on <span class=date_text>11-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:54 PM</span>

[MrGrimm9]

<DIV>Conj could keep up with our damage if not more because of BP and Elemental Vestment.  Now they will definately do more dps on group AND single mobs.  Well hrm ok at least we can stifle, oh wait, we can't stifle but they have a 12 second stifle/pacify.  Well our stun lasts longer than theirs, no, wait, it lasts the same amount of time and theirs does damage as well.  Well hrm, at least we can snare kite still, no hrm, we can't kite because our snare breaks with damage.  Oh yea that's right, conj's snare does not break with damage so they can still snare kite.  Hrm... thinking... thinking... ahha we can fear and FD and heal other people and lifetap.  Well FDs recast is 15 minutes and they get stoneskin, fear is useless on raids and really doesnt help in a group situation, healing others kills us very very quickly and isnt that great.  It seemed before the one thing we had up on conj was we could do more damage on single mobs pretty consistantly because of lich, now they are taking that away.  They can snare kite, stifle/pacify and their stuns do damage.  We can lifetap? But lich and healing others and our pets takes a lot of that advantage away.  Consumption's 2 minutes recast time is a joke to really be useful,  FD is an emergency spell.  Lich was the one thing that we could say hah! This is the one thing we have and it is great.  If you look at all our spells they really aren't a lot of damage, but with lich it put us over the top.  Halfing its damage is going to have a huge effect, much more than the devs realize at this point because a lot of our spells have a short casting time and lich procs quite a bit because of that.  Besides our pet it is one of our main sources of dps.  This is going to go live and it is going to hurt.</DIV>

[Kniives]

Now that theses changes are out in the open, can we have someone official come to this thread and defend their idea behind this HUGE nerf ?  This is not a troll or anything,  I want to understand why such action as been taken on the Necro class.  Especially with many other spell in our book that need to be fixed.For once since DoF, I felt like I was something special as a necro.  I'm afraid that these "nerfs" are just a tad bit too much !<div></div>

[jeanjuedi]

<P>This is too sad, I was always fine with being gimped in terms of short term damage, I always knew that we really shined in long fights as sustained dps.  I was so excited to play my class again after the revamp, even after some the changes to our group buffs.  I can't really add much more than what has already been stated, but cmon did lich really make us overpowered?  In short fights that was our main dps...if we had a chance to get a spell off on group mobs that is.  Lets see, int buffs no longer stack, aoe's only affect 8 mobs (out of encounter), dooming darkness nerfed (whatever, 91% at ad3 was just asking to be nerfed), pets were at ad3 lvl even at ap1 (again, no big deal since I get ad3 immediately anyways), swarm pets not scaling properly (servile soul is worthless, even at ad3), our devour health was nerfed as well as sacrificial hearts (I can't believe people still ask for this...).   I know that even posting is a waste of time since lich will be nerfed no matter how much it is bemoaned.</P> <P> </P> <P>I will add though, that I am not here just to rant or whine, I will not be cancelling my account, as I have played through too many changes to get completely upset over this.  I will adapt to the changes, but that does not mean I agree [Removed for Content] them. </P><p>Message Edited by jeanjuedi on <span class=date_text>11-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:37 AM</span>

[Allowen]

<P>I will not get to much frustrated yet until I see the LU 16 working, maybe they will surely nerf lich but will boost some of our spells like upgrade our pet s dps a bit more and reduce the recasting time of our lifetabs and Ae spells )</P> <P>Btw what that change on darkness means? Some thing like when darkness fades it cast another snare ?what what?</P> <P>I hope this new snare for us will be similar to as good as it is the new lv 55 "ancient" conjuror spell, the snare last liek 48 secs and no damage can break it, but when it fades the conjuror needs to wait 12 secs or so to recast it, still much mroe uses then our darkness line of spell.</P> <P>Would be cool to agro kite mobs again, solo some nameds using our possible  new bad [Removed for Content] snare cause that wil be the only way to kite since dolls will get interrupt on casting when we move and still long time to cast (total useless the slow from +agil dolls).</P> <P> </P> <P>Allowen</P> <P>60 necro</P> <P>Mistmoore server</P>

[Sir Alex]

This is bull, i have played many games over the years and Devs have always been on the boards when people have had concerns about changes to game play. dose anyone at sony even play a necromancer or have any real clue what out class even dose anymore or do they just make blind changes due to other peoples whinning. I would like one of the Devs to come here and explain to us why this spell needs to be reduced considering we were to be in line with everyone else after combat revamp. why is it when you out damage a warlock or wizard all of a suden there is a cry for nerf its like the assassin that posted on out boards cring about how we were out damaging him and wanted us to be more inline with there class. this has got to stop

[LadyVader]

Pathetic, shame on you SOE!  You're pushing it now.  Guess I'll have to become a full time Interior Designer and stick to the Housing threads.  :smileysad:

[Scyros]

<P>I have a 57 necro and I'll admit when DoF came out at lvl 50-54 the dmg on lich was a bit high.  But now at lvl 57 320 proc is nothing.  I have grouped with several Conj of the same or lower lvl doing as much dmg as I do.  And in some cases more.  Add to this the fact that your tank pet's mititagtion is clearly not scaling with his lvl, and the fact that from 50 to 57 get don't get any real increase in dmg and we can easily see that at 60 we might as well hang it up.  I mean my parser shows lich as being well over 50-60% of my total dmg.  So this could be as bad as a 30% reduction in my DPS.  IMO they should have never removed dmg scaling with lvl.  If they hadn't this would be an easy fix.  At 50 it procs 150ish and scales up to 350ish at lvl 60.  But no, scaling dmg obviously was too complicated for someone at SoE.  The combat update did make the class better is many ways, but it also made it worse in many others.  </P> <P>I'm not going to jump on the "i quit" band wagon just yet.  But that time is drawing near.  I will at least see how bad this change is and give it some time.  Maybe they will fix some of the many broken aspect of our class like they are doing for everyone else in this update.  It's doubtful I know.  </P>

[MrGrimm9]

<DIV>btw if you want a dev to actually respond to a thread, dont ever ever ASK them to come and defend a position that developers make, that is a sure fire way to not get a response ever.</DIV>

[Leawyn]

<P>Ok, i think the lich nerf sucks. Let me start by saying that.</P> <P>But BOO ON YOU all who are whining that we have no utility. Maybe you don't know how to play the class to its full capability. But I have been perfectly capable of being the only healer in a full group killing adequately conning mobs. I have saved a raid by landing that much needed heal on the MT before he died. I have saved a raid by being able to rez up that down wizard to get that one last nuke in. I can duo with pretty much any class, especially tanks. And i duo well.</P> <P>Ok, cry all you want about Lich. Maybe just maybe they'll realign it again. But I don't ever want to hear how we are not utility. We can heal, we can rez, we can FD, we can stun (its not the best, but in a pinch it helps), we can debuff, we can crowd control (using pet, charm, root, fear etc), we have some really nice buffs/dps spells off of our Soul spells, and all the while we can be dpsing as well. And not to mention, we RARELY run out of power. Yeah, we aren't the best at any of these things, but we can do them ALL! How many people can claim that?</P> <P>Necro's are utility. And I am tired of you all making us out not to be. Live up to your potential and you can show these people that we are not only good dps, but an excellent back up healer, rezzer, and can FD when all hell breaks loose.</P>

[Hunta]

This saddens me. Specially when I see so many of my friends leaving the game because of thier class is broken, they now come and nerf ours after fixing it. This will only drive more people away.

[KBern]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Leawyn wrote:<BR> <P>Ok, i think the lich nerf sucks. Let me start by saying that.</P> <P>But BOO ON YOU all who are whining that we have no utility. Maybe you don't know how to play the class to its full capability. But I have been perfectly capable of being the only healer in a full group killing adequately conning mobs. I have saved a raid by landing that much needed heal on the MT before he died. I have saved a raid by being able to rez up that down wizard to get that one last nuke in. I can duo with pretty much any class, especially tanks. And i duo well.</P> <P>Ok, cry all you want about Lich. Maybe just maybe they'll realign it again. But I don't ever want to hear how we are not utility. We can heal, we can rez, we can FD, we can stun (its not the best, but in a pinch it helps), we can debuff, we can crowd control (using pet, charm, root, fear etc), we have some really nice buffs/dps spells off of our Soul spells, and all the while we can be dpsing as well. And not to mention, we RARELY run out of power. Yeah, we aren't the best at any of these things, but we can do them ALL! How many people can claim that?</P> <P>Necro's are utility. And I am tired of you all making us out not to be. Live up to your potential and you can show these people that we are not only good dps, but an excellent back up healer, rezzer, and can FD when all hell breaks loose.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I agree, we are utility.</P> <P>Nerfs of other classes should not be considered as I see some saying about the sorcerers.</P> <P>This hurts our DPS and only DPS.  We still have great utility.<BR></P>

[keikomon]

<P><FONT color=#66ff00>Going to have to disagree with u Leawyn..</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Yes, we do have some utlities if we are in single group or duoing..What im talking about is raiding..What can we actually bring to the table duing raidng? Healing? C'mon. Our 700+ healing is hardly a heal. We suppose to bring DPS to the raid. Crowd control? How long do u think we can Tank an epic mob? Can't charm an epic, and we certainly can't fear, chain or stun an epic...Seriously, what do we bring into a raid?.</FONT></P> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Kikko</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Kithicor</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Necro</FONT></DIV>

[Nosewar]

GQLLFM to all you whiners. Less necros the better anyway, too many of us as it is.

[Fierce Ra]

I really don't agree with the nerf.  I could possible be fine with a 10% nerf to Lich, but 50% is just way too much.  Keep in mind that Lich also heals us for 74 hp's on every proc.  Is that getting nerfed as well?  It takes a lot of health to keep Lich up and in most cases it's our #1 dps in short battles which is about 90% of the gameplay where most encounters last less than 30 seconds.  This will in turn put us in the tier 3 category even with the assassin pet.  If you don't believe me then parse tier1-3 dps'ers and see for yourself.  For the people that cried nerf to necros, shame on you, all this will do is hurt your groups DPS if you group with a necro.  If this nerf goes live the way it is necros would have taken one step forward in the right direction, but two steps back in the wrong direction.  At least fix some of the things you all have promised you said you were going to fix, like our stun, since we are supposed to have the longest stun.  Oh well rant off. 

[Named]

<DIV>The lich nerf will drop us down about 15% of our current dps. It is a nerf, and it does suck, but it is not the end of the world. I know that I will still be in the top 5 for dps for EVERY SINGLE FIGHT when it comes to raiding. I will still be able to throw down 500 - 600 dps over a few minutes. I will still have burst dps. I will still have dots. I will still have in combat, huge range rezes. I will still have modrods, which will now be very convenient ( you can click them from your inventory ). I will still regen 70+ mana per tick, self buffed. I will still have 100% feign death. I will still be a valued player in both raid and group settings.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Za]

<blockquote><hr>keikomon wrote: <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Going to have to disagree with u Leawyn..</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Yes, we do have some utlities if we are in single group or duoing..What im talking about is raiding..What can we actually bring to the table duing raidng? Healing? C'mon. Our 700+ healing is hardly a heal. We suppose to bring DPS to the raid. Crowd control? How long do u think we can Tank an epic mob? Can't charm an epic, and we certainly can't fear, chain or stun an epic...Seriously, what do we bring into a raid?.</FONT></P> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Kikko</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Kithicor</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Necro</FONT></DIV><hr></blockquote>We STILL bring dps! Jesus some of you people suck. You blow this completely out of proportion and then wonder why no one listens to you!We STILL do great dps, 50% of 300-400 (and thats max int and Adept III Master I) isn't the same as 50% of a 3000-4000 damage nuke. We're loosing roughly 100-150 damage per cast, Sorry we do a hell of alot more damage than that! My scout pet sneezes for more damage than that, so to say this is a cipling change means you're either completely clueless of how to play a necro, completely over exagerating for dramatic effect, or just plain power mad and irrational. I don't think any of you are clueless, it must be that the tiaras are on too tight.We have WAY more utility than many classes, sorry if all you see in the game is raids... that's a personal problem.Every class has its niche someplace. Necro's are at the very least a good long duration damage class. Sure I'd like to see dumbfires not take riposte damage, but fixing that bug has nothing to do with tweaking this spell.

[XBr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Named88 wrote:<BR> <DIV>The lich nerf will drop us down about 15% of our current dps. It is a nerf, and it does suck, but it is not the end of the world. I know that I will still be in the top 5 for dps for EVERY SINGLE FIGHT when it comes to raiding. I will still be able to throw down 500 - 600 dps over a few minutes. I will still have burst dps. I will still have dots. I will still have in combat, huge range rezes. I will still have modrods, which will now be very convenient ( you can click them from your inventory ). I will still regen 70+ mana per tick, self buffed. I will still have 100% feign death. I will still be a valued player in both raid and group settings.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yup, totally agree. This was a reasonable balance adjustment.</P> <P>My estimate (see other thread) is that the nerf is only around 12% on total dps for short fights. For long fights, ... hmm i'll post something in a sec<BR></P>

[Za]

<blockquote><hr>keikomon wrote: <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Going to have to disagree with u Leawyn..</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Yes, we do have some utlities if we are in single group or duoing..What im talking about is raiding..What can we actually bring to the table duing raidng? Healing? C'mon. Our 700+ healing is hardly a heal. We suppose to bring DPS to the raid. Crowd control? How long do u think we can Tank an epic mob? Can't charm an epic, and we certainly can't fear, chain or stun an epic...Seriously, what do we bring into a raid?.</FONT></P> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Kikko</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Kithicor</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Necro</FONT></DIV><hr></blockquote>Personally on a raid, I bring my attention to the leaders, ability and willingness to work with a team, and overall cheery disposition and pacience. I have a 50+ Necro and Inquisitor. In either case, the class means alot less than the person playing the classes ability to participate, pay attention, and play his/her part. Overall this is a trivial change to the class on the whole.

[Seregfe]

So ... they nerf lich? Why not removing necro? No, they can't go an other way then 0 or 1 ... cutting lich by 50% dmg ist just what they allways do.. SOE gimped warlock ... now wizzards are, in any way, better then warlocks. Now they gimped lich ... and no ... this WILL GO LIVE, for sure ... it's a nerf ..that's why. As i wrote before .. DIE SOE SCUM ...  D I E !!! I spitt on your graves SOE!

[XBr]

<P>OK here are a couple of longer fights with various epics. I wasn't parsing the dumbfires, so total dps is including the pet but excluding dumbfires. (Some of the dps numbers come out very high because other raid members were debuffing, btw).</P> <P>Temple defender, 5 min fight, assassin pet, 211 dps of which Lich was 47, so halving Lich is about an 11% nerf.</P> <P>Tremblar second AOE wave, 1 min fight, offensive tank pet, 822 dps excluding the Illusionist's dynamism. Lich was 158 dps, so halving Lich is about a 10% nerf.   </P> <P>Repulser Sentinel, 1 min fight, assassin pet, 664 dps of which Lich was 159 dps, so halving Lich is about a 12% nerf.</P> <P>Overall, 10-12% seems lke a pretty consistent estimate of the nerf, excluding dumbfires.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by XBrit on <span class=date_text>11-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:34 PM</span>

[legaleagle]

<P>Wow.. a lot of grumbling over the loss of about 75dps (I get 75dps by averaging a 300 damage lich proc every 4 seconds over the course of a battle).  Remember, the assassin pet here:</P> <P> <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=30&message.id=13149" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=30&message.id=13149</A></P> <P>was doing 200dps against an epic mob.  Throw in the rest of our spells (lifetap + 150 lich is still a nice 1000-1100 damage spell in a 6 second timeframe or about 175dps), the dogs which can add another 100 dps, and a dot or two with lich proc on each (guessing another 100dps on the conservative side for both - including the lich proc), and our total dps is reduced by a relatively small amount.   </P> <P>Adding up the numbers, I'm estimating our old dps to be (conservatively) 675dps.  Dropping us down to 600dps is not going to kill us or make us useless.  I knew that the lich proc was too powerful the day they gave it to us and have been expecting this.   It does stink though. </P> <P>(by the way, if you disagree with my numbers, I'm just guesstimating while at work.  Post a parse of an entire battle - solo enounter, group encounter, heroic, epic - to get the true dps loss) </P> <P> </P>

[legaleagle]

<DIV>-nt-</DIV><p>Message Edited by legaleagle97 on <span class=date_text>11-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:42 PM</span>

[armus5]

<P>They've been getting too many complaints from wiz's and warlocks and there are more of them than necros. This nerf is total crap. SOE is bowing to the will of petty whiners. And I do agree with a statement said on here by someone, about lvl50 we have no real dps upgrades. Death rot only improves slightly, the AOE improves about 200 per hit - that's the nicest one. But we don't have a major dps boost beyond 50. Even the lvl58 pet buff, consumption, doesn't last long enough to do any real good. You hit your max at 50 and its all down hill from there.</P> <P>Prepare for the scrap yard again boys. And to think some people were thinking of playing their mothballed necros again. Once I hit 60, I'm back to working my warlock. To hell with them</P> <P>Armus, 58 necro on Innothule</P>

[cfteagu]

<P>When I ding'd 50 and started using Lich, I felt like a DPS class again.  I could actually *kill* things by burning them down.  Granted, we are talking about down arrow mobs, but I could do it.</P> <P>Lich was the best spell necros get.  Its pretty much a class defining spell.  A lot of our other spells are not that impressive (ie: they stink) Why change the best spell we get?</P> <P>I was finding EQ fun again with lich.  If they nerf it, well, I guess I will see if EQ is fun</P>

[Za]

<blockquote><hr>cfteague2 wrote:<P>When I ding'd 50 and started using Lich, I felt like a DPS class again.  I could actually *kill* things by burning them down.  Granted, we are talking about down arrow mobs, but I could do it.</P> <P>Lich was the best spell necros get.  Its pretty much a class defining spell.  A lot of our other spells are not that impressive (ie: they stink) Why change the best spell we get?</P> <P>I was finding EQ fun again with lich.  If they nerf it, well, I guess I will see if EQ is fun</P><hr></blockquote>See more crap like this. Our pets can FART and kill down arrow mobs! I think fun to you is whining on forumn boards about how evil "the man" is! It does NOT help when people over exagerate about how helpless and useless necros are. It just makes the whole class sound like a bunch of sorry loosers.If you had to use lich to take out down arrow mobs, then you got serious issues that go FAR beyond lich! We're a PET class, the majority of our DPS does and SHOULD come from our pets. Remember, during LU13 our dumbfire pets got upgraded and didn't get nerfed like a few other classes did because we were supposed to have the best pets! Lich is STILL a good spell. If it had been released post LU 13 as +150 damage per spell, you'd have had no problem with it!<p>Message Edited by Zald on <span class=date_text>11-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:22 PM</span>

[quamdar]

to the person that said this wasn't like nerfing a 4k nuke by 50% i probably cast my lich atleast 20 times in 45 seconds (one proc every 2.25 seconds very possible even with a few resists because of most spells have1 or 2 second cast times) which is 6360 (318 per spell) damage so reducing that by 50% and lich by 50% are probably around the same if not even worst by reducing lich since i don't know of many wizards who average 6360 per icecomet including resists.  this is just obscene when you sit down and look at the numbers, think of the whining from wizards if ice comet was reduced by 50% and this is an even bigger cut for us since DPS wise lich is probably greater than ice comet.  i expected a cut but seriously 50% you have got to be kidding me, please tell me this is some kind of joke or oversight or something. <div></div>

[zenmo]

Dear lord, why must I continue in path up the necromancer line.

[XBr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> quamdar wrote:<BR>to the person that said this wasn't like nerfing a 4k nuke by 50% i probably cast my lich atleast 20 times in 45 seconds (one proc every 2.25 seconds very possible even with a few resists because of most spells have1 or 2 second cast times) which is 6360 (318 per spell) damage so reducing that by 50% and lich by 50% are probably around the same if not even worst by reducing lich since i don't know of many wizards who average 6360 per icecomet including resists.  this is just obscene when you sit down and look at the numbers, think of the whining from wizards if ice comet was reduced by 50% and this is an even bigger cut for us since DPS wise lich is probably greater than ice comet.  i expected a cut but seriously 50% you have got to be kidding me, please tell me this is some kind of joke or oversight or something.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Please produce a parse which backs up your statements. I think you are overestimating bigtime.<BR>

[Nosewar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zald wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> cfteague2 wrote:<BR> <P>When I ding'd 50 and started using Lich, I felt like a DPS class again.  I could actually *kill* things by burning them down.  Granted, we are talking about down arrow mobs, but I could do it.</P> <P>Lich was the best spell necros get.  Its pretty much a class defining spell.  A lot of our other spells are not that impressive (ie: they stink) Why change the best spell we get?</P> <P>I was finding EQ fun again with lich.  If they nerf it, well, I guess I will see if EQ is fun</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>See more crap like this. Our pets can FART and kill down arrow mobs! I think fun to you is whining on forumn boards about how evil "the man" is! It does NOT help when people over exagerate about how helpless and useless necros are. It just makes the whole class sound like a bunch of sorry loosers.<BR><BR>If you had to use lich to take out down arrow mobs, then you got serious issues that go FAR beyond lich! We're a PET class, the majority of our DPS does and SHOULD come from our pets. Remember, during LU13 our dumbfire pets got upgraded and didn't get nerfed like a few other classes did because we were supposed to have the best pets! <BR><BR>Lich is STILL a good spell. If it had been released post LU 13 as +150 damage per spell, you'd have had no problem with it! <P>Message Edited by Zald on <SPAN class=date_text>11-04-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:22 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Hehe...and remember in EQ1 where necros were straight up godly? They still were constantly whining about how they weren't uber enough. Forget all the gimped hybrids...necros wanted to solo the gods!

[Eriol]

<blockquote>Forget all the gimped hybrids...necros wanted to solo the gods! <hr></blockquote>You obviously didn't hear about the ranger that soloed one of the Zeks. Tallon or Vallon, I don't remember, but it WAS done.

[Romka]

<span><blockquote><hr>Eriol wrote:<blockquote>Forget all the gimped hybrids...necros wanted to solo the gods! <hr></blockquote>You obviously didn't hear about the ranger that soloed one of the Zeks. Tallon or Vallon, I don't remember, but it WAS done.<hr></blockquote>AoW was soloed by too, by bard <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div>

[Nosewar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eriol wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>Forget all the gimped hybrids...necros wanted to solo the gods! <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You obviously didn't hear about the ranger that soloed one of the Zeks. Tallon or Vallon, I don't remember, but it WAS done.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I retired EQ1 before it got super [Removed for Content] with all the AA garbage.  The problem is, you had to put up with 50 levels of gimped hybrid hell before you enjoyed any of the bandaid fixes they created to appease the broke hybrid classes and bored hardcore players looking for any excuse not to leave an aging game.</P> <P>And it's pretty obvious what my point is...just because it can be done doesn't make it right.  Just the mere possibility is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  Necros were uber in EQ1 and a powerful solo class from 20+ --  they did not need a single thing added to them, yet still the necros there were never satisfied.  They could give necros in EQ2 evac, two pets, xp rez, ability to wear plate, and 150% speed buff and they would still complain they aren't powerful enough.  People will never be happy, period.</P>

[StueyMonst]

<P>I'm gonna have to fire my parser up when I get home.  I find it very hard to believe this is only about 10% nerf of our total damage.</P> <P>When you can proc this off of Dooming Dharkness, Deathly Coil and Abominable Mark (no recast timer on Mark line so throw one of those in if you are waiting for any other timer), as well as most of our other DD and DoT's 10% seems a little low, though I will take it as true until I parse otherwise.</P> <P>I do agree however, that if this was a extra 150 damage instead of 300 from launch of DoF/CU, we would have been quite happy.</P> <P>It is frustrating that it was announced that SOE were happy with where all the classes were, then to be presented with this and so MANY other changes (to all classes) in LU16, but I love playing my Necro too much to give up on the smelly old Troll!</P> <P>Lets give it some time guys.</P> <P> </P> <P>Dhark</P> <P>Runnyeye Troll Necro Sage</P> <p>Message Edited by StueyMonster on <span class=date_text>11-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:38 AM</span>

[Soland]

Looks like Lich is going back up on the shelf for me, right where it was before the combat revamp. Oh well, at least make our master spell at 60 a spectre or something <span>:smileytongue:</span> <div></div>

[NUKER 1]

i hung in threw all the 9months of being one of the most broken classes.. to get fixed and love playing my charcter /// to be nerfed into what we were.. thanx alot...

[Za]

<blockquote><hr>NUKER 101 wrote:i hung in threw all the 9months of being one of the most broken classes.. to get fixed and love playing my charcter /// to be nerfed into what we were.. thanx alot...<hr></blockquote>And this is the worst thing.Apparently LU13 broke the game completely. Becasue apparently Necros were completely useless and broken all but for 1 power that apparently had the effect of turning class that was worse than any other class to one that was in the top 3.Thats not balance!Maybe some of you should try playing a different class, cuz necros pre 50 were NOT at the bottom of the heap. So how can 1 spell at 50 change that?... and they didn't take the spell away, they lowered the damage it did!Why must all EQ2 forumn posters be drama queens! I swear the box says this game is supposed to be 13 years and up only, but most of you sound like 10 year olds! Can you post something that doesn't ooze with hype, and dooms-day drama? Can you recognize that while this will lower our ability to kill stuff in 10 seconds, that we'll still be able to kill it in 15 seconds?

[Lich_Ekil]

<P>think if enough of us canceled our accounts and add to the already low numbers they would reconsider this bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] move?  I quit SWG due to the stupid [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] nerfs, and thinking of doin the same here now.  Smoothe move SoE, show us how truely great you are at sucking the [Removed for Content] of the petty whinners! </P> <P> </P> <P>and obv Zald has to be a Conjurer.  were you crying that a Necro did more damage then you in a group to?</P> <p>Message Edited by Lich_Ekilam on <span class=date_text>11-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:10 PM</span>

[Za]

<blockquote><hr>Lich_Ekilam wrote: <P>think if enough of us canceled our accounts and add to the already low numbers they would reconsider this bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] move?  I quit SWG due to the stupid [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] nerfs, and thinking of doin the same here now.  Smoothe move SoE, show us how truely great you are at sucking the [Removed for Content] of the petty whinners! </P> <P> </P> <P>and obv Zald has to be a Conjurer.  were you crying that a Necro did more damage then you in a group to?</P> <p>Message Edited by Lich_Ekilam on <span class=date_text>11-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:10 PM</span><hr></blockquote>and obviously thats a self portrait by your name.No, My current main is a L55 Necro> I just happen to be adult and rational enough not to shove 1 thumb up my ase and one in my mouth everytime SoE makes a change that doesn't add to my class! I actually play Everquest, not Necro Forumn Posters'sQuest.

[Named]

<DIV>I have to actually agree with Zald. Even though hes going on a flaming rampage, he is correct. This nerf isn't going to break our class. We're sitll going to be wanted in groups for our dps. If you're going to quit the game over something fairly minor like this, then you're never going to be happy anywhere you go.</DIV>

[Za]

I'm really not trying to go on any flaming rampage. Its just that my posts soooo contradict what so many others are saying its hard not to sound that way.But they're all so extremely wrong when they say how bad off the class is. I know that devs listen if something is really wrong and you give them an objective argument. IF what goes live is truely broken, the last thing that the class needs is a forumn full of ignorant sounding, whiney posts to completely drive anyone at SoE that might care away. If you don't pick your battles you end up loosing them all. This is certainly NOT a battle worth fighting!<p>Message Edited by Zald on <span class=date_text>11-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:28 PM</span>

[Sonic X]

The main problem is that lich let us do damage in shorter fights and fixed the problem before the revamp of not getting any damage in before the mob was killed. That was one of the huge issues, when targeting a single raid mob overall at the end of the fight we do alot of damage to it. Yes we have utility but it's not something other classes with more needed roles already have. There are other classes who can heal and rez who are not priest's.I'm not saying we're useless but people are still more likely to say: get a wizard/warlock And if they want crowd control and great buffs they'll get a Coecer/Illusionist. We can do damage or less burst, and minor crowd control so we don't professionalize in anything but using pet's. If they don't want us to do good damage give us unique and usefull utility that makes us as a class wanted more.<div></div>

[Za]

<blockquote><hr>Sonic X wrote:The main problem is that lich let us do damage in shorter fights and fixed the problem before the revamp of not getting any damage in before the mob was killed. That was one of the huge issues, when targeting a single raid mob overall at the end of the fight we do alot of damage to it. Yes we have utility but it's not something other classes with more needed roles already have. There are other classes who can heal and rez who are not priest's.I'm not saying we're useless but people are still more likely to say: get a wizard/warlock And if they want crowd control and great buffs they'll get a Coecer/Illusionist. We can do damage or less burst, and minor crowd control so we don't professionalize in anything but using pet's. If they don't want us to do good damage give us unique and usefull utility that makes us as a class wanted more.<div></div><hr></blockquote>We have a niche! You're right, if a group wasn't pure burst damage, get a ranger or wizard. Thats what they do. Necros are steady damage. We're not supposed to out nuke a wizard... As part of day to day groups, Summoners in general are there to add pet damage and combat utililty. I hate that the pet class forumn is completely dissing its pets! What ignorance! With Lich and everything else I can through at a mob, I'll never out damage my DPS pet in offensive stance, that's where my bread and butter should be. The Necro niche is that we add top notch damage and also bring top notch utility. Even more ignorant is the notion that all groups are so max/min oriented that they only take Master + capable wizards becasue they're the only ones that do enough damage. Who you pick up in a group REALLY depends on what you need. If you need DPS, I've yet to be in a group that turned down a Summoner to look for a wizard, that's [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]! If you're in a group fighting down arrow mobs and killing things so fast that you feel that you aren't useful leave the freakin group becasue you aren't getting exp from a group that's running around killing trivial content anyway.

[Sonic X]

<div></div><div></div><div></div>Trust me there are people who will purposely pick out certain classes all though they can all do damage. That doesn't mean all people do this, but some do this on purpose with this knoweledge. And it's not asking and being turned down, people like the so-called Tier 1 DPS classes are more likely to get asked to join a group then a Necromancer/Conjuror. No one is going to go we could use decent dps and decent utility, when other classes are great in those areas.And when i group with people i always kill yellow triple up arrow mobs. I was in group recently with a monk, paladin, inquisitor, fury, ranger, and me. The mobs were going down so fast that only lich was contributing to my damage output and even after i stacked my dot's it would be dead before i contributed much and the pet would get his few hits in too.I'm not crying that i'll quit if it goes live or that we're crap because of this change. But it's annoying as hell when we get 3 little notes nerfing stuff and no other worthwhile fixes like making spells work right or have a use. That's the MAIN complaint and why so many people are taking this negatively(and some of them over top i might add). Pretty much every other class got something good out of it, if they're going to tweak us and nerf us at least fix some of the [Removed for Content] broken spells.Also they didn't make any other changes to lich, we all know if this was a certain other class there would have been other changes accounted for this spell's reduction in damage, and on top of that almost all the other classes in the patch notes got fixes for things to make them more usefull, all we got was less damage. Assassins were touting how they weren't Tier 1 DPS while we have valid complaints about lich not taking a fair amount of health, but nope just a nerf. I have it at adept 3 and would carefully use it because i could easily get aggro which was the other downside besides health loss. I'm not going to quit the game until my damage is utter poop but indian giving is lame.Also all these other classes are getting feedback right from the devs but they make a big change reguardless of whether it's right or wrong to discuss it with us over here, or at least the reasoning behind it.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Sonic X on <span class="date_text">11-05-2005</span> <span class="time_text">06:51 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Sonic X on <span class=date_text>11-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:56 PM</span>

[Fierce Ra]

I do agree that is somewhat strange that the dev's have come out and explained some changes that were made to the classes already, but have neglected us necros.  Maybe it's because they might be busy.  Or maybe it's because they feel like we would give them a harder time if they did respond to this nerf.  I have played other MMORPG's and nerfs have always been hard to take for the simple reason we get used to playing a certain way and having things being one way or the other.  I guess all we could do is hope for a dev response on this issue since the necro community has always been courteous and have lived with being broke for some time.  I guess it could be worse, we could be enchanters, lol.

[Lich_Ekil]

<P>Well Zald get that little necro of yours to 60 and then talk a bit son.  Lich is class defining and should not be messed with.  I used mine for the last 10 levels and when soloing the extra damage helps tons to keep down time low since our pets dont mitigate damage as well as they used to and gets the snot beat out of it when fightng anything that drops ANYTHING worth a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] getting.  The Platinum spent to get Master I of it is now a total waste.</P> <P> </P> <P>Group?  Well only things worth grouping are the DoF instances and with the incredibly long lock outs there and me not needing exp well.....grinding out to lotto on vendor trash isnt worth the time.</P>

[Tokam]

<P>Well balls</P> <P>Sory folks - this nerf bat swing is all my fault. You see I just got to lvl 50 and scribed my second ever M1 spell (Lich). </P> <P>It is good atm going for circa 350 and it certanly is fun to group dot + PB AoE to take down mob groups with the extra damage from the lich proc. I guess that my concern is that - with this offensive proc reduced, just what exactly is my role in your typical balanced group? I know that I will still get the wow factor from raids but otherwise I think we might be a poor groupmate compared to all of the burst dps clases. Now even more so.</P> <P>I dont know, I was just really enjoying finally getting my toon to 50 (being a 60 cook keeps me inside you see) and now i feel like someone kicked my legs from under me. I dont understand how we are ment to make a meaningful dps contribution on the way up to 60 in grouped fights with heroics, if level 50 is the sum total of our personal damage. Seems to me like the white con heroics will continue to go down quickly from burst dps with me making a smaller and smaller comparative contribution. </P> <P>If a 60 necro could re-assure me that they still feel like they are helping against white con heroics, and that they think this will still be the case after lich offensive proc reduction. Could they not have tinkered with a different spell? - or just fixed t6 provisioning, now both halfs of my character feel broken <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>/dispirited</P>

[Nosewar]

<P>^^^^</P> <P>Not only that, there isn't hardly any difference in play style from 20+ imo.  Every class gets about two new unique spells every tier added, the rest being simple upgrades to existing lines.  This whole notion before the expansion that 50s knew a whole diff game than 40s, and now 60s know a whole diff game than 50s, is ridiculous.  Same crap was said in EQ1 expansion after expansion as the end game level cap was raised. Truth of the matter? [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] near nothing changes from low end to high end. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to play this game folks, and particularly not an easy game like EQ2.  EQ1 was far more difficult because a death really meant something.</P>

[evhallion]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lockeye wrote:<BR> <DIV>Included in an update soon for the test server for LU16 includes 2 upgrades in DoT spell damage for the Necromancer's 'Withering Affliction' and 'Blight' spell lines.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The reason for the reduction in Lich damage was evident because in how its proc benefit alone can often outdamage spells like Ice Comet and Blazing Presence in its overall damage per second. Necromancers post 50 are close to where we wanted them to be overall, but they were doing too much damage through one spell (with power regeneration benefits that don't follow the cap rules). More of their damage was weighted towards a single spell, so what about all of those Necromancer's that aren't level 50 yet? The pre to post level 50 game shouldn't be such an imbalance within a class, and looking at the change to Lich justified improving other spell lines the Necromancer has throughout their adventuring that will help them level, including post 50.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Here is what the Dev's had to say for themself.</DIV>

[MrGrimm9]

<DIV>Alright, that doesn't seem too bad.  They buffer our lich nerf with a slight increase in our dots.  I can be okay with that then.</DIV>

[evhallion]

<DIV>Problem is, I'm not seeing any DOT increases in the test notes yet. Til then I'm still not happy.</DIV>

[Handleba]

When they put them in, they will just say that the spell lines DoT's damage has been increased.  Hopefully they say 100% or 200% or 300%.  Hopefully the latter <span>:smileytongue:</span>I have torrential plague master and it is a joke at about 120 dmg every 3 seconds.  Hope they double or triple the damage or even better, make it every second so we can do damage on group mobs before they are dead.  Or both.  I'd like to see 200-250 dmg every second for 4 seconds, that'd be the best <span>:smileysurprised:</span><div></div>

[Badd Boy]

Personally I think it would be a nice trade. Lich is awesome, I loved using it but on the same token it is not hte end of the world. For those of you scrambling to find our "role in a group" after this spell gets decreased in dmg then you are obviously not playing your toon to its extent. We have plenty of DPS and a fair amount of utility. If you used Torential plague to spark your Lich before that is a total of about 400-500 dmg on all mobs in the encounter. Now lich is dropping down and plague is going up. I think it will stay close to the same dmg using both of the spells. No worries here!<div></div>

[Jai1]

Im not surprised at all about this. I have really enjoyed playing as a necro after the combat revamps and have been telling people we are going to get nerfed as I offtank ^^^s. It has made up for the 50 levels of playing the hardest dps class to play effectively. It seemed we only shined in power regen with long encounters and raids. I started the game wanting to play a raiding class. I'm not afraid of being able to loose this ability. Reducing Lich dam isn't going to cripple the class. I still heal better than any other mage. Its a real hoot to bring someone back from purple or helping keep the maintank up. I wanted to heal more than do damage. The combo with MII Siphon works really well for me. I still enjoy being able to FD and rez. There has been a lot of improvement with the combat changes. We arent going back to the gimpness before combat changes. I also never have problems in groups.

[May Ham]

Umm...they are not improving the damage on any of our spells...They are improving the way our shackle and slow work...thats it..

[El Chupacabr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> May Ham wrote:<BR> Umm...they are not improving the damage on any of our spells...They are improving the way our shackle and slow work...thats it..<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>And the blight line as well as withering affliction.  Check the dev tracker.

[May Ham]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE><STRONG></STRONG> <HR> El Chupacabras wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><STRONG></STRONG> <HR> May Ham wrote:<BR> <STRONG>Umm...they are not improving the damage on any of our spells...They are improving the way our shackle and slow work...thats it..<BR></STRONG> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><STRONG>And the blight line as well as withering affliction.  Check the dev tracker. </STRONG> <BR><STRONG></STRONG> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Ahh, thats all the info I saw on the 16b test update..</DIV> <DIV><BR>Mystic changes:<BR>- Ancient Balm now increases properly with spell scroll upgrades.<BR>- Prophetic Guard no longer generates hate, and its recast timer was reduced by half.<BR>- Oberon had its warding amount increased.<BR>- Water Spirit no longer requires confirmation to take effect.<BR>- Slothful Spirit upgrades now drain power at the intended rate.<BR>- Wards of the Eidolon will now correctly process damage absorbed by the ward.<BR><BR><EM><STRONG>Necromancer changes:<BR>- Chains of Torment now guarantees that fear will land when the root breaks, but at a decreased duration.<BR>- Clinging Darkness now triggers an additional snare when the first one breaks, and it costs less power.<BR>- The proc damage caused by Lich was reduced.<BR></STRONG></EM><BR><EM>Paladin changes:<BR>- Blessing of the Penitent is now a toggled ability without an expiration timer.<BR>- Divine Favor now prevents death 100% of the time it is active.<BR>- Sigil of Heroism now ignores anyone that already has the Redemption line on them.<BR>- Consecrated Aura no longer causes issues with group stealth and invisibility spells.<BR>- Pious Belief no longer stacks with Vigor of Trust.<BR>- Pious Belief can now be toggled.<BR></EM></DIV>

[El Chupacabr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> May Ham wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE><STRONG></STRONG> <HR> El Chupacabras wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><STRONG></STRONG> <HR> May Ham wrote:<BR> <STRONG>Umm...they are not improving the damage on any of our spells...They are improving the way our shackle and slow work...thats it..<BR></STRONG> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><STRONG>And the blight line as well as withering affliction.  Check the dev tracker. </STRONG> <BR><STRONG></STRONG> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Ahh, thats all the info I saw on the 16b test update..</DIV> <DIV><BR>/snip</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><STRONG>Included in an update soon for the test server for LU16 includes 2 upgrades in DoT spell damage for the Necromancer's 'Withering Affliction' and 'Blight' spell lines.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The reason for the reduction in Lich damage was evident because in how its proc benefit alone can often outdamage spells like Ice Comet and Blazing Presence in its overall damage per second. Necromancers post 50 are close to where we wanted them to be overall, but they were doing too much damage through one spell (with power regeneration benefits that don't follow the cap rules). More of their damage was weighted towards a single spell, so what about all of those Necromancer's that aren't level 50 yet? The pre to post level 50 game shouldn't be such an imbalance within a class, and looking at the change to Lich justified improving other spell lines the Necromancer has throughout their adventuring that will help them level, including post 50.</DIV> <P></P> <DIV>===========================<BR>Jared Sweatt<BR>EverQuest II Spells and Combat Designer</DIV><BR>

[May Ham]

<DIV>That'll work, looks good..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[iria]

<DIV>I am glad that they are considering increasing our dot dmg, but unless your fighting some epic or named mob it won't change our dps at all.  It will be nerfed hard on 90 percent of the mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How many of you actually ever see our dots live thier full life?   How many fights ever last more than 10 to 15 seconds.   Yes, we will be seeing fights last longer while soloing, but thats a nerf in itself.  It will take longer for us to kill a mob.  But unless your gonna go through increasing the health points of all the mobs in the game or your gonna nerf the burst dps of the other classes, it won't make one hill of beans difference what our dots do.   They will do thier initial dmg and maybe one tic then the mob dies.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would have much rather them improve our death rot spell or our siphon life.   You might say, well we are necros and hence dmg over time is our thing, well ok, but then your also saying we are broken as a class.  Lich fixed our class.  If you want to nerf the dps on lich, ok.   ( I don't like it and don't agree with it but whatever ), but if your gonna nerf it nerf it 20 to 30 percent not 50!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have death rot M1 atm, and well its ok but just ain't that great.  If it was increased to something like 250 to 300 per tic every 1 second for 4 seconds for 1000 to 1200 dmg, it would be a spell worth having.   atm its just a good filler spell when nothing else is up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Handleba]

For having 1200+ posts, you aren't very polite at all.  <div></div>

[SirFreakus]

<DIV>While Zald may not be PC enough for some, I would have to completely agree with what he has to say.  Since this nerf it seems that the entire Necro community have become a bunch of whiners.  I know I'm being harsh myself, so pardon my frustration here.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Plain and simple... if the Necro class is played well, you can outdps pretty much everyone.  At least I have been able to and I parse regularly and play with a variety of players.  Remember the tiering system for the Combat changes?  Necro's were susposed to be Tier 3 with a tank pet and Tier 2 with a DPS pet.  Well, I would say we are pretty close to tier 1 even with the tank pet.  (just my opinion)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes it's a bummer they are nerfing Lich, but no it's not the end of the Necro class... not by a long shot.  I spent quite a few plat on the Adept 3 version as well... and post 9th patch I still think it's very much worth it.  I'd even drop a lot on getting the Master if I could... only for the 2% power conversion.</DIV>

[Handleba]

<div></div> A lot of people were complaining before the analysis was done.  Now, very few are complaining because we have been told by a dev that some of our less powerful DoT's are getting a boost.  I hold my judgement until I can play with the changes myself tomorrow. And I'm not saying that disagreeing=impolite, those are your words.  I am saying that telling someone they don't know how to play their class because they have a different opinion isn't needed.  <div></div><p>Message Edited by Handlebars on <span class=date_text>11-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:22 PM</span>

[XBr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SirFreakus wrote:<BR> <DIV>While Zald may not be PC enough for some, I would have to completely agree with what he has to say.  Since this nerf it seems that the entire Necro community have become a bunch of whiners.  I know I'm being harsh myself, so pardon my frustration here.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Plain and simple... if the Necro class is played well, you can outdps pretty much everyone.  At least I have been able to and I parse regularly and play with a variety of players.  Remember the tiering system for the Combat changes?  Necro's were susposed to be Tier 3 with a tank pet and Tier 2 with a DPS pet.  Well, I would say we are pretty close to tier 1 even with the tank pet.  (just my opinion)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes it's a bummer they are nerfing Lich, but no it's not the end of the Necro class... not by a long shot.  I spent quite a few plat on the Adept 3 version as well... and post 9th patch I still think it's very much worth it.  I'd even drop a lot on getting the Master if I could... only for the 2% power conversion.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Actually if you look closely, you'll see that several frequent posters on the necro forum are not whining. El Chup, Named88, Handelbars, me, for example. It's more, well this isn't cause for celelbration, but it's not that bad and we were definitely overpowered in short fights before.</P> <P>I'm starting to level my wiz this week, and i certainly don't want to find he's unwanted at 60 because necros outdamage him in all fights of all lengths. WIth the way Lich was, that was in fact the situation. By shifting the necro dps from short-term (Lich front-loads everything) to longer-term (DoTs), the necro's role as the long-haul damage dealer is defined better.<BR></P> <p>Message Edited by XBrit on <span class=date_text>11-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:26 PM</span>

[Sonic X]

A dev reply, now i'm happy. But it does make more sense, and they are making it a win/win situation. I was mainly mad the original notes were all these fixes and improvements for other people while we just got something lowered with no explanation. Look forward to it now.<div></div>

[iria]

<DIV>ok this is laughable.  lol</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zald has a inquisitor.  He hasn't even made it to level 60 but seems an expert.  That isn't a personal attack but more an obvious statement.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Xbrit who started all this bro ha ha.. is starting a wizard.  He says that we are over powered and should be nerfed but is starting a wizard bc he obviously thinks his own class isn't good enough to play full time. LOL>  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ok   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Iriani and many of you others are necromancers full time!   we live breath, eat, die necros.   all these fake necros who quote figures and facts and talk about how necros have it great and btw we they are leveling thier bezerker or wizard....lol well they are full of it!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My point is simple.    My point is that don't belive everything you hear.  IF you are a hard core necro you give your heart and soul for everything necro.  IF your a fake necro...you come to these boards talking a good game, but show your true colors when the time comes.    Well Xbrit and Zald have shown thier true colors.  They don't care about you as a class, infact they could care less.   Thats too bad.   I wish they did.  </DIV>

[jeffdo]

<DIV>I'd be more happy with a dps decrease if we had the same ease of ability to kill even and higher level heroics solo, that wizards and warlocks do. Yes, we can do it </DIV> <DIV>but they have a way easier time at it, which shouldn't be the case. That new lockdown root that doesn't break for them, gives them too much ability and defeats the whole purpose of needing a pet. If they can avoid taking any damage at all, and dish out better dps than us, they're simply superior.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Necros are hardly a utility class anymore than scouts/wizards are. More so, our two utilities come at 43 and 49, where the other classes get them much earlier.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My feeling is evacs are as useful as a 15 min fd and res, same goes for group invis, selos, tracking, etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I haven't done the numbers but I am also curious if the reduced proc from lich coupled with reduced damage spells from the expansion, equal out to before the combat changes? I remember we were nuking for about twice what we were before the changes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Jeff</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[El Chupacabr]

<span><blockquote><hr>iriani wrote:<div>ok this is laughable.  lol</div> <div> </div> <div>Zald has a inquisitor.  He hasn't even made it to level 60 but seems an expert.  That isn't a personal attack but more an obvious statement.  </div> <div> </div> <div>Xbrit who started all this bro ha ha.. is starting a wizard.  He says that we are over powered and should be nerfed but is starting a wizard bc he obviously thinks his own class isn't good enough to play full time. LOL>  </div> <div> </div> <div>ok   </div> <div> </div> <div>Iriani and many of you others are necromancers full time!   we live breath, eat, die necros.   all these fake necros who quote figures and facts and talk about how necros have it great and btw we they are leveling thier bezerker or wizard....lol well they are full of it!</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>My point is simple.    My point is that don't belive everything you hear.  IF you are a hard core necro you give your heart and soul for everything necro.  IF your a fake necro...you come to these boards talking a good game, but show your true colors when the time comes.    Well Xbrit and Zald have shown thier true colors.  They don't care about you as a class, infact they could care less.   Thats too bad.   I wish they did.  </div><hr></blockquote>Debate is healthy and if well researched and argued in a reasonable manner, nothing but positive (in life as well as this silly game).  If you want to mention fake necro's, note that the two oldest-school necro's agree with this change since it's coupled with other enhancements (myself and Handelbars). Xbrit's been around for a while on another forum name but he said something he shouldn't have with his necro account... Zald, while a bit less polite than I'd choose to be, still has his points and in general helps to foster healthy debate.  Both of those guys have helped the offline necro community in their own ways and we generally know their true colors.  I certainly know what they're all about and frankly people that have their post counts with the majority of responses being more than one sentence aren't just out to troll.  Perhaps both can be a little quick on the response key but in general they just care about making it the best game it can be and to post that they could care less is a bit ill-informed. Yes, lich as a single spell was overpowered.  Spreading lich's damage out amongst the other spell lines is reasonable considering the mechanics of the class.  I still believe the reduction to lich is a little bit too much, but I won't know for sure 'til I see it live.</span><div></div>

[El Chupacabr]

<span><blockquote><hr>jeffdo wrote:<div>/snip</div><div> </div> <div>I haven't done the numbers but I am also curious if the reduced proc from lich coupled with reduced damage spells from the expansion, equal out to before the combat changes? I remember we were nuking for about twice what we were before the changes.</div> <div> </div> <div>Jeff</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>Almost all necromancer spells doubled (at least) in damage with the expansion plus lich was added.</span><div></div>

[Named]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> iriani wrote:<BR> <DIV>ok this is laughable.  lol</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zald has a inquisitor.  He hasn't even made it to level 60 but seems an expert.  That isn't a personal attack but more an obvious statement.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Xbrit who started all this bro ha ha.. is starting a wizard.  He says that we are over powered and should be nerfed but is starting a wizard bc he obviously thinks his own class isn't good enough to play full time. LOL>  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ok   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Iriani and many of you others are necromancers full time!   we live breath, eat, die necros.   all these fake necros who quote figures and facts and talk about how necros have it great and btw we they are leveling thier bezerker or wizard....lol well they are full of it!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My point is simple.    My point is that don't belive everything you hear.  IF you are a hard core necro you give your heart and soul for everything necro.  IF your a fake necro...you come to these boards talking a good game, but show your true colors when the time comes.    Well Xbrit and Zald have shown thier true colors.  They don't care about you as a class, infact they could care less.   Thats too bad.   I wish they did.  </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I agree with both Zald and Xbrit. And please don't try to tell me that I'm not a hardcore, full time, die hard necro.</DIV>

[Za]

<blockquote><hr>iriani wrote:<DIV>ok this is laughable.  lol</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zald has a inquisitor.  He hasn't even made it to level 60 but seems an expert.  That isn't a personal attack but more an obvious statement.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Xbrit who started all this bro ha ha.. is starting a wizard.  He says that we are over powered and should be nerfed but is starting a wizard bc he obviously thinks his own class isn't good enough to play full time. LOL>  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ok   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Iriani and many of you others are necromancers full time!   we live breath, eat, die necros.   all these fake necros who quote figures and facts and talk about how necros have it great and btw we they are leveling thier bezerker or wizard....lol well they are full of it!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My point is simple.    My point is that don't belive everything you hear.  IF you are a hard core necro you give your heart and soul for everything necro.  IF your a fake necro...you come to these boards talking a good game, but show your true colors when the time comes.    Well Xbrit and Zald have shown thier true colors.  They don't care about you as a class, infact they could care less.   Thats too bad.   I wish they did.  </DIV><hr></blockquote>I call it as I see it. If you're old school or if you're new school and have a valid argument, then please by all means state it... Yeah, I happen to like EQ2... not just the necro class, albeit it is the most fun I've played in EQ2. I absolutely want whats best for the game 1st, then all the classes. I try not to pick favorites and I really try not to step on anyones toes. But whats that saying about breaking a few eggs to make an omlette?I don't take your post personal, I take it as irrelivent. I think you really think you're making a point... Oh well. I hope your in game status makes you feel really special. My only words of advice... go outside. If you ... and I quote <i>"live breath, eat, die necros"</i>, I hope someone that cares about you calls an intervention, becasue that's not healthy.Power to the people!... or whatever the latest rebel yell is...<p>Message Edited by Zald on <span class=date_text>11-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:31 PM</span>

[XBr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> iriani wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  IF your a fake necro...you come to these boards talking a good game, but show your true colors when the time comes.    Well Xbrit and Zald have shown thier true colors.  They don't care about you as a class, infact they could care less.   Thats too bad.   I wish they did.  <BR> <HR> <BR>You're in, what, 9th grade?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>

[NightGod473]

<span><blockquote><hr>jeffdo wrote:<div>I'd be more happy with a dps decrease if we had the same ease of ability to kill even and higher level heroics solo, that wizards and warlocks do. Yes, we can do it </div> <div>but they have a way easier time at it, which shouldn't be the case. That new lockdown root that doesn't break for them, gives them too much ability and defeats the whole purpose of needing a pet. If they can avoid taking any damage at all, and dish out better dps than us, they're simply superior.</div> <div> </div> <div>Necros are hardly a utility class anymore than scouts/wizards are. More so, our two utilities come at 43 and 49, where the other classes get them much earlier.</div> <div> </div> <div>My feeling is evacs are as useful as a 15 min fd and res, same goes for group invis, selos, tracking, etc.</div> <div> </div> <div>I haven't done the numbers but I am also curious if the reduced proc from lich coupled with reduced damage spells from the expansion, equal out to before the combat changes? I remember we were nuking for about twice what we were before the changes.</div> <div> </div> <div>Jeff </div><hr></blockquote>New lockdown root? You mean the mez that stuns the caster at the same time it locks the mob? Yeah, that'll bump the old soloing ability. AFAIK only coercers get an unbreakable root.</span><div></div>

[Nosewar]

<DIV>Well as the resident curmudgeon you know where I stand... I support all necro nerfs! Actually, all game nerfs in general.</DIV>

[Tokam]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nosewarts wrote:<BR> <DIV>Well as the resident curmudgeon you know where I stand... I support all necro nerfs! Actually, all game nerfs in general.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Git</P> <P>:smileyhappy:</P>

[XBr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sulpeel wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>Git</BLOCKQUOTE> <P>:smileyhappy:</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>[Removed for Content] <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[Tokam]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> XBrit wrote:<BR><BR>[Removed for Content] <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Trouble maker :smileytongue:</P> <P><BR>LOL - I confused my Toxx guildmates with what was (i'd like to think) an impressive array of truly 'british' descriptions like that. Good effort matey. Attempting to reign the post back on topic, looking forward to the server coming back live so as I can see for myself the effect of our spell changes on our short encounter dps. Also persuaded some guildies to take me to CoD for easy raiding - be fun to see just what I can peel off of who with our 50 Pally doing her hate transfer thing...</P>

[Jai1]

<DIV>I think this is the Iriani that used to be on Vallon Zek.  He/she does really love her classes. In EQ1 she leveled 2 enchanters but only the first was Iriani. Who knows though. Not sure why we both picked necros. At least we arent on the same server and there are no Ancient Cyclops around. lol. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I understand what shes saying though. If you really are gung-ho about the class, you will stick with it nomatter what. I hear all the complaints but they dont apply to me. My guild picked up the slack for me pre-combat changes.  I realize I was doing about 150dps but didnt care. I like being a necro. I had to think about my char class well before I spent time developing it. I don't have time to level multiple toons and I'm pretty sure I'll still be able to be a great necro. Whatever that entails.</DIV>