Lev 54 Master choice revisited. Question for expirienced.

[Brutu]

<DIV>I would like to know what do you think about your choice at lev 54. I have read lot abot this choice, but I would like to hear some expirience with these <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV>As for now (I am only fresh lev 50 and too much excited of Lich - its WOOOOW :smileyvery-happy: ) I would probabely go for Dogs - but Iam not sure about offensive stance too (buff seems just dumb for me and siphon looks not on par with dogs/stance).</DIV>

[Eesti]

I went for the pet stance since its always in use and i think it over time is the best choice for maximising my damage. If you solo alot the dogs are probably better though. <div></div>

[Romka]

<div></div>I'll explain my choice... What options we have: 1 - Siphon Life. I already had m1 version, and there was just minor improvement with m2. Declined. 2 - Dogs. To be honest, i always hated them and didnt like. I dont like that they die from 1st riposite, and I use them pretty rare. Yeah, I know, they are doing OK dps... but.. well, I just dont like to use them :p 3 - Pet offensive buff. At 44 I chose pet offensive m2, and my pet (that i was using in exp groups - m1 scout) was drawing aggro from all tanks - Shadestrike - and aggro is on pet. Nope, tanks werent "bad", but aggro generated by pet was too hight. Its fine and OK in exp groups - but in raids it might be a problem. So, if I wont use pet/offense in raids so often, why do I need this spell? 4 - Group buff. This was the only option that was left for me. Well, I was thinking offense buff or group buff... but watching my pet's dps I decided to get m2 group buff. And I even found pros! INT is needed not just for mages - bards, fighters, even priests (/cough <fury  wanna be wizard> /cough) need it for damage increase, and these classes never have it capped, or even close. So, extra INT in group still might be usefull (not for me tho =). <div></div>

[soulrais]

<P>well for me its hands down gonna be pet buff .....</P> <P>why:</P> <P>int buff is only soso and we get an upgrade to it in a few lvl so def not picking this</P> <P>siphon life is nice but not as big of increase as hoped it would be over m1 or even adept 3 for that matter</P> <P>dogs are nice and dps boost is good but as stated before they die alot on repopsite -- thow this is still a very valuble option depending on play style</P> <P>pet buff -- i use the scout pet alot group raiding even soloing. i go more for the burn the mob down fast approach when i solo then the tank it type -- solo alot in silet city and scout pet kicks [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] there most mobs die so fast bearly get chance to hit pet or me-- do have master pet and all adept 3 or master of my oher spells but get u point</P> <P>agro issue not been nothing i cant control if tank is loosing agro to my pet 1. he either needs to upgrade his taunts 2. your sending in your pet to fast and pullin agro off him from the burst of shadowstrike-- wizards do same if they cast ice comet at start of fight</P>

[Named]

<DIV>I went with dogs because they are probally our #2 damage spell on raids. When they last for the full minute ( they always do with good positioning ), this spell is by far our most efficient one in our  book.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They seem to put out a constant 100 - 150ish dps over long term fights. </DIV>

[XBr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Named88 wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They seem to put out a constant [...] dps over long term fights. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>*cough* that is my parse result too but do we really wanna publicize it?</DIV>

[Xalmat]

<blockquote><hr>XBrit wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Named88 wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They seem to put out a constant [...] dps over long term fights. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>*cough* that is my parse result too but do we really wanna publicize it?</DIV><hr></blockquote>Why not? It's not like swarm pets are risk free.

[Named]

<DIV>Theres worse things that I can publicize... <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[MrGrimm9]

<DIV>I went with dogs as well.  These do quite a bit of damage.  Put them behind the mob and they will be worth it.  I might have chosen to get the offensive stance at Master II because I love to see my pet do a crapload of damage (and it would be good in pvp) but the pet gets too much agro as of right now and I already had it at master quality.  I also had siphon at master but I don't think it is worth it at master II considering you could get dogs or pet stance.  And honestly I don't know why anyone would choose the group buff.</DIV>

[Tzen]

Well, I went with the group buff simply for the fact that this effects everyone in my group, and since I primarily group I figured it was the best choice.  I'm thinking of respecing though and taking the pet buff.

[El Chupacabr]

<DIV>The greatest thing you can bring to your group is damage, unfortunately the 19 added int difference between the adept 1 and master 2 of teachings just doesn't bring it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As I've said many times, there are only two choices at 54 for training, either the dogs or the offensive buff.  Unfortunately, the pet buff isn't as useful to the warlock pet as it should be so not an all the time grouping upgrade like you expect.  I like both but for the greatest flexibility and most use over all playstyles, I'd say the pet offensive buff is the best master 2 upgrade.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Remember, the offensive master 2 is one of the fastest passive hastes in the game, giving you more consumption strikes for time and more clawing of the soul proc's (with the increased damage the master buff gives).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Neither of those two is the wrong choice, the dogs are great but agro control with them is a little too unpredictable in a raid setting for me to make them my master 2.</DIV>

[Night76]

<DIV>Well think the best choice in my opinion would be the pet buff or the doggs for extra dps</DIV> <DIV>I took the Pet Buff<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />..I'm a tankromancer hehe</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the aggro issue...well that mostly the tank problem.A good tank will always hold aggro in groups/raids and wont loose aggro to me.(unless I send in my pet and nuke it with the strongest spells right away (remember lich does extra damage on ur disease spells) lol).</DIV> <DIV>As for the dogs dying fast ...never had problems with that  just position to the back of the mob and unless the mob does ae they will most likely survive for a long time<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Halgaav, lvl 60 necro Innothule.</DIV>

[MrGrimm9]

<DIV>Remember, swarm pets are no longer affected by aoes unless directly targetted and in a raid that is never going to happen.  So if you put the dogs behind the mob, they will not get hit by riptose and they should last the full duration and that should add more dps that the difference between adept III pet stance and master II pet stance.  It is hard to say though, because the scout pet is pretty uber and with consumption hitting more it just depends really on what master spells you have.  If I did not already have the pet stance at master I, I probably would have chosen to get it at master II.  I think there are really good reasons for dogs or the pet stance.  I think the dogs would be better dps in a raid situation whereas the pet buff would be better in 2 groups or less, or instancing, so I guess it depends on your playstyle which would be better for you.  Siphon life is good but the upgrade from adeptIII/master I to master II will maybe bring you 15 more dps which ultimately isnt going to do you much good.  The group buff giving only 19 more int and sta isnt going to be a big deal as well as in most raids you are going to have max int anyway.  19 sta won't be great in a raid unless you are in the MT group, and that isn't very often.  The best choices are really the pet stance or dogs.</DIV>

[El Chupacabr]

It's not the AoE's and riposts, it's the swarms dropping at the end of their duration, dumping a minutes worth of dps right into your lap (which only happens in raids).

[Named]

<DIV>The dogs are always a viable option on raids. They do damage and are only killed by ripostes. Your main pet is subject to the EXTREMELY punishing aoes from the DoF raid mobs. Atleast 75% of DoF raid mobs have some sort of aoe that can one hit your scout pet.</DIV>

[Leawyn]

<P>Rizaz is my hero =)</P> <P>I chose the group buff at the time, but still have my respec that I was saving till I hit 60. I chose the group buff because my guild leader said "THINK OF THE GUILD" when I originally picked, so I picked that one. Rizaz my dear, I may be hitting you up in game to talk about my other options too! <3 n stuff!</P>

[El Chupacabr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Named88 wrote:<BR> <DIV>The dogs are always a viable option on raids. They do damage and are only killed by ripostes. Your main pet is subject to the EXTREMELY punishing aoes from the DoF raid mobs. Atleast 75% of DoF raid mobs have some sort of aoe that can one hit your scout pet.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I certainly never said they weren't... I'd rather have the increased haste and lifetap to put onto a tank pet if the AoE is too much for a scout pet than the perhaps questionable upgrade from ad3 to m2 of the dogs that will be dumping the added hate to you in one minute no matter what precautions you take.</P> <P>Different styles I guess, gimme the offensive buff flexibility any day of the week.</P>

[Sonic X]

I'm debating Siphon Life(Master 2) currently at Adept 3, or the pet buff(currently at adept 1). Only reason i consider siphon life is for it breaking the 1k damage mark and minor improvement in health returned. Anyone know if Siphon Life breaks the 1k damage mark with int and levels? I've only seen it do so, so far as only a Master 1 spell.<div></div>

[Sosum]

I took teachings as it was the new spell, I didnt have any form of it yet and everything else was adpet three already. it may not be the best but I dont regret it (it helps grp mates more than I) <div></div>

[Leawyn]

I've broken 1200 dmg with siphon life on adept3. Just a matter of buffs really. <div></div>

[Za]

Cadd, Teachings is not new. Well, its not new in the sence that the L50+ version is the only one you get. Teachings of the Dead is L40 I think and is the exact same thing just lower level.And Siphon damage is based on Int, so its pretty easy to get over 1K damage with Adept 3. I don't plan on blowing Master 2 on it...The group buff at Adept III is more than enough to help your group. I'm going either Stance or dogs. I'm 53 ATM, and I already have Adept III dogs, so more than likely I'll take the M2 stance... At some point if I have an extra pearl to blow, maybe I'll get stance at Adept III and respect the dogs to M2.

[IA~CHAOS]

Oh heck ya, with a beserk or illusionist in grp that have buffs that proc I can hit for 1500 with that sucka, I'm only lvl 56.  Max int of course but heck ya.

[Tzen]

Well I finally /respec last night and took the stance over the group buff.  Just need to get a good parser now and see if I made a good choice hehe

[Brutu]

<P>Thank you all for great responses.</P> <P>Can someone please sent here pictures of these spells? Would be very nice to see numbers (especially Adept3 - Master1 - Master2 difference). And would be even better if these screenshots would be taken with some nominal INT so they are comparable  if more ppl send these <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />- lets say INT 300?</P> <P>Iam still lev50 but will be 51 soon and still pretty unsure if its better to get Adept3 dogs - or save rare (because it will be wasted if I will take M2 option). And seeing differences (at least on stance which is my second favorite along with dogs) would help me alot <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>ty <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Sosum]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zald wrote:<BR>Cadd, Teachings is not new. Well, its not new in the sence that the L50+ version is the only one you get. Teachings of the Dead is L40 I think and is the exact same thing just lower level.<BR><BR>And Siphon damage is based on Int, so its pretty easy to get over 1K damage with Adept 3. I don't plan on blowing Master 2 on it...<BR><BR>The group buff at Adept III is more than enough to help your group. I'm going either Stance or dogs.<BR><BR>I'm 53 ATM, and I already have Adept III dogs, so more than likely I'll take the M2 stance... At some point if I have an extra pearl to blow, maybe I'll get stance at Adept III and respect the dogs to M2.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Necromancer 54 Teachings of the Shadows A group augmentation that increases stamina and intelligence for the necromancer's group and their pets.<BR></DIV> <DIV>Like I said I took the new Teachings spell. I had all the others at adept3 and not not recieved/found/bought the teachings spell yet so I burned the M2 on that as I did not see the benefit of adpt3 to M2 being huge on any of the other spells.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Eirgo]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Brutus7 wrote: <P>Thank you all for great responses.</P> <P>Can someone please sent here pictures of these spells? Would be very nice to see numbers (especially Adept3 - Master1 - Master2 difference). And would be even better if these screenshots would be taken with some nominal INT so they are comparable  if more ppl send these <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />- lets say INT 300?</P> <P>Iam still lev50 but will be 51 soon and still pretty unsure if its better to get Adept3 dogs - or save rare (because it will be wasted if I will take M2 option). And seeing differences (at least on stance which is my second favorite along with dogs) would help me alot <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>ty <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Here is the M2 Voice of the departed.  This was taken when I was 54 and Im not sure what my INT was - probably around 325 or so.  I think the only part of this spell that scales with INT though is the damage from Clawing of Souls.  I am at work atm so I cant verify this.</P> <P> </P> <P><IMG alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com" src="http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y53/Eirgorn/voice.jpg"></P> <P>Hope this helps,</P>

[Brutu]

<P>Thank you - I found Adept 3 version in another post here: </P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=30&message.id=13011" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=30&message.id=13011</A></P> <P>it was posted by Romka and I hope he/she will not be angry to me for reposting this picture here for easier comparison on one page (also just reposting Eirgorn picture for easy, next to each other view):</P> <P><IMG src="http://www.eversor.com/public/necro/53_voice_of_the_departed.png"><IMG src="http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y53/Eirgorn/voice.jpg"><A href="http://www.eversor.com/public/necro/53_voice_of_the_departed.png" target=_blank></A></P> <DIV>If the Haste bonus is really not dependant on INT then 43% to 51% difference is (imho) HUGE! and really cant see what could beat this <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV>Only thing to deeply consider is that under raid conditions pet is getting killed by AOE pretty easily and there is pretty much no way to avoid it. Dogs (with proper positioning, which is not always possible) can survive this. Also Iam not sure - is warlock pet benefiting from haste at all??</DIV>

[El Chupacabr]

<P>Faster (fastest haste there is) pet, more procs, higher proc damage, rending fury procs sooner and more often so you're pet runs around 70% haste all the time.  That haste is the same no matter your int and it really is a huge deal.  Worse comes to worse you can have a tank pet running with 70% haste for good damage and survivability.</P> <P>Unfortunately, the only benefit the warlock pets get from any of our buffs is clawing of the soul... all the skill increases do is reduce the chance of fizzling, it doesn't increase effective cast level though s'posedly they do something mysterious that can't be measured with a parser (buffed and unbuffed warlock pet does the same damage minus the clawing procs).</P> <P>So no, warlock pets don't benefit from haste.  My opinion is that once you become a rending frenzy necro the warlock pet should go to the back of the spellbook (unless against a piercing resistant/slashing immune [or vice versa] raid mob).</P>

[endaemoniada]

<P>I've chosen Siphon Life (mine was Adept3), this spell has a decent timer. During raid, my feeling is Adept3 was too often resisted, the Master II version bypass a lot of "resist". It's a long range spell, so you can stay out of AOE range and cast DD and Siphon Life so I think it's a good choice. Now if you already have the Master I version, the upgrade is probably not the best choice.</P> <P>I wasn't thinking the dogs are a good choice,but it seems some of you have chosen this spell, eo why not <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> if SOE gives the choice I suppose all the spells could fit, it just depends of your gameplay.</P> <P> </P>

[ume]

<P>I spent about an hour trying to decide between the pet buff and Siphon Life.  I'm very indecisive, lol.</P> <P>Finally decided on the pet buff, which rocks btw, then won the Master I Siphon Life on a raid the next day.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[XBr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> umerr wrote:<BR> <P>...won the Master I Siphon Life on a raid the next day.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Gratz man! California lottery is up to $224 million, buy some tickets quick!!</DIV>