Necro stun

[Tzen]

<DIV>Is it me, or does it just suck not being able to use our stun on epic mobs?  </DIV> <DIV>It's not like our stun is that good anyway.  It's slow to cast, and not a long duration.</DIV>

[El Chupacabr]

Bruiser fear works on epics, hows that for a poopy deal?

[Frostborne]

That's because Moorguard doesn't play a Necro <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <span><blockquote><hr>El Chupacabras wrote:Bruiser fear works on epics, hows that for a poopy deal? <div></div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[El Chupacabr]

<P>Now that isn't nice!</P> <P>We actually do have epic stuns and stifles... they're just used by our pets, we have no personal epic status effects.  If there's a mob you need to stun, the rotting thrall line can knockdown/stun epic mobs and I'm pretty sure the assassin line can stifle 'em.</P> <P>Just fyi.</P> <P>Edit:  I haven't had a chance since the stun/stifle nerf to test this... prior to the last update they could do it, make no guarantees about after this patch.</P> <p>Message Edited by El Chupacabras on <span class=date_text>10-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:58 AM</span>

[Frostborne]

<div></div>Chupa, how/why would you use stuns/stiffles? To slow down damage of the mob?  I've done that in a group before, but not sure if it was as helpfull, since it seemed better just to help do damage.  I could see if it was going to stop him from casting some uber spell, but it's not like there is a broadcast or anything that says, "Super Duper Mob casting Most Dreaded Burninantor Spell!" which would cause me to jump on the stun.  Even if I did stun it, or stiffle, wouldn't it just cast it the second the stun/stiffle wore out? <div></div><p>Message Edited by Frostborne on <span class=date_text>10-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:11 AM</span>

[El Chupacabr]

<P>Stuns and stifles are used to stop those 20k ice comet spells that epics like to cast... unfortunately with the last update that ability has been taken away from the classes (which I'd forgotten all about when I originally responded) though our pet may get to keep the knockdown, ya never know.  The mobs don't always do the big damage spell once the stun expires though the goal in raids was for everyone to keep the mob locked down as much as possible through stuns and stifles.</P> <P>I rarely stun in groups as the cast is too long for too short a duration, casting something else will probably keep the mob from doing the same damage.  If my pet wants to stun and stifle, more power to him (though we can't control when they'll do it).</P>

[Tzen]

<P>Heh, pretty funny Frost. </P> <P>That's pretty interesting about bruisers though.  Especially considering when I think of the fear spell... I think of necros.   Maybe we just aren't scary anymore :smileysad:</P>

[armus5]

<P>Stun is a very useful spell when soloing.  The long cast time does suck and the duration is never 12 seconds. It would be lovely to have it at 20. The best use I've found is it gives you time to heal your pet when soloing a heroic. We can't solo - with a pet tanking agro - blue or higher mobs, without a healer. Borderline mobs are ok when you stun, as well at use dogs and [Removed for Content]-zombie. The also give you a chance to let your pet get agro again, or at least some more. They do need to be longer and, like our invis, are not the calibur of other classes. We have solo-invis, many others have grp. We have stun, others have stun epic and stifle. </P> <P>Armus</P>

[Eirgo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> armus550 wrote:<BR> <P>Stun is a very useful spell when soloing.  The long cast time does suck and the duration is never 12 seconds. <FONT color=#00ccff>Pretty sure the examine text says our stun lasts 6 secs.  </FONT>It would be lovely to have it at 20. The best use I've found is it gives you time to heal your pet when soloing a heroic. We can't solo - with a pet tanking agro - blue or higher mobs, without a healer. <FONT color=#00ccff> Depending on your gear/lvl and what mob you are fighting we can pet tank blue ^^^ and probably higher.  The lvl 52 gnolls ^^^ are pretty easy to pet tank at 53-4.</FONT>Borderline mobs are ok when you stun, as well at use dogs and [Removed for Content]-zombie. The also give you a chance to let your pet get agro again, or at least some more. They do need to be longer and, like our invis, are not the calibur of other classes. We have solo-invis, many others have grp. We have stun, others have stun epic and stifle. <FONT color=#00ccff>I dont think any classes can stun/stifle epics anymore, just interrupt.</FONT></P> <P>Armus</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Edit - forgot to mention the gnolls I was talking about were the ones around the Twin Tears in SS.  They are pretty easy but only worth about 0.1% or slightly higher xp and not really worth it to kill over solo group mobs.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Eirgorn on <span class=date_text>10-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:40 PM</span>

[Tzen]

I kill yellow solo encounters all the time.  I've yet to try a ^^^ blue or green simply because the time to kill vs the xp gain simply isn't worth it.  I'm sure it's all a matter of your level, the level of your spells and the quality of your gear... and of course the skills at the keyboard.   Regardless though, if you can't solo whites and yellows you need to look at some upgrades.

[Frostborne]

<span>Aren't group mobs loot tables better than solo mobs? <blockquote><hr>Eirgorn wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> armus550 wrote: <div></div> <p>Stun is a very useful spell when soloing.  The long cast time does suck and the duration is never 12 seconds. <font color="#00ccff">Pretty sure the examine text says our stun lasts 6 secs.  </font>It would be lovely to have it at 20. The best use I've found is it gives you time to heal your pet when soloing a heroic. We can't solo - with a pet tanking agro - blue or higher mobs, without a healer. <font color="#00ccff"> Depending on your gear/lvl and what mob you are fighting we can pet tank blue ^^^ and probably higher.  The lvl 52 gnolls ^^^ are pretty easy to pet tank at 53-4.</font>Borderline mobs are ok when you stun, as well at use dogs and [Removed for Content]-zombie. The also give you a chance to let your pet get agro again, or at least some more. They do need to be longer and, like our invis, are not the calibur of other classes. We have solo-invis, many others have grp. We have stun, others have stun epic and stifle. <font color="#00ccff">I dont think any classes can stun/stifle epics anymore, just interrupt.</font></p> <p>Armus</p> <hr> </blockquote> <div>Edit - forgot to mention the gnolls I was talking about were the ones around the Twin Tears in SS.  They are pretty easy but only worth about 0.1% or slightly higher xp and not really worth it to kill over solo group mobs.</div><p>Message Edited by Eirgorn on <span class="date_text">10-14-2005</span> <span class="time_text">01:40 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[KBern]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eirgorn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> armus550 wrote:<BR> <P>Stun is a very useful spell when soloing.  The long cast time does suck and the duration is never 12 seconds. <FONT color=#00ccff>Pretty sure the examine text says our stun lasts 6 secs.  </FONT>It would be lovely to have it at 20. The best use I've found is it gives you time to heal your pet when soloing a heroic. We can't solo - with a pet tanking agro - blue or higher mobs, without a healer. <FONT color=#00ccff> Depending on your gear/lvl and what mob you are fighting we can pet tank blue ^^^ and probably higher.  The lvl 52 gnolls ^^^ are pretty easy to pet tank at 53-4.</FONT>Borderline mobs are ok when you stun, as well at use dogs and [Removed for Content]-zombie. The also give you a chance to let your pet get agro again, or at least some more. They do need to be longer and, like our invis, are not the calibur of other classes. We have solo-invis, many others have grp. We have stun, others have stun epic and stifle. <FONT color=#00ccff>I dont think any classes can stun/stifle epics anymore, just interrupt.</FONT></P> <P>Armus</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Edit - forgot to mention the gnolls I was talking about were the ones around the Twin Tears in SS.  They are pretty easy but only worth about 0.1% or slightly higher xp and not really worth it to kill over solo group mobs.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Eirgorn on <SPAN class=date_text>10-14-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:40 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Just an FYI, those gnolls are lvl 52 heroic ^^, not ^^^.</P> <P>I have pretty decent gear....almost all ad3's across the board, and my pet cannot straight up tank blue ^^^.</P> <P>I can kill the blue lvl 52 ^^^ raptors, but that is not using my pet and I have ad3 lich.<BR></P>

[XBr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KBern wrote:<BR> <P>I have pretty decent gear....almost all ad3's across the board, and my pet cannot straight up tank blue ^^^.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>On blue ^^^ I generally use the pet at first, don't heal it just let it die. When it dies get rid of all dumb pets, root mob, then either go to the root/stun/nuke routine or make a new pet and stun/send pet in/hope pet gets agro back before stun wears off. There's a lot that can go wrong, and a resist or fizzle or hostile stun at the wrong moment means FD or dead necro. But it's about 40-80% success rate for me dependiing on the mob type, and I am NOT the world's most skillful button-masher.</DIV><p>Message Edited by XBrit on <span class=date_text>10-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:21 PM</span>

[Tzen]

I need to try that sometime, just to say I can hehe.

[KBern]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> XBrit wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KBern wrote:<BR> <P>I have pretty decent gear....almost all ad3's across the board, and my pet cannot straight up tank blue ^^^.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>On blue ^^^ I generally use the pet at first, don't heal it just let it die. When it dies get rid of all dumb pets, root mob, then either go to the root/stun/nuke routine or make a new pet and stun/send pet in/hope pet gets agro back before stun wears off. There's a lot that can go wrong, and a resist or fizzle or hostile stun at the wrong moment means FD or dead necro. But it's about 40-80% success rate for me dependiing on the mob type, and I am NOT the world's most skillful button-masher.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by XBrit on <SPAN class=date_text>10-19-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:21 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Well yeah, that is half tanking and half liching the mob to death I guess.  But it still confirms that we can kill heroic ^^^ but not truly by our pet tanking.</P> <P>We can chain cast our pets and use roots, or the lich method with no pets, or a combo of the two as your strat is, but I just laugh when people say they see summoner pets straight up tanking yellow ^^^ while they nuke it down.</P> <P>I got real bored liching the 52^^^ raptors....too long of a fight, not any better loot, and no better exp really than chain killing easier mobs.</P> <P>************************************************** ************************************************** *************************888</P> <P>But on topic with the stuns, I think they are only 6 seconds duration too, and not 12...I could be wrong.</P> <P>But I use mine all the time when soloing, and sometimes in a group if the mob is a difficult one, I usually lay out one stun at the start of the fight so the healers can be ahead of the curve at any time with the healing.<BR></P>

[lancekortesoja]

<span>Moorguard doesn't play a bruiser... He plays a SK<blockquote><hr>Frostborne wrote:That's because Moorguard doesn't play a Necro <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <span><blockquote><hr>El Chupacabras wrote:Bruiser fear works on epics, hows that for a poopy deal? <div></div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[Eirgo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lancekortesoja wrote:<BR><SPAN>Moorguard doesn't play a bruiser... He plays a SK<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Frostborne wrote:<BR>That's because Moorguard doesn't play a Necro <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> El Chupacabras wrote:<BR>Bruiser fear works on epics, hows that for a poopy deal? <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Im 99% positive MG's main is a bruiser.</P> <P> </P> <P>As for the reply earlier about those gnolls only being ^^ that would explain why they are so easy.  I pretty much use XBrit's methods to kill ^^^'s.  Send in pet and dumbfires till the pet is almost dead - cancel the dumbfires and start casting root and cancel my pet right before it lands then proceed to kill with lich procs off of snares and roots keeping fear up incase of resists and stunning/siphoning/rerooting every 45 secs.</P>

[Za]

<blockquote><hr>armus550 wrote: <P>Stun is a very useful spell when soloing.  The long cast time does suck and the duration is never 12 seconds. It would be lovely to have it at 20. The best use I've found is it gives you time to heal your pet when soloing a heroic. We can't solo - with a pet tanking agro - blue or higher mobs, without a healer. Borderline mobs are ok when you stun, as well at use dogs and [Removed for Content]-zombie. The also give you a chance to let your pet get agro again, or at least some more. They do need to be longer and, like our invis, are not the calibur of other classes. We have solo-invis, many others have grp. We have stun, others have stun epic and stifle. </P> <P>Armus</P><hr></blockquote>OMG! Some of you people really should hang out with other necromancers!90% of the solo mobs I kill yellow and lower don't live 12 seconds... in 20 I could kill 2 of them!Soloing Heroics?... Yeah ^^^ mobs have tons of HPts, but if you try a little strategy, you can solo white and blue ^^^ mobs. Green ^^^ can be done without an extra healer or strategy.Our stuns are perfect! Not overpowered, but not useless either. My stuns last the full 6 seconds always... and screw stuns for CC, have your pet stop attacking and use root. Then back away from the mob. Root can lost indeffinately.--- One thing I see WAHY too often is Necromancers using imbued weapons and robes and still casting App II and Adept I pets. DON'T WASTE MONEY ON GEAR! Spells! Nothing else really matters as much or can do you as much good in the long haul. You're better off naked with an Adept III or master I pet than full Legandary fear and an App IV pet with crappy spells.

[Za]

<p>Message Edited by Zald on <span class=date_text>10-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:25 PM</span>

[Fierce Ra]

Very well said.  I couldn't have said it better myself.  Spells should always be your number one priority.  The rares are out there so there's no excuse to have all your spells adpet 3 or better.  Our root could last a litltle bit longer and would be a lot better if it worked on Epics.  I gues they didn't want to see a group of 24 necros take out epic mobs.  I would definately sign up for that.

[El Chupacabr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zald wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>/snip<BR>Our stuns are perfect! Not overpowered, but not useless either. My stuns last the full 6 seconds always... and screw stuns for CC, have your pet stop attacking and use root. Then back away from the mob. Root can lost indeffinately.<BR><BR>/snip <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Our stuns are actually broken, they are s'posed to have the longest duration (as per the community summit) of the mage stuns but don't.</DIV>

[Za]

Sheesh! How long should they be! I'll take 6 seconds of unbreakable stun vs 12 seconds of it might get resisted every 2 seconds any day. I doubt they'll give us a 12-20 second mob stopper that can be reused every 24 seconds... or whatever the reuse is, its not that long.

[El Chupacabr]

It isn't an unbreakable stun, it has a chance to be partially resisted just like everyone elses.

[Za]

Maybe its just my luck or perception then. But I've never had anything but good experiences using stuns. I'm not even using adept 3 or Master stun and they just tend to do what I need them to.

[Suraklin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lancekortesoja wrote:<BR><SPAN>Moorguard doesn't play a bruiser... He plays a SK<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Frostborne wrote:<BR>That's because Moorguard doesn't play a Necro <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> El Chupacabras wrote:<BR>Bruiser fear works on epics, hows that for a poopy deal? <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Moorguard plays a Bruiser not a SK</DIV>

[Eriol]

Well at least our stun LOOKS much cooler than anybody else's. I STILL get comments in groups on how the big skeletal hands look awesome.But ya, the summit was pretty clear that we are supposed to have a longer stun than others. Hope this happens relatively soon (though I'm not holding my breath either).

[XBr]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eriol wrote:<BR>Well at least our stun LOOKS much cooler than anybody else's. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Direct ripoff of the Warlock Bony Grasp root graphic, been ingame snce release for that spell. Made me feel right at home when I changed mains from warlock to necro <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It works quite well as the graphic for a single target stun, but when a warlock fires it off for a whole group it's a huge lag generator. Way too high of a polygon count.<BR></DIV>

[Za]

The Inquisitor root has also always used this graphic/animation.