RT Drawing too much Aggro!

[bmm7410]

<DIV>I have been usuing my RT to pull mobs to me since I got the spell.  However, I have noticed Recently, (since the combat patch, in fact) that sometimes when i send him to pull, he brings back an extra mob or 2 that i didn't target.  Did they implement a AE on him or an aggro field, or is this simply a bug.  Anyone else have this happen?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just curious.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Xalmat]

You sure those mobs you're pulling aren't social?

[bmm7410]

<DIV>hmmm...That's a good point.  I suppose it's probably a sure thing that you are correct.  Guess the thought just had not occured to me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's happening on the Djinns in PoF and the Orcs in SS.  Since i just started fighting in these zones I'm not used to what is social and what is not.  Thanks for the help.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It just seemed really inconsistant...   It only happens about once or twice in every 10 or so pulls so it just seemed odd.</DIV><p>Message Edited by bmm7410 on <span class=date_text>10-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:21 AM</span>

[KBern]

<P>They are social.  If your pet pulls one of their buddies within their agro range, they will come with the pull.</P> <P>Goblins, Harpies, Orcs, Gnolls, Lizardmen, Dervishes...and many others in DoF all have this social agro.</P>

[Gomora_Toad]

<DIV>On a semi-related note, does anyone know if pets are actually KOS to any mobs? I ask because I pet pulled a dune spiderling in SS, and the pet brought a nearby unlinked orc back with him as well. I was using RT adept 1, who doesn't have any true AE attacks that I know of, so I don't believe that was the cause. Which means a) the spiders and orcs have some weird social aggro going on, b) the orc sight-aggroed on my pet, or c) it was just a weird glitch.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I had something equally odd happen in Everfrost, pre-DoF/revamp. I sent my pet past some aggro minotaurs to pull an arctic behemoth (or whatever the big ice lizard things are called), and he came back with the behemoth and two groups of minotaurs. That was fun.  -_-  Again, it was RT adept 1, and my groupmates assured me that they hadn't buffed him with any sort of AE attack-granting buffs. I tried to reproduce it by pet pulling another behemoth next to some minos to see if they were social, I also tried invising myself and dancing the pet around a group of minos to see if they had sight-aggroed on him, and got nothin'. I've still not been able to figure out what happened on that first pull.</DIV><p>Message Edited by GomoraToad on <span class=date_text>10-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:20 AM</span>

[ume]

<DIV>Even pre-patch if there were mobs really close, they would come on the pet pull too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Are pet taunts AE now?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Last night my group pulled two different groups.  It seemed like my pet taunted one group then the other turned on him too.</DIV>

[gr8scott]

<DIV>Well it could have always been there, but last night was the first time I noticed this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was pulling the Great sabertooths in PoF.  Anyway, I would pull a cat and on a number of occasions I would get a cobra coming back with the pet as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It always happened when the pet did a ranged taunt (at first I was cycling between 'attack' and 'back off' in order to force a ranged taunt.  silly me...)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It looked to me like the ranged taunt AE could affect all mobs in the area not just the targeted / encounter mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>GS </DIV>

[KBern]

<P>The fish are like this in the northern ocean of PoF.</P> <P>If you pull any fish, even the non agro ones, it seems certain come to help like the blanketfish and what not.</P> <P>They appeared to have made even mobs of differing types socail if some are attacked.</P> <P>When I was doing Poets Palace access and getting the fir needle from the monk isle there, we actually monks join in fights to help the harpies that agroed some group members, even though the monks and harpies fight each other.</P> <P>We thought it was someone AOEing at first, but it happened like 5 times and the only thing we could attribute it to was either heal agro, breeze agro, or simply this weird social behavior.</P>

[Tzen]

I noticed that while pulling scorpions past the cyclops in PoF that the cyclops will add.  I don't know if that is a bug in the social system or what, but it's pretty annoying when you are a small group and not capable of handling them bad boys.

[nhdjoseywales]

<DIV>pet taunt is not ae, i fight in instanced zones with non social mobs who are about 2 feet apart and i can send the pet in to kill 1 group of 3 mobs and the other 3 continue to sit and eat dinner.</DIV>

[Eriol]

<blockquote><hr>nhdjoseywales wrote:<DIV>pet taunt is not ae, i fight in instanced zones with non social mobs who are about 2 feet apart and i can send the pet in to kill 1 group of 3 mobs and the other 3 continue to sit and eat dinner.</DIV><hr></blockquote>I would agree that the tank pet doesn't seem to have any "true AE" spells, but only encounter-based ones (taunt, etc), but that brings another question IMO: do ANY of our pets have any "true AEs"? I don't think I've encountered such, but I rarely use my warlock pet, and thus I'm not certain.Anybody have any experiences as such, or all just encounter-based?

[Mephli]

<DIV>The tank pets seem to cast a "group AE" type taunt not a "point blank AE" taunt.  What you're encountering is mobs that are social and help each other out.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Side note: I had a sabretooth attack me for pet pulling a tornado past it.... seems a bit strange to me.  /shrug</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Lodor]

<P>Actually what is happening is that you must be having the pet in defensive stance and when the pet is hit its damage lifetap shield is [Removed for Content] off any mob near them.</P> <P>It has nothing to do with taunt or social mobs.  its the lifetap damage shield that is doing it.  Go test it out with the defensive buff up and with offensive up.  Its pretty obvious what is happening.</P>

[Cryl]

If you are soloing in a situation where there are non grouped mobs and you feel they are too close to pull with teh pet... body pull them... the pet has such a good aggro that once the mob is pulled pet already has aggro and you only suffer 1 hit. If you are quick enough to pull then /pet attack then you won't even get hit. When doing this, make a note to have your pet in defensive stance which adds a certain % to aggro... offensive stance does not... <div></div>

[nhdjoseywales]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lodor wrote:<BR> <P>Actually what is happening is that you must be having the pet in defensive stance and when the pet is hit its damage lifetap shield is [Removed for Content] off any mob near them.</P> <P>It has nothing to do with taunt or social mobs.  its the lifetap damage shield that is doing it.  Go test it out with the defensive buff up and with offensive up.  Its pretty obvious what is happening.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>a damage shield only affects the mob that actually hits you. think of it as you wearing a coat of barbed wire. when the mob hits you its gonna hurt him. the problem is social mobs, nothing more nothing less

[nhdjoseywales]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crylon wrote:<BR>If you are soloing in a situation where there are non grouped mobs and you feel they are too close to pull with teh pet... body pull them... the pet has such a good aggro that once the mob is pulled pet already has aggro and you only suffer 1 hit. If you are quick enough to pull then /pet attack then you won't even get hit.<BR><BR>When doing this, make a note to have your pet in defensive stance which adds a certain % to aggro... offensive stance does not...<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>this is incorrect. the pets aggro on mobs it doesnt attack is zero because it is an NPC. pulling with the pet is much safer when dealing with closely grouped non social mobs. test for yourself in the maj dul tears grifter instances. the mobs are not social but are grouped very close together. if you proximity pull yourself you will get multiple groups of mobs, however on the other hand you can send the pet in on a single group and you dont even have to back him off, he can fight right next or even on top of other groups of mobs and not aggro them, nor do your spells aggro them if they are not area based ae spells (ie encounter based ae spells like torrential plague do NOT aggro nearby mobs and neither do single target spells).

[Cryl]

nhdjoseywales, that's ironic, because I find it better to body pull, than to use my pet to pull at certain times.. such as in clefts of rujark.. if I send in my pet with defensive stance buff on, he may pull 2 or 3 mobs... i can easily take out 2 or 3, but not when there are also roamers walking around...I walk up close to one of the mobs, he runs at me.. while I back up, and send my pet in to attack... I rarely get hit and I don't have to worry about the AE (or whatever ability it is) that my pet casts that causes multiple adds to join in...saying i am incorrect is on assumption, possibly only because you have not tried such a thing... again, I would like to reitterate, that this is not something that can be done all the time, it should only be done in certain situations... please use discretion.

[nhdjoseywales]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crylon wrote:<BR>nhdjoseywales, that's ironic, because I find it better to body pull, than to use my pet to pull at certain times.. such as in clefts of rujark.. if I send in my pet with defensive stance buff on, he may pull 2 or 3 mobs... i can easily take out 2 or 3, but not when there are also roamers walking around...<BR><BR>I walk up close to one of the mobs, he runs at me.. while I back up, and send my pet in to attack... I rarely get hit and I don't have to worry about the AE (or whatever ability it is) that my pet casts that causes multiple adds to join in...<BR><BR>saying i am incorrect is on assumption, possibly only because you have not tried such a thing... again, I would like to reitterate, that this is not something that can be done all the time, it should only be done in certain situations... please use discretion.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>to begin, its not ironic, its just a misinterpretation of the facts on your part. orcs in clefts are social or maybe you are sending the pet in on one of the dogs that has hidden orcs attatched to its encounter, you are talking apples and oranges. and if you can proxy pull 1 with your body i promise you i can do it with a pet. your pet has NO (count em ZERO) abilities to pull extra encounters of non social mobs.

[El Chupacabr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> nhdjoseywales wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>/snip</P> <P>and if you can proxy pull 1 with your body i promise you i can do it with a pet. your pet has NO (count em ZERO) abilities to pull extra encounters of non social mobs. </P></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Correct.<BR>

[tooloose]

<DIV>There is no doubt that there is an AOE in play on the RT. Not only does it bring back social mobs, it will bring back other class mobs on the same pull.</DIV>

[nhdjoseywales]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> tooloose wrote:<BR> <DIV>There is no doubt that there is an AOE in play on the RT. Not only does it bring back social mobs, it will bring back other class mobs on the same pull.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV> <DIV>please tell me what server you play on so i can make a toon there and you can prove this. or at least tell us detailed information where and when you have seen this happen, what mobs were involved and what pther spells were involved. you can easily prove you are wrong by going to an instance such as i described and letting the pet beat groups of mobs while sitting on top of other groups, there is NO repeat NO ae whatsoever.</DIV>

[Lodor]

<DIV>I know what a damage shield is.  that isnt the point. it is the defensive stances lifetap shield that is doing it. test it like i said.</DIV>

[Cryl]

<div></div>I do not understand why i'm told I am incorrect... try sending your RT pet on stonecrusher... you will see at least one other add no matter what... if you body pull, you do not see this add. I have done this well over 50 times just to verify if I'm some sort of nut and am imagining things... yes they are sociable, but I can guarantee that the RT is doing something thats AE, and it looks to me that it's magical, as there's a large flash when he pulls the 1 mob... what exactly is going on, I do not know... but I know for a fact that he pulls extra's at times when he shouldn't be doing so. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Crylon on <span class=date_text>10-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:21 AM</span>

[Elveira]

<DIV>Stupid question, but do RTs have an AOE taunt?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Eirgo]

<P><BR>I think El Chup and others are correct when pulling non social mobs, but things change when pulling social mobs with the pet.</P> <P>Try pet pulling the excited gamblers in Majdul.  Last time I did I always got the whole group of em.  However, if you get real close to one (they have timy aggro range) you can body pull one and fight it solo.</P> <P>I think this has to do with small aggro ranges and large social ranges attributed to many mobs in DoF.</P> <P>So if you are experiencing problems with extra aggro on pet pulls Im 99% sure it has to do with social tendencies of the mobs.  In DoF social tendencies are .... strange to put it mildly.</P> <P>If you go to the island in PoF with the bonsai tree for the Poets access update you can kill aggro harpies and get the non aggro monks to add on you.  This happened the other night to some of El Chup's guildies while I was there and I gave a hand rezing them because they werent expecting it (who would?).</P> <P>Just some oddities with social issues in the expansion imo.</P>

[El Chupacabr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eirgorn wrote:<BR> <P>/snip</P> <P>If you go to the island in PoF with the bonsai tree for the Poets access update you can kill aggro harpies and get the non aggro monks to add on you.  This happened the other night to some of El Chup's guildies while I was there and I gave a hand rezing them because they werent expecting it (who would?).</P> <P>Just some oddities with social issues in the expansion imo.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>What did they expect?  I wasn't with them <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</DIV>

[Eirgo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> El Chupacabras wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>snippity snip snip</BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>What did they expect?  I wasn't with them <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I know, I know ..... I tried to tell them to take it easy without you there :smileyhappy:<BR>

[El Chupacabr]

<P>Heh.</P> <P>As for the social/non-social thing... personally, I've never pulled two encounters if they weren't social and of the same type.  I'm not going to flat out say it can't happen or anyone is wrong, just in my experience it has never happened.</P> <P>As for the agro range of the socials, my guess is that when the pet fires off that first CA, he delivers some "splash agro" along with it.  I've always noticed this with my spells and why I pet pulled in the first place.  Two mobs within a certain range, you pull with a spell, they both come.  Two mobs in the same range and you body pull or pet pull and only get one encounter.  Perhaps they've incorporated a little of this splash agro in the pets CA's, much like we're burdoned with?</P>

[nhdjoseywales]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eirgorn wrote:<BR> <P><BR>I think El Chup and others are correct when pulling non social mobs, but things change when pulling social mobs with the pet.</P> <P>Try pet pulling the excited gamblers in Majdul.  Last time I did I always got the whole group of em.  However, if you get real close to one (they have timy aggro range) you can body pull one and fight it solo.</P> <P>I think this has to do with small aggro ranges and large social ranges attributed to many mobs in DoF.</P> <P>So if you are experiencing problems with extra aggro on pet pulls Im 99% sure it has to do with social tendencies of the mobs.  In DoF social tendencies are .... strange to put it mildly.</P> <P>If you go to the island in PoF with the bonsai tree for the Poets access update you can kill aggro harpies and get the non aggro monks to add on you.  This happened the other night to some of El Chup's guildies while I was there and I gave a hand rezing them because they werent expecting it (who would?).</P> <P>Just some oddities with social issues in the expansion imo.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>What you are saying makes a little sense if you think of the way aggro worked in eq1. Mobs have 2 different type of aggro. one is awareness aggro, the point at which they recognize you and decide you are something they want to kill. then there is a 2nd type of aggro called assist aggro which is the distance over which a mob will assist a social comrade who has been engaged in combat (usually this means taken damage or some form of hostile action or spell against them). often the 2 types of aggro have different ranges and often the assist range is greater than the awareness aggro range. try this test for me. the mobs you say you can pick solo via proximity aggro, try casting on them from a distance instead and see if you dont get adds. if you do, the mobs are social and you are causing damage (might work with just hostile spells in general) to their buddy within then assist aggro range which is obviously larger than their proximity aggro range. this would account for the pet getting adds on your situation and me being able to literally fight on top of another group of hostile mobs and get no adds whatsoever</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ive killed harpies at the tree and had no issues with monk aggro, i suspect something else happened noone will admit to</DIV> <DIV>you would be shocked at the number of people who never read their spell descriptions and dont realize that the taunt they just used is an ae taunt or that spell goes outside the encounter</DIV>

[Eirgo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> nhdjoseywales wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eirgorn wrote:<BR> <P><BR>Isnip</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>What you are saying makes a little sense if you think of the way aggro worked in eq1. Mobs have 2 different type of aggro. one is awareness aggro, the point at which they recognize you and decide you are something they want to kill. then there is a 2nd type of aggro called assist aggro which is the distance over which a mob will assist a social comrade who has been engaged in combat (usually this means taken damage or some form of hostile action or spell against them). often the 2 types of aggro have different ranges and often the assist range is greater than the awareness aggro range. try this test for me. the mobs you say you can pick solo via proximity aggro, try casting on them from a distance instead and see if you dont get adds. if you do, the mobs are social and you are causing damage (might work with just hostile spells in general) to their buddy within then assist aggro range which is obviously larger than their proximity aggro range. this would account for the pet getting adds on your situation and me being able to literally fight on top of another group of hostile mobs and get no adds whatsoever</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ive killed harpies at the tree and had no issues with monk aggro, i suspect something else happened noone will admit to</DIV> <DIV>you would be shocked at the number of people who never read their spell descriptions and dont realize that the taunt they just used is an ae taunt or that spell goes outside the encounter</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yeah I forgot to add that with those gamblers either pet pulling or pulling with a spell brings the whole lot of them.  So I think its being able to get close enough to make one mad and chase me, but he doesnt actually engage me until we are out of the other gamblers social range.</P> <P>As for the harpies at that tree, I cant really say for sure thats just what it looked like to me.  I'll take your word on it though, and may try it out personally this weekend when I have a chance to get on.<BR></P>