Dueling, some thoughts and questions

[Zave]

<DIV>After spending some time dueling i have some thoughts and questions. Firstly we are strong dueling class as we are now. I really hope they wont listen to whiners and nerf us again. We pwn all healer classes. Can easily kill paladins, sks, scouts...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But i found it impossible to win agains MONK, BRUISER, BRIGAND and CHANTERS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Even if my fear wont get resisted monks will heal and [Removed for Content] us. We just cant do enough dmg to kill them fast. So i need some tips about dueling with monks/bruisers. Good brigands are impossible too, cause they keep u stunned so fast that u cant cast a single spell. Same for chanters. Silence yourself, then mez pet. And u done.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lets discuss PVP strategies for above mentioned classes. I know there must be some way to win against them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have full legendary/fabled gear. ALL spells either adept 3 or master.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[MrGrimm9]

<DIV> <DIV>After spending some time dueling i have some thoughts and questions. Firstly we are strong dueling class as we are now. I really hope they wont listen to whiners and nerf us again. We pwn all healer classes. Can easily kill paladins, sks, scouts...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But i found it impossible to win agains MONK, BRUISER, BRIGAND and CHANTERS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Even if my fear wont get resisted monks will heal and [Removed for Content] us. We just cant do enough dmg to kill them fast. So i need some tips about dueling with monks/bruisers. Good brigands are impossible too, cause they keep u stunned so fast that u cant cast a single spell. Same for chanters. Silence yourself, then mez pet. And u done.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lets discuss PVP strategies for above mentioned classes. I know there must be some way to win against them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have full legendary/fabled gear. ALL spells either adept 3 or master.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Aiight buddy here we go.  The hardest classes for us is a fully outfitted ranger/chanter.  The others are not too much of a problem when you know what to do.  First lets tackle Monks and brigands since they are similarly dealt with.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All melee classes can be dealth with a slow way and a fast way.  I personally don't use the slow way too much because I like to end it fast <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> but I will explain it here anyways.  The first thing about melee classes is that they all have stuns that are under .5 seconds casting time so you must NOT start close to them.  Remember invisibility is your friend.  Cast invisibility as soon as the duel is accepted then RUN AWAY from them.  If a good monk or bruiser stuns you that can be it.  So be sure to be away from them when the duel starts then fear them.  Make sure your pet is set to not attack or he might unintentionally break fear.  If fear is resisted snare them and get away, the key is to not let them close.  Once they are feared or snared, you can do your sta/wis debuff so their resistances are lower then root them.  Now when they are rooted the whole stratagy is to not ever let them out.  Lich will proc on your spells giving you some added damage so when they are rooted stun them, then do siphon then re-root.  If root is resisted snare them and run away until root is back up.  Then run out of their throwing axes range and wait for fear and stun to come back up.  Then go in there, stun them, siphon life, and reroot, keep fear up incase root gets resisted and you need to do a fast fear or snare to keep them from getting to you.  Just repeat this cycle and they will run out of life much faster than you will.  That is the slow boring way.  Here is the fast way.  Buy a disease clicky wand (it is a disease based spell and will proc lich)  Then start the fight just the same except when they are feared, send your stench pet on them (a good monk will kill your dogs instantly so don't bother unless you know they suck) and send your main pet in.  Then stun them and do siphon and dot.  Then use sprint, yes that is right, sprint away and use your clicky wand.  Keep away from them and if they stop to deal with your pets turn sprint off and use siphon.  If you are almost oom, stop sprint and get as far away as you can then cast siesm, they should be incoming and get knocked back then you can do another siphon then continue running and they should be dead.  They key is to keep on the move.  Do not let them near you or they will stun you and beat the crap out of you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Brigands are much easier but they have an ace up their sleeve as well, stealth.  Start the fight normally (be invis and get away from them)  And if they start the fight stealthed, then when the duel starts they will become unstealth and you fear them, you have to be fast because you will have to target them quickly.  If they are planning on doing stealth as soon as the fight begins, spam fear and if you are lucky you will fear them before they get stealth off.  If they do get stealth off, then you have to chain cast siesm and when they get close you will knockthem back and make them visible with siesm, then fear them.  After they are feared, just send dogs in with main pet, then stun, siphon life, seism, dot and run away and your pets should eat them up by then.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Enchanters are very tough if they are played right.  And when they get their special spells they are extremely difficult.  I will talk about 2 types of fights, One where they don't have all thier special spells yet and one where they do.  First, I will talk about when they don't have the special spells spell shield and tyranical mind (might have spelled that wrong).  Here are two different starting stratagies.  One, as soon as the fight starts send your pet in and fear them, then get stun off asap.  If stun lands send dogs and nuke and they are dead.  Two, start casting siesm about 1.5 seconds before the duel actually begins, that way as soon as the duel starts, seism goes off and stuns them for 3 seconds, just enough time to fear them, then send dogs with main pet and stun them, then nuke and dead.  If they are smart though, they will expect seism and run out of its range, then you will have to send your main pet in and try to get fear off.  If your pet interupts them and you get fear off, back your pet off so that you can send dogs in and then resend your main pet off.  If they mez you it will get a little rough.  After they mez you your pet will be beating on them a second but then it will get mezzed.  Then you have to just keep feared queued up.  The odds are you will have 1 second free sooner or later after taking so much damage, if they are feared they are dead because of dogs, stun pet nuke dead.  You have to do nothing but keep fear queued basically because if you do not get this spell off you are dead.  Now I will talk about when they have spellshield and tyranical mind.  I know illusionists get spellshield but I forget who gets tyranical mind, I believe coercers do.  Spellshield will reflect the next 3 spells casted at the chanter at 75% or something efficiency back at the necro.  So what you have to do is get static pulse and lightning burst or some other fast cast time weak spell and as soon as the fight starts send your pet in and cast these weak spells to waste up those 3 free reflects.  Then try to get fear off.  They will most likely mez you and your pet during this time but illusionists can't keep you mezzed forever and you just have to count those 3 reflected spells then keep queueing up fear until it lands or you die, I have beaten an illusionists with spellshield about 4 to 1 with this stratagy (mostly due to my master assassin pet and master buffs) but they key is to just get fear off asap after those 3 reflects have gone.  Ok, now Tyranical Mind.  This spell damages you with your own mana.  It multiplies the mana useage of a spell you cast by like 4.68? or something like that and you take that much damage.  So if you cast a spell with 100 mana cost you take 468 damage.  (Upgrades to this spell might make that number go up I am not sure).  They key here is to not use your big mana spells like siphon and accursed cloud.  Bascially once you get fear and stun off just send your dogs/stench,main pet in and hope that they get interupted.  Use your clicky wand because it takes 0 mana.  I have tried to use cure arcane on this effect to no avail but that was in beta and I have not had a chance to try to cure it yet in live so it might work now since it is a mental effect. (But I doubt it will cure it)  The trick here is to get him feared then stunned and send all your pets in on him then just use your clicky wand and hope he gets interupted enough by 5 pets that he will die.  If these classes are played perfectly they can be very hard to beat, but there are very few who know how to duel the necro effectively and we can pull out the win.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some last tips:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*DO NOT LET MELEE CLASSES START OR GET CLOSE TO YOU.  I cannot stress enough, go invis and get away from them BEFORE the duel begins.  If you let a bruiser stun you at the start it is over, he will keep you stuned/stifled/knocked back until you are dead.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*Invisibility is your friend, always be invis before a duel starts, they will lose their target on you and have to waste time targetting you when the duel begins.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*Fear fwt most of the time we need to get fear off because it is a 1 second cast time, use it, and in long duels cast it again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*Against casters(doesnt help too much against sorcerers) cast seism 1.5 s econds before the duel starts and if you time it right it will go off as soon as the fight starts which will give you the upper hand starting out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*Conrol your pet, if you know you want to fear/snare/root someone make sure your pet is backed off so he doesnt break fear/snare/root unless you are sure you want him to (like for a chanter maybe)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*Get a disease wand, it procs lich and will help greatly in those melee battles when you need to kite someone without snare.  Don't be afraid to sprint to get away.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*While running if you start casting a spell then stop running and let it finish casting at just the right timing, you can cut off some of the casting time for the spell.  If you are really good you can run, cast, stop, run, finish casting and cut off even more casting time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ultimately the best pvper is the person themself and not the character.  But when played right, necromancers are definately one of the best.  </DIV></DIV>

[ume]

<P>Incredibly AWESOME POST MrGrimm!</P> <P>I'm a skilled pvp'r but still learning different techniques.  But you just made me 50% better.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I've had a lot of bad luck with fear resists, but I just got the upgrade last night when I dinged 52.  Anyone notice a decrease in resists when making Darkness Adept3?  or does it substantially reduce the rate at which the snare breaks/</P> <P>btw.  Monks/Bruisers HATE it when you leave them rooted for 30+ seconds while you summon pet and fully buff yourself.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Named]

<DIV>Very nice post medievh, but personally I find rangers and inquisitors the hardest to beat. I just can't seem to kill them outside of the arena. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[MrGrimm9]

<P>I've had a lot of bad luck with fear resists, but I just got the upgrade last night when I dinged 52.  Anyone notice a decrease in resists when making Darkness Adept3?  or does it substantially reduce the rate at which the snare breaks?</P> <P>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __</P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The resists are supposed to decrease as you upgrade to adept III, the main thing that the snare is like 91% at adept III.  Also another note, most casters do not have but maybe 60-70 str or so if they are lucky.  And most foolishly (myself included carry around a 100 lb box to hold stuff in) so we are weighted down.  The spell drawing of souls, our level 52 special spell, at adept III lowers str and int by like 51 or so? I forget, but anyways when a caster loses 51 str and carrys around a 100 pound box like most of us do, its like a perma snare that will not break because you are just burdoned.  Use this on those pesky mage classes that are running away from your pet in the arena trying desperately to get a health potion.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Zave]

<P>AWESOME strategies!</P> <P>Thanx for the tips but i have questions.</P> <P>First of all u know about the spell Sonic Fists? Bruiser teleporting to u in a sec and attacking u fast. How to deal with it. Also, fear get resisted too much as well as root, which suck <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I have master eternal bingings and still cant use them effectively. I will try strategies today. And post feedback. Thanx!</P>

[MrGrimm9]

<DIV>First of all u know about the spell Sonic Fists? Bruiser teleporting to u in a sec and attacking u fast. How to deal with it. Also, fear get resisted too much as well as root, which suck <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif" width=16 border=0> I have master eternal bingings and still cant use them effectively. I will try strategies today. And post feedback. Thanx!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sonic fists is not a big problem, if you use the fast way of killing them, you will be dishing more damage out than they can do to you with this skill.  If you use the slow way, its range is only 25 meters which is as far as TP or Horrific Mark, just find a spot where you cannot cast those because you are out of range and they can't use sonic fists on your either.  Always do fear first and if it gets resisted do snare.  The reason behind this is fear and snare are both 1 second casting time and you should be able to get them off before they get to you.  If both get resisted sprint away far enough for you do do seism, when they get knocked down then you can try to fear/snare them again, or if you want you can try to just straight up root them.</DIV>

[intoran]

only thing that gets me is someone shooting arrows at me guess if they are feared wont matter but a good assasin can off the pet fast and then just shoot you to death with arrows. any suggestions ?

[MrGrimm9]

<DIV><SPAN>what level are you <FONT color=#ffffff>introranat?  All my advice is valid for mostly 50+ players and I have never had an assassin ever beat me if I have successfully landed fear at the start.  Even if they do kill the pet, your stun, with main lifetap and other swarm pets are more than enough to take care of him quickly, add on your clicky wand and I don't see where your problem is. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>

[intoran]

<P>clicky wand ? I am lvl 28 just curious what clicky wand you speak of =) Love to have it if its soem quest !! I guess i need to upgrade my fear because your right once you get fear off i have ashot but seems like they can cast a few CAs and kill my pet then just arrow me to death but my gear isnt the best possible the assasin was just better geared. Anywho ... second mention of the clicky wand any info would be helpful.</P> <P> </P> <P>Thankie</P>

[MrGrimm9]

The clicky wand refered is a disease imubed rare wand made my woodworkers.

[ume]

<DIV>So I'm dueling at the docks in Sinking Sands for gold pieces and I'm in the process of hustling a guardian.  I let the guardian beat me and a bruiser walks up to me and says "I hate to tell you this, but necros suck at duels".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So after I beat the guardian a couple times, I ask the bruiser if we wants to fight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I start the fight off with a snare and was far enough away that he never had a chance to stun me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I then root him.  Stun him.  Then lifetap him.  Reroot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just repeated that several times while he sat there helpless for about 1 minute.  lol.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Of course I had to say "sorry to tell you this, but necros OWN at duels".  hehe.</DIV>

[MrGrimm9]

<DIV>That's right, represent!</DIV>

[Urbanna]

<span><blockquote><hr>MrGrimm999 wrote:<div></div>The clicky wand refered is a disease imubed rare wand made my woodworkers.<hr></blockquote>No need for it to be rare...common works just fine for the clickiness (you just get more int on the rare)</span><div></div>

[MrGrimm9]

<DIV>Does the damage scale though between common and rare?  I want to say it does but I forget.</DIV>

[Nainitsuj]

<DIV>What's your favorite place to duel?  Mine is anywhere with a cliff.  Heh, Wailing caves by the pit, Zek by the mine or anywhere in Sinking sands. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Stand facing towards the cliff (make sure your enemy is positioned in front of you) and fear. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A win is a win no matter how you got it.</DIV>

[Magu]

Fearing off a cliff is just mean <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> One suggestion: Do not rely on invis - all it takes is a player having eyepatch (or fabled jewelery with see invis) and that advantage is gone. This is one of the reasons I probably will never stop using the eyepatch <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> To counteract scouts that sneak at the start, buy some Spirit Totem of the Butterfly - it gives you See Hidden, so you can still target/attack scouts while sneaking <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  It's quite fun watching an Assassin try to sneak up behind me as my pet rips him apart with Blazing Presence before he gets close <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[evhallion]

<DIV>Anyone tried our Deadsight yet for stealth? It sees heat signatures so it stands to reason that body heat wouldn't be stealthed.</DIV>

[Magu]

Infravision/Sonicvision/Ultravision do NOT see invis/sneak. <div></div>

[Zave]

<P>some more thought</P> <P> </P> <P>first - bruisers again</P> <P>at 57 they getting a spell Close Mind which getting them immunte to stun/root/fear etc for 30 sec how to deal with it</P> <P> </P> <P>second - good conjurors</P> <P>fear is not an option against them cause</P> <P>if they run away nightshade and dogs cant kill him faster then his pet kills u and if not use fear conjuror stifles u and kill...</P> <P> </P> <P>any suggestions?</P>

[ume]

<P>Bruiser:</P> <P>Snare them and run around for the duration of their spell?  with the snare, you should be able to keep enough distance to occasionally try a root to test if they have their buff on.</P> <P>Conjurer</P> <P>Snare their pet and run around for the duration of the Conj's stifle?  Or is that their caster pet?  What is the duration/recast of their stifle?</P> <P>Dooming Darkness rulez!</P>

[MrGrimm9]

<DIV>Hello again.  Here is how to kill a good bruiser and a good conjuror.  First bruisers with control body (man this spell is uber).  The only thing that works is snare on them.  You have to make sure your snare is adept III (91% snare is really good)  Snare them and run out of range and wait for close mind to wear off.  It only has a 30 second duration so you can kite them around until it wears off.  Beware, they have sonic fists which teleport to you but it has a short range, shorter than snare.  Just make sure to stay at max distance of snare and keep running.  If they happen to get sonic fists off you have to get out of melee range before they can stun you.  Set your pet to not attack so it does not break snare.  Keep fearing them to see if control body is off.  When fear does land then you can either root them and stay at a distance and do the root/stun/nuke/root trick, or you can stun them and send in zombie and nuke and sprint/clicky wand them.  Just be sure to stay on the move and dont start the fight close to them.  I like to use tartons wheel right at the start of the fight to make sure I am not near them.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good conjurors are pretty rough as well.  Make sure to get your heat resist very high so BP and EV don't do too much damage.  Start the fight with lich OFF so you dont break fears and such.  Fear the conj right at the start then snare his pet.  Run away and then root his pet.  Get to him quickly and snare him, since lich is off it will not proc and break fear.  Then when the conj is feared and snared put lich on and stun him, then cast consumption put pet, dogs, zombie dot and nuke, when stun is about over do seism if you want to add an extra stun/interrupt and just keep on killin'  If you have time after the initial snare on the conj when he is feared you can do drawing of souls, and mark for extra debuffs, but make sure you have enough time before you do this.  Also after the conj is feared, and his pet is rooted, you could just send your pet on his pet, and nuke the crap out of it and kill it fast.  Scout pets dont have a whole lot of hp, sometimes I like to go ahead and waste consumption just to kill his pet extra fast so he is alone.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hope this helped and happy hunting.</DIV>

[MrGrimm9]

Also another note on casters.  If you do drawing of souls on them (-57str and int) MOST casters will be perma snared.  All the new DoF gear is gives power and int but no str.  Most casters are lucky to even have 57 str much less 70 or 80, also they carry around a 100 pound box to hold stuff in so they are near their weight limit.  When they are feared cast this and it will make it easier for your pets to eat them up.

[silentpsycho]

<P>This entire post is _awesome_!!!</P> <P>Can it be stickied?</P> <P> </P> <P>Synne 32 Necro - Oasis</P> <P>Dyre 32 Assasin (retired) - Oasis</P> <P>Balthazarre 33 Warlock (retired) - Oasis</P> <P></P>

[Za]

<blockquote><hr>umerr wrote:<DIV>So I'm dueling at the docks in Sinking Sands for gold pieces and I'm in the process of hustling a guardian.  I let the guardian beat me and a bruiser walks up to me and says "I hate to tell you this, but necros suck at duels".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So after I beat the guardian a couple times, I ask the bruiser if we wants to fight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I start the fight off with a snare and was far enough away that he never had a chance to stun me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I then root him.  Stun him.  Then lifetap him.  Reroot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just repeated that several times while he sat there helpless for about 1 minute.  lol.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Of course I had to say "sorry to tell you this, but necros OWN at duels".  hehe.</DIV><hr></blockquote>WOW he seems as clueless about his own class and dueling as he is about necros!

[Quitar]

Chanters are easy if you know one little secret they dont count on... Power tap pet right as fight start...the dot from power tap lasts 20sec and will keep pet from being mezzed =), they will have to waste time casting a  root...if they realize what is going on fast enough That will throw any chanter into a frenzy, MUHAHAHAHA and a master I assasin with the master II offensive buff doesnt need more than 20sec to tear any mage to shreads Have Fun <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> Maho 55 Ogre Necro / Nektulos Server <p></p>

[MrGrimm9]

<DIV>Very nice Quintar!, even I had not thought of that. :smileywink:</DIV>

[Quitar]

The best strategy I have found is to power tap right before fight then as fight starts use drawing souls adept III to reduce the str of the mage, this will root them in place and let pet go nutz...while they frantically try to mez it, and it keeps breaking <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> <div></div>

[Zave]

Master Lich and Ironwood clicky wand really made dueling melee classes easier! Get them if u can ASAP. One tip for bruisers, if they kill your pet with one hit (devastation fists) then they CANT use any combat arts for some seconds. So if bruiser uses this on your pet, u have enough time to snare/fear/root him!

[necro]

first of all i'm still new at this class so i have some questions for you <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> whats that "snare" that you are talking about ? and one more whats "power tap" ? hehe kinda noobie questions but cant deny i'm one <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[MrGrimm9]

<DIV>The snare we are talking about is our darkness line of spells.  Snare refers to any spell that reduces the target's movement speed.  This is useful because if melee classes cannot get to you, or cannot get away from you, it gives you a big advantage.  Power tap we are refering to is our leach line of spells, as in we take hp away from our pet, and convert it into power for us to use.  Since our pet is taking damage, the damage will break the mez on the pet.  A mez is an ability or spell that causes the target to remain helpless and stand and do nothing.  So needless to say, when our pet is standing doing nothing in a duel, it is really bad for us. </DIV>

[MrGrimm9]

<DIV>As more and more classes are seeing invis there are a few other things we can do at the start of a fight to get away from melees.  First most people forget about tarton's wheel.  Now this will only help you once in a while because of the long recast time but it can give you the edge when that monk thinks you won't get away because he has tobrins on.  If tartons is not up or you on in an enclosed area, you can have sprint on before the fight begins and run behind the opponent, then start casting your snare or fear, stop and finish casting.  You should have enough time to get this off before they stun you.  Some classes though have a ranged stun and this doesn't work <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  And if that initial spell gets resisted then you have to just start kiting. </DIV>

[MrGrimm9]

<DIV>Tired of those pesky enchanters or bards mezzing you then dealing with your pet? No problem! make sure essence shift is on your pet (so it will break the mez because the pet takes damage) Make sure you have manastone equiped before the duel, then use your manastone when you get mezzed.  You are taking damage which will break the mez.  Let the killing commence! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Elveira]

<P>Beat a Coercer 4 levels higher than me last night. The power tap trick on the pet worked like a charm. Then she tried mezzing me, which Lich promptly broke. She had me stunned for a bit, but once I got the rats off it was pretty much over. :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P> </P>

[MrGrimm9]

<DIV>Here are some refined Ranger/Bruiser Tactics.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Don't get me wrong, these classes are extremely tough to beat and you cant have a lot of resists and have to be good at your class, but they are beatable.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>First lets cover rangers since they are the hardest imo.  Of course you cannot start near them whatsoever.  They will stun you then move away and do storm of arrows and you are dead.  So do whatever it takes to get away, use tartons wheel, sprint at the start, run away and dont stop, just get away far enough to where they cannot stun you.  Then quickly cast fear.  Now here are a few key points.  A lot of the time fear will make them run out of the ring far away so you cannot cast spells.  So we have to stop that from happening, snare them.  Now here is the key, do NOT have lich on at this point.  If you snare them with lich on, you risk breaking fear and then bam, you are dead.  So start the fight without lich on.  Then once they are feared, snare them so they will not run far which will allow you to get off the rest of your spells.  Once they are feared/snared, cast lich.  Now they are set up for the kill.  Cast consumption and then start stunning them.  When stun is about 1 or 2 seconds from landing, send your pet in.  Now they are stunned, your pet is on them with consumption and you have 7.5 seconds to run havok.  I tend to cast dogs then siphon life, then deathly coil, then seism.  But do whatever you think is the most dps the fastest.  Some people dont bother doing seism and do infernal cloud just to try to kill them quickly.  As long as they don't resist fear and stun,  I have been successful with this stratagy.  However I think there is a bug in storm of arrows because yesterday I was dueling a ranger that did SoA right at the start, and even though I feared him, it went off and killed me anyway.  This happened 2 or 3 times so I am starting to wonder.  But anyways this stratagy does require a bit of luck because fear and stun cannot be resisted or you will most likely lose to a good ranger.  Also one last tidbit, make sure to have a totem of the butterfly because it sees stealth.  A lot of rangers will go stealth so you lose target and they can stun you/SoA.  If you are really serious by some poison resist potions and some mitigation potions.  And if you absolutely have to win the first duel I would get Unstoppable Soul up at the start, or Even Flayers soul to get less resists.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Whew okay, now for bruisers.  Of course as we all know they have an ability that makes them immuned to stun/fear/root/stifle for 30 seconds.  There are many ways to deal with this.  Make sure you control your pet this whole fight, the bruiser will hit you with ranged axes or something and when that happens your pet will attack him EVEN IF HE IS SET TO NOT ATTACK.  This is a bug and you have to manually tell him to stop attacking.  As soon as the duel starts once again get away from him.  Like all melee classes they can stun you quickly if you are close then it is over.  So sprint, tartons or just in general run and when the duel starts snare him.  Now here is two different stratagies to proceed from here.  One, you can just keep him snared and kite him, periodically casting fear to see if his Control Body has worn off, then when fear lands, proceed to stun/dogs/stench, siphon ect ect.. root, kill him.  The second stratagy is a little different.  Now with the update, when our first snare breaks, another snare lands.  So when the first snare is on, you can run away and cast siphon life to get some health back then keep running.  When our first snare breaks, another will land.  Then you can re-apply the first snare and they will stack, giving you a sort of fail safe.  So if one of the snares breaks, you will still have the other snare on him.  Rinse and repeat.  Keep running away and using siphon life and your clicky wand to keep your health up and just keep snareing him.  The key here is to control your pet, your pet will attack him every time he throws an axe or whatever at you so you have to make sure your pet does not go on a rampage and break his snare, because then you are done for.  Of course watch for sonic fists, just keep running in one straight direction if he teleports to you because even if he does get a stun off, you will be able to get away before he gets to you again (or should be able to in my experience anyways)  Just make sure to back your pet off when he teleports to you and keep running, he will be snared so much he will not catch up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also I have not tested this but writing this post and recalling my duels yesterday.  I was wondering maybe our two snares stack.  When our first snare breaks, another snare is in place and if you recast the first one you have two seperate snares on.  I seem to recall the bruiser running much slower than a 56% snare but I could be dreaming.. hrm will have to test that tomorrow.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Overall these two classes are very frustrating to beat and it is even more frustrating to see a conj duel a bruiser because his snare doesnt break with damage and he just kites him until he dies *grumble* But if we play our cards right we can still beat them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hope this helps  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by MrGrimm999 on <span class=date_text>11-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:20 AM</span>

[MrGrimm9]

<DIV>Just tested this with a friend of mine and he said it works.  When our first snare breaks, another lands on the target.  If you re-apply the first snare both snares will stack, snaring the target further.</DIV>

[Abazagorath]

<P>For me, the real trouble classes are berserkers, rangers, and illusionists.  Some classes get little spell lines that make them very diffcult (troubs who use lullaby can be pretty tricky, conjurors with their AE stifle, etc.), but any class CAN be beaten.  Unfortunately, against some classes for necros, it is based a little too much on luck versus skill, but here are some of the problems I have dealt with:</P> <P>Berserkers can do a massive amount of damage in a very short time, have good stuns, and (this may have been patched since I last dueled one) can prevent their own deaths.  This prevent death is the problem because it was dropping all snares/debuffs on them if their crown went off, so if they were charging at you while snared or whatever, you could get the kill shot, but then they would pop right back up *with their buffs still up, even though your debuffs are down* and punch you in the face before you had much of a chance to do anything else.  Plus, the berserkers in my guild are insanely equipped and talented, so they're that much harder to beat.</P> <P>Rangers just suck.  They can do such an incredible amount of damage plus go into stealth, so they can very easily one shot you.  The only way around it is to have a vision totem of the butterfly which lets you see stealth and MAYBE your assassin pet can interrupt their initial cast if you're lucky.  If you can get out of Storm of Arrows (stream of arrows?  Whatever the spell is!), then rangers can be beaten.</P> <P>The one class that I don't think any mage will be able to consistently beat is an illusionist.  Their spell shield has an ungodly high chance of reflecting the first 3 spells cast upon them (about 91% chance if memory serves).  If you cast a swarm pet, they attack you.  If you nuke, you get hit with it.  If you fear, you get feared.  Sure, you could try to cast some lowbie spells like Lightning Burst, but unfortunately, by the time that you would have a chance to cast 3 spells, the illusionist has you mezzed/stifled, swarm pets on you, and you're done.  The only time I have beaten an illusionist using spell shield was when I had the incredible luck of getting dispel arcane to land which cancelled their spell shield.</P> <P>As for the original post, the only problem that I have with brigands is that they get an ability which allows them to avoid hostile AEs if they are not directly targetted, so using seism off the bat won't work.  But I have figured out some decent ways of dealing with them.  First of all, using a butterfly totem allows you to keep them targetted when they go into stealth mode, so you can time your seism to be in line with the start of the fight, and since they'd be targetted, it will hit them.  Also, putting Consumption onto your pet is a great idea in case you get stunned.  The assassin pet will hit quickly, often interrupting follow-up shots, and the heal from Consumption could be enough to keep you alive through the stun.</P> <P>Our warden has figured out a combination of spells which has made him rather difficult to beat, but once I figure out how to beat him, I am sure that he, like all other healers, will be easy enough to kill.  Like someone said, the best PvPer is ultimately the best player, not necessarily the class.  That being said, even the best PvPer with the wrong class won't go far.  I just recommend that, if you're having trouble against a class, try finding a good person of that class and constantly duel them, ask which spell lines they're using, and try doing things differently yourself.  If the same fear, root, stun, destroy technique isn't working for you, try something else.</P> <P>/Yggy.</P>

[MrGrimm9]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Abazagorath wrote:<BR> <P>For me, the real trouble classes are berserkers, rangers, and illusionists.  Some classes get little spell lines that make them very diffcult (troubs who use lullaby can be pretty tricky, conjurors with their AE stifle, etc.), but any class CAN be beaten.  Unfortunately, against some classes for necros, it is based a little too much on luck versus skill, but here are some of the problems I have dealt with:</P> <P>Berserkers can do a massive amount of damage in a very short time, have good stuns, and (this may have been patched since I last dueled one) can prevent their own deaths.  This prevent death is the problem because it was dropping all snares/debuffs on them if their crown went off, so if they were charging at you while snared or whatever, you could get the kill shot, but then they would pop right back up *with their buffs still up, even though your debuffs are down* and punch you in the face before you had much of a chance to do anything else.  Plus, the berserkers in my guild are insanely equipped and talented, so they're that much harder to beat.</P> <P>Rangers just suck.  They can do such an incredible amount of damage plus go into stealth, so they can very easily one shot you.  The only way around it is to have a vision totem of the butterfly which lets you see stealth and MAYBE your assassin pet can interrupt their initial cast if you're lucky.  If you can get out of Storm of Arrows (stream of arrows?  Whatever the spell is!), then rangers can be beaten.</P> <P>The one class that I don't think any mage will be able to consistently beat is an illusionist.  Their spell shield has an ungodly high chance of reflecting the first 3 spells cast upon them (about 91% chance if memory serves).  If you cast a swarm pet, they attack you.  If you nuke, you get hit with it.  If you fear, you get feared.  Sure, you could try to cast some lowbie spells like Lightning Burst, but unfortunately, by the time that you would have a chance to cast 3 spells, the illusionist has you mezzed/stifled, swarm pets on you, and you're done.  The only time I have beaten an illusionist using spell shield was when I had the incredible luck of getting dispel arcane to land which cancelled their spell shield.</P> <P>As for the original post, the only problem that I have with brigands is that they get an ability which allows them to avoid hostile AEs if they are not directly targetted, so using seism off the bat won't work.  But I have figured out some decent ways of dealing with them.  First of all, using a butterfly totem allows you to keep them targetted when they go into stealth mode, so you can time your seism to be in line with the start of the fight, and since they'd be targetted, it will hit them.  Also, putting Consumption onto your pet is a great idea in case you get stunned.  The assassin pet will hit quickly, often interrupting follow-up shots, and the heal from Consumption could be enough to keep you alive through the stun.</P> <P>Our warden has figured out a combination of spells which has made him rather difficult to beat, but once I figure out how to beat him, I am sure that he, like all other healers, will be easy enough to kill.  Like someone said, the best PvPer is ultimately the best player, not necessarily the class.  That being said, even the best PvPer with the wrong class won't go far.  I just recommend that, if you're having trouble against a class, try finding a good person of that class and constantly duel them, ask which spell lines they're using, and try doing things differently yourself.  If the same fear, root, stun, destroy technique isn't working for you, try something else.</P> <P>/Yggy.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Did you read my post above about illusionists and spellshield and how to get around their mez?  If you cast devour health right before the fight starts, it prevents your pet from being mezzed or rooted.  That + consumption will cause them trouble.  If you use a manastone on yourself when they mez you, it breaks their mez, that is more than enough time to get off static pulse, lightning burst and some other lowbie spell, then you can fear them, back your pet off, stun them send in swarm pets and your pet and they are dead.  As soon as the fight starts just cast static pulse, + grisly mark or the low level snare, then lightning burst.  Wardens are easy when you just stack all your swarm pets on them, they will get constantly interrupted, do that + stun + seism and they are toast because we can heal ourselves with lifetaps as well.  Butterfly totem is a must with all those stealth classes.  Those zerkers you can just kite.  Get a clicky wand and fear them right at the start, send in all your pets and then stun them, then just sprint away while using your clicky wand and they are toast by the time you run out of mana.  You can even cast seism when you get far enough away and by the time they get to you they will get stunned and you can get in a free siphon then keep running and clicky wand.  Zerkers should be easy to beat.  The only really hard classes I have found are rangers, chanters and bruisers.

[Zave]

<DIV>Well well well, after last Live Update we have x10 more problems with DPS classes using dual wield weapons. SAme old bruisers HARDER to beat, berserkers and brigands [Removed for Content] us TOO fast. And.. we have new very difficult rival - ASSASSIN.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I find it easy to kill assassin even after last LU when SOE listened to whiners and present us good birthday present - NERF. If my fear lands on him hes dead, but if no i cant stand his hits anymore, one stun - dead necro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Invizing at start doesnt help, see inviz is what they have built in - we need to rely on totems which u cant have unlimited and which expire after loose.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seism is not that amazing as with berserkers or bruisers, somehow assasin can land his stun faster.</DIV> <DIV>So new question is definately -- HOW TO START DUEL what is best way to get far from them.... Please note im talking about a not n00b assassins, who know how to duel casters.</DIV>

[MrGrimm9]

<P>I agree.  Most good duelers now can get past invis with tobrins or a totem.  I have found the best way to start a fight is to act like you arent moving, then when the count goes to about 3, hit sprint and to start backing up, but then as they come to you, run straight past them and keep running.  Then start casting fear while you are running and then stop and finish casting fear.  This will let you try to get that one spell, if fear doesnt get resisted they are dead, if it does then you have to keep sprinting until you can try this again.  </P> <P>In an open area you can use tartons wheel to get away right before the duel starts, then fear and its over.  I have never had a problem with an assassin (maybe I just havent found a really good one to duel) or any scout class for that matter.  Bruisers are still tough of course.  Yes I agree it does suck that we use up a charge from our totem if we lose, so we just have to lose less <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>On another note, never ever try seism at the start with a melee class.  They usually have stuns that are < .5 seconds so you would literally have to be perfect in your timing for it to go off before theirs does.  Always try the run away method.  And if they dont have see invis, that as well</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by MrGrimm999 on <span class=date_text>11-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:56 AM</span>

[Notorious_G]

<DIV>What is the trick to get invisibility to work?  I dueled a friend & tried casting invisibility at begginning of fight before the duel actually starts & also tried casting it after the duel started.  It does not work.  Is there something I missing?</DIV>

[Quitar]

<div></div>Someone above was saying they were having trouble with the "other" summoners that like to run around (those silly conjurer's). A simple strategy I find that works on many of them, since their main pet does alot of damage....fear their pet. and send your pets after the master...if all he has on you is those dare land sharks...he is dead. LOL I bet they are sitting there mashing on the attack button wondering what is going on?!?!?! Makes me laugh. But do stay out of their aoe stun range. Maho 56 Ogre Necro/Nektulos Server <div></div><p>Message Edited by Quitar on <span class=date_text>11-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:05 PM</span>

[MrGrimm9]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Notorious_GIB wrote:<BR> <DIV>What is the trick to get invisibility to work?  I dueled a friend & tried casting invisibility at begginning of fight before the duel actually starts & also tried casting it after the duel started.  It does not work.  Is there something I missing?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>When you start a duel invisibility breaks.  The reason you cast it before the duel starts so they cannot see where you go and cannot start close to you.  A lot of people have see invis though and this does you no good.</P> <P>Quintar, that will work unless the conjuror starts off the fight with shattered land.  Its only a 2 second casting time and it stifles you for 5 seconds.  So if you fear their pet and start casting your dogs on them, you will be stifled by the time you get your spell off.  Then they will send their fishies on your and then they will cast stun.  A good conjuror will always start the fight off with stifle or their aoe stun.</P>

[evhallion]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MrGrimm999 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Notorious_GIB wrote:<BR> <DIV>What is the trick to get invisibility to work?  I dueled a friend & tried casting invisibility at begginning of fight before the duel actually starts & also tried casting it after the duel started.  It does not work.  Is there something I missing?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>When you start a duel invisibility breaks.  The reason you cast it before the duel starts so they cannot see where you go and cannot start close to you.  A lot of people have see invis though and this does you no good.</P> <P>Quintar, that will work unless the conjuror starts off the fight with shattered land.  Its only a 2 second casting time and it stifles you for 5 seconds.  So if you fear their pet and start casting your dogs on them, you will be stifled by the time you get your spell off.  Then they will send their fishies on your and then they will cast stun.  A good conjuror will always start the fight off with stifle or their aoe stun.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I think what Quintar means is stunned or stifled we can still control our pet (not dumbfires) We just can't cast.  If the conj pet is off running around feared our scout pet will make short work of the conj before the fear breaks on his pet or his dumbfires can kill us. All it takes is one good nightshade attack. However I have seen this stratagy fail before.

[Zave]

<P>well just a question</P> <P>did u know all our great things which required for defeating defiler/mystic with ENOURMOUS disease resist (4600-4900) are CURABLE by cure noxious...</P> <P>Yes yes, dogs and ghastly zombie cured by 1 click! and we waiste more mana to cast them then they to cure them <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <DIV>Say me this is bug <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by Zaveng on <span class=date_text>11-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:13 AM</span>

[MrGrimm9]

<DIV>Well for one thing you can do dispel arcane to get rid of thier buffs, which will lower thier mitigation a lot.  Then you can do you sta/wis debuff which will lower thier mitigation more.  As far as the curing thing, I think that is just the game mechanics, our dogs and stench are basically just long dots which can be cured, yea it sucks but I doubt they will change it.  You just have to keep them stunned a long time and interuppted by doing seism and constrict.</DIV>