must do dmg for exp - update 9/20 - how does this work in groups?

[cfteagu]

<DIV>From update notes 9/20:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Pet classes must do at least one point of damage to an encounter in order to receive experience and loot.<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Has anyone tested this?   I expect it works as it says, when solo.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Simple Question:</DIV> <DIV>What happens when you group?   If you don't nuke in a group, just heal your pet, while the rest of group kills the mob, then?</DIV> <DIV>  a) does the whole group not get exp?</DIV> <DIV>  b) do you not get exp?</DIV> <DIV>  c) or does everyone get exp because the rest of the group did at least 1 hp?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Advanced question:</DIV> <DIV>And what about 2 necros:  If both necros let the pair of pets kill the mob (so no nuking or dotting), then</DIV> <DIV>  d) do neither of them get exp, because each did not do at least 1 point of exp?</DIV> <DIV>  e) or does each get exp, because the "rest" of the group (the other pet) did at least 1 hp?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by cfteague2 on <span class=date_text>09-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:26 PM</span>

[Eirgo]

<P>I dont see this as being a big problem when soloing/grouping, maybe thats just my playstyle though.</P> <P>I think this was put in place to keep necros/conj from leaving their character on overnight in an area with aggressive mobs that are easy enough that your pet can just plow through them every respawn, giving you xp while being afk all night.</P>

[Viromage]

<DIV>But what is the point of doing this?  A Pet is a spell thus part of a Pet class's damage, has there been issues of the pet going off on their own killing stuff?  I don't get it....  Watch in SOE's superior way of fixing things now any pet class working on TS will gor NO exp because they are not doing damage.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ahh good point Eirgorn, didn't think of that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Viromage on <span class=date_text>09-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:17 PM</span>

[Eriol]

I made a thread about this in the combat forum already. The thread's link is <a href=http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=69504&jump=true target=_blank>here</a>.And it's much worse. If I'm right, if you send in your pet on a group of vvv mobs, and it kills one before you do anything to the group (very possible, as they go down fast), then you're screwed out of the exp from that mob even if you start killing things in the encounter afterwards.Will DEFINITELY be testing this out tonight.

[Viromage]

<P>Nice, what are we suposed to do lead the fight off with a AOE?</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[tonemand]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Viromage wrote:<BR> <DIV>But what is the point of doing this?<BR></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>People asked for EQ2 necros to be more like EQ1 necros, so the mandatory damage from a player got carried over in the process.  I am just glad it is not the 51% that it used to be in EQ1 - hahahaha</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as those groups of three and two arrow down mobs, that is most unfortunate, but I can already hear the "Go fight mobs that are appropriate for the power we gave you in LU#13" response.  I guess you either group for xp or you go fight mobs that won't die in two or three hits from your pet before you can get an AoE off.  To be honest, when I am fighting those types of mobs, I usually run in with the pet, and once it has aggro, my AoE gets cast, so it won't effect my playstyle at all.</DIV>

[dorothymest]

<P>They did this to prevent some people "cough cough" from leaving character on all night in say.. Feerott, on say.. a Bitter Bloom. It was the only aggro mob in its area and pets could easily solo it for a level a day just leaving character on.</P> <P>The problem is, if you send your pet, and then lead with your swarm pets.. if it dies before you cast something else you get no exp.. I usuallly do my pet, then swarm, then the new mini pet thing they changed our dot too, and those 3 things get no experience now, usually its all I would stick on a single mob then just heal the main pet. So basically its an efficiency nerf until they correct it.</P> <P>Swarm pets and the new limited pet should NOT count toward this. But thats Sony.</P> <P>How about if we SEND our pet instead of it ASSISTING us that also counts as way to make it yield exp, that fixes the problem. Or give us an free instant 1 dmg clicky spell with a 2 sec reuse. (we can call it Sony's Oversight even)</P>

[Sarkoris]

<P>I have already spoken to a dev re this issue and I believe the fix will be that a necromancer only has to damage any mob in an encounter for 1hp for experience.</P> <P>I don't have a big issue with this at the moment as I usually open with Torrential Plague while in lich mode on encounters after sending pet, this damages all mobs solving the problem. A resist could make life interesting though as has been said they can go down pretty fast.</P> <P>Sark.</P>

[Selantyr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sarkoris wrote:<BR> <P>I have already spoken to a dev re this issue and I believe the fix will be that a necromancer only has to damage any mob in an encounter for 1hp for experience.</P> <P>/snip</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>But how does this address Eriol's point, which he eloquently stated in another thread:</P> <P>"Yes but the point was that right now the way it awards experience is NOT all at the end. It awards it AS the mobs are killed one-by-one, then adds a bonus on after the entire encounter is killed (or killing single ^+ mobs with a recent update). So since it awards experience "as you go", what if your first action is purely sending your pet in on a group of mobs? This is actually the "normal" way of doing things. Now what if from buffing or purely burst dps (like from a scout or warlock pet) your pet takes down a mob before you've cast a spell at all? By the change you have NOT caused any damage to the encounter, but one mob is dead already. Do you get the experience the moment you damage something ELSE in the encounter, or is it lost forever?<BR><BR>That's the concern."<BR></P>

[Nibbl]

<DIV><FONT size=2> <P>The other day I grouped my 24 Illusionist with a 25 Necromancer, this occurred during the double experience DoF release window. I went from 24 to 29 with my Illusionist, while the Necromancer went from 25 to 27. I thought this was odd since the experience gain was noticeably different, I was gaining experience twice as fast. Something is going on with necros other then the 1 point of damage required for experience. Do necro pets affect the amount of experience gained?</P></FONT></DIV>

[Urbanna]

Eh....I'd be alright with this change as long as all fighter/priests/scouts now have to use at least 1 spell/CA to get exp. No more killing with just auto-attack. Wonder how that would go over heh <div></div>

[MrGrimm9]

<DIV> <P>But how does this address Eriol's point, which he eloquently stated in another thread:</P> <P>"Yes but the point was that right now the way it awards experience is NOT all at the end. It awards it AS the mobs are killed one-by-one, then adds a bonus on after the entire encounter is killed (or killing single ^+ mobs with a recent update). So since it awards experience "as you go", what if your first action is purely sending your pet in on a group of mobs? This is actually the "normal" way of doing things. Now what if from buffing or purely burst dps (like from a scout or warlock pet) your pet takes down a mob before you've cast a spell at all? By the change you have NOT caused any damage to the encounter, but one mob is dead already. Do you get the experience the moment you damage something ELSE in the encounter, or is it lost forever?<BR><BR>That's the concern."<BR></P> <P>__________________________________________________ _________________________________________</P> <P> </P> <P>I agree this is a HUGE problem and needs to be addressed ASAP.  We are losing out on xp in group encounters if our pet kills a mob before we can do any damage.  A common case would be a weak encounter with plenty of aoe mobs, you send your pet in at the start and it does shadestrike and unseen blade and kills a weak triple down arrow mob and then you guys finish up the encounter and you didnt get xp for that mob.  Add this up over the span of 10 levels to level 60 and I bet it would be a huge chunk of xp.</P></DIV>

[MrGrimm9]

"Pet classes must do at least one point of damage to an encounter in order to receive experience and loot."<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, what happens in a group if you are with some warlocks and a zerker?  A group of mobs comes, a lot of necros send swarm pets, dumbfire pets first with their pet,  mobs like the snakes in Vault of Dust get killed so rediculously fast by warlocks sometimes I cannot even do 1 point of damage in a fight.  Since I did not do 1 point of damage I do not get experience?  It is very common to fight groups of weak mobs that will get killed without you doing damage sometimes, it does not seem fair to single us out like this.</DIV>

[Arogati]

My biggest concern is, does this apply while grouped?  Easier mobs go down QUICK in groups, as we all know, and having to cast a damage spell on every encounter would be immensely tedious, not to mention a real nuisance if you're trying to conserve power.  While solo, I can understand this perfectly - they don't want people AFK leveling, and I really don't want to see that either. In addition, swarm/limited pets really shouldn't count against us here.  We have to cast them with each mob we want them to attack, so it's impossible to AFK level with temporary pets. Obviously, this fix needs to be fixxed.  Granted, missing out on the xp from one mob in a group of four tripple down's isn't much of a loss, but it can eventually add up.  And besides, it's the principal.  If we send in the pet, instead of it auto-defending us, we're obviously at the keyboard commanding it. That's their real concern - keeping 'sploiters from gaining free xp while they sleep or go to work/school.  While the current fix takes care of that, it makes things just enough of a nuisance to us honest players that it should be looked into further and appropriately retuned. <div></div>

[Tokam]

<P>I have posted about this elswhere, so appologies for repeating myself.</P> <P>I am, in my spare time, a provisioner. As such I do spend a fair bit of time harvesting the raws I need to cook things and gain tradeskill xp and my point would be this...</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>What happens to the xp from pathing mobs that aggro while I am harvesting?</FONT></P> <DIV>Currently I harvest by setting my tank or assassin pet on an aggressive stance and letting it deal with any aggro (Wasps in EL are a good example here) that stumbles across me while I get my 3 raws and start moving on to the next node. By this system I would have to stop harvesting and DoT the mob or, (again referring to the EL example) it may be that the mob is green or blue con and has been dealt with quickly by the pet before I have chance to do this. This possibility intimates that I would have to interrupt my own harvest in order to DoT the mob, and give myself the chance of discovering a chest drop.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In short this change has ruffled my feathers because it is going to prove distracting from my 'hobby' of harvesting, as I do not want to miss out on the chance of getting a chest drop from mobs. Again I have posted this comment elsewhere, but I'm not bothered by people exploiting certain areas of the game in order to gain adventure experience. If they are comfortable with that then great - its not for me but if people want to go to those lengths then Im not going to bemoan them the extra xp. I hope people can at least see where I am coming from in this post.</DIV>

[Eriol]

Thanks for quoting me from the other thread Selantyr. That is EXACTLY the worst concern.And I tested it last night: it's as bad as I thought, and behaving EXACTLY as I predicted. If a pet kills a mob before you do any DIRECT damage to the ENCOUNTER, then you get no exp from said mob.Now this doesn't apply to groups, though with multi-pets it MIGHT. I believe how the mechanic works is there's a flag that triggers on mob death that says "has any PC direct damage from melee or spells been done to ANYTHING in the encounter yet? If yes, then give exp, if not, then don't give exp." So once you've damaged ANYTHING, you get exp as normal, even if you haven't damaged a specific mob. But this flag works ACROSS people in a party, so as long as SOMEBODY does damage to a mob, the summoner doesn't need to worry about not having damaged something. It's whether the ENCOUNTER has been damaged by a PLAYER, not denying exp per player depending on whether they did damage or not. What I meant by multi-pets, I just meant that if there's multiple pet classes in a group and they both send in pets, and they kill something before anybody in the group acts, it acts just like it was just you, and the mob doesn't reward experience to anybody in the group.But basically it's a per-encounter flag of whether a player has directly caused damage to anything there, and not tracking "per person" who has caused damage for rewarding exp.Still crappy though.

[Moridian]

<P>Nothing new or unexpected  here. They had to fix this exploit years ago in EQ1, they have to fix it in EQ2. Just the way it has to be. Or else you, me, and every necro in the game finds a nice spot full of green agro mobs and we level while we sleep.</P> <P> </P> <P>Of course swarm/limited pets should not count here. And it should be 1 point per encounter, not 1 point per mob in encounter I guess, though I usually cast an ae at some point in the fight I guess.</P><p>Message Edited by Moridian on <span class=date_text>09-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:47 AM</span>

[cfteagu]

<P>Thanks for the test Eriol</P> <P>So, it requires us to pay more attention during solo, to make sure we land a spell thats not resisted, before the mobs die.  That's a bit of a pain but we will get used to it if we have to.</P> <P>It sounds like it's more of a problem in all-pet groups.  It's too bad; they finally fix the spell stacking problems that made it a problem for me and my brother to group (both play necros) and now our pets are more likely to cause us headaches, if we pair up.  We are better off soloing side by side to each other now =/</P> <P>Edit: (not to make ppl think I'm happy with this, it's still a problem, just not as broken as it might have been)They definately do need to change for swarm pets.</P> <P>If they can set an encounter flag when a player does damage, they should instead set an encounter flag when a player casts a spell.  That should be enough to stop AFK exp, and will make it less restrictive (works even if you get resists, works for swarm pets)  For bonus points they could also set the flag if a player turns on auto-attack, and if the player tells the pet to attack.</P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by cfteague2 on <span class=date_text>09-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:18 AM</span>

[Eriol]

<blockquote><hr>cfteague2 wrote:If they can set an encounter flag when a player does damage, they should instead set an encounter flag when a player casts a spell. That should be enough to stop AFK exp, and will make it less restrictive (works even if you get resists, works for swarm pets) For bonus points they could also set the flag if a player turns on auto-attack, and if the player tells the pet to attack.<hr></blockquote>Both good ideas. I had only considered the "flag when you tell it to attack" as that would catch MOST of it, but flag on spell STARTING to cast would be great too, though I suspect harder, as I'll bet the current code is "encounter-side" not "player-side", and so how do the npcs in the encounter know you're casting until they're actually hit with something?But yes, will make pet-heavy groups (well, all-pet grps are the only ones really) need to be much more careful. It IS affecting my gameplay, and I don't like having to "make sure" I do dmg before one goes down. Slight, but a noticable effect.

[MrGrimm9]

<DIV>If they can set an encounter flag when a player does damage, they should instead set an encounter flag when a player casts a spell.  That should be enough to stop AFK exp, and will make it less restrictive (works even if you get resists, works for swarm pets)  For bonus points they could also set the flag if a player turns on auto-attack, and if the player tells the pet to attack.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These are really great ideas.</DIV>

[MrGrimm9]

<DIV>So this is supposed to stop afk experiece right? The funny thing is conj can just put up a damage shield and set the pet to defend them, as soon as the mob hits them it takes at leats 1 point of damage and voila, xp when the mobs die.  Instead of preventing this, they just give us all these lame situations where we don't get as much xp.</DIV>

[gr8scott]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sulpeel wrote:<BR> <P>By this system I would have to stop harvesting and DoT the mob or, (again referring to the EL example) it may be that the mob is green or blue con and has been dealt with quickly by the pet before I have chance to do this. This possibility intimates that I would have to interrupt my own harvest in order to DoT the mob, and give myself the chance of discovering a chest drop.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I think your best bet here is to use your PBAE.  Since it emanates from you, you don't have to change your target in order to cast the spell.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>GS</DIV>

[Selantyr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sulpeel wrote:<BR> <P>By this system I would have to stop harvesting and DoT the mob or, (again referring to the EL example) it may be that the mob is green or blue con and has been dealt with quickly by the pet before I have chance to do this. This possibility intimates that I would have to interrupt my own harvest in order to DoT the mob, and give myself the chance of discovering a chest drop.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>A recent change appears to have disabled the ability to harvest while your pet is engaged in combat.  Yesterday, when attempting to harvest while my pet was taking down some weak green mob, I received a message like "how can you think of harvesting at a time like this" or something similar, and was not permitted to harvest until combat was resolved.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Azreaelle]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eriol wrote:<BR>Thanks for quoting me from the other thread Selantyr. That is EXACTLY the worst concern.<BR><BR>And I tested it last night: it's as bad as I thought, and behaving EXACTLY as I predicted. If a pet kills a mob before you do any DIRECT damage to the ENCOUNTER, then you get no exp from said mob.<BR><BR>Now this doesn't apply to groups, though with multi-pets it MIGHT. I believe how the mechanic works is there's a flag that triggers on mob death that says "has any PC direct damage from melee or spells been done to ANYTHING in the encounter yet? If yes, then give exp, if not, then don't give exp." So once you've damaged ANYTHING, you get exp as normal, even if you haven't damaged a specific mob. But this flag works ACROSS people in a party, so as long as SOMEBODY does damage to a mob, the summoner doesn't need to worry about not having damaged something. It's whether the ENCOUNTER has been damaged by a PLAYER, not denying exp per player depending on whether they did damage or not. What I meant by multi-pets, I just meant that if there's multiple pet classes in a group and they both send in pets, and they kill something before anybody in the group acts, it acts just like it was just you, and the mob doesn't reward experience to anybody in the group.<BR><BR>But basically it's a per-encounter flag of whether a player has directly caused damage to anything there, and not tracking "per person" who has caused damage for rewarding exp.<BR><BR>Still crappy though.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Ok, I feel a little better now... so, I'll just make a macro that casts the lowbie lightning burst spell and sends pet?</DIV>

[Nainitsuj]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Selantyr wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sulpeel wrote:<BR> <P>By this system I would have to stop harvesting and DoT the mob or, (again referring to the EL example) it may be that the mob is green or blue con and has been dealt with quickly by the pet before I have chance to do this. This possibility intimates that I would have to interrupt my own harvest in order to DoT the mob, and give myself the chance of discovering a chest drop.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>A recent change appears to have disabled the ability to harvest while your pet is engaged in combat.  Yesterday, when attempting to harvest while my pet was taking down some weak green mob, I received a message like "how can you think of harvesting at a time like this" or something similar, and was not permitted to harvest until combat was resolved.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I was harvesting just fine at 3PM EST while my pet was killing a highwayman.</DIV>

[schrammy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nainitsuj wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Selantyr wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sulpeel wrote:<BR> <P>By this system I would have to stop harvesting and DoT the mob or, (again referring to the EL example) it may be that the mob is green or blue con and has been dealt with quickly by the pet before I have chance to do this. This possibility intimates that I would have to interrupt my own harvest in order to DoT the mob, and give myself the chance of discovering a chest drop.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>A recent change appears to have disabled the ability to harvest while your pet is engaged in combat.  Yesterday, when attempting to harvest while my pet was taking down some weak green mob, I received a message like "how can you think of harvesting at a time like this" or something similar, and was not permitted to harvest until combat was resolved.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I was harvesting just fine at 3PM EST while my pet was killing a highwayman.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Correct That message will only display if YOU are in combat. F.I: mob has hit you first or you casted or whatever</DIV>

[Brickya]

<P>I have noticed two things that will cause me not to get experience.</P> <P>1) Send pet and rats in and do nothing else.  Doing nothing else falls in to two parts: pet and rats kill mob before you can do anything or you get aggro and turn to fight the aggro.  With Shadowy Assassin and Rats I have been unable to do any personal damage a lot on low greens because they die so fast.  Not much in the way of experience anyway but I lose the potential for drops.  I have also been aggro'd when pet and rats are attacking a mob, I turn to fight new threat, bring pet over to fight and by time I have that under control, rats will have finished off the first mob.</P> <P>2) The second part, and noticed this yesterday when I duo'd with a wizzie.  I sent pet in to pull mob back to us.  The wizzies range is a lot farther then mine and they would one hit the mob in some cases.  We were doing Orcs in Shifting Sands.  Even asking the person to hold off until I could get one hit in didn't matter.</P> <P> </P> <P>My solutions to the above problems (Solo):</P> <P>1) I will either nuke/snare pull the mob and I auto-melee attack the whole time.</P> <P>2) I don't send rats in on a weaker target (I have Adept 3 rats and Pets).  Rats I use only for mobs that will last long enough for me to get a dd or aoe in.</P> <P>3) I make the opening hit using my dagger or wand; melee.</P> <P>4) Use Ghastly Stench on fight.  With just pet and stench up I always get experience.</P> <P> </P> <P>My solutions to grouping:</P> <P>1) Aoe using locust swarm.  Pisses off the enchanter types but otherwise I don't get squat experience.  Was in group with a warlock, wizard, SK, Coercer and templer.  The groups of mobs coming in were half dead by the time I could do damage.  At least with the aoe I am going to hit something.  Since I keep implied targetting on MT, there are good chances that I won't get a DD off.  Of course we were fighting blue/white non-heroic groups.</P> <P>2) Run slightly ahead of the big nukers (Wizzies and Warlocks) and get a DD/Snare-DoT/lifetap in first.  </P> <P>3) I get in the thick of things and melee.  This pisses off the healers if my lifetaps can't keep up.  Those mob AoE hits for 500pts hurt  and is easily 1/3rd of my hps.</P>

[schrammy]

<P>Your group solutions will work in good grps where people now each other BUT.</P> <P>In random pickup grps they will not be worth JACK (pardon the french) </P> <P>80% of the random pickup tanks CANNOT get aggro of me. NOT EVER no matter what i do. (i dont know if they only use grey app1 taunts) There is a number of tanks on my friends list just so i can have notes on which tanks sucks (only IMO) so i dont grp with them too much.</P> <P>Casting aoe in a pickup grp=dead necro Especially when you try to cast that uber slowcasting spell BEFORE the nukers.</P>

[zo]

<DIV>Who will take a necro/summoner in there group now knowing that we have this problem?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This will be such a pain to groups.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As mentions above, what chanter of healer will want us in groups?</DIV>

[schrammy]

<P>Even better point. Grps with chanters will simply REFUSE us knowing this.</P> <P>The only fair thing at this point is to cancel that stupid rule when grp'ed. </P> <P>AND THIS ONLY till they find a real fix for the afk killing, because even when i solo there are lots of situations where i dont do DD to a mob. That is the reason why i have the pet+dumbfire and swarm. </P> <P>HECK THAT IS THE REASON WHY I PICKED THE STINKIN CLASS</P>

[legaleagle]

<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P>2) The second part, and noticed this yesterday when I duo'd with a wizzie.  I sent pet in to pull mob back to us.  The wizzies range is a lot farther then mine and they would one hit the mob in some cases.  We were doing Orcs in Shifting Sands.  Even asking the person to hold off until I could get one hit in didn't matter.</P> <P></P> <HR> <P> </P> <P>The wizzie does damage, so you will get exp.  The restriction on exp and loot only applies when the pet does all the damage to an encounter and kills it.  If any pc does a single point of damage to an encounter, you will get xp and loot. </P> <P>Personally, I don't see this as such a big deal.  When grouping, it doesn't apply because other players do damage at some point.  If I'm duoing with a healer and the healer is only healing my pet and not doing any damage, we shouldn't be hunting low greens that die so fast that I can't get a single damage spell off.  If I'm soloing, two things come into play.  One, I only have to do a single point of damage to an encounter in order to get xp and loot.  Think about that... how many encounters do you engage in which you don't do a single point of damage?  Maybe I'm just too impatient to wait for pet to solo the mob, but when soloing, I do damage to each and every mob I fight.  Pet attack, dumbfire pet(s) then a quick damage spell (usually siphon life).  If the encounter is a group of mobs, I throw in the aoe lifetap every time, and my pet has not failed to keep aggro a single time yet.   </P> <P>If mobs are dying so quickly that you don't have time to cast three spells, something is wrong and you are fighting the wrong mobs for xp.  If they die so fast that you can't get a spell off after casting rats, why cast rats in the first place?  Cast a dd or dot!   This should be as simple as re-arranging your spell progression.  The snare spell takes, what.. 2 secs to cast?  Throw that one on first every battle and you'll never have a problem.  Pet attack, Darkness, Rats, etc. </P> <P>/not trolling, just don't see this as a big deal since a) it doesn't really come into play in groups and b) I actually do damage to every mob I fight anyway. </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[wurtin]

<DIV>All of our dumbfire pets should count as us doing damage to the mob, or Rats should get a 1 pt unresistable DD attached to it or something like they currently don't count.  I often use Rats to kill off the first mob of a multi mob encounter quickly.  Now, I also generally use our PBAoE, but sometimes that first one is dead before I get around to it.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the goal is to stop a necro from farming exp while afk, then any spell that does damage should count.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Without having played with these changes, I can't really say how it will impact me, but I'll definitely be paying attention to my exp bar tonight.</DIV><p>Message Edited by wurtin on <span class=date_text>09-23-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:05 AM</span>

[schrammy]

<DIV> <P>i agree with wurtin. This would only be HALF the problem if the dumbfire would count as our dmg.</P> <P>As for legaleagle: I think you or me should do more research. If others in my grp do dmg and i do not; I STILL GET NO XP. you are mostly right about the solo part. But most of the people here are complaining that the nerf applies to grp situations as well.</P> <P> </P> <P>I found the "perfect" solution. Logout anyone who has not issued a command for 1 hour+. </P> <DIV> <P>That covers quite a bio break there <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. And if someone uses a 3th party program to issue a command every hour; FIND HIM and BAN him. Instead of screwing an entire class (not even a subclass but an entire class)</P></DIV></DIV>

[Tallika_Runwithbears]

Last night i lost out on a TON of xp last night before i noticed that the mobs that i killed just using Pet, rats and ghastly stench zombie and then healing my pet a little were giving me no xp.  This sucks balls.  those spells are the core of my combat system.  it isnt until i hit harder mobs that i start using the other dots likes bats and deaths coil.  or even my fast nukish dot.    and what about multi mob encounters.  i usually put rats and stench zombie on the toughest one so they last longer and use my pet to kill all the other mobs.  so im only getting xp for killing part of the encounter.   This is forcing me to remember to cast locust swarm just so i've done damage to every single mob. <font color="#ff6600"> <b>FIX THIS!!!!!</b></font><b>   </b>My dumbfire and swarm spells arent smart enough to be called pets. <div></div>

[Brickya]

<P>LegalEagle posted:</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff99>The wizzie does damage, so you will get exp.  The restriction on exp and loot only applies when the pet does all the damage to an encounter and kills it.  If any pc does a single point of damage to an encounter, you will get xp and loot. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ffff>I will go check again today if I can get a wizzie partner.  I will probably end up bugging this.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff66>Personally, I don't see this as such a big deal.  When grouping, it doesn't apply because other players do damage at some point.  If I'm duoing with a healer and the healer is only healing my pet and not doing any damage, we shouldn't be hunting low greens that die so fast that I can't get a single damage spell off.  If I'm soloing, two things come into play.  One, I only have to do a single point of damage to an encounter in order to get xp and loot.  Think about that... how many encounters do you engage in which you don't do a single point of damage?  Maybe I'm just too impatient to wait for pet to solo the mob, but when soloing, I do damage to each and every mob I fight.  Pet attack, dumbfire pet(s) then a quick damage spell (usually siphon life).  If the encounter is a group of mobs, I throw in the aoe lifetap every time, and my pet has not failed to keep aggro a single time yet.   </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ffff>Every once and a while my Adept III Shadowy Assassin will hit the mobs right away for over 1/2 their hps (Other times he can't hit for crap up front hehe).  This is mainly in Everfrost fighting wolves and bitterwinds.   The bitterwinds were dropping chest like crazy and the some of the wolves are aggro.  Why do greens where I may run into this problems you might ask?  Faction drops, spells, that nice 47% run speed SoW potion that drops from wolves, etc...  Trust me when I say that my Assassin has killed the bitterwinds before a DD finishes casting.  By the way I am 48th.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff66>If mobs are dying so quickly that you don't have time to cast three spells, something is wrong and you are fighting the wrong mobs for xp.  If they die so fast that you can't get a spell off after casting rats, why cast rats in the first place?  Cast a dd or dot!   This should be as simple as re-arranging your spell progression.  The snare spell takes, what.. 2 secs to cast?  Throw that one on first every battle and you'll never have a problem.  Pet attack, Darkness, Rats, etc. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ffff>I learned very fast not to use rats in EF fighting wolves, ice frights and bitterwinds.  Now I am mainly in Shifting Sands and surrounding zones so don't have that issue much.  Pet did do some tremendous up front damage on a spiderling once where I didn't get a nuke off.  Since I am using my assassin pet I usually: 1) Send Pet 2) Throw Heal on Pet and 3) Life Tap Mob.  I will modify that to add the snare as the second thing I cast.  Thanks for the tip.  Unfortunately I need to at least throw that heal in due to aggro and pet having lower health.  Been mostly in gator caves or doing orc camps in the middle of the zone.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff66>/not trolling, just don't see this as a big deal since a) it doesn't really come into play in groups and b) I actually do damage to every mob I fight anyway. </FONT></P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as the AoE and enchanters/healers not going to let us in groups once they figure it out.  I again will start off with snare if I can.  This was a pick up group I was referring to and they stopped and killed anything that moved on our way to PoF.  Of course once we reached PoF the group disbanded.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[lancekortesoja]

Just hit it and don't worrie <div></div>

[schrammy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lancekortesoja wrote:<BR>Just hit it and don't worrie<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??</P> <P>There are numerous detailed posts around here stating that we are UNABLE to hit them lots of times. That is the entire point of this dicussion.</P>

[Yor]

<DIV>The ability of certain personne to missuse some capacity of the game will always amaze me... and the ability of of ruinning the fun of others only by power mongerring a game not having any fun in leveling without being in front of the screen playing...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>well, this modification will modify o_ur way of playing necro.. thank you to those AFK lvlers...</DIV>

[Jaince]

I tested it a bit yesterday.I was grouped with a Brigant and a Shadowknight, myself I'm a level 26 Necromancer.I was using the Grim Terror pet.I tested a few situations.a) I did nothing the whole encounter, pet was on passive and I just watched. I got XP (message and the XP bar moved), both for each mob and the bonus XP for groups.b) I send the pet in, but didn't cast any other spells. Pet never got aggro. I got XP too.c) I sent the pet in and started casting. Again I got XP.So I'm not sure, but it would seem to me, the changes are merely changes when soloing.

[schrammy]

<DIV>Strange. There are reports stating none of the grp got xp when pets hit the final blow.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I myself have tested as well and here are my results:</DIV> <DIV>Solo:</DIV> <DIV>Pet kills, i do nothing                             = No xp</DIV> <DIV>Pet kills, i only heal                               = No xp</DIV> <DIV>Pet kills, i only heal and cast dumbfire = No xp</DIV> <DIV>Pet kills, i do damage                           = Xp</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In a grp:</DIV> <DIV>Others kill, i do nothing                         = xp</DIV> <DIV>Others kill, i send pet                            = No xp</DIV> <DIV>Others kill, i cast DB and pet                = No xp</DIV> <DIV>Others kill, i do damage                        = xp</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I tested this on solo mobs with some friends, only to test.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a normal grinding session in the Living tombs together with a 51 Pally and a 52 Healer (cant remember class) and Me (52 Necro)</DIV> <DIV>We were chainpulling spectres in the first room. (pet pulls) and after some time the pally earned 13% the healer 9% and i made a wopping 5%. All of us had vitality before the fights and still some vita left at the end.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So apart from all these tests there is still stuff wrong Summoner XP. Because i can assure you those spectres do NOT go down without me using my full spell arsenal and thus doing the required 1 point of damage.</DIV>

[Jaince]

Hm, Ok i admit i didn't watch who got the final blow.Not sure it was my pet.Will test this later again, trying to have my pet get the last hit etc.Hm... just an idea:There have been changes made to how encounter locking works. And if i remember correctly if someone from outside helps, the XP is somehow divided...Perhaps our pets count as "outside" and we share our XP with them. Perhaps just us, otherwise the whole group would notice it. Which would of course suck.

[Dastion]

<DIV>Made a thread on this where it is more likely to be seen, I'm also going to copy and post the bit about when you get xp, solo and grouped with this change to help others understand the frustration of it...please reply</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=70526" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=70526</A></DIV>

[Eriol]

<blockquote><hr>Dastion84 wrote:<DIV>Made a thread on this where it is more likely to be seen, I'm also going to copy and post the bit about when you get xp, solo and grouped with this change to help others understand the frustration of it...please reply</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=70526" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=70526</A></DIV><hr></blockquote>If you had looked for maybe 20-30 seconds, on page TWO (right near the top) of that forum you would have found <a href=http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=69504#M69504 target=_blank>this post</a> with a full discussion on this ALREADY happening.

[El Chupacabr]

<DIV>Necro's can already solo ^^^ mobs to make up for the loss!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/duck</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit:  In case a flame is incoming, that is a joke post but one I would expect to see in the spells and abilities thread before too long.</DIV><p>Message Edited by El Chupacabras on <span class=date_text>09-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:03 PM</span>

[schrammy]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> El Chupacabras wrote:<BR> <DIV>Necro's can already solo ^^^ mobs to make up for the loss!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/duck</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit:  In case a flame is incoming, that is a joke post but one I would expect to see in the spells and abilities thread before too long.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by El Chupacabras on <SPAN class=date_text>09-26-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:03 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>[Removed for Content]! That was a well kept secret <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> j/k.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seriously tho the soloing ^^^ mobs does NOT give a good outcome for me. Its either impossible due to mobs having ranged attacks (most named do) The ones that i can solo (regardless the color) dont seem to give that good xp.</DIV> <DIV>How are the others' thoughts on it.</DIV>

[Urbanna]

<span><blockquote><hr>schrammy wrote:<div> </div><div>How are the others' thoughts on it.</div><hr></blockquote>My thought is that a lvl 49 can't do it =/ I complain, but I don't have the balls to skip work and ignore my wife long enough to grind out the last 20% exp.....heh</span><div></div>

[Eirgo]

<P>My experiences are -</P> <P>While it is nice to be able to kill ^^^ mobs - it is not worth it for the xp, only if you need that update or need to  clear a path to where you are going.</P> <P>So far I seem to get the best xp gains off of multiple mob solo groups - just AE'ing them down.  These are quick kills and you still get the xp bonus from killing a multiple mob encounter.</P> <P>I also like to kill the heroic groups of 2+ mobs by rooting one while sending pet at another at the same time.  I'll fear the 3rd if there is one and root it, then burn down the one or two left on my pet and then take out the rooted ones one at a time.  This method takes awhile longer and doesnt seem to give as fast of xp as slaughtering solo mobs, but I enjoy it.  I get about 0.4% xp without vitality doing a group of heroics around lvl 50.</P> <P>So in summary </P> <P>XP -  Slaughter solos > Multiple mob heroic > ^^^ heroic</P> <P>Fun - Multiple mob heroic > Slaughter solos > ^^^ heroic</P> <P>So I usually try to find a place with solo mobs and multiple mob heroics and do a little bit of both.  Some good spots are near the Twin Tears and Bay of Anuk in SS, or the guards in MajDul (but I hate the carpet police) and some areas in the living tombs.</P>

[El Chupacabr]

<DIV>While I can solo 50^^^'s doing the classic pet tank, I find the risk to be way too high since at the end of the fight there is a good chance of my health being rather low from healing the pet and then catching agro.  Add to this the harsh downtime and the so-so xp for time and it just isn't worth doing except for bragging rights.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My experience has pretty much been the same as Nimmh's for xp... even and low yellows for solo mobs are probably the best mobs for xp'ing without a group.  Two and three mob groups are pretty good xp but as always the risk of missing one root can make this a bit of a tricky tactic to grind on since one resist could be really bad news (and it's not always easy to find a steady enough stream of groups far enough from each other to do this at a consistant clip).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, with convulse being just crap now (I haven't had one actually land in a couple days now) it gets quite a bit tougher to buy yourself those last few seconds if you catch the agro.</DIV>

[Lorelai_Seabree]

If its to stop afk bots why not have a flag set to see if pet defense comes into play and then go from there.

[legaleagle]

<P>Shrammy, I'll admit I didn't do any research after your request.  Sorry <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>If you indeed didn't get any exp in the groups, I'm troubled.  I'll test it out tonight and double-check.  I could have sworn I got the xp message when just sending the pet.   I'll just have to make sure I start every battle with Darkness now instead of /pet attack.  I wonder if I do damage to mob #1 of a group encounter if I'll get xp for the deaths of mobs #2- #4 if I don't do damage to them?  </P> <P>As for soloing heroics, I've found 45^^^ and 48^^ I can solo (at level 51) using the classic pet tank method.  I'm going to upgrade Lich to Ad3 and try out the stun/root method.  I've also found 43^^^ I cannot solo (that [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] Fire Toad at the entrance to the cave in Lavastorm!).  I don't understand this game sometimes.  </P> <P>As for the best experience, my new favorite is the Truth Preceptors and their pit fighters in Maj Dul.  They are all in a very small area, give decent loot (one Truth token per Preceptor, sells on the market fairly well and very quickly), and are level 54 - so they are yellow.  I believe there are 6 sets of spawn, and by the time I'm finishing off #6, the first one is spawning again, so there is almost no downtime and very very little risk of death.  Once you get the "Warning: You're about to be caught breaking the Law" message, log out and back in real quick to clear your danger status and back to killing.  </P> <P>Procedure: pet attack, dogs and darkness on Preceptor, Ghastly Stench and Death's Coil on pit fighter.  By the time I finish casting coil, the preceptor is dead and I can nuke and/or heal pet and lifetap the fighter down.  Each set of 2 mobs takes about 20 seconds to kill because I usually have to wait for the dogs and stench to refresh before taking on the next group.  </P> <P>I'm on Kithicor also with at least two of the outspoken necros here, so ..  don't steal my spot!! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <p>Message Edited by legaleagle97 on <span class=date_text>09-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:15 AM</span>

[Kassabba]

<P><SPAN>I don’t know how it is at the upper end, but I stopped playing my necro at Lvl 22 back over the summer.  I couldn’t get a group, I couldn’t solo very well, it was a pain to do any writs, so I started a Healer and had a good time with that.  Now its flip flopped, the healer is terrible soloing and my wards are nothing more than a red flag and a quick trip to the morgue.  The Necro on the other hand is turned out to be fun and functional once again. I’ve gone up to lvl 28 just since the LU.  It would have been more if I had known about the XP problem, I wasted several days with mobs that I wasn’t getting credit for and I wasn’t paying attention to the chat window, I just thought the XP was lousy, even when I was the only one in the party not dinging.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>I dont really think that they needed to do anything to change the XP.  Do I really care that Stanley in Portland is leaving his Summoner on all night to get XP? </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>No.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>No more than I care if he pays taxes, is kind to his landlady and donates to the red cross.  I don’t pay to race somebody else to Level 60, or 50 or 10 for that matter.  If Stanley wants to level that way, then bless him and his shallow character.  Yet in order to put Stanley out of business, (i have found that no matter what they do, Stanley will invariably find another way to achieve his exploitive playing goals) you have limited the rewards that I get for my style of play. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>If I play the entire week, a few hours a night, then over the course of that week I might miss 5% of the XP that I should have gotten.  Who's being penalized here, me or Stanley?  </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Even if I miss the XP on one mob, that’s one to (too?) many!  The cure should never be worse than the illness and unless they start giving Cash rewards for leveling, Stanley and his sort of players are not on my short list of things that are wrong with this game.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>Eliminate this 'fix'.  If its such a problem then use your vast resources and years of knowledge and expertise to implement a solution that doesn’t take the entire class down with it.  This is a pretty positive thread, good suggestions and well thought out arguments.  I would be disappointed if one of the 'People in the Know' didn’t put in a word here one way or the other.</SPAN></P>

[bluegod]

Here here! i fail to see how some schmuck afk leveling effects anyone else in the game other than him- or herself. so what if they lvl while sleeping. they're afk from the keyboard so it's not like they're getting all this loot and screwing up the market or anything.There have been some really good suggestions to solve the problem made in this thread and i have to wonder, do the devs even play this game? and if they do, do any of them play a summoner class?anodoel

[evhallion]

<DIV>Actually I'd like to know why just summoners are singled out. Any other class can do the same thing, we just have a built in pet to help. To show you what I mean, take any two classes (works best if one is a fighter type) group them, have them target each other and hit auto-attack. When one is hit both will auto-attack back. So it is the exact same thing it's just others need help from someone else to do it or just another account to 2-box. So where is the nerf for them?  If someone want's to afk-grind then they will. And actually the way I see it if they are not looting to flood the market with money or items who are they hurting? Does it matter to me if they were not at the keyboard to get their levels? If that mattered why would we have Exchange to buy characters, they weren't at the keyboard for those characters eaither. So afk or pay someone else to grind for you who really cares?</DIV>

[schrammy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> legaleagle97 wrote:<BR> <P>Shrammy, I'll admit I didn't do any research after your request.  Sorry <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>If you indeed didn't get any exp in the groups, I'm troubled.  I'll test it out tonight and double-check.  I could have sworn I got the xp message when just sending the pet.   I'll just have to make sure I start every battle with Darkness now instead of /pet attack.  I wonder if I do damage to mob #1 of a group encounter if I'll get xp for the deaths of mobs #2- #4 if I don't do damage to them?  </P> <P>As for soloing heroics, I've found 45^^^ and 48^^ I can solo (at level 51) using the classic pet tank method.  I'm going to upgrade Lich to Ad3 and try out the stun/root method.  I've also found 43^^^ I cannot solo (that [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] Fire Toad at the entrance to the cave in Lavastorm!).  I don't understand this game sometimes.  </P> <P>As for the best experience, my new favorite is the Truth Preceptors and their pit fighters in Maj Dul.  They are all in a very small area, give decent loot (one Truth token per Preceptor, sells on the market fairly well and very quickly), and are level 54 - so they are yellow.  I believe there are 6 sets of spawn, and by the time I'm finishing off #6, the first one is spawning again, so there is almost no downtime and very very little risk of death.  Once you get the "Warning: You're about to be caught breaking the Law" message, log out and back in real quick to clear your danger status and back to killing.  </P> <P>Procedure: pet attack, dogs and darkness on Preceptor, Ghastly Stench and Death's Coil on pit fighter.  By the time I finish casting coil, the preceptor is dead and I can nuke and/or heal pet and lifetap the fighter down.  Each set of 2 mobs takes about 20 seconds to kill because I usually have to wait for the dogs and stench to refresh before taking on the next group.  </P> <P>I'm on Kithicor also with at least two of the outspoken necros here, so ..  don't steal my spot!! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Message Edited by legaleagle97 on <SPAN class=date_text>09-27-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:15 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I didnt mean any offence by saying that further tests were needed eagle. Sorry if it came over that way.</DIV> <DIV>As for that Spot; WHERE WHERE WHERE? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sounds really good. I found a similar spot with coin guards close to their court. It is some kind of small courtyard and if you slaughter them all, some supervisor spawns. (guaranteed chest too). I did that only cuz i needed tokens, so i have not paid attention to XP. I'll be sure to check it tonight and post my "Adventures" here <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh yea i had that msg last night and zoned to the moon tower with 1% hp left when the carpet police came after me <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Eirgo]

<P>The spot Legaleagle is referring to is near the Truth Court, and there are 8 pairs of mobs there plus one more pair that spawn on top of the building that always drop a chest. (drops a crappy bracelet - but sells for about 5g I think).  I like it there and the coin place you refered to Schrammy - you can rack up about 14-5 coin tokens there every 10 minutes plus the chest drops from either the supervisor or the named.</P> <P>There are actually tons of mini ring events like this all throughout DoF that have a chance of spawning a named.  Two camps of lizzies (paired seer and another) at the southern Twin Tear, there is one with ghouls a lil south of the Bay of Anuk, and plenty more.</P> <P>I am definately enjoying the expasion and these dynamic camps, and now that Im finally at Ally faction with the Blades I think I will explore the PoF more.</P>

[Nainitsuj]

<DIV>I've not noticed any problems with xp gain.  But I'm usually in a group that's taking on stuff that lives for more than 3 hits.  Or I use my aoe spell off the bat when I solo.  The only problem I've noticed is I usually hit some hidden grouped mob and I have to fight those as well.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Nainitsuj on <span class=date_text>09-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:59 AM</span>

[schrammy]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eirgorn wrote:<BR> <P>The spot Legaleagle is referring to is near the Truth Court, and there are 8 pairs of mobs there plus one more pair that spawn on top of the building that always drop a chest. (drops a crappy bracelet - but sells for about 5g I think).  I like it there and the coin place you refered to Schrammy - you can rack up about 14-5 coin tokens there every 10 minutes plus the chest drops from either the supervisor or the named.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I still couldn't find this "Truth" spot Eirgorn. Is that the one to the right of the stairs? (on the left of those stairs there is some named champion as well)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If so, those mobs are awfully close to each other, aren't they social?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for pointing this out to me<BR></DIV>

[Eirgo]

<P>Here is a modified map taken from Ogaming where I point out the Coin spot and the Truth spot, hope it helps : )</P> <P> </P> <IMG alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com" src="http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y53/Eirgorn/majdul_small.jpg">

[schrammy]

<P>hmmm, we ARE talking about the same Coin spot but i am not sure of the truth spot.</P> <P>I will be harvesting it tonight thanks alot for this great tip.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>BTW: Are those losers social or not?  as in will they add if i pull on grp out of there?</P><p>Message Edited by schrammy on <span class=date_text>09-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:26 PM</span>

[Eirgo]

The truth guards are spread out enough that they wont add.  The pit fighters never go KoS (in my experience) and the Truth guards are staggered far enough apart that you wont get adds.  I think both areas are on a 9-10 min timer, so I was clearing one (whichever one wasnt camped) then doing a grifter quest and repeating.  Now I am max ally with the Blades and am exploring PoF more.

[schrammy]

<P>GREAT thx for the tip.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>TRUTH SOLDIERS, TREMBLE FOR ILKE IS COMING TO KICK YOUR ARSES !!!!!!!   <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Nosewar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jaince wrote:<BR>I tested it a bit yesterday.<BR><BR>I was grouped with a Brigant and a Shadowknight, myself I'm a level 26 Necromancer.<BR>I was using the Grim Terror pet.<BR><BR>I tested a few situations.<BR><BR>a) I did nothing the whole encounter, pet was on passive and I just watched. I got XP (message and the XP bar moved), both for each mob and the bonus XP for groups.<BR>b) I send the pet in, but didn't cast any other spells. Pet never got aggro. I got XP too.<BR>c) I sent the pet in and started casting. Again I got XP.<BR><BR>So I'm not sure, but it would seem to me, the changes are merely changes when soloing.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Same here. Only time I didn't get xp was when we were trying to camp and a green group aggro'd on us. We disbanded and I couldn't damage the mobs enough before the defiler killed them all, leaving me with no xp. /shrug</P> <P>1 dmg isn't that big of a deal. Changes like this are what happens when you have morons trying to exploit the system -- the rest suffer one way or another. So next time you see someone parking a pet afk on a green spawn, report him. That's what I do.</P>