Opinions on the "New" Necro...

[Dastion]

<DIV>First off, I want to say that I love it.  There are so many new things to discover now... anyways, I knew that my old thinking as far as cons go would probably be bad...and this might be the reason that people are saying we suck now.  So, I decided to go someplace where I tell the game what type of fight I'm looking for, and the game gives it to me.  The Splitpaw Arena.  I started with just the "Difficult" setting since I knew it was something I could do prior (I couldn't even touch the champion in the "Very Difficult" Arena).  It was easy...so I was satisfied with my tank's ability to solo.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I decided to try the "group" pets (assassin and warlock).  Since there weren't any groups available, I went to Harclaves.  Harclaves makes it where I can play as if I'm in a group.  And..wow, my pet kept taking aggro from me!  I had to stand ontop of him and assist HIM or else he'd start hitting something and suddenly his health would drop. I don't think I've ever had to resummon a pet in harclaves...and they both put my Adept III  tank pet to shame(they are Adept I).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then, I went to the very difficult arena..the first time I died.  I haven't yet gotten the hang of having to transfer my own life to nearly the degree that we do now...but I suppose it's a necroish thing to be able to juggle your health.  I only have apprentice I Draw Life (anyone find the app 2s yet?), so in fighting the Priest, Mage, and Fighter bit I accidently got brave and started feeding health off the Mage (who wasn't my pet's target)..which made her turn on me and with me tossing my health away like i was to heal him..well things just went bad. I came back a second time and stuck to a better tactic, rooting the fighter and killing hte priest first, and things went fine.  I even killed the champion without any problems.  One thing I noticed was that I had a very difficult time taking aggro from my pet, in fact, i only did it once. I cast the sta/wis debuff before my pet had managed to get hit.  I just used fear and by time it was done my pet had aggro again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Next, I went and did some duels...a wizard of my level never stood a chance.  Fear, summon pets...maybe toss in a stun and he's toast.  Add in lifetaps and I negated what damage he managed to do.  Mainly though, I had a lvl 50 tank stand up to my pets and examine their abilities.  Unfortunatly, he wasn't that bright, he just kept telling me the spell names and I only managed to get him to tell me a few things that hte spells did.  I know that the Warlock casts Grim Embrace..which is a lifetap that heals yourself and him.  Assassin has a poison that debuffs agility, and, I'm guessing that "Throat Slit" is a silence.  Most notable thing about tank pet was seeing him do a taunt.  Also, the pets seem to be following the NPC changes where they conserve their power.  I know it takes quite a bit for the assassin to run oop. The Warlock finishes it much faster.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My Opinions on the new things:</DIV> <DIV>Lifetaps</DIV> <DIV>The addition of some REAL lifetaps is nice.  Our old AE DoT lne with the pitiful health regen was..well, pitiful.  And we only had hte one lifetap...my apprentice I Draw Life does more than Pest Blast ever dreamed of.  I love being able to do 300 damage to everything around me and gain some life to boot.  You'll love the PBAE Lifetap in Harclaves.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>DoTs</DIV> <DIV>Seems more simple now, I no longer have to cast constantly just to keep my DoTs running.  I heard people say before that Pest Blast should have a longer duration, but if you look at the duration, cast time, and recast time...it's set up so that you can chaincast and keep it running without losing any time.  If it lasted longer than it does now, then chain casting would be inefficient since you're losing possible damage for the power you've spent.  I don't really see it being like it used to be, where you'd cast all of your DoT's on a mob even if you were only fighting one.  The group DoT only lasts 12 secs, and with Pest blast being how it is, it's probably better to chain HO's between recasting your dots and lifetapping as need be.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Snare</DIV> <DIV>Just what I was afraid of, it's a spell that's nice to have on your bar incase you need it..but they've made it suck that it's only a "Oh sh-with-an-it" spell.  It casts really fast, however, so it's a nice fall back get out of harm's reach spell if Fear is down.  Stun and Root take too long to cast if you're getting beat on. And if you're really dead set on kiting, I suppose you can just cast nothing but the snare and run around for awhile, lol.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Stances</DIV> <DIV>I love them.  Clawing of the Soul works for the Warlock's nukes for the offensive stance.  The fact that the defensive buff makes the pet heal himself and do damage to the target just increases agg that much more</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Healing</DIV> <DIV>First off, I'm unimpressed by the HoT line, it's barely a 1/1 health conversion ratio.  It doesn't even have a secondary effect on the pet while it's on.  Just transfers your health to him.  Granted, neither of our heals take power, but I'd like it if my pet only heal wasn't a worse ratio than my Exchange Life ability.  Exchange Life I'm in love with, I like the extra group utility.  It might be hard for healers to learn that it's okay for our health to get a little low and end up just costing the healer power..but they'll learn that we can heal ourselves and that we're generally okay as low as we're not getting beat on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So what do you guys think so far?  Before you complain go try out the splitpaw arena and see for yourself how well you can do.   I wish our tank pet still had the ability to hold his own on heroics in groups, but I guess crowd control is an enchanter's job anyways.</DIV>

[Gin]

<P>My main concern atm is the time it takes me to regenerate to full health now if im down to like 10%, and not in battel where I can lifetap. It so much reminds me the time it took in EQ1, or did I do something wrong, picked a wrong training option or so?</P> <P> </P>

[Dastion]

<DIV>Nope, you're right...I'm not used to having to wait on my health either. It currently takes a whole lot of our own health to keep our pet healed, hopefully they tweak the HoT line so that it's more efficient.  Mine currently takes 200 of my health over 20 seconds in order to give my pet about 260 health.  I did buy the Soothe Servant training option because I thought I'd be able to cast it in between refreshing the HoT (they are on the same timer) but I get the message "Effect wouldn't take hold" if my HoT is on the pet..atleast it's a really cheap 150hp heal though.</DIV>

[Fierce Ra]

It may be a cheap 150 hp heal, but just like you said it shares all the recast times as all of our other heals.  Also take into account that mobs are hitting the pet for well over that amount, like 1000hp of damage on some occasions.  All of our heals are terrible now since they took out NPC mitigation. 

[schrammy]

<P>Yea i know what you mean. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>What i find the easiest way to get hp up is this:  </P> <P>Find an easy mob, and tap the hell out of it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>With siphon life healing me for over 400 (excluding lich) i have no problems getting my and the pets bar up in no time.</P> <P>HECK i can chain kill faster then i could yesterday.</P>

[Smilins]

<P>so far stacking three pet buffs on tank pet seems to work well in combination with stun/fear cycle and some heals. i used this on a few tough npc's. our heals are however very inefectual overall , more testing must ensue to find a way around this . has anyone tried mixing it up a bit ? defensive stances on assasin and warlock? if so post the results ( in a clear and concise manner pls ) ! our aoe potential is awsome now . i dreamed of this day many a long night in time or god when i was forced to use Word line spells and praying for mass crits <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  concerning our newest additonal pet's , has anyone got parser info for the dmg therye doing? would love to se some !</P> <P> </P> <P>Stitches ( 50 necro , unrest )</P>

[Fierce Ra]

I don't think we are going to have any parses until the servers come back up.  The servers that are up and running people are playing and not posting.  Also none of our heals stack.  They are all on the same spell line.  The timers may vary but they don't stack.

[Deson]

Spending the week testing it before I state my final take. Did exactly what the OP did for testing  and like everyoe else I love these changes. Combat is smoother, faster, more intense and they added the bony grasp animation to our stun!. Healing in combat is a costly deal, especially with lich up. I find I cant really keep up with damage due to the cost of the heals on my health but in approprite white and yellow content ^ Im doinng just fine with no adds,I can take 2-3 no arrow white cons fairly reliably as well  with my Adept 3 Thrall and master 2 Grisly Brace and adept 3 Lich. Pretty much exactly as I hoped it would be. I'm just being nagged by being fully buffed and still having one conc left that I can't do anything with. <div></div>

[Urbanna]

<span><blockquote><hr>Dastion84 wrote: <div>Snare</div> <div>Just what I was afraid of, it's a spell that's nice to have on your bar incase you need it..but they've made it suck that it's only a "Oh sh-with-an-it" spell.  It casts really fast, however, so it's a nice fall back get out of harm's reach spell if Fear is down.  Stun and Root take too long to cast if you're getting beat on. And if you're really dead set on kiting, I suppose you can just cast nothing but the snare and run around for awhile, lol.</div><hr></blockquote>Bah...they nerfed it on the last day of beta....oh well, I have alot more room on my hotkey bars anyways heh</span><div></div>

[Dastion]

<DIV>Keep snare on your bar somewhere, it casts extremely fast so it's really nice for running away if something is on you.  Fear has a bit of a recast time, snare doesn't.  If something is on you and Fear is either resisted or otherwise not available, you can snare quickly, run a bit, and root it.</DIV>

[El Chupacabr]

<P>I'll reserve my final thoughts til next week sometime but as of right now:</P> <UL> <LI><STRONG>Lich's</STRONG> health drain is pretty harsh, without food your natural out of combat regen can't keep up with your lich losses.  Having said that, the spell is just massive in its current form and I absolutely love it.  The spell takes some getting used to since every time you cast a disease spell it sounds like you're getting hit by an enraged mob.</LI> <LI><STRONG>PBAoE's</STRONG> are great!  Assist your tank and cast one... even if the mob dies before the spell goes off it still casts since you only need a target to initiate casting.  Pull three groups and use this... simply amazing what it can do.  I was using it with a wizard in group last night and all the mobs would be fine then all drop dead.  What a fun series of spells.</LI> <LI><STRONG>Rats</STRONG> are parsing about the same as pre-revamp though that recast is a great change.  You can use 'em almost every fight, can't complain about that.</LI> <LI><STRONG>Stench of the Grave</STRONG> may be doing a touch less damage then it should.  I haven't tested an adept3 yet but the adept1 was doing about the same damage as the bloated rat alone.  I'll try out an adept3 in the next few days and see if he parses out better.  Great graphic, too.</LI> <LI>Tried my <STRONG>shadowy assassin</STRONG> adept1 against a little 54x2 mob and he parsed out at around 160 dps... again, pretty good.</LI> <LI><STRONG>Grims</STRONG> health is a little too low still as he still runs into melee range.  His windup is a little long, too, making him a kinda poor choice to use against groups of targets.  His damage seemed respectable but it takes him soooo long to get moving.</LI> <LI><STRONG>Exchange life</STRONG> is pretty good though you have to make a decision as to whether you'll be using this fairly early in the fight since if you weave in all your spells and this, you're catching agro.</LI> <LI><STRONG>Skinrot</STRONG> is pretty disappointing, technically it's a bit better than it once was but I'd like to see it's damage increased by 20% or so.</LI> <LI><STRONG>Necromantic symbol</STRONG> line now gives an essence of anguish if the mob dies while under the effects... I was concerned about the amount of these we needed come 52 but with symbol doubling (potentially) the amount of essences we get in a fight, i don't think it's a concern anymore.  These things breed like tribbles.</LI> <LI><STRONG>Horrific mark</STRONG> line lets you keep the tapped stats for the full duration of the spell, whether the mob is alive or not.  That's a great change since you'll need to be regening all the hp's gained by the increased stamina between fights.  <EM>Edit:  Though I don't like that this is toggleable, I'd prefer an overwrite when recast as opposed to losing your buff then getting it back... it has the same effect as using it on the mob, they're max hp's go way down instantly.  This also gives the OUCH sound effect when it lands, much like lich.</EM></LI> <LI><STRONG>Siphon Life</STRONG> is still a great spell, I just have no complaints about it.  In grouping, this and lich could keep my health at a decent level... early in fights my health could get a bit low but it was recovered so quickly it just didn't matter.</LI> <LI>We seem to run out of things to cast effectively.  Silly complaint, I know but once mark, rats, zombie, coil and bats are on a target you're just cycling between skinrot and siphon life.  Sure, there's other stuff to cast but for the most part you'll see all those lich hits from the initial salvo then you'll taper off a bit.</LI></UL> <P>That's all I can think of right now, my initial assessment is that these changes were great for the 50 necro's... not so much so the pre-35's.  Our damage is just amazing now (my paper parse is not far off on damage potential vs. single targets) though pickup type groups may not notice since it divides up in so many ways.</P> <P>There may be solo problems but I didn't really see them in my limited solo'ing last night (I've always been a group player)... it is a shame that we've lost the utility of being able to tank for a small group if need be (that's the real justification for dropping to tier 3 of the DPS chain, not because we're using a solo pet) but hopefully that'll be rectified once they figure out how they want pets to mitigate.</P> <P>So for now, the El rating is <EM>A big thumbs up!</EM></P><p>Message Edited by El Chupacabras on <span class=date_text>09-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:48 AM</span>

[Eirgo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> El Chupacabras wrote: <EDITED TO SNIP VARIOUS SECTIONS I DIDNT ADDRESS><BR> <P>I'll reserve my final thoughts til next week sometime but as of right now:</P> <UL> <LI><STRONG>Lich's</STRONG> health drain is pretty harsh, without food your natural out of combat regen can't keep up with your lich losses.  Having said that, the spell is just massive in its current form and I absolutely love it.  The spell takes some getting used to since every time you cast a disease spell it sounds like you're getting hit by an enraged mob.</LI> <LI><STRONG>Skinrot</STRONG> is pretty disappointing, technically it's a bit better than it once was but I'd like to see it's damage increased by 20% or so.</LI></UL> <P>So for now, the El rating is <EM>A big thumbs up!</EM></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>On Lich - at app1 it is only doing 4% hp damage to me a tick I believe, which is the same as out of combat health regen.  At least for me, when I am not in combat my health stays at the same percentage it was when I ended the last fight until I engage another mob.  I thought that I read somewhere that power (and I assume health) costs do not go up with spell quality so I assume that at ad3 it has the same 4% total health cost per tic.  I never use food, and dont seem to need to now, was just wondering if that will still be the case when I upgrade.</P> <P>On skinrot - I like the duration/recast on this spell, and coupled with the lich proc and HO damage, it seems like good consistent DPS for me</P> <P><BR> </P> <p>Message Edited by Eirgorn on <span class=date_text>09-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:50 AM</span>

[El Chupacabr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eirgorn wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>/snip</BLOCKQUOTE> <P>On Lich - at app1 it is only doing 4% hp damage to me a tick I believe, which is the same as out of combat health regen.  At least for me, when I am not in combat my health stays at the same percentage it was when I ended the last fight until I engage another mob.  I thought that I read somewhere that power (and I assume health) costs do not go up with spell quality so I assume that at ad3 it has the same 4% total health cost per tic.  I never use food, and dont seem to need to now, was just wondering if that will still be the case when I upgrade.</P> <P>On skinrot - I like the duration/recast on this spell, and coupled with the lich proc and HO damage, it seems like good consistent DPS for me</P> <P><BR> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I tested the lich cost by staying in temple street at the start of the night with no food or drink and watched my health... it sure didn't stay at 100% <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  Interestingly enough, I didn't see it go into the yellow.  Costs aren't s'posed to increase with tier, true though I'm sure I was losing more health then I was regaining.  The health cost can probably be offset with T1 vendor food or even summoned but there is a slight disparity between natural regen and lich cost.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I wouldn't change the duration or recast of the skinrot line either, it's just right in regards to timers though the max of 60 per tic at adept1 seemed a bit harsh.</DIV>

[Urbanna]

<span><blockquote><hr>El Chupacabras wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Eirgorn wrote: <blockquote>/snip</blockquote> <p>On Lich - at app1 it is only doing 4% hp damage to me a tick I believe, which is the same as out of combat health regen.  At least for me, when I am not in combat my health stays at the same percentage it was when I ended the last fight until I engage another mob.  I thought that I read somewhere that power (and I assume health) costs do not go up with spell quality so I assume that at ad3 it has the same 4% total health cost per tic.  I never use food, and dont seem to need to now, was just wondering if that will still be the case when I upgrade.</p> <p>On skinrot - I like the duration/recast on this spell, and coupled with the lich proc and HO damage, it seems like good consistent DPS for me</p> <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <div>I tested the lich cost by staying in temple street at the start of the night with no food or drink and watched my health... it sure didn't stay at 100% <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  Interestingly enough, I didn't see it go into the yellow.  Costs aren't s'posed to increase with tier, true though I'm sure I was losing more health then I was regaining.  The health cost can probably be offset with T1 vendor food or even summoned but there is a slight disparity between natural regen and lich cost.</div> <div> </div> <div>I wouldn't change the duration or recast of the skinrot line either, it's just right in regards to timers though the max of 60 per tic at adept1 seemed a bit harsh.</div><hr></blockquote>I picked 2 traditions (or whatever) that gave me 5 health per tick incombat each...and at the end of beta I was regening faster than lich could kill me at adept 1 without food =)</span><div></div>

[Eirgo]

<P>Hmm, I was watching it for awhile last night too, and I would go from 100% hp to 96% then right back up, over and over.</P> <P>I dont think I took any traits with extra hp regen (took all power pool increases).  </P> <P>The racial traits I took were (if memory serves) -</P> <P>Pitiful plea - aggro reducer</P> <P>+3% disease resistance</P> <P>+5 alchemy</P> <P>+5 agility </P> <P>I think ratonga get one racial with increased hp regen, but I believe it is on a timer.</P> <P>Oh well, maybe it has to do with quality of the spell, hopefully I will upgrade lich to ad3 tonight and get back with more info - maybe the costs are not stable and need /bugged.</P>

[Calib]

I'm a lvl 36 necro and I love the changes.  Before I loved the class but it didnt require much participation with the tank pet. Fights seem to be faster and we do more damage, and yet the pet holds much needed aggro.  You have to have more skill now and that makes it exciting.  You also have a reason to buy some good food and drink, although the down time is really not too bad. Just end the battle with some life drains. All pets now have good functionality and good aggro management.  sure you dont have a big nuke, but pile on a ghastly stench, some rats and 3 dots and watch amazing numbers fly off the handle. Instead of a big 700+ bomb (which would draw aggro probably), you see a TON of 30's flying at an amazing rate. Despite being a little more vulnerable, the class is more fun. Stay on your toes and enjoy! <div></div>

[prince_sd]

<DIV>My feelings about the new necro are very close to El Chupacabras but my rating is way lower since I am badly hit by the breaking of duo/ trio possibilities. Lets see</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>a. Lifetaps : Biggest change in revamp with siphon life and lich proc. I love it. </DIV> <DIV>Good +++</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>b. Spot heals: With lifetap is very good. Gives a great necro feel of playing with hp/ mana. </DIV> <DIV>Good ++</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>c. Assasin Pet:Very happy with this pet. Does nice chunks of damage in group. My master pet tends to pull aggro though. </DIV> <DIV>Good ++</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>d. Tank Pet: Big disappointment. He keeps aggro nicely now but tanks crap. As I have said many time earlier, our small group got badly hit.** Bad - - - </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>e. Warlock Pet: Does rocking dps. However, his hp is too low and runs out of power fast so not very useful.</DIV> <DIV>Bad - -</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>f. Dumbfire pets: Lower recast time and nice dps. Love to have all these pets running on mobs.</DIV> <DIV>Good +++</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>g. Lich: Does a bit too much health damage. Its fine out-of-combat but hurts in-combat especially if the mob turns on you and you are already hp depleted. Proc is nice.</DIV> <DIV>Good +</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>h. Rez: Is in-combat now but no teleport. With the big loss of debuff utility this seemed like a nice compensation till they got lazy and removed the summoning part</DIV> <DIV>Bad - - </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i. Debuff: Lost a big debuff utility from the death's coil and stench of grave line.</DIV> <DIV>Bad - -</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>j. Modstones: Mana return is measly. was cut by half. Returns only 150 mana over 20 seconds equivalent to 1 extra heal spell. However, charges were increased.</DIV> <DIV>Bad -</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i. DPS: Big boost but so does every other class. Rangers/ Assasins/ Wizards/ Warlocks are all doing more dps (on average).</DIV> <DIV> Neutral</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So overall Rating is Average. (equivalent to B in El rating :smileytongue<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>**Even yesterday we spent a lot of time looking for tank because the pet was no good and we lost a few shards. In the end we had our ranger in defensive stance tank but he couldnt keep aggro. Using this pet in small groups is highly frustrating especially if you have seen and are used to its good days. I would appreciate if fellow necros would help us in voicing this concern even if it doesn't affect them directly as it is very crucial for many of us.</DIV>

[El Chupacabr]

Average in El rating would be a "Meh" <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.

[borw]

<P>My thoughts on the new upgrade is that if your not level 50 with Lich you are in sad shape.</P> <P>My reasons behind this is that without Lich:</P> <OL> <LI>Your heals are too expensive to maintain since you cant tap enough to keep up with them.</LI> <LI>Your personal dps is rather low which causes you to rely on pet dps which is great btw.</LI> <LI>Our pet taps were pretty much ruined with this patch and you need lich to keep up unless you want the dread word downtime.</LI></OL> <P>My suggestions to make this upgrade rock for necros would be to increase the efficiency of our heals and give lower level necros a mini-lich spell.</P> <P>Currently the Heal spells have a 1.66 conversion rate at master II and this is way too low. The conversion rate should be at least 3 in my opinion and then it would be nice.</P> <P>My reasons behind the minilich is that this revamp was supposed to get rid of massive power jumps as you leveled but as you can see we have a massive power jump from 49 - 50.</P>

[El Chupacabr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> borwin wrote:<BR> <P>/snip</P> <P>My reasons behind the minilich is that this revamp was supposed to get rid of massive power jumps as you leveled but as you can see we have a massive power jump from 49 - 50.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Lich is in the same catagory as Ice Comet, Blazing Presence and Devestation... very high power special level 50 abilities.  Lich is a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] fine spell but it is also <EM>the</EM> necromancer spell.  I'm all for increasing the efficiency of the pet heals but Lich is your brass ring spell, the special one you look forward to for all your hard work and time.</P> <P>Necro personal DPS is not low at all, it's considerably higher than it used to be, even at the lower levels with the inclusion of a lifetap at earlier levels, another swarm pet and the coil line changing to 1s.  Downtime should be very manageable with a proper diet at all levels.</P> <P>The 50 "special" spells are intended to be massive power jumps for the classes and in the case of Lich, it sure is.<BR></P>

[prince_sd]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> El Chupacabras wrote:<BR>Average in El rating would be a "Meh" <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Lol. You know my El rating was A two thumbs up till 5 days before beta ended.</P> <P>The tank pet was aggroing and tanking like a champ. Was a bit too good and we were looking for a small decrease to balance things. Warlock pet had enough hps and the rez summoning part was being worked on by the devs. Snare line needed a fix to stop heroic mob kiting.</P> <P>Then in typical soe style.. "why fix things when you can break other things to balance" and my El rating dropped to "Meh" :smileywink:</P> <p>Message Edited by prince_sd on <span class=date_text>09-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:14 PM</span>

[Dastion]

<DIV>If you absolutely HAVE to do so..it is still possible to solo a ^^^..it's just slow and could end up killing you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  Send your pet at the heroic and let him get in what damage he can. Cast your dumbfire pets. When your main pet is low on health root the target and pull your pet off while casting if your dumbfires have not already despawned then you'll have to manually cancel them before rooting.  Now the target is rooted and hopefully hurt quite a bit.  Now comes the slow part.  Keep the target rooted and DoT'd, lifetap if you get hurt.  The root holds extremely well versus DoTs and only occassionally breaks...and if it does break there is a good chance the target will be feared, allowing you plenty of time to reroot.  If it isn't feared..then well, you have a fear of your own you can cast.  Your pet really doesn't do anything at this point.  So use him as a mana battery..the spell barely gives you any mana at all now, but this is gonna take awhile so you need all the regen you can get.  Just keep up the tactic and you have a dead heroic.  It's not easy, and it's not 100% reliable like snare kiting was, but it is possible and I did it on a blue ^^^ just today.</DIV>

[El Chupacabr]

<P>A little more testing with the tank pet in unconventional groups and I'll have to agree that he isn't performing as well as he should.  My understanding of the damage heirarchies was that when using the tank pet, we were in tier 3 along with bruisers and monks.  Since our utility in that configuration is the tank pet only, this leads me to believe we should be able to tank for a group almost as well as an avoidance tank.</P> <P>I'll say it again, I believe in a full group our zombie line should be able to tank for the group almost as well as an avoidance tank.  The taunt potential is there for this to happen but the mitigation is not.  The misconception that the tank pet is just for solo needs to go away, that utility pet is there to allow our group to go fight when we can't find a tank proper.</P> <P>These type assertions always draw alot of flames but look at the damage tiers and tell me why this shouldn't be the case?  Our utility isn't our four used concentration, it's our pets... monk types buff just as well as us and have just as many status effects, no reason we shouldn't be right behind them in tanking potential (well, technically we are but that gap needs to be closed up).</P> <P>Edit:  Also, those essences are now not no-rent as in they just keep stacking and stacking and stacking... I've got hundreds already, it's a nightmare (I'm glad for this change actually but boy do they stack up fast)!</P> <P>EditEdit:  This goes for conjurors as well.</P><p>Message Edited by El Chupacabras on <span class=date_text>09-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:57 AM</span>

[molinaro]

<DIV>My pet tanked for a group yesterday.   First in everfrost against Undertow  44^^^.  Group of 4, Necro 46, Ranger 46, Templar 42 Illusionist 44.  My adept 3 rotting thrall barely lasted against him as the MT.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>He did much better in Perma against the 46/47^^^ mobs, wihtout any downtime.  We added a 46 Guard at that time, so i didn't get to try him on the higher mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Make sure he's in a def stance and upgraded to adept 3 and you have your MT.  Not as good as a player, but certainly good enough to play.</DIV>

[soulrais]

<DIV>tank pet has far to hps for him to be a effective tank for us.  he should be able to hold agro and live long enough for us to widdle mobs down -- he should also have a reduced dmg .. if not ppl would use only him as they did before CC and dont want this.. Like the option of using differnet pets for once</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the resaon i think sony made his hps so low thow was if pet could last long enough on mobs would make us able to dump everything we had and take down mobs that were not intended for us to solo   as he is now i can solo the ^^^ sand giants just get harry if pet take big hit and his hps drop to fast</DIV>

[El Chupacabr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> molinaro wrote:<BR> <DIV>/snip</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>He did much better in Perma against the 46/47^^^ mobs, wihtout any downtime.  We added a 46 Guard at that time, so i didn't get to try him on the higher mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/snip</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Those mobs are notoriously weak for their level (pre revamp I could solo them without any snare tricks etc) and probably why he did ok there... the non-kromis are much tougher.  Undertow is a tough mob so maybe not a great guage of tanking ability but try out a group of four mobs and see what happens to that pet.</DIV>

[El Chupacabr]

I should also note that terror then rooting is working <EM>really</EM> well.  Those mobs wander away after a few seconds and once they're locked they're out of the fight for quite a while.  I'd like to see the recast on terror be a bit quicker but overall it's working quite well.

[Anim]

Hello fellow necros, my first time posting here. I hit 39 yesterday and have to say i am absolutely loving the revamp.  Even in group situations, my group mates are now LOVING me.  We are great at CC with our terror/root combo like El already pointed out. That being said, i was solo grinding exp yesterday in RV and was chain pullin bees and nymphs all with in +- 2 levels of me and rarely ran out of hp or mana.  You have to tweak what spells you cast and in what order you cast them according to the type of mob you youre fighting.  What i was doing was sending pet in, casting ONE of my dumbfire pets (stench or rats)...so that the other would be ready for next quick pull, next casting withering and swarm of bats, then graspping bones.  At this mob would be about half health, and i would cast mend bones, then pest blast....followed by Bloody Ritual. End result:  Mob dead, me at 95%power and health....pet at or near full health and ready for the next pull. With good strategy, power management is EASY.  im not missing my ability to regen power too much from pre revamp. I was able to kill solo non heroin mobs so fast and with such little danger, i didnt even bother looking for groups or heroics i could take.  The exp flowed nicely.  Also with more mobs dropping, come more chests dropping.  I picked up 4 pieces of armor off the bees, i dont know if its new since the expansion or what, because i havent been able to find it listed on any of the gaming sites.  Its "wasp wing" armor.  Similar to Fog Grimmin and Architects but with more INT!!!  The legs have 11 INT on them....very nice.  They also have a nice green color...which differentiates them from other armor of the tier.  So you dont look like a level 8 noob anymore.  Though still noobish.  heh. Well, short story long.....i liked my necro before....though i am absolutely in necro heaven now.  If only our snare line wasnt completely useless except for when running for your life. -Wayker DeLosMuertos, Befallen  Level 39 Necromancer <div></div>

[Nibbl]

<DIV><FONT size=2> <P>I like the new necromancer, I see many of the changes as good. My only concern right now is keeping the pet alive on more difficult mobs. Either the tank pet needs a little bump in mitigation or we need some better healing for the pet. But since the pet can actually hold aggro now and I’m dumping more damage, so mobs are dying faster. Maybe this was SoEs intent, not sure! Once I get all my pet buffs to adept III things might change. Right now I have RT adept III, and two of my four pets buffs are adept III. One on one I have no problems, but getting one add seems to drop pet health significantly faster (more then 2x). Overall I like the changes, would like to see a few tweaks, but Ill give it some more play time before I whine to much <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Edit:</P><FONT size=2> <P>One more item I thought of. Its extremely difficult to manage multiple health transfers and get it back with lifetaps, we should have the skills to manage this better IMHO. The balance in this area appears to be off. I shouldn’t have to wait until the end of battle to regenerated health, especially after I drop multiple lifetaps during the fight.</P></FONT></FONT></DIV><p>Message Edited by Nibblar on <span class=date_text>09-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:27 PM</span>

[Za]

<blockquote><hr>Ginan wrote:<P>My main concern atm is the time it takes me to regenerate to full health now if im down to like 10%, and not in battel where I can lifetap. It so much reminds me the time it took in EQ1, or did I do something wrong, picked a wrong training option or so?</P> <P> </P> <hr></blockquote>Food? They didn't change that. But now you can see how much HPs food give you back out of combat. If you eat paper you'll heal back in a minute or so... Eating something a little tastier can get you full in 1/2 that time

[Za]

<blockquote><hr>Fierce Rage wrote:It may be a cheap 150 hp heal, but just like you said it shares all the recast times as all of our other heals.  Also take into account that mobs are hitting the pet for well over that amount, like 1000hp of damage on some occasions.  All of our heals are terrible now since they took out NPC mitigation.  <hr></blockquote>only ^^ and ^^^ mobs hit for close to that much on a regular basis... which you probably should have a real tank dealing with.If my Inq did dps the way my necro healed, It'd be all good!

[El Chupacabr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> El Chupacabras wrote:<BR> <P>/snip</P> <UL> <LI><STRONG>Necromantic symbol</STRONG> line now gives an essence of anguish if the mob dies while under the effects... I was concerned about the amount of these we needed come 52 but with symbol doubling (potentially) the amount of essences we get in a fight, i don't think it's a concern anymore.  These things breed like tribbles.</LI></UL> <P>/snip<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Another update, this spell actually summons these no-drop items into groupmates inventory randomly (like the SK proc used to do).  Taking an extra inventory slots from groupmates is <EM>evil</EM> cus, you know, necros aren't nice...</P> <P>Ok, a bug but a silly one.  Watch for the purple skull showing up over group mates on mob death, happens fairly often.</P>

[Za]

Didn't they fix this a long time ago so only the caster gets the do-hickey? My necro gets stacks of them in a typical excursion... But I don't recall my other chars ever getting them when I group with a necro.

[evhallion]

Yep I have been seeing this as well. I'll see in group chat "what is an essence of anguish  and how did I get it?" Well it's easy enough to explain what it is, but where it came from had left me puzzled. Will /bug in game.

[firewolf]

I love the new necromancer. At 35, I can take on group of 3-4 level 32-33 fairies in EL. Pet is at 20% hp at the end of the fight but that is ok. Killing 3-4 blue con mobs give very good xp. After 2 hours killing turtles and fairies on the beach in relaxing mood (with harvesting and afk in-between) got 50% xp.  Better than a Harclave run.  Also can use AE lifetap nuke without taking agro from pet. The rats at adept 1 pretty much chew up a mob faster than I can nuke (without HO). I kill a bit slower than a wizard on blue con, but faster on 2-4 blue con mob. Pet heal and hp dump works nicely to keep pet alive on 4 blue cons. Always end fight with pet at 10-20% hp which is to be expected. The fight is intense and challenging. Have to use correct spells in order to kill all 4 before pet dies...) <div></div>

[prince_sd]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> El Chupacabras wrote:<BR> <P>A little more testing with the tank pet in unconventional groups and I'll have to agree that he isn't performing as well as he should. </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>*** Spells and Combat Arts ***<BR></FONT></STRONG> <BR>- Summoned pets now mitigate some of the damage done by blue, green, and grey opponents. However, summoned pets will be hit harder by encounters that con orange and red.<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here's a step in the right direction :smileyvery-happy:. Atleast we can duo blue ^^^ mobs now.</DIV> <DIV>Now if they only do the same for white/ yellow mobs then small groups of 3 and 4 with necro pet tanking will be feasible too. :smileyhappy:</DIV>

[El Chupacabr]

<span><blockquote><hr>prince_sd wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> El Chupacabras wrote: <div></div> <div></div> <p>A little more testing with the tank pet in unconventional groups and I'll have to agree that he isn't performing as well as he should. </p> <hr> </blockquote> <div><strong><font color="#ffcc00">*** Spells and Combat Arts ***</font></strong> - Summoned pets now mitigate some of the damage done by blue, green, and grey opponents. However, summoned pets will be hit harder by encounters that con orange and red.</div> <div> </div> <div>Here's a step in the right direction :smileyvery-happy:. Atleast we can duo blue ^^^ mobs now.</div> <div>Now if they only do the same for white/ yellow mobs then small groups of 3 and 4 with necro pet tanking will be feasible too. :smileyhappy:</div><hr></blockquote>It will be nice.  Prior to the change I could duo those ^^^ tarantulas with a templar, should be a bit easier now and allow a bit of a different load out to do those same mobs (it took both myself and the temp almost chaining the pet to keep him up but it was doable). Did quite a bit of parsing last night too in Spirits of the Lost and one of the DoF zones as well (upper level of the orc one, can never remember the name) and the outlook is pretty good.  AoE raidwise we can equal or just slightly exceed a wizards DPS once all swarm pets are factored in (I amend my ghastly stench being too weak comment, upgraded it to ad3 and it can do between 60 and 90 dps doing both single target crushing and AoE).  Group single target the wizzy outdamages us by just a touch though my group was high dps, if it's a low dps where we can get more use out of swarm pets it can probably equalize. This isn't to say that we <i>really</i> outdamage wizards, we <b>can</b> do more damage than a wizard in directly attributable damage.  Since wizards have a great damageshield and proc spells, those put them over our damage though it doesn't parse as such.  There's alot of griping about our damage output by some of the sorcerers right now but they still outdamage us, there's just no parsing program that will show it. And I caught my ad3 shadowy assassin with ad3 words of the wicked doing 220 dps last night <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. </span><div></div>

[Uglukson]

<DIV><FONT size=2> <P>I am mostly very happy with the way things have worked out, although if they are going to stop us kiting heroic mobs they should really cut down other classes' ability to do so. Guild coercers and dirges have been soloing even con ^^^ mobs for XP. Good luck to them while they can!</P> <P>For us though, at least one thumb up. I have a few thoughts, some of them cosmetic:</P> <P>Lich - every time you successfully land an offensive spell (and get the extra damage/heal), you appear to get hit, sound effect and all. This can be very disconcerting when you're worried about things like adds from the back creeping up on you. Party members also feel the same way about it - more than one time grouping deep in Pillars I have had tanks or enchanters rushing over looking for the add because it sounded like I was being hit. I am happy with the black cloud part of the animation, but do we really need it to look as though we've been hit? What's the purpose of this? It's really just confusing and should be changed to something a little less intrusive.</P> <P>Also, could just be my setup (I can't get my DoF maps to load at all), but my stupid skeleton giggle has disappeared whenever I jump. This was an invaluable method of annoying everyone. I want it back! Anyone else noticed this?</P> <P>Master I Lich has the same out-of-combat health situation - without food, you drop 4% then regen it back consistently. With an extra 378 damage per offensive spell landed - including our stun and root, not sure about snare or fear - I kill mobs significantly faster with this up. This makes something like Torrential Plague, which isn't that special on it's own, do near double damage per mob (and return a stack of healing to you). Very happy with it indeed, can't say enough good things about it.</P> <P>Using Accursed cloud on a group of heroics, I've noticed that often I get an invalid target-type message. It's not a stacking issue with other necros, but I have a feeling it might be a case of an enchanter mezzing one of the encounter mobs and that blocking it? I did not notice this happening when soloing, only grouped.</P> <P>Tanking, admittedly in an unusual group makeup with 2 healers, high DPS and no tank, seemed OK to me. 2 healers had absolutely no problems keeping my Adept III RT upright, and even commented on the large pool of HPs it seemed to have. It had no problems tanking yellow and low orange con ^^^ mobs in that group setup, admittedly with myself and another mage using stuns during each fight. It was consistently doing about 90-100 dps in those fights (adept I Grisly Stele, adept III Rending Frenzy). It isn't as good as a bruiser filling the same role for sure, but to be honest I think it's better than a stop-gap measure now. As mentioned ad nauseum, it's our pet heals that need the attention more than anything else.</P> <P>Something that's still annoying me is the fact that if one rat/dog dies, they all do. Positioning used to be all important with this spell previously, as 4 rats at Master level meant it was very easy for them to spread out around the mob and get killed. Still, I would rather 2 more powerful rats/dogs to lessen the possibility of this happening - and that's if they can't just make each rat/dog independent of each other.</P> <P>Recast on our stun is now fine, but I still think it could use a faster cast time. It's much improved though and my master Convulse is rarely resisted.</P> <P>The Grim Terror's spells seem to take a very long time to cast. For how fragile it is, it needs a boost in DPS, and increasing the cast time of it's spells would vastly increase it's usefulness in groups. Right now, my adept I Shadowy Assassin (using Words of the Wicked Master II) regularly out-parses my adept I Grim Terror on group ^^^ mobs that still die in under 20-25 seconds. The GT just doesn't get enough time to unload, and if it gets caught in the wrong spot, it goes splat. I think our DPS in groups is pretty good though, I was just getting out-parsed by an assassin with us both going pretty hard, and almost always beat a brigand and warlock (although warlocks seem to be suffering a bit now).</P></FONT></DIV>

[Viromage]

<DIV>For the last few days I have been going out with my wife and her 45 Inquis. or in mixed groups with no tank but using Master 1 Rotting Thrall in defensive buff.   My wife and I can take out ^^^ Heroic blue giants without my pet getting to 1/4 health and moderate healing.  In 3-4 person group (45 Inquis, 45 Temp, 45 mystic and me 50 necro) we take out the yellow ^^^ heroic raptors with RT tanking with little to no problems.  We have even had him tanking 2 of those at once (we did 3 when we got jumped but well that turned into a circus and that would have been to much for him and us to heal him had we lived).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I personally thought he was alittle to powerful at first but am enjoying my killing spree so I can't complain, hell he is a Master I he should be a bad [Removed for Content].  He is constantly stealing agro from our guild 50 guardian and holding his own on mobs (with offensive buff).  I have yet to fire up any of the other pets as I still love RT.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just my observations... </DIV>

[MisterE]

<DIV>Frankly i am very impressed with what they have done with the necro post DOF I only have adept III RT and warlock because of how bad teh scout pet was never got him adept III. but that will change soon need a ruby hehe.  Last night i took some guildies out for a romp in the sands a troub, assasin, ranger, myself, templar and inq all lvl 50.  We started slow, testing the RT's agro holding abilities on lvl 49 ^^^ mobs did well then i asked them to try to steal agro i mean lay it on the mob they did, agro held... was amazing!!! moved up the scale all the way to a lvl 51 ^^^ named.  The named just did too much damage to my pet could not keep up but no worries just throw fear on him chain him to the ground and recast pet rinse and repeat.  BUT not once did they yank agro from my pet.  Now this could be one of two things imo the level of the mob and the abilities of the group members (heck for all i know they have crap CAs).  They all parsed very well my parse was lower due to the rt pet and such but over all was a great experiance. By the end of the grouping session i had impressed the three scouts with my ability to hold agro where before it just did not happen.. U could sneeze at  the computer screen and the mob would agro me...  (picture that image i dare ya!) I look forward to being able to actually help my guild members with tanking lower level stuff so that the real tanks can take on the big mobs for the guild...  Over all there are some problems with maintaining pet health and what not but I will gladly sacrafice my pets ability to mitigate damage in exchange for him being able to actually do his job which imo is keep me alive...  As far as soloing goes well not to much herioc encounters for me any more.. but heck i just tank multi solo mobs all in all im a having a blast relearning my toon and adjusting to the changes it is nice to parse over 300 damage now and again  really cool i think hehe.  </DIV>

[Darkglow]

Necro's Own DPS, I have a level 55 necro on Shadowhaven and i can self buff 336 int. My Siphon Life is master 2 and does almost 1200 dmg (not including the extra 370+ dmg i get from lich master 1 ). I was messing around the other day and pulled a level 50 ^^^ heroic and ended up soloing him np. I have yet to find anything wrong with the new combat changes refering to necro's. On average i parse around 450 - 650 dps THANK YOU SOE!!!