More nerfs to necromancers

[prince_sd]

<DIV> <P>Edited: No point posting where people tend to get personal. You can read a similar thread in conjuror forum</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=29&message.id=6081" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=29&message.id=6081</A></P></DIV> <P>Message Edited by prince_sd on <SPAN class=date_text>09-11-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:23 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by prince_sd on <span class=date_text>09-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:31 PM</span>

[lancekortesoja]

that was fixed and "more nerfs to nercomancer"? More what are you talking about <div></div>

[Sonic X]

Umm yeah, but they also can't be hit by AoE's. It's always a nerf unless it says "you win the prize of best class in game". <div></div>

[prince_sd]

<DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by prince_sd on <span class=date_text>09-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:23 PM</span>

[merdo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> prince_sd wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ah, i didn't realize most people don't know about the Pet 0% mitigation nerf. Yes its true, pets have been nerfed to 0% mitigation and tank pets are useless now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And if thats now enough, take this</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>*** Combat Changes ***</FONT></STRONG></P> <P> </P> <P><STRONG>Necromancer changes:</STRONG></P> <P>- <FONT color=#ff0000>Revivication no longer attempts to teleport the corpse</FONT>. It is now a longer-range resurrection that can be used in combat. It still requires an Essence of Anguish.</P> <P>- Swarm pets no longer use a combat art.</P> <P> </P></DIV> <P>===========================<BR>Steve Danuser, a.k.a. Moorgard<BR>Game Designer, EverQuest II</P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I dont get your deal </P> <P> </P> <P>necroes atm on live are ok im happy </P> <P> </P> <P>necroes on beta are insain powerful you could nurf then by 50% and it would still be an upgrade to what we have now</P> <P>get a life/clue i dont even think you should post OMG delete your char suxxor were all gonna die because our pets do 4x more damage and they only want it to be 3x more then we do now </P> <P>NURF NURF NURF SUXXOR SUXXOR </P> <P>/WHINE we only do 3x more damage /cries </P> <P>oh boo hoo our out of combat rez is only gonna be a long distance IN combat rez now SUXXOR SUXXOR </P> <P>ya it should stay as it is now you thinkswarm pets that dont hit for much have no combat arts no mitigation and a a rez that only works out of combat at close range</P> <P>/boggle get a life man</P>

[Nagazch]

<DIV>Dont know what I'd do without you Prince...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for this great info which will surely go live ! After seeing these horrible nerfs I'm cancelling my 300 DoF pre-orders for sure ! SoE is really trying to make us look bad and ruin our class here on purpose. I heard they'll nerf Grim Terror down to 3 hp, remove power regen from Lich, all pets will have griffon animation, revive require 340 essence and all DoT's will now be DD's with same reuse as Lightning Burst !! We want plate armor and huge halbards.. NOW !!!11</DIV>

[quamdar]

that just sucks that they took away our summon on our rezz hope they increase the HP/Mana on the rezz since we losing the summon.  it is stupid as hell that app1 and master 1 would have no difference. <div></div>

[prince_sd]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nagazch wrote:<BR> <DIV>Dont know what I'd do without you Prince...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for this great info which will surely go live ! After seeing these horrible nerfs I'm cancelling my 300 DoF pre-orders for sure ! SoE is really trying to make us look bad and ruin our class here on purpose. I heard they'll nerf Grim Terror down to 3 hp, remove power regen from Lich, all pets will have griffon animation, revive require 340 essence and all DoT's will now be DD's with same reuse as Lightning Burst !! We want plate armor and huge halbards.. NOW !!!11</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>No need for personal attacks.<BR>

[prince_sd]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> merdorf wrote:<BR><BR> <P>get a life/clue i dont even think you should post OMG delete your char suxxor were all gonna die because our pets do 4x more damage and they only want it to be 3x more then we do now </P> <P>/WHINE we only do 3x more damage /cries </P> <P>/boggle get a life man</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>No need for personal attacks.<BR>

[Windego]

<DIV>Too bad some of you had to respond with sarcasm.  If you had any clue on how SoE typically handles changes in their games (eq/eq2 etc) you would realize that beta is the best time to get issues addressed, if you do not get the attention of the developers  in beta on issues, then typically you are relegated to pleading for months and months for changes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is alot of positive for us coming up in the combat changes/expansion.  That doesn't mean that everything that is wrong or broken still in beta should not be fought for to the last minute because some of you suddenly feel alot better about our class after observing it in beta or seeing some post from a random class complaining about overpowered necros.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some of you are going to be blown away at what Necromancers have become, but very big issues still exist (crappy tank pet, rez changed at last minute due to lazyness, graphic bugs etc etc) and should not be ignored, nor people chastized for trying to knock that fact into some of your skulls so perhaps you to can perhaps make our community a little louder and get some of the attention it deserves.  Kudos to those in beta who have had the time to provide feedback here to keep those not involved informed and keeping our issues at the top on the beta boards, putting forth the hard questions to the devs. That is the attention we need to generate to get our issues solved.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After the euphoria of our brand new class leaves in a couple of weeks for those who have not been exposed to beta, perhaps some of those that commented negatively can devote their time to help solve our problems, instead of accepting changes that should not have happened or adjustments that went to far.  Sad some are willing to settle for less.</DIV>

[merdo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Windego wrote:<BR> <DIV>Too bad some of you had to respond with sarcasm.  If you had any clue on how SoE typically handles changes in their games (eq/eq2 etc) you would realize that beta is the best time to get issues addressed, if you do not get the attention of the developers  in beta on issues, then typically you are relegated to pleading for months and months for changes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is alot of positive for us coming up in the combat changes/expansion.  That doesn't mean that everything that is wrong or broken still in beta should not be fought for to the last minute because some of you suddenly feel alot better about our class after observing it in beta or seeing some post from a random class complaining about overpowered necros.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some of you are going to be blown away at what Necromancers have become, but very big issues still exist (crappy tank pet, rez changed at last minute due to lazyness, graphic bugs etc etc) and should not be ignored, nor people chastized for trying to knock that fact into some of your skulls so perhaps you to can perhaps make our community a little louder and get some of the attention it deserves.  Kudos to those in beta who have had the time to provide feedback here to keep those not involved informed and keeping our issues at the top on the beta boards, putting forth the hard questions to the devs. That is the attention we need to generate to get our issues solved.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After the euphoria of our brand new class leaves in a couple of weeks for those who have not been exposed to beta, perhaps some of those that commented negatively can devote their time to help solve our problems, instead of accepting changes that should not have happened or adjustments that went to far.  Sad some are willing to settle for less.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes i do want summon corpse will it serve a purpose not really cept on vox</P> <P>yes swarm pets would be cool if they could tank bu tthats just plain stupid and they live through ae great fix</P> <P>yes our tank pets dont tank as well but neither do the real tanks fine there</P> <P> </P> <DIV>are these things wrong or are they fixed?</DIV> <DIV> does this post have a valid point                              NO</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>is it a waist of time to even reply yes</DIV> <DIV>why did i do it im sick of peopel bashing the fixes and possibly sending decent people away</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>did i comment negatively  NO i responded to a false statement</DIV> <DIV>do i feed back where it matters YES i do</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>DO you have a valid point or a blanket statement that seems to encompas all and make you right possibly at first glance</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You did not see me reply to a good post with a valid point i for one wnt to see this thread locked because it is total crap</DIV>

[merdo]

<DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=30&message.id=10119" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=30&message.id=10119</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>this is well thought out post that needs to be fixed</DIV>

[Windego]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> merdorf wrote:<BR><BR> <P><BR>Yes i do want summon corpse will it serve a purpose not really cept on vox</P> <P>yes swarm pets would be cool if they could tank bu tthats just plain stupid and they live through ae great fix</P> <P>yes our tank pets dont tank as well but neither do the real tanks fine there</P> <P> </P> <DIV>are these things wrong or are they fixed?</DIV> <DIV> does this post have a valid point                              NO</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>is it a waist of time to even reply yes</DIV> <DIV>why did i do it im sick of peopel bashing the fixes and possibly sending decent people away</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>did i comment negatively  NO i responded to a false statement</DIV> <DIV>do i feed back where it matters YES i do</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>DO you have a valid point or a blanket statement that seems to encompas all and make you right possibly at first glance</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You did not see me reply to a good post with a valid point i for one wnt to see this thread locked because it is total crap</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for proving my whole point.  No one is bashing fixes, they are commenting on the problems that are still there that effect their playstyle.  But some, like yourself take it upon yourself to crap on them for no reason.  Not everything is Rainbows and Happy Happy for some folks, while there are always "the sky is falling" types in any class, that doesn't mean their points are any less valid, and even then some folks don't come out of the woodwork and comment until a problem is affecting them, they aren't wrong either.  Lets look at your wonderful insight into our class, seeing as apparently you seem to hold many and maybe you can finally understand what the OP was getting at. <P></P> <P>So according to you, summoning a corpse while rezzing is only useful at Vox?  This has to be the most ridiculous statement I have read in a long time.  If you think that, then I really can't respond to that line of thinking.</P> <P>No one was saying they wanted swarm pets to tank, he quoted the whole Necro section of the patch notes and commented on the problems he had.</P> <P>It's okay that pets have 0 mitigation because PCs apparently don't have any either you say. Uh huh. </P> <P>So the soloer out there is fine that he has increased downtime so he can heal up himself and his pet after each fight?  </P> <P>Your fine with the healing line of spells that affect our pet do not scale at all with it's hitpoints now.</P> <P>Your fine that it is easier if your using the tank pet to summon a new one then to heal it if its 60% or less.</P> <P>You don't like having options when there is no PC tank around also I take it?  </P> <P>Your fine that our tank pet takes hits worse then currently on live and downtime is longer for a necromancer on 1 solo creature then other classes who are suppose to not have as much utility. Not to mention that the PC that this pet is supposedly "tanking" for is tanking better then the pet.  </P> <P>Your fine that once a necromancer has received snare/fear/stun that there isn't much point now to using the tank pet at all and in doing so at least 2 spell lines become useless.</P> <P>Next you are scared that if you bash the fixes decent people will go away.  Hmm now if there are problems, such as lower level Necromancers having a difficult time soloing due possibly to what I have outlined just above, wouldn't that also cause these decent people from going away?</P> <P>Maybe you need to re read my post and your nice wonderful comments in your first reply, if that is not being negative and attacking someone I don't know what is.  The OPs points were VALID.</P> <P>If you still don't understand the issues that the OP was trying to convey, or what I have basically told you in plain english above, let me know I will try again.  Just because it may not impact your playstyle, it doesn't mean it doesn't impact someone elses very much.  </P> <P>Please refute any of my statements above, as of 6 hours ago when I last logged into beta they were valid, if they don't impact you thats great, but they impact me, the people I play with and I'm not going to watch someone get critised and degraded because you don't play the same way or have no issues with what is going on.  Seems some folks are still in awe at what necromancers have become and are worried commenting on the problems that are still there will somehow erode what we have gained.</P> <P>I'm sure you are providing wonderful comments in /feedback to improve our class by those comments you posted above.<IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif" width=16 border=0></P> <P> </P> <P>PS I love this new sig.</P></DIV><p>Message Edited by Windego on <span class=date_text>09-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:40 AM</span>

[merdo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Windego wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for proving my whole point. <FONT color=#ff9966>eh? </FONT> No one is bashing fixes,<FONT color=#ff9999>OK then why did he say delete your char we suck now delete your char?</FONT> they are commenting on the problems that are still there that effect their playstyle.<FONT color=#ff99cc>Ya ok fixing something does effect your play style buy how does this include posting delete your char</FONT>?  <U>But some, like yourself take it upon yourself to crap on them for no reason</U>. <FONT color=#ff9999>No i responded to the crap your giving me crap for no reason i see no valid point in your post and yet you keep posting like you just have the last word in yet another YOU HAVE NO CLUE post</FONT> Not everything is Rainbows and Happy Happy for some folks, while there are always "the sky is falling" types in any class, that doesn't mean their points are any less valid,<FONT color=#ff9999>Yes it doesnt make their point less valid if the sky is fallin it is just this post had no point and still doesnt</FONT> valid if they and even then some folks don't come out of the woodwork and comment until a problem is affecting them, they aren't wrong either.  Lets look at your wonderful insight into our class, seeing as apparently you seem to hold many and maybe you can finally understand what the OP was getting at. <P></P> <P>So according to you, summoning a corpse while rezzing is only useful at Vox?  This has to be the most ridiculous statement I have read in a long time.  If you think that, then I really can't respond to that line of thinking<FONT color=#ff99cc>.NO that is the only place i could see summon corpse as a tool other then summoning people and i for one dont want to be a transit system</FONT></P> <P>No one was saying they wanted swarm pets to tank, he quoted the whole Necro section of the patch notes and commented on the problems he had. <FONT color=#ff9999>No he said they had 0 mitigation ? swarm pets were tanking mobs now they dont that is a fix</FONT></P> <P>It's okay that pets have 0 mitigation because PCs apparently don't have any either you say. Uh huh. <FONT color=#ff99cc>Its a balanced system my pet should not tank better then a guardian</FONT></P> <P>So the soloer out there is fine that he has increased downtime so he can heal up himself and his pet after each fight?  <FONT color=#ff66cc>Where are theses stats posted ? give me infornmation not speculation</FONT></P> <P>Your fine with the healing line of spells that affect our pet do not scale at all with it's hitpoints now. <FONT color=#ff99cc>Did you see how much our pets tap for with the new spells we have or do you think we should be pet clerics? I like the fact that at ap1 my pet can tap with every hit for 125 and heal me for 125</FONT></P> <P>Your fine that it is easier if your using the tank pet to summon a new one then to heal it if its 60% or less. <FONT color=#ff99cc>Yes and i have always done that that is a bonus of our class our pet is low on health summon another other classes cant do that when their tank is at 60% this a bonus</FONT></P> <P>You don't like having options when there is no<FONT color=#ff99cc> </FONT>PC tank around also I take it?  <FONT color=#ff99cc>Um now your making stuff up I solo very efficiently on live now i soloed cythan 2 days ago for a monk that couldent even hit the mob is this balance?</FONT></P> <P>Your fine that our tank pet takes hits worse then currently on live and downtime is longer for a necromancer on 1 solo creature then other classes who are suppose to not have as much utility. Not to mention that the PC that this pet is supposedly "tanking" for is tanking better then the pet.  <FONT color=#ff99cc>On live they dont scale so ofcourse a ap2 is gonna tank worse and an even con mob is supposed to = you not just your pet that is what i loved about this game in eq1 i had 3k hp and the mobs i killed had 30k hp and i could solo them it was stupid. 1 mob even con should be the same as you and your pet not the same as your pet that effectively makes you a group mob and unbalanced. YES I WANTED THIS REVAMP TO MAKE THE GAME FUN /flame me if you like its stupid now that i can solo even con 50 heroic mobs this dont hurt other player because all classes shoudl beable to solo the solo mobs and 0 classes solo the heroic even con mobs, green/grey heroc mobs yes blue/white/yellow/orange/red NO takes the fun out of the game</FONT></P> <P>Your fine that once a necromancer has received snare/fear/stun that there isn't much point now to using the tank pet at all and in doing so at least 2 spell lines become useless. <FONT color=#ff99cc>its called play style some snare some tank</FONT> </P> <P>Next you are scared that if you bash the fixes decent people will go away.  Hmm now if there are problems, such as lower level Necromancers having a difficult time soloing due possibly to what I have outlined just above, wouldn't that also cause these decent people from going away? <FONT color=#ff66cc>constructive posts are welcome i never siad people didnt have valid points quit acting like i bash people with a brain</FONT></P> <P>Maybe you need to re read my post and your nice wonderful comments in your first reply, if that is not being negative and attacking someone I don't know what is.  The OPs points were VALID. <FONT color=#ff99cc>I responded at the same level as the poster because im sick of the sky is falling syndrome and yet you had nothing to say about his DELETE YOUR CHAR post</FONT></P> <P>If you still don't understand the issues that the OP was trying to convey, or what I have basically told you in plain english above, let me know I will try again.  Just because it may not impact your playstyle, it doesn't mean it doesn't impact someone elses very much. <FONT color=#ff66cc>we suck delete your char lol ya constructive and it was a wonderful well thought out post good job defending it </FONT></P> <P>Please refute any of my statements above,<FONT color=#ff66cc>DONE</FONT> as of 6 hours ago when I last logged into beta they were valid, if they don't impact you thats great, but they impact me, the people I play <U>with and I'm not going to watch someone get critised and because you don't play the same way or have no isdegraded sues with what is going on</U>. <FONT color=#cc0033>Haha you picked the wrong post to defend buddy it just made you look stupid he even deleted his post because it was so bad</FONT> Seems some folks are still in awe at what necromancers have become and are worried commenting on the problems that are still there will somehow erode what we have gained.</P> <P>I'm sure you are providing wonderful comments in /feedback to improve our class by those comments you posted above.<IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif" width=16 border=0> <FONT color=#ff66ff>well lets see i /feedback the master strikes quite a few times so they would up damage, /feedback our heals and now we have a wonderful pet tap,/feedback stacking issues, /feedback power drains now fixed, /feedback buffs not scaling and lower level ones being better, /feedback rats killing spells on mobs now fixed, /feedback when rez was broke now fixed </FONT><FONT color=#cc0033>and yet you bash me w/o any clue of who i am or what i have done good job you should defend this posted you would make great friends</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>PS I love this new sig. <FONT color=#ff66cc>[Removed for Content] i wouldent waste my time with anything you posted in my sig</FONT></P></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Windego on <SPAN class=date_text>09-12-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:40 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>PS i wont reply to this post again it is total crap and it needs to die<BR> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by merdorf on <span class=date_text>09-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:16 AM</span>

[prince_sd]

<DIV>Thanks Windego for sticking out your neck for me. I really appreciate it. </DIV> <DIV>Don't mind Merdorf, he doesn't play on test or beta and what he is saying is all hearsay. Well if he plays he doesn't have a single post in those forums.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The thing that really boggles me is merdorf thinks that me bashing "nerfs" that he thinks are "fixes" is not right but his personal bashing and low blows and comments like "get a life... delete your character suxxor" are all in good spirit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I never said delete your character. I said soe might as well delete necro class with their nerfs. There is a huge difference there and if you can't see it I can't help you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, I raise a big hue and cry like the sky is falling but you know what, 5 years of experience in playing soe games has taught me that they only listen if enough people raise a voice.</DIV> <DIV>If you don't believe me then look that I raised a lot of voice over our 2 new spells, consumption and charm undead. Consumption and drawing of souls are now fantastic spells. Would soe have fixed them if we had not raised a voice ? I doubt it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I posted app2 spells in this forum the day new spells were announced, i posted good/bad/ugly of the changes. Infact I have been very positive about the changes. But this last patch changed a lot of things. I have tried to bring information to this forum for those who are not in beta/ test and in return I get personally bashed. Frankly, i don't need to take this [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot].</DIV><p>Message Edited by prince_sd on <span class=date_text>09-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:31 AM</span>

[prince_sd]

<DIV>Well you wanted stats so here they are as an example to help clear what I was trying to say.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Remember, just because you can still kite heroics using your "technique" which many of us call an exploit doesn't mean everyone should. I always duo with a healer friend and now I can't. We tried it. Both of us were spamming heals and still the tank pet in defensive stance went poof and we all died.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Copied and pasted from my beta forum post:</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>I duo with a healer in Live all the time so I decided to do it here. </EM> <DIV><EM>0 Pet mitigation has made heals absolutely useless. </EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Example:</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Compare Player Tank (SK/ Pally) + healer duo : Tank has 50% mitigation. He has 6000 hp</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM>NPC hits 500, 250, Healer heals 600, NPC hits 500, 250, healer heals 600 ......so on .... win with tank at 50% hp</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Necro + healer duo: Pet has 0% mitigation. He has 7500 hp.</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM>NPC hits 1000, 500, Healer heals 600, NPC hits 1000, 500, healer heals 600 .... so on ..... pet dies, necro dies, healer dies.. revive.</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>You cannot compare our pets to NPC's and give them 0% mitigation. Compare them with sk's and player character tanks because thats how we use them. And unless you balance all heals (our own and healers) specially for healing pets you have just broken a classic duo.</EM></DIV> <P><EM>Message Edited by prince_sd on <SPAN class=date_text><FONT color=#756b56>09-11-2005</FONT></SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:44 PM</SPAN> </EM></P></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV>

[prince_sd]

<DIV>And to my other post about rez not summoning corpse. Its a big big nerf. If you don't see it and think its only for vox i can't help it. But right now the beta forum has tons of necromancers completely disillusioned with SOE just because of this change. I chose to post it here too to keep everyone informed and got a "get a life suxxor" in return. Thanks merdorf.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you want to know how summoning corpse can be useful play a eq1 necro. People used to pay 100's of pp just to get a necro summoning rez. You could summon across a zone. Now imagine if you die on naggy run and a necro brings you back to life with shards at sol eye zone in saving you hours and hours of shard recovery runs.. That was the power of eq1 necro summoning rez. I am not saying i want money for it or that it will be this powerful but we were all hoping that the summon would work over a huge range especially master spells. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But because soe couldn't fix it they just removed it. I call that a big nerf to utility. You may not but thats your view and there was no reason to personally bash me for that.</DIV>

[vorek]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I do play on test and on beta.</P> <P>I do NOT have any posts in the forums there. I use in game reports to speak to the devs.</P> <P>The 0% for mitgation is only against combat arts and not auto-attack. (Or at least that is how it is intended according to the developers).</P> <P> </P> <P>I, personally, think they should make it impossible for ANY class to solo a blue or higher HEROIC mob. That is designed as group content...period. Now....the con change shows ^^ as really strong and ^^^ as heroic. A ^^ should take a LOT of strategy and luck with few resists. Frankly, I have had NO problem taking even cons with no arrows and even cons with ^ on beta....none. My pet does JUST fine.</P></BLOCKQUOTE>

[prince_sd]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> vorek wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The 0% for mitgation is only against combat arts and not auto-attack. (Or at least that is how it is intended according to the developers).</P></BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Did you try duoing with a healer ?<BR></P> <DIV>Developer comment</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=168428" target=_blank><SPAN>EJdev</SPAN></A><BR><SPAN>Game Designer<BR>Posts: 103<BR>Registered: 03-09-2005 </SPAN><BR><IMG height=8 alt="" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/p.gif" width=150 border=0><BR><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=168428" target=_blank></A><BR> <P><SPAN>Reply <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=dofma&message.id=2527#M2527" target=_blank><FONT color=#c8c1b5>4</FONT></A> of 25 </SPAN><BR><IMG height=6 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/p.gif" width=1><BR><SPAN>Viewed 449 times<BR></SPAN></P><IMG height=1 alt="" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/p.gif" width=1 border=0><BR>Pets act as other NPCs. Their hitpoints were proportionally increased like all other NPCs when physical/magical mitigation was removed.<BR> <SPAN><SPAN class=date_text><FONT color=#756b56>09-10-2005</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>05:08 PM</SPAN> </SPAN></DIV><p>Message Edited by prince_sd on <span class=date_text>09-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:02 AM</span>

[merdo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> prince_sd wrote:<BR> <DIV>Thanks Windego for sticking out your neck for me. I really appreciate it. </DIV> <DIV><U>Don't mind Merdorf, he doesn't play on test or beta</U> <FONT color=#cc0033>I just logged out of test buddy boy</FONT> and what he is saying is all hearsay.<FONT color=#cc0033>Proves my point you have no idea what your talking about</FONT>  Well if he plays he doesn't have a single post in those forums.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The thing that really boggles me is merdorf thinks that me bashing "nerfs" (<FONT color=#cc0033> you call them nurf i call them balance</FONT>) that he thinks are "fixes" is not right but his personal bashing and low blows and comments like "get a life... delete your character suxxor" are all in good spirit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I never said delete your character. <U>I said soe might as well delete necro class with their nerfs</U>.<FONT color=#cc0033>Ya this is constructive</FONT>  There is a huge difference there and if you can't see it I can't help you. <FONT color=#cc0033>thanks for clarifying this so all necroes should play other classes then is what your saying?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0033></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, I raise a big hue and cry like the sky is falling but you know what, 5 years of experience in playing soe games has taught me that they only listen if enough people raise a voice.</DIV> <DIV>If you don't believe me then look that I raised a lot of voice over our 2 new spells, consumption and charm undead. Consumption and drawing of souls are now fantastic spells. Would soe have fixed them if we had not raised a voice ? I doubt it. <FONT color=#cc0033>Oh you fixed those great job man i thought it was the constructive people who actually /feedback</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I posted app2 spells in this forum the day new spells were announced, i posted good/bad/ugly of the changes. Infact I have been very positive about the changes. But this last patch changed a lot of things. I have tried to bring information to this forum for those who are not in beta/ test and in return I get personally bashed. Frankly, i don't need to take this [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. <FONT color=#cc0033>Then dont act like the village idiot and you wont get treated like one</FONT></DIV> <P>Message Edited by prince_sd on <SPAN class=date_text>09-12-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:31 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <p>Message Edited by merdorf on <span class=date_text>09-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:24 AM</span>

[merdo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> prince_sd wrote:<BR> <DIV>And to my other post about rez not summoning corpse. Its a big big nerf. If you don't see it and think its only for vox i can't help it. But right now the beta forum has tons of necromancers completely disillusioned with SOE just because of this change. I chose to post it here too to keep everyone informed and got a "get a life suxxor" in return. Thanks merdorf.<FONT color=#cc3333> I do want summon corpse but it isnt a big loss if we dont get it is my point we dont have it now </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you want to know how summoning corpse can be useful play a eq1 necro. People used to pay 100's of pp just to get a necro summoning rez. You could summon across a zone. <FONT color=#cc3333>ya and all your gear is under usually an uber mob thanks to eq2 we dont have that problem anymore.</FONT> Now imagine if you die on naggy run and a necro brings you back to life with shards at sol eye zone in saving you hours and hours of shard recovery runs.<FONT color=#cc0033>it takes me 8 min to make the run with my fury 12 min if i use my self invis and if you die with naggy guess what revive point is real close</FONT>. That was the power of eq1 necro summoning rez. I am not saying i want money for it or that it will be this powerful but we were all hoping that the summon would work over a huge range especially master spells. <FONT color=#cc0033>the way it will work is everyone will get naked die and youll summon them to naggy for the next 30 min</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But because soe couldn't fix it they just removed it. I call that a big nerf to utility.<FONT color=#cc0033>If we dont have it how is that a nurf?</FONT> You may not but thats your view and there was no reason to personally bash me for that.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I played eq1 for 5 years <A href="http://www.trialityguild.com/" target=_blank>WWW.trialityguild.com</A> this was my guild thx very much i left eq1 i dont want it back<BR> <p>Message Edited by merdorf on <span class=date_text>09-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:30 AM</span>

[merdo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> vorek wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I do play on test and on beta.</P> <P>I do NOT have any posts in the forums there. I use in game reports to speak to the devs.</P> <P>The 0% for mitgation is only against combat arts and not auto-attack. (Or at least that is how it is intended according to the developers).</P> <P> </P> <P>I, personally, think they should make it impossible for ANY class to solo a blue or higher HEROIC mob. That is designed as group content...period. Now....the con change shows ^^ as really strong and ^^^ as heroic. A ^^ should take a LOT of strategy and luck with few resists. Frankly, I have had NO problem taking even cons with no arrows and even cons with ^ on beta....none. My pet does JUST fine.</P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Thank you for a well thought out constructive CORRECT post ***** 5 stars for you

[merdo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> prince_sd wrote:<BR> <DIV>Well you wanted stats so here they are as an example to help clear what I was trying to say.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Remember, just because you can still kite heroics using your "technique" which many of us call an exploit doesn't mean everyone should. I always duo with a healer friend and now I can't. We tried it. Both of us were spamming heals and still the tank pet in defensive stance went poof and we all died.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Copied and pasted from my beta forum post:</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>I duo with a healer in Live all the time so I decided to do it here. </EM> <DIV><EM>0 Pet mitigation has made heals absolutely useless. </EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Example:</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Compare Player Tank (SK/ Pally) + healer duo : Tank has 50% mitigation. He has 6000 hp</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM>NPC hits 500, 250, Healer heals 600, NPC hits 500, 250, healer heals 600 ......so on .... win with tank at 50% hp</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Necro + healer duo: Pet has 0% mitigation. He has 7500 hp.</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM>NPC hits 1000, 500, Healer heals 600, NPC hits 1000, 500, healer heals 600 .... so on ..... pet dies, necro dies, healer dies.. revive.</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>You cannot compare our pets to NPC's and give them 0% mitigation. Compare them with sk's and player character tanks because thats how we use them. And unless you balance all heals (our own and healers) specially for healing pets you have just broken a classic duo.</EM></DIV> <P><EM>Message Edited by prince_sd on <SPAN class=date_text><FONT color=#756b56>09-11-2005</FONT></SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:44 PM</SPAN> </EM></P></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>your trying to say our pet alone = a SK that is unbalancing necro + pet should not = a sk for tanking thats waht sk do </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>priest + necro + pet do not = sk + priest + wizard and should never. i play a necro but if wizzies could nuke better and got a pet i would would be mad so why should our pet tank like a sk and we heal like a priest?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let me rephrase this i feel it is half complete</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think our tank pet should beable to tank but thats what he does tank pretty close to a sk or who ever but they do 0 dps only taunt and be very good at it but even then a sk still be better and we should beable to nuke but not go nuts so any class should kill similar mobs in about the same time.</DIV><p>Message Edited by merdorf on <span class=date_text>09-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:43 AM</span>

[prince_sd]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> merdorf wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>The thing that really boggles me is merdorf thinks that me bashing "nerfs" (<FONT color=#cc0033> you call them nurf i call them balance</FONT>) that he thinks are "fixes" is not right but his personal bashing and low blows and comments like "get a life... delete your character suxxor" are all in good spirit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0033>Then dont act like the village idiot and you wont get treated like one</FONT></DIV></DIV> <P>Message Edited by prince_sd on <SPAN class=date_text>09-12-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>08:31 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Message Edited by merdorf on <SPAN class=date_text>09-12-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>09:24 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>So you can call it a fix but I can't call it a nerf ? Why is it only that your opinions are right and constructive ?</P> <P>I have my opinion that our tank pets should tank and should be able to tank heroics when duoing with a healer. I don't think we should be aggro kiting without a pet. But that's my view. I didn't stop you from posting your view, did I ?</P> <P>Who's acting like a village idiot ?. I posted my view and you posted yours.</P> <P>You are the one who posted this<BR></P> <DIV><U><EM>merdorf wrote:<BR><BR></EM></U> <P><U><EM>get a life/clue i dont even think you should post OMG delete your char suxxor were all gonna die because our pets do 4x more damage and they only want it to be 3x more then we do now </EM></U></P> <P><U><EM>/WHINE we only do 3x more damage /cries </EM></U></P> <P><U><EM>/boggle get a life man</EM></U></P> <P>So if I post my views about the class, I am a village idiot but you can personally bash me and poke fun of me instead of posting your views about the class and that is constructive feedback. Wow just Wow.</P></DIV><p>Message Edited by prince_sd on <span class=date_text>09-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:53 AM</span>

[merdo]

<DIV>hence i replied on your level man</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And just fyi since you dont get it i was making fun of you.</DIV><p>Message Edited by merdorf on <span class=date_text>09-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:59 AM</span>

[prince_sd]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> merdorf wrote: <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And just fyi since you dont get it i was making fun of you.<BR></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>No I get it and that's what I am [Removed for Content] at. There was no reason to poke fun at me. If you didn't agree with my views say you don't and post your own views.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you want to be funny make fun of yourself or your friends.</DIV> <DIV>I don't know you and you are definitely not my friend. I don't think in real life you would go poking fun and calling people suxxor and get a life. Remember what you say can hurt another person. Just because a screen hides us doesn't mean there aren't real people behind it.</DIV>

[Sonic X]

<div></div>The whole reason every body came in sarcastic about this post was the simple fact that you did CRY NERF. And the original post didn't even go into detail with constructive critcism. SOE isn't going to respond to plain whining, constructive complaints will get through to them more then: well we suck cause of this change. People have been doing that immediately when they make a change that lowers an ability, but was lowered for a reason, and hasn't finished being tweaked. Not all of your post's are like this but alot of people have been doing stuff like this in that forum. Give a constructive opinion and reasons why you think "change a. sucks, change b. is better". <div></div>

[prince_sd]

<DIV> <HR> Sonic X wrote:<BR></DIV> <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> The whole reason every body came in sarcastic about this post was the simple fact that you did CRY NERF. And the original post didn't even go into detail with constructive critcism. SOE isn't going to respond to plain whining, constructive complaints will get through to them more then: well we suck cause of this change.<BR><BR>People have been doing that immediately when they make a change that lowers an ability, but was lowered for a reason, and hasn't finished being tweaked.<BR><BR>Not all of your post's are like this but alot of people have been doing stuff like this in that forum. Give a constructive opinion and reasons why you think "change a. sucks, change b. is better". <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Hey, thanks for this post. I respect the fact that you refrained from badgering me.</DIV> <DIV>And I apologize for that. I was short-sighted. </DIV> <DIV>There has been so much discussion about pet mitigation and rez on beta boards that I didn't realize people here might not know the full discussion. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Earlier, i had just posted the changes that were being made on beta boards so all necros know whats happening when it goes live. Looking back I agree I should have posted in detail why I feel this is a nerf which now I have done in later posts.<BR><BR>But just put yourself in my shoes for a second. I post here some changes that I feel are nerfs to the necromancer class and some people just come out and go ballistic on a personal level. It might be some people's idea of fun but really would you take that kind of sarcasm and personal attack in real life ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I say again, my bad that I should have posted in detail before but how difficult was it to just ask "hey why do you think this is a nerf, i thought that was a fix ? But no some people thought hey lets have fun at this guy's expense".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And you know why I keep bringing it up. Because he still hasn't apologized, not in pm not here. He keeps trying to justify it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV>

[Nikr]

<P>back on topic please</P> <P>/em lights up his bowl</P> <DIV>~hardcorestonermancer</DIV>

[Anganos]

You all make baby Jesus cry!

[Melkin9]

<div></div><font size="2">Just let it go Prince. I know its extremely irritating when someone personally attacks you on a forum, but its something that you have to shrug off. People tend to be overly aggressive when they are nice and safe behind their screen. Personally, I tend to be even more polite online then in rl cause I find it cowardly to attack someone when you are not face to face and don't have to worry about the consequences (but that's just me<span> <span>:smileywink:</span>) Thanks for the info btw, I duo almost exclusively with my cousin who plays a necro and we don't usually use the snare/kiting kind of tactics, so his tank pet is very important. Actually it was the reason I came to this forum; to see how the combat changes affect him. Hopefully problems with the tank pet will be resolved (not holding my breath <span>:smileytongue:</span>). I play on test, and did notice how powerful the necro was before, which actually had me cringing cause SOE's response to that is to usually nerf excessively. Anyway when it goes live tomorrow we will test out our duo and see what happens, and if so try to make some adjustments to our playstyle. Again thanks for the heads up, and after experiencing the extreme changes so soon before release I understand why you might have been emotional. To be honest I was screaming after the 9/7 patch, and I'm far less confident with the devs ability to pull this off since then. But again hopefully it works out. </span></font><p>Message Edited by Melkin915 on <span class=date_text>09-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:36 PM</span>

[prince_sd]

<div></div><p>Thanks Melkin. You are right. I can't believe now I let such people get to me. So here's my renewed attempt at explaining the pet mitigation change and how it affects me in a humorous way. </p> <p>Copied from Beta forums</p> <div>There are many similar threads. I will make 1 more attempt. A story i will try to tell through pictures and parses.</div> <div> </div> <div>This story starts on eq2live where I duo with a healer friend. I have a friend who plays a scout, wizard too but I was never able to duo or trio with them because the tank pet never kept aggro off them. Then came the combat revamp and I was a happy necro. Hey, my tank pet was holding aggro like a champ and he was tanking like a champ in his defensive stance. Then comes  the 9/05 series of patches. One after the other and now my tank pet can't hold aggro off the scout. The necro feels very sad that now he can't duo with his scout, wizard friends. But then he notices another thing. He has to distance himself from his healer friend too. </div> <div>Why you say ? Watch this</div> <div> </div> <div>Where the healer is trying to perform the impossible task of keeping the tank pet alive against a blue heroic mob. </div> <div> </div> <div></div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>Note 1: We are in fabled and adept3/ masters. (Cryptic metallic robe if you can recognize)</div> <div> </div> <div>Note 2: Tank pet is in defensive stance.</div> <div> </div> <div>Note 3: We are trying our best. I have swarm pets, dots. healer is trying to heal and even melee and do some damage.</div> <div> </div> <div>Note 4: there's a wizard and scout in group but I have asked them not to help this fight for test purposes</div> <div> </div> <div>Soon, the pet has died and the healer is trying to save his necro friend.</div> <div> </div> <div></div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>The necro says. Hey thats not possible. Must be a bad run we are having. This is even more broken than live. Let me check the parses and we will know for sure. So he looks at the parses.</div> <div> </div> <div></div> <div> </div> <div>And what does he observe. That this was probably the best and luckiest fight they had</div> <div> </div> <div>Why you say ? Because, the spectre missed his harm touch. If that had landed .... loading please wait</div> <div>The pet took 17.5 k damage in 1.5 minutes. Every hit from the spectre was 250-1000 damage without the harm touch. That's what my healer friend was up against. And the only thing he was able to  say was "ouch".</div> <div> </div> <div>So the necro is now alone. His friends don't want to duo/ trio with him. And he wonders maybe this was only <font color="#ff0000"><em>an intentional fix</em></font>. So he goes back and tries soloing the spectre without his junk pet and voila</div> <div> </div> <div></div> <div> </div> <div>And he defeats the big heroic ^^^ mob with his app1 spell.</div> <div>And then he wonders was anything fixed or only the right things broken and the wrong things untouched.</div> <div> </div> <div>But here this story ends. </div> <div>And O' developers hear this necro's plea. <font color="#ff0000">Fix my class and give me back my friends.</font></div> <div></div><p>Message Edited by prince_sd on <span class=date_text>05-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:18 PM</span>

[Melkin9]

<div></div><font size="2">Ouch.. something definately wrong there. A necro/healer duo can't kill a mob but you can solo it using different tactics (snaring/kiting I assume?) .. hmmm. Like you said seems like they have made some wrong adjustments.. hopefully this will be addressed sometime soon. Especially if it is continuously brought to their attention <span>:smileywink:</span> Really hope so, it would kill my duo with my cousin if not <span>:smileysad:</span> *Edit* We just don't like kiting overly much, but whatever works...I guess </font><div></div><p>Message Edited by Melkin915 on <span class=date_text>09-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:20 AM</span>

[Suraklin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Melkin915 wrote:<BR><FONT size=2>Ouch.. something definately wrong there. A necro/healer duo can't kill a mob but you can solo it using different tactics (snaring/kiting I assume?) .. hmmm. Like you said seems like they have made some wrong adjustments.. hopefully this will be addressed sometime soon. Especially if it is continuously brought to their attention <SPAN>:smileywink:</SPAN> <BR><BR><BR>Really hope so, it would kill my duo with my cousin if not <SPAN>:smileysad:</SPAN><BR><BR><BR><BR></FONT> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Not anymore. They nerfed snares also now. The snare effect can break on damage done to the mob so kiting won't work now either. I swear the Devs must have a true hatred for Summoner classes cause we're getting shafted more than any class at the moment. We already had broken spells on live. Now we have broken pets to go along with the new broken spells they've given to us.<BR>

[Melkin9]

<span><blockquote><hr>Suraklin wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Melkin915 wrote:<font size="2">Ouch.. something definately wrong there. A necro/healer duo can't kill a mob but you can solo it using different tactics (snaring/kiting I assume?) .. hmmm. Like you said seems like they have made some wrong adjustments.. hopefully this will be addressed sometime soon. Especially if it is continuously brought to their attention <span>:smileywink:</span> Really hope so, it would kill my duo with my cousin if not <span>:smileysad:</span></font> <div></div> <hr> </blockquote><font size="2">Not anymore. They nerfed snares also now. The snare effect can break on damage done to the mob so kiting won't work now either. I swear the Devs must have a true hatred for Summoner classes cause we're getting shafted more than any class at the moment. We already had broken spells on live. Now we have broken pets to go along with the new broken spells they've given to us.</font> <div></div><hr></blockquote><font size="2">Hmm.. fear kiting? Is that an option now with your fear? If so thats very, very limiting <span>:smileysad:</span></font></span><div></div>

[StueyMonst]

<DIV>So they fixed the one advantage we had now.  It would be so right if the pets were not so wrong.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please, if you're unhappy with your pets after revamp, fill in a CS ticket as well as /feedback, that's what I'm going to do (daily).  They will more than likely see that, than be looking here.  As said by a previous poster, it's more likely they will change things around revamp than in a few months time, so make your voices heard (constructivley).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good luck fellow Necros</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dhark</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Laryagar]

<DIV>  I am not sure if it was posted yet but they did remove the ability for group buffs to affect swarms and dumbfire pets. This combined with lack of combat arts would essentially reduce the swarms and dumbfire pets to being unreliable base damage DoT's since they can still be killed and individually resisted by the targets.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  I do know that at present the beta tank pet performs worse than my live pet, and this is an Adept I pet with my best defensive stance spell on him. Also, I was not testing this pet on heroics, but blue conned solo non-arrow.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  The net result is I find myself less and less wanting to use the tank pet, I did find in instances where the pet lost aggro and I had to fight the NPC directly, that i was tanking better than the pet.  I am envisioning myself ending up playing more as a DoT/Life Draining character than a pet class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  It does make me wonder if that is partly their intention, since pets are so difficult to maintain programmatically with pathing issues and the like.  I recall one patch fairly recently that they made it so we could not send pets to attack something we could not reach, I have not had the opportunity yet to test this but in many dungeons where monsters would be stuck in walls and are invisible to the players.  The game would inform you that you cannot cast on that creature but you could send the pet in and it could fight the creature, I wonder if this fix took away one of our few means of defending against those monsters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  Laryagar</DIV>

[Sarkoris]

<P>I have refrained from entering into this argument once it deterirated into name calling and posturing. Now that it has settled down a little lets look at the facts.</P> <P>First off for those that dont me (/sniff) I played a 67 Necro on Vaz (yes I know Triality Mend - I was/am in Agony) in EQ1, a 50 necro on Najena in EQ 2 and had a 55 Necro on beta. I consider myself quite a vocal member of the necro community and not only when we have problems. I have supplied feedback on when we appeared overpowered as well.</P> <P>Now on to the current state of play. I will not use the terms nerf or balance as they are subjective for each person.</P> <P>Tank pet as he was in most of beta was overpowered. His mitigation was too high and he held aggro too well allowing us to kill blue^^^ heroic mobs at will. This needed adjustment. The fix SOE came up with was to remove mitigation to bring them in line with NPC's and compensated for this with a higher hp pool when defensively buffed. The sad fact is this doesn't work for 2 reasons. Our heals are not proportional - ie healing 1% of the pets hp rather than a set figure. Now that the pet has more hp but less mitigation we have to heal more often. This leads to point number 2 and a further problem it causes.  They reduced the pets ability to keep aggro, so all our extra healing eventually draws the attention of the mob. Sadly this extra healing also greatly reduces our own hp, so when the mob comes a calling we are usually already hp diminshed. We can avoid this by healing the pet less and risking pet death to maintain our own hp pool. It also means we are spending more time healing and less time doing dps, which prolongs a fight and comes back to the pet needing more healing.</P> <P>So all things going well we win the fight. We now have a pet usually pretty damaged and the same for oursleves. The correct solution would of been to lower mitigation to a level where we cannot maintain the pet against the dps a heroic puts out without having such a far reaching impact on general play.</P> <P>Most of the adjustments to our spells have been to lower our dps (swarm pets lose CA and pet buff dps bonus) or increase the rate we lose hp (lich siphon effect does less damge and heals for less while the hp loss to the life/power conversion process was increased).  With lower dps and rapidly used hp pool the last thing we can afford to do is play pet cleric. Also the greater damage to the pet and oursleves leads to a big increase in downtime.</P> <P>Feel free to flame away but as any of the devs would tell you I have been as vocal about preventing god mode going live as the present changes. I hope of the coming days some semblance of mitigation is returned to the pets to allow the more enjoyable pet tanking method of fighting to return over the now modified kiting metod with the next to useless damge broken snare.</P> <P> </P> <P>Sark.</P> <P> </P>

[Dastion]

<DIV>While I mostly like the changes, I have to agree on our ability to heal our pet.   There is a huge difference between having 1000 hp and 12% mitigation and having just 1120 hp (12% more hp).  Both can, technically, take the same amount of damage.  But healing becomes much harder.  And when we have to sacrifice so much of our own health to heal our pet it really makes things difficult.  Not only does the pet take more damage from hits and have a larger hp pool, but we actually heal less than we did before.  The HOT now requires only HP and it's nearly a 1/1 ratio.  Before, it only took a few % of my hp and healed him for quite a bit.  Honestly, it's more efficient for me to cast the master 2 Transfer Life than it is for me to use my Pet Specific Heal..it's only usable on our pet..it shouldn't be so crappy.  They need to add a power cost to the spell and make it an HoT suitable to make up for the loss of buff regeneration and the pet's health pool.  If they insist on making it require so much health, at the very least it should add some defense to the pet for the duration.</DIV>

[Fierce Ra]

One spell I am not very happy with is our heal other spell.  I picked this as one of my master 2 options and it completely sucks.  only being able to heal for 583 hp and we lose over 300 hp.  Not a very good trade off if you ask me.  Plus it shares the same spell line as our pet heals and the recast time is an absolute joke.  Do yourselves a favor and don't pick this training option.