Ok this last patch appears to be the mother of all nerfs for the necromancer!!!

[borw]

<DIV>What gives on test before the patch I could easily go through npc's but now even cons are ripping my pets apart even with the master defensive buffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Before Patch it didnt matter wich pet I used since they all worked fine.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The warlock pet could stand up to an even con non-hero npc fine since you burned it down quickly and it would lifetap.</DIV> <DIV>The Assassin pet did good damage and could tank well with the master defensive buff.</DIV> <DIV>The tank pet did sorry damage but really shown when you had it tanking group con npc's. ( I can understand that you guys dont want people soloing group content but it is having problems tanking solo content.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now they all get their arses kicked in a fight and you have to heal it during every fight, which it wouldnt be bad but it is considering that this combat revamp seriously nerfed our manaregen and healing power.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now we are at where necros were before the combat revamp without power regen and heals... Thanks Sony you guys really know how to do your job and thats nerfing things into oblivian.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Suggestions:</DIV> <DIV>1) Restore pets to how they were where they could actually tank things.</DIV> <DIV>2) Or get rid of the health drain from our healing spells.</DIV> <DIV>3) Or increase the amount healed from our offensive and defensive pet buffs.</DIV> <DIV>4) Or increase our power regen and lifetaps to compensate for the useless downtime that we are going to experience from now on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh and get rid of the stinking intelligence debuff on our defensive buff.</DIV>

[wurtin]

<P>The warlock pet should die a quick death when tanking.  He is not meant for tanking,  he should get interrupted a lot, not hold aggro very well, etc..  How well does a warlock tank on live  when they cant kill the mob before it gets to them.</P> <P>The assassin pet should tank like a scout.  Be able to hold his own in most even solo encounters.  He should get shredded by any Heroic and have lots of problems with anyone over his level.</P> <P>The tank pet should be the one that holds aggro the best, mitigates the best, and is our primary tank pet.  </P> <P> </P> <P>They are still making major changes to how much damage mobs dish out.  read some of the Dev posts from yesterday.  There should be another big update today that should address some of these changes</P> <p>Message Edited by wurtin on <span class=date_text>09-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:39 AM</span>

[Deathspell]

Wait, you are saying that the warlock/wizard's pet is a CONTROLLABLE pet? Are we talking on Test only or ...? coz AFAIK, their pets are not controllable, unreliable and cannot rank at all. <div></div>

[Eirgo]

<DIV>Necromancers (and conjurors) get 3 spell lines for pet.  One is a beefy zombie pet that we call the tank pet, another is a shadowy guy that we refer to as out assassin pet, and finally we get a skeleton pet that casts spells like a sorcerer so we refer to him as our warlock pet.  Not to be confused with the warlock spell line that summons dumb fire pets.</DIV>

[El Chupacabr]

<DIV>Edit:  Oops, responded to the wrong post.</DIV><p>Message Edited by El Chupacabras on <span class=date_text>09-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:24 AM</span>

[Shirodan]

I assure you all, summoners got it good compared to the other classes, and let me tell ya, summoners got it  pretty harsh. Although we are one of the few classes that "actually are able" to kill mobs high enough to give experience. I am by no means whatsoever exagerating. My friend is a 6 fighter atm because he can't even get citizenship, the single down arrow mob that is blue has killed him 17 times thus far. I suggest you all see to it that this patch never sees the light of day, and get it off our test sever :smileysad:

[Tallika_Runwithbears]

they already know about the low lvl issues and are fixing them right now.  dont be so reactionary. <div></div>

[Shirodan]

low level issues are far from the only.

[prince_sd]

<DIV>There was this series of idiot posts where they kept asking to nerf necro pets because they could tank heroic mobs. They failed to notice that most other classes did too because the npc mobs were weak, necros only slightly better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The result, pets have been nerfed to hell and npcs have been beefed up. Grrrrr.</DIV>

[Named]

<DIV>I'm not amazingly happy about it either, but try to look at it from their perspective. They are just trying to make it so Necromancers CANNOT solo heroics effectively. They succeeded in doing what they were trying to do. We are still a very powerful group/raid class and still probally the best solo class in the game.</DIV>

[Cly]

<blockquote><hr>Named88 wrote:<DIV>I'm not amazingly happy about it either, but try to look at it from their perspective. They are just trying to make it so Necromancers CANNOT solo heroics effectively. They succeeded in doing what they were trying to do. We are still a very powerful group/raid class and still probally the best solo class in the game.</DIV><hr></blockquote>You are joking?Necromancers are an average solo class in their 40s, and before that simply crap.On raids they just stand there and buff mana hearts.In groups they are unwanted because of their low damage.And to get to the point: why should every other class be able to solo heroics but not the necromancer?

[Nainitsuj]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Clywd wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Named88 wrote:<BR> <DIV>I'm not amazingly happy about it either, but try to look at it from their perspective. They are just trying to make it so Necromancers CANNOT solo heroics effectively. They succeeded in doing what they were trying to do. We are still a very powerful group/raid class and still probally the best solo class in the game.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>You are joking?<BR>Necromancers are an average solo class in their 40s, and before that simply crap.<BR>On raids they just stand there and buff mana hearts.<BR>In groups they are unwanted because of their low damage.<BR><BR>And to get to the point: why should every other class be able to solo heroics but not the necromancer?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm a pretty [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] good solo class.  I did most of 30-40 solo.  I did lvl 38 to 43 solo in the Feerrott ( I hardly used my pet for that). </P> <P>In a raid I'm the 3rd highest DPS (yah, casting hearts all the time slows me down a lot)</P> <P>And that's hardly true.  A throw away back up tank is always wanted.<BR></P> <P>Just because YOU can't solo, don't assume the class can't.</P><BR></DIV>

[Cly]

Well, I am necromancer since day 1, and I did most of my 50 levels solo also, mostly killing yellow heroic mobs. Nevertheless, compared to a warlock, a dirge, even a guardian, we suck. I never said we can't solo, I said we aren't the best in soloing.And on raids: what the hell do you raid? Most epics have an AoE that kills our pet almost instantly, and my guild did a lot of parsing, and yeah, on most targets we do more damage than a healer - but that's it.A good necro mob is King Drayek, as he has no AoE. But even there neither me nor the other necro in my guild had a chance to enter the top 10 dps.(Stop calling other guys noobs, we are all noobs.)

[KBern]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nainitsuj wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Clywd wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Named88 wrote:<BR> <DIV>I'm not amazingly happy about it either, but try to look at it from their perspective. They are just trying to make it so Necromancers CANNOT solo heroics effectively. They succeeded in doing what they were trying to do. We are still a very powerful group/raid class and still probally the best solo class in the game.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>You are joking?<BR>Necromancers are an average solo class in their 40s, and before that simply crap.<BR>On raids they just stand there and buff mana hearts.<BR>In groups they are unwanted because of their low damage.<BR><BR>And to get to the point: why should every other class be able to solo heroics but not the necromancer?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm a pretty [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] good solo class.  I did most of 30-40 solo.  <STRONG>I did lvl 38 to 43 solo in the Feerrott ( I hardly used my pet for that). </STRONG></P> <P>In a raid I'm the 3rd highest DPS (yah, casting hearts all the time slows me down a lot)</P> <P>And that's hardly true.  A throw away back up tank is always wanted.<BR></P> <P>Just because YOU can't solo, don't assume the class can't.</P><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I agree we are, or were, a good solo class, but [Removed for Content] do you mean by that?</P> <P>A necro who doesnt use his pet?  lol um ok.<BR></P>

[Suraklin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nainitsuj wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Clywd wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Named88 wrote:<BR> <DIV>I'm not amazingly happy about it either, but try to look at it from their perspective. They are just trying to make it so Necromancers CANNOT solo heroics effectively. They succeeded in doing what they were trying to do. We are still a very powerful group/raid class and still probally the best solo class in the game.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>You are joking?<BR>Necromancers are an average solo class in their 40s, and before that simply crap.<BR>On raids they just stand there and buff mana hearts.<BR>In groups they are unwanted because of their low damage.<BR><BR>And to get to the point: why should every other class be able to solo heroics but not the necromancer?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#cc0033>I'm a pretty [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] good solo class.  I did most of 30-40 solo.  I did lvl 38 to 43 solo in the Feerrott ( I hardly used my pet for that).</FONT><FONT color=#cc0033> </FONT></P> <P>In a raid I'm the 3rd highest DPS (yah, casting hearts all the time slows me down a lot)</P> <P>And that's hardly true.  A throw away back up tank is always wanted.<BR></P> <P>Just because YOU can't solo, don't assume the class can't.</P><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>/sarcasm on</P> <P>Wow you must be the greatest necro ever. No need to use your pet to solo? I bow to your uberness.</P> <P>/sarcasm off<BR></P>

[Gargamel]

<div></div>Yes, in the 9-8-05 patch our <font color="#ff0000">tank</font> pet got dmg nerf, HP nerf, and aggro nerf our <font color="#ff0000">assassign </font>pets got HP nerf, and dmg nerf our <font color="#ff0000">warlock </font>pet got HP nerf and our '<font color="#ff0000">summon dps</font>' spells (rats/dogs/bats) got HP nerf and aggro generation removed <div></div><p>Message Edited by Gargamel on <span class=date_text>09-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:11 PM</span>

[Dastion]

<DIV>If he doesn't use the pet to solo, my guess is that he root/dots, it's not really all that hard if you have the snare's and room to move around.  And since the pet isn't fighting he just keeps his mana topped off with Essence Shift and Bloody Ritual.  Last I tried root/dot only the initial cast of a DoT would break the root, so if you land the snare at the very least it's no problem at all to keep up.  Though, if you have the snares I don't see why you'd resort to rooting when you could just kite and let the pet [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] at it's heels.</DIV>

[Badd Boy]

I have Never, and I do mean Never been on a raid where I was not a major player on the DPS scene. Was I the best in the raid...no. You see, if you are a necro and are on a raid and only doing DPS, you are not a very good necro, imo. I still have a ton to learn about being a necro and using my class to its fullest. However, when I go on raids I am debuffing the mobs, passing out mana shards, as well as dishing some nice DPS. Even with all the utility casting I am in the top 10, always . Most generally I am in the top 5. I have alot of pride in my class, it does pain me to see what they have done to our class. I can only hope with a positive train of thought that they will fix this before it goes live. <div></div>

[Za]

<blockquote><hr>Clywd wrote:<blockquote><hr>Named88 wrote:<DIV>I'm not amazingly happy about it either, but try to look at it from their perspective. They are just trying to make it so Necromancers CANNOT solo heroics effectively. They succeeded in doing what they were trying to do. We are still a very powerful group/raid class and still probally the best solo class in the game.</DIV><hr></blockquote>You are joking?Necromancers are an average solo class in their 40s, and before that simply crap.On raids they just stand there and buff mana hearts.In groups they are unwanted because of their low damage.And to get to the point: why should every other class be able to solo heroics but not the necromancer?<hr></blockquote>No one said other classes should but necros couldn't2. On live... I have NEVER had any trouble soloing anything I should be able to solo.I havd a L50 Inq and Necro, and by far the Necro solo 1000x better, and thats not to say I solo bad with my Inq. They BOTH have been soloable since day 1.

[merdo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Clywd wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Named88 wrote:<BR> <DIV>I'm not amazingly happy about it either, but try to look at it from their perspective. They are just trying to make it so Necromancers CANNOT solo heroics effectively. They succeeded in doing what they were trying to do. We are still a very powerful group/raid class and still probally the best solo class in the game.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>You are joking?<BR>Necromancers are an average solo class in their 40s, and before that simply crap.<BR>On raids they just stand there and buff mana hearts.<BR>In groups they are unwanted because of their low damage.<BR><BR>And to get to the point: why should every other class be able to solo heroics but not the necromancer?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I dont care about soloing heroics but wiz warlock are all that out dps me and on some raids i out dps the wizzys.</P> <P>I have 17 master 1 spells if i cannot solo a green heroic there is something wrong.</P> <P>player/gear should play a big part if i still get owned i will bug it every day</P>

[Greggthegrmreapr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Clywd wrote:<BR>mostly killing yellow heroic mobs. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>maybe this has something to do with getting nerfed</DIV>

[Named]

<DIV>Listen -- I'm on beta. I have been on a bunch ( 5+ ) playtest pickup raids for devs. I parsed the whole raid on every single fight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would almost always be 300+ dps on non ae fights. On ae fights I would usually break 800 dps. And heres the kicker -- That isn't even including my 120 - 180 dps from the caster pet ( Yes! I parsed caster pets putting out 120+ dps constantly over 4-5 minute fights ) or my swarm pet damage. The Sorcerers would be lucky to even catch my personal dps. They never did more damage then me + my pets combined. Most scouts averaged anywheres from 150 - 250.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And as for being useless on a raid on live... I don't know whats up with you, but I can easily break 200 dps on zalak, arch lich, zek blob waves, etc etc. I've raided every single raid in game dozens of times. On every single raid I was a fundamental part of the raid. I didn't do #1 damage, but I was close. I didn't give mana regen like a chanter, but again, the rods are close. If you look at the big picture -- our mana regen, our damage, our rezes, feign, etc.. We are a very usefull and unique class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not looking for any more upgrades for the Necromancer class on beta. I am looking for fixes to broken spells. Thats it.</DIV>

[Badd Boy]

Very well said Riz, I can tell you the above post is true. Riz has been a mouthpiece for us necros and knows his class extremely well. I have read enough of his posts to know if he says it, there is a reason behind it. Not trying to sound like a mark for Riz, I don't even know him in game cept talking once or twice for advice when I was in my 20's. Anyhow, lets all work together and get what is broken on our class fixed. <div></div>

[liquidsteele31]

<DIV>Hmmm I am not sure on the patch it should be interesting to see but from everything I have been reading i must be a horible Necro cause in all my time playing and that has been since day 1 I have never been able to even attempt to solo a heroic blue con mob much less a heroic yellow....I see the word heroic and i avoid it hreoic greens have kicked my butt so i cant figure out how all the other Necros do it. I have adepts have busted my butt to get the best gear i can and still the heroic greens come close to killing me...Oh well guess I just have never figured out how to solo thoose yellow heroics much less the blues lol</DIV>

[Named]

<DIV>I'm nearly full fabled with almost all master 1s/adept 3s and I cannot pet tank a heroic mob. Even a green con one. I have to kite heroics to kill them and it is a pain in the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. No ammount of gear or spells will bring your pet's tanking ability up to be able to tank a heroic mob with the necro's crappy pet healing.</DIV>

[Allowen]

<P>Well I am disappointed now, if you telling us that you cant solo heroic mobs  then we dont need a snare spell cause that would be only needed to agro kite hard mobs 2 arrows.</P> <P>TO fight solo mobs  even a caster pet can tank then, even if it requires us to heal the nuker but it can tank so no need to have snare then, even if we get 2 ,3 solo mobs on us we will root then, well eventualy coudl agro kite one but snare will just be for extra damage.</P> <P>The game will be boring if we dont have challenging fights to do when soloing 2 arrows or a group heroic of two or three mobs.</P> <P>Lol, dont tell me you can not even solo a group of lizardmen in feerrott by the RoI rock spawn because I will laugh soo much eh</P> <P>Allowen</P>

[liquidsteele31]

<DIV>Thanks for the reply Riz..So im not as broke as i thought..lol Now then why do so many people think in other posts i read that we are the reason for this that we can solo ^^heroics like it is nothing? Are they just talking without knowing whats going on really? Or are they assuming we are like the EQ Necros that can do way more soloing then we can here on EQ2?</DIV>

[quamdar]

what con level mob did you kite and was it harder than it is on live if you just have doll and one snare(60%)? <div></div>

[Eirgo]

<P>Ive only done a little testing on the snares in Beta and from what I have seen the spell line snare and the hex doll do NOT stack.  The spell snares 47% and the nex doll varies in the 30's up to a max of 38% or so.  Either they just flat out dont stack, or there is a snare cap that is set around 50% or so and I cant tell the difference.  The caimen I was snaring were keeping up with me very well and Im not sure kiting heroics will be an option biased towards certain classes anymore.  It seems that it will just require a hew doll and a wand to do it and it will take just as close to forever for anyone to do it.</P> <P>Maybe timing sprints or whatnot could speed things up a bit, or maybe I just wasnt trying hard enough.  I will try some more in the morning.</P> <P>Thanks,</P>

[Named]

<DIV>Officially, no I can't really solo heroics with ease. Using a bugged spell or two I can solo them no problem. With some crafty foot work I can solo groups of heroics. It takes A TON of practice and dying though. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm on beta atm duoing with medievh and we've been owning things all night. With well timed stuns and leet kiting we can probally duo nearly any non epic mob.</DIV>

[Cly]

<blockquote><hr>Named88 wrote:<DIV>Officially, no I can't really solo heroics with ease. Using a bugged spell or two I can solo them no problem. With some crafty foot work I can solo groups of heroics. It takes A TON of practice and dying though. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm on beta atm duoing with medievh and we've been owning things all night. With well timed stuns and leet kiting we can probally duo nearly any non epic mob.</DIV><hr></blockquote>So we get a kiting spell, but cannot kite? Doh, that sounds disapointing.And why can they keep up with your speed, when they are slowed by 50%? Are the mobs faster now?What about the other classes in beta? Can they still kill heroics?

[Badd Boy]

On live I can solo the lvl 46-47 snow leopards and the lvl 47 goblins near perma entrance. Not to say I do it everytime without dying, but I CAN. Anyhow, alot has to happen for me to win, things have to happen in perfect timing. It is a pain in the [Removed for Content] really. I mess around trying to learn my class with Feign Death alot, lol. <div></div>

[Nainitsuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KBern wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nainitsuj wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Clywd wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Named88 wrote:<BR> <DIV>I'm not amazingly happy about it either, but try to look at it from their perspective. They are just trying to make it so Necromancers CANNOT solo heroics effectively. They succeeded in doing what they were trying to do. We are still a very powerful group/raid class and still probally the best solo class in the game.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>You are joking?<BR>Necromancers are an average solo class in their 40s, and before that simply crap.<BR>On raids they just stand there and buff mana hearts.<BR>In groups they are unwanted because of their low damage.<BR><BR>And to get to the point: why should every other class be able to solo heroics but not the necromancer?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm a pretty [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] good solo class.  I did most of 30-40 solo.  <STRONG>I did lvl 38 to 43 solo in the Feerrott ( I hardly used my pet for that). </STRONG></P> <P>In a raid I'm the 3rd highest DPS (yah, casting hearts all the time slows me down a lot)</P> <P>And that's hardly true.  A throw away back up tank is always wanted.<BR></P> <P>Just because YOU can't solo, don't assume the class can't.</P><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I agree we are, or were, a good solo class, but [Removed for Content] do you mean by that?</P> <P>A necro who doesnt use his pet?  lol um ok.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Old school necro.  In EQL we used them mainly as another dot.  Most of the time they would get you in trouble.  Last thing I needed when I root/roted a mammoth at <DIV>44 was my pet breaking my roots.  Same went for Feerrott.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Snares kept it at bay while I reapplied the chains.  Simple and very effective.  The pet is a crutch, learn to play without it.</DIV>