Training Options on Beta ATM

[Handleba]

Level 14: Agitation Earthly Brand Protective Brace Soothe Servant Level 24: Lifetap Favor of the Fallen  Blight Swarm of Rats Level 34: Grisly Brace Breath of the Unearthed Withering Affliction Transfer Life Level 44: Words of the Wicked Rending Frenzy Necromantic Symbol Necrotic Mending Level 54: Siphon Life Rat Infestation Voice of the Departed Teachings of the Shadows <div></div>

[Handleba]

I have the screens for all of these and will post them after dinner.  The Teachings of the Shadows at Master 2 now increases INT be 71.  <div></div>

[Deson]

They say why they switched them? <div></div>

[Handleba]

For those who can't wait... <img src="http://eq2necromancer.com/Images/EQ2_000000.jpg"> <img src="http://eq2necromancer.com/Images/EQ2_000001.jpg"> <img src="http://eq2necromancer.com/Images/EQ2_000002.jpg"> <img src="http://eq2necromancer.com/Images/EQ2_000003.jpg"> <div></div>

[Handleba]

Sorry for the big post, this is with an INT of 239. <div></div>

[Sosum]

Thanks HB.... good info to have there. <div></div>

[merdo]

<P>sweet</P> <P> </P> <P>the heal is the same ratio just heals for less .58</P> <P>this is probably better 600 heal as opposed to 950 just becaus ethe tife it takes is also lower</P> <P>we dont need to have super big heals but efficient is better in the long run</P>

[Grey_Gho]

<div></div><font size="6"><b>Why do the Lifetaps have both a Health and Power cost? </b></font>Losing Health to heal yourself doesn't make any sense. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Grey_Ghost on <span class=date_text>08-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:00 PM</span>

[quamdar]

so i am still wondering what exactly the (AE) means on buffs does that mean not just your group but the raid that is within your area gets the effect? <div></div>

[xAlar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Handlebars wrote:<BR>Level 14:<BR>Agitation<BR>Earthly Brand<BR>Protective Brace<BR>Soothe Servant<BR><BR>Level 24:<BR>Lifetap<BR>Favor of the Fallen  <BR>Blight<BR><FONT color=#ffff00>Swarm of Rats<BR></FONT><BR>Level 34:<BR>Grisly Brace<BR>Breath of the Unearthed<BR>Withering Affliction<BR>Transfer Life<BR><BR>Level 44:<BR>Words of the Wicked<BR>Rending Frenzy<BR>Necromantic Symbol<BR>Necrotic Mending<BR><BR>Level 54:<BR>Siphon Life<BR><FONT color=#ffff00>Rat Infestation</FONT><BR>Voice of the Departed<BR>Teachings of the Shadows<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Do the two rat spells (Swarm of Rats & Rat Infestation) have different animations on beta when they are made Master II level?  The rat animations sure are getting old...would like to see those dogs come back, or anything other than the rats to be honest....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[quamdar]

i would like to know the number and con of all the rats for the master two infestation. <div></div>

[Kirotaan]

So it looks like upgrading spells now will be way worth it especially our heals and taps. <div></div>

[Named]

The Master II rats on beta are INSANE. There are only 3 of them -- all level 50, one down arrow, two double downs, but they put a hurting on the mob. Just a quick look at the rats hitting and i was seeing constant 150+ dmg hits from all three rats. I'll log on beta and parse them in a minute <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[El Chupacabr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Named88 wrote:<BR>The Master II rats on beta are INSANE. There are only 3 of them -- all level 50, one down arrow, two double downs, but they put a hurting on the mob. Just a quick look at the rats hitting and i was seeing constant 150+ dmg hits from all three rats. I'll log on beta and parse them in a minute <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>From the wizard developer (which happens to be the necromancer developer as well)</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff99><STRONG>Protoflame</STRONG> - Protoflame is currently much more powerful than its Warlock counterpart, the Netheros. In general, it sounds like the Protoflame pet need some adjust when it is summoned at higher ranks, and possibly non-Summoner dumbfire pets in general. </FONT><FONT color=#ff0000>It is highly likely than the current incarnation of Protoflame will be toned down</FONT><FONT color=#ffff99> (especially at higher ranks such as Master II).</FONT></P> <P>Seems to me we are meant to have the most powerful swarm pets and it's all being balanced against that... don't expect that rats nerf anytime soon <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</P> <P>Though I am curious, by all rats are 50, do you mean at level 54?  To put it another way, are they not leveling with you?</P>

[Urbanna]

The more I look at these combat changes...the more I wonder if the Devs realize just how much they are affecting the game and if enough testing is being done, especially at lower levels. Look at the life taps master II as an example: currently that spell alone can 1-2 hit alot of solo lvl 20 mobs.... <div></div>

[slyfer]

<DIV>Handelbars do you think that you could parse out the damages of 2 of the master 2's.  I'm interested in Voice and the Rat's Master 2's.  Which one gives the most dps?</DIV><p>Message Edited by slyfer on <span class=date_text>08-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:56 PM</span>

[Named]

<DIV>Err.. ya.. The rats level with you. I'm 55 and they are level 55 when I cast them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Over a 1 minute 36 second fight the rats did 12889 damage, or 134 dps. Thats pretty nice for a 1.5 minute fight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In an other 57 sec fight vs a 55 ^^^, the rats did 126 dps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Handleba]

Are you on Beta right now Riz?  I've got a few more orders and was going to head over and do some testing and parsing. <div></div>

[Thraken]

<DIV>If I recall on Beta when the last set of training options went in (the one were plague of rats was an option), both the app1 and MAster2 spells had the same animation.  (three rats of equal con, one single down arrow, two double down)  </DIV>

[quamdar]

<div>"Over a 1 minute 36 second fight the rats did 12889 damage, or 134 dps. Thats pretty nice for a 1.5 minute fight.</div> <div> </div> <div>In an other 57 sec fight vs a 55 ^^^, the rats did 126 dps." wow, that is just insane any idea how that compares to the adept 3 or adept 1 DPS wise cause i am trying to decide if i wanna choose this one or the offensive pet buff atm. </div> <div></div>

[El Chupacabr]

<P>Hmm... as much as I like pet buffs, the rat damage and the increased survivability of a group of even level pets may outweigh it.</P> <P>Assuming a linear change on that pet buff, an Ad3 would:</P> <UL> <LI>Boon of the lifeless for 353 at same 10% chance</LI> <LI>Haste to 43.7%</LI> <LI>Increase pet casting skills by 11.6</LI></UL> <P>So the difference would be:</P> <OL> <LI>84 more damage on boon</LI> <OL> <LI>24% proc damage increase</LI></OL> <LI>2.5 higher pet cast spells</LI> <OL> <LI>22% grim pet cast increase</LI></OL> <LI>9.3% increased haste</LI> <OL> <LI>21% increased pet haste.</LI></OL></OL> <DIV>Now, is that 20ish percent increase on those skills outdone by those master rats?  I'm guessing they are (by quite a bit).</DIV>

[xAlar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Named88 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Err.. ya.. The rats level with you. I'm 55 and they are level 55 when I cast them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Over a 1 minute 36 second fight the rats did 12889 damage, or 134 dps. Thats pretty nice for a 1.5 minute fight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In an other 57 sec fight vs a 55 ^^^, the rats did 126 dps.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Is that the Master II version of the level 51 rats?</P> <P>What dps does the Adept 3 version of the same spell do against the same target?</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Dastion]

<DIV>Is anyone else unhappy with the fact that they nerfed it from 6 Training Options as you level to only 5?</DIV>

[xAlar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dastion84 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Is anyone else unhappy with the fact that they nerfed it from 6 Training Options as you level to only 5?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes, it's a pointless change, and it will hurt us even more during the next expansion (we won't be able to upgrade our level 51 rats at 65, because there will only be a level 64 option).  I posted in the big thread about this bad change.</P> <P> </P>

[Urbanna]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dastion84 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Is anyone else unhappy with the fact that they nerfed it from 6 Training Options as you level to only 5?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Where were you under the impression that we had 6 training options? On live we have one at 10, 20, 30, 40 - only 4....in the expansion we'll have 5. They also changed the training options so we now get to use our new tier spells instead of last tier spells....so our training choices will last longer. The only 'functionally different' training option that we had, snares....are being added as a whole new line...so we don't even loose out on that. To me, that's not exactly a nerf lol</P> <P>There's two problems I have with the training changes: I think they're a little overpowering and they cheapen master 1's and adept 3's.....and they took away two of our coolest looking spells.</P>

[xAlar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Urbannaja wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dastion84 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Is anyone else unhappy with the fact that they nerfed it from 6 Training Options as you level to only 5?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Where were you under the impression that we had 6 training options? On live we have one at 10, 20, 30, 40 - only 4....in the expansion we'll have 5. They also changed the training options so we now get to use our new tier spells instead of last tier spells....so our training choices will last longer. The only 'functionally different' training option that we had, snares....are being added as a whole new line...so we don't even loose out on that. To me, that's not exactly a nerf lol</P> <P>There's two problems I have with the training changes: I think they're a little overpowering and they cheapen master 1's and adept 3's.....and they took away two of our coolest looking spells.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>SOE proposed six Master II options, at 10,20,30,40,50,60 and everybody was very excited.  These changes were put in on the beta server.  That's where we got the idea that we would have six - because that's what they put in place.</P> <P>Then the 60 option was yanked and moved to 54, and the 10 option removed entirely.  The problem is this:  some classes get their tier-defining spells in the x5-x9 range, and they won't be able to Master II those spells.  After all of the excitement that built up over the Master II system, the change to x4 is very deflating.</P> <P><BR> </P>

[merdo]

<P>as it is now you get to choose 4 times and most of those spells are outdated when oyu get adept 3 of the one it is supposed to replace.</P> <P>Now you get Master2 this spell you will probably never upgrade and guess what you can still get master one of all the other spells cept the one you chose because it will most likely never be outdated.</P> <P>and guess what you get to choose 1 more option none was throwing a [Removed for Content] fit when you couldent chose an option at 50 always 10 20 30 40 an dthat seemed kind of stupid to me why would i want to choose a spell at 10 and 20? that really dont do me a whole lot of good.</P> <P>I think x8 would have been a good choice but then you would have had to wait till 18 to make a choice. i think the system is fine and will work well we only gain from it you have lost nothing unless you shose a spell that wasnt a class spell and those really didnt help that much in the long run </P> <P>quit complaining and have fun with your free brand new master 2 spells.</P> <P> </P> <P>Oh and we most like wouldent have been able to choose at 60 anyways so we wouldhave been limited to level 50 choices i doubt that would have ever made it live</P> <p>Message Edited by merdorf on <span class=date_text>09-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:25 AM</span>

[Dastion]

<DIV>Wow, please learn to use periods and stuff...that was confusing to read.  The great thing behind the every 10th level system is that it adds a feeling of accomplishment at levels where it is suitable.  What's so special about level 24?  At level 10 you gain a class, at 20 a subclass. And I don't know what you're talking about when you say why would anyone want a training option then, I was very excited about my training options at both 10 and 20...right now I still use my level 10 and 20 training options (Snare Dot and Opal's buff).  The same goes for how it is now. Yes you may get an upgrade to a spell only a few levels before it naturally upgrades, but I believe that's part of the reason that these are Master 2 spells.  Before, Master 1 was seen as coveted and powerful, and now we're getting M2 abilities.  If I upgrade a spell to Master 2 at 30, and get an upgrade to it a few levels later...I wonder which is going to be my most powerful option? And when it comes to the end game, I'd love to have a Master 2 Exchange Life, it's not available in the current system.  The only real bonus I see to the current system is that you can get the final Offensive Stance m2 6 levels sooner than you could have prior.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They should stick with the every 10 levels option, resulting in more levels of choices and also leaving something big for the tier levels.</DIV>

[xAlar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dastion84 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Wow, please learn to use periods and stuff...that was confusing to read.  The great thing behind the every 10th level system is that it adds a feeling of accomplishment at levels where it is suitable.  What's so special about level 24?  At level 10 you gain a class, at 20 a subclass. And I don't know what you're talking about when you say why would anyone want a training option then, I was very excited about my training options at both 10 and 20...right now I still use my level 10 and 20 training options (Snare Dot and Opal's buff).  The same goes for how it is now. Yes you may get an upgrade to a spell only a few levels before it naturally upgrades, but I believe that's part of the reason that these are Master 2 spells.  Before, Master 1 was seen as coveted and powerful, and now we're getting M2 abilities.  If I upgrade a spell to Master 2 at 30, and get an upgrade to it a few levels later...I wonder which is going to be my most powerful option? And when it comes to the end game, I'd love to have a Master 2 Exchange Life, it's not available in the current system.  The only real bonus I see to the current system is that you can get the final Offensive Stance m2 6 levels sooner than you could have prior.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They should stick with the every 10 levels option, resulting in more levels of choices and also leaving something big for the tier levels.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>/agree</P> <P>x4 is a poor game design decision, but there's little we can do about it at this stage.</P> <P> </P>

[merdo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dastion84 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Wow, please learn to use periods and stuff...that was confusing to read.  The great thing behind the every 10th level system is that it adds a feeling of accomplishment at levels where it is suitable.  What's so special about level 24?  At level 10 you gain a class, at 20 a subclass. And I don't know what you're talking about when you say why would anyone want a training option then, I was very excited about my training options at both 10 and 20...right now I still use my level 10 and 20 training options (Snare Dot and Opal's buff).  The same goes for how it is now. Yes you may get an upgrade to a spell only a few levels before it naturally upgrades, but I believe that's part of the reason that these are Master 2 spells.  Before, Master 1 was seen as coveted and powerful, and now we're getting M2 abilities.  If I upgrade a spell to Master 2 at 30, and get an upgrade to it a few levels later...I wonder which is going to be my most powerful option? And when it comes to the end game, I'd love to have a Master 2 Exchange Life, it's not available in the current system.  The only real bonus I see to the current system is that you can get the final Offensive Stance m2 6 levels sooner than you could have prior.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They should stick with the every 10 levels option, resulting in more levels of choices and also leaving something big for the tier levels.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I reread the thread and i cannot for the life of me figure out who this guy is talking about. The hardest post in the whole thread to read is his. <p>Message Edited by merdorf on <span class=date_text>09-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:33 PM</span>

[Dastion]

<DIV>I think you know exactly who I was talking about. Thank you for editing your post and seperating your thoughts a little more coherently Merdorf. Still, I think it's amusing that you would edit it and then make the above reply.  The only thing I can't understand is how you managed to make it look like you edited before I posted my reply. Really quite funny how you try belittle my post simply because I made a comment about your own, even more funny how you seem to think no one will notice that you edited it and are blatantly just trying to make yourself look better by pretending you don't know who I was talking about and, just happen, to say similar things about my writing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyhow, have the training options changed any?</DIV><p>Message Edited by Dastion84 on <span class=date_text>09-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:19 PM</span>

[merdo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dastion84 wrote:<BR> <DIV>I think you know exactly who I was talking about. Thank you for editing your post and seperating your thoughts a little more coherently Merdorf. Still, I think it's amusing that you would edit it and then make the above reply.  The only thing I can't understand is how you managed to make it look like you edited before I posted my reply. Really quite funny how you try belittle my post simply because I made a comment about your own, even more funny how you seem to think no one will notice that you edited it and are blatantly just trying to make yourself look better by pretending you don't know who I was talking about and, just happen, to say similar things about my writing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyhow, have the training options changed any?</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Dastion84 on <SPAN class=date_text>09-09-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:19 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Your nuts man i edited that post like 3 seconds after i posted it for mispellings<BR>

[merdo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dastion84 wrote:<BR> <DIV>I think you know exactly who I was talking about. Thank you for editing your post and seperating your thoughts a little more coherently Merdorf. Still, I think it's amusing that you would edit it and then make the above reply.  The only thing I can't understand is how you managed to make it look like you edited before I posted my reply. Really quite funny how you try belittle my post simply because I made a comment about your own, even more funny how you seem to think no one will notice that you edited it and are blatantly just trying to make yourself look better by pretending you don't know who I was talking about and, just happen, to say similar things about my writing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyhow, have the training options changed any?</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Dastion84 on <SPAN class=date_text>09-09-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:19 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>look at the time stamp it is 1 min later </P> <P> </P> <P>now look at your post 31 minutes later a full 30 min before you posted so how did i go back and edit 30 min before you posted after you posted?</P> <P>your still nuts man.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by merdorf on <span class=date_text>09-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:33 PM</span>