On Test - Necromancer spells levels 1 - 50!

[Named]

<DIV>Well I logged on test today and after getting spammed by 15 different level 3 players on the isle of refuge about the necro changes.. I thought I would post the screenies on all the spells. Here goes~ and feel free to ask questions as I can test out anything you guys want me to.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <IMG src="http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5868/eq20000087fr.jpg"></DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6409/eq20000099ue.jpg"></DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6895/eq20000103bt.jpg"></DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/2452/eq20000119lu.jpg"></DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/8630/eq20000125ce.jpg"></DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/3343/eq20000131tu.jpg"></DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5306/eq20000149fo.jpg"></DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/8641/eq20000158xo.jpg"></DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/4861/eq20000160kn.jpg"></DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9536/eq20000170wb.jpg"></DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/2315/eq20000181qs.jpg"></DIV>

[slyfer]

<DIV>Nice post, if you get any upgrades post them as soon as you get them I know we all would like to see what the differences are on upgraded spells.</DIV>

[Named]

<DIV>I can go buy app 2s I guess... I don't think there are any level 50 sages on test. ><</DIV>

[Tallika_Runwithbears]

will you be changing your surname now?? <div></div>

[schrammy]

<P>do are pets have 2 arrows down now???</P> <P>the grim terror in the screenie does. If that is so and pet buffs take 2 concentration slots i am afraid we are screwed.</P> <P>It was hard enough as necro allready, so instead of the love we were promised like months ago, we are seriously nerfed i think. With double down pets i cant see us solo much</P>

[slyfer]

<P>I think that I read somewhere that they haven't changed the pet arrows.  They forgot to take out the down arrows.  It is going to take me a while to sort this all out.  And what spells to save ink for to upgrade.</P> <P>Skinrot is a DoT now.</P> <P>Siphon Life got a MAJOR upgrade.</P> <P>Revivication is going to help out alot in raids.  This is very good.  Wonder if you can rez anyone in the raid or only in your group?</P> <P> </P>

[Eirgo]

<P>Thanks a ton for posting these screens.  Im at work now, so I am going off memory to see what spells seemed to change alot, this is what I see:</P> <P>1) Stench line now a summon pet for short time</P> <P>2)Siphon life lvl 50 now and does alot more damage</P> <P>3) Skinrot does a bit more damage, albeit over 4 seconds</P> <P>4) Tons of things take mucho concentration</P> <P>5) Fade snares us 25% now at ad1 instead of 5%</P> <P>6) Can cast Reviv in combat</P> <P>7) Eternal Bindings has a chance to fear and snare on breaking</P> <P><img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Accursed cloud is now an AE versus an AE Dot and got boost</P> <P>9)  Grisly line is now a lifetap pet buff</P> <P>10) Our pet health to mana got whacked with a bat, I assume to keep us in line with everyone else (breeze only does 24 now, mana regen cap etc)</P> <P>Still looking for more, but if I missed some obvious ones please add em : )</P> <P>Thanks,</P>

[Lendis]

<DIV>The down arrows dont really mean much in practice, the pet on test performs at an outstanding level. ignore the arrows.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the conc costs of the buffs simply mean your going to have to adjust what spells are used for what tactics,, no more cast all 5 and be prepared for all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>as it stands on live you need all 3-5 pet buffs to make the pet worth using,  the pet buffs are so huge of an upgrade now, casting all 5 would be utterly ridiculous in what the pet would be able to do..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We go weakend in some areas and buffed in others, from a balance and performance view, im VERY happy with the changes so far, more dps, better pets, sure theres buff managing, but there has to be a downside to have an upside.</DIV>

[Lendis]

<DIV>Skinrot looks like a dot, but really, its still a nuke,  1 second ticks, so 5x initial damage, over 4 seconds with a 2 second cast/recast. basically a free extra damage tik, plus its slightly spread out and should help controll aggro a bit when soloing/group encounters, wich should be nice due to our increased dps</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[schrammy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lendis wrote:<BR> <DIV>The down arrows dont really mean much in practice, the pet on test performs at an outstanding level. ignore the arrows.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the conc costs of the buffs simply mean your going to have to adjust what spells are used for what tactics,, no more cast all 5 and be prepared for all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>as it stands on live you need all 3-5 pet buffs to make the pet worth using,  the pet buffs are so huge of an upgrade now, casting all 5 would be utterly ridiculous in what the pet would be able to do..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We go weakend in some areas and buffed in others, from a balance and performance view, im VERY happy with the changes so far, more dps, better pets, sure theres buff managing, but there has to be a downside to have an upside.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Are you playing on test atm? thx this comforts me alot. Hehe i'd like to see how the pet performs then with all possible buffs on it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[slyfer]

I wish we could copy out characters to test.  I so want to try out my Master Grim Terror.  Sounds like she will do an insane amount of damage.

[Lendis]

<DIV>I'm personally not on test, but ive been chatting with Rizaz for the majority of the morning, im going on his reports, and from what he's told me, the pets own now, and you can see the buffs, from his description, the caster pet performs better than the master1 thrall on the live servers atm.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm sure if ya ask Rizaz, hell parse and post some logs maybe. but his description in tells is good enough for me  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Named]

<DIV>Lendis doesn't play there there, but I was talking to him all morning..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let me tell you a story with my caster pet ( adept 1 ) and the lavastorm writ goblins....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was killing just one, testing out some neat spells and such and I casted Accursed Cloud. AC is now a true AE spell ( not encounter only ) and I agroed 6-7 of the level 45 solo con goblins. They all went straight to the pet and I just let them fight. About two minutes later, my caster pet had killed ALL of the goblins and it was only down to 60%. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>End of story - Pets are stronger now then they ever were!</DIV>

[schrammy]

<P>Well, i believe it too now <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</P> <P>Im starting to LOVE this patch lol, what a turnaround</P> <P>And i wish i had bought that master GT, <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</P> <p>Message Edited by schrammy on <span class=date_text>08-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:37 PM</span>

[Named]

<DIV>Rotting Thrall Buffed with Grisly Stele, Rending Frenzy, and Necromantic Symbol holds agro like a champ. He can actually peel off of me too.</DIV>

[schatjager]

Thanks for the great post.  I too feel better about the revamp but still keep saying "no matter what I will work around and re-learn my Necro" <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> Also it looks like our spell upgrades stay with us.  So even though Siphon Life moved up a couple levels it still stays Adept III (which is what I have as well).    Is there any info for the non-50 Nec's out there that have Adpet 3 Siphon Life?  (Say yesterday they have Adept 3 SL what do they have today?) <div></div>

[slyfer]

<P>Do caster pets stay farther away from the mob and tank now?</P> <P>What about casting of the Hearts line.  Are they all still on the same timer so you have to wait 30s?</P> <P>If you had to recommend one of the new spells that was added to upgrade to Adept III what would it be?</P>

[Allowen]

<DIV>Very nice ,I lived these changes much more then I disliked some things.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Positive:</DIV> <DIV>-Our Lifetabs are doing more damage and we are recovering more hp+low lv necros also getting a form of low lv version of this spell</DIV> <DIV>-Our Ae dot heal is not just Ae nuke, huge dps and heals us all at once,preaty nice upgrade, might put us closer to AE dps of warlock(even if they get a nice boost as well on those spells)</DIV> <DIV>-Swarm of bats, isntead decrease spell avoidance that was already nice it will debuff defense(wow)</DIV> <DIV>-Horrific mark of spells no longer decrease power(the power drain it had was lamme anyways) but will debuff wis/sta from the mobs and give to us !</DIV> <DIV>- magi's shielding got a very nice boost, much more worth to keep it always ,huge upgrade on defense melee and a new ward component.</DIV> <DIV>-root spells procing a slow (if it is slow movement orslow speed I dont know but nice anyways)on termination, nice upgrade and make this spell more usefull.</DIV> <DIV>-I LOVED  that they added a heal spell for us like the line we had on EQ1, we can now heal others or even help to heal our pets much more, makes us even more versatile class as we were on EQ1 )</DIV> <DIV>-seism, a low lv spell and wow, ultra uber spell now for those low lv mages )</DIV> <DIV>-pet s buffs are adding a haste pct and incrase of offensive skills and seems that will make warlock s pets to get less resists or do more possible max dam(?)</DIV> <DIV>-seems we will not be able to stack all pet s buffs, the positive side of this is that we can cast other buffs to be on concentration mode</DIV> <DIV>I guess that is it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Negative :</DIV> <DIV>-Our blight/torrention plague spells still suck a lot, expecialy now when compared to accursed coud/seism line of spells.</DIV> <DIV>-the devouth healh line of spell got power/tic redulced a lot,but I guess we are still the best class in terms of power regen(I hope)</DIV> <DIV>-now we got to decide to cast a pet s offensive or defensive buff,both will not stack</DIV> <DIV>-we lost our  ward spell that we could cast on ourselves, pet or ally to be pet s only defensive buff now,anyways it might be possible to make grim/shadowy pets able to tank some thing+ hold agro without need to realy need to get warrior pet.</DIV> <DIV>-I guess our summoned clickie items  heart things will do a lot less power regen (sacrificial heart master is 266power and err68(I think) uber spell).</DIV> <DIV>-our invisible spells are the same as other classes, seems more slow movement penality and no more proc nuke/heal when we get hit by mob or falling.</DIV> <DIV>-Lich spell stil sucks but seems they added a low lv of this spell as well( ? ) but maybe since power regen got that nefred from Devour health line then lich is notthat bad if it stays as it was before.</DIV> <DIV>-we will get a lot less power regen/tic and our spells besides the fact of getting stronger they are using more power to cast most spells.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>resume:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-So far as I see these changes seems fun but on same time scares me, the fights will be strange, expecialy the raids,with the nerf our our power regen spells and I guess the nerf on clarity and clickie items ...when ppl is near oopower in a raid might be better to die and get ressed to pop at 50pct power since power regen will be low((?)</DIV> <DIV>-I bet we will no longer cast spells in chain like bards on EQ1 cause,any ways it is ok I guess since they will do so much damage...</DIV> <DIV>-I dont think because we can do like almost 1k dam with our lifetab high lv spell that solo mobs will die in a sec,mobs should get a good boost on hp,ac and resists, might not means much to do more damage if the solo mobs we kil lthen on same time as we do then now.</DIV> <DIV>-I saw no talk about other trainning skills other then those trainning pets, I am scared</DIV> <DIV>-Will we still get a snare dot spell trainning skill since it seems they might kill agro kiting thing since pets will be a lot more stronger?will we need to use defensive buff on pet always when soloing, realy no way to kite+offensice?</DIV> <DIV>-Is 24 secs the max duration of dots and snare/debuffs still ?</DIV> <DIV>-What about warlock/rogue pets, are they ready usefull now ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I guess that is it for now and lets hope every thigns goes ok, that game became more fun, more fair, not easy cause if things goes too easy it can become boring as it did to many necros I know,some quit game cause all too easy ,easy to get master spells, or got just bored cause no versatile of necros on this game as we had ways to fight and help a raid as on Eq1.We all got an idea for now on what spells we should upgrade asap before expansion pack and on the minor update on combat revamp</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Allowen</DIV> <DIV>50 necro</DIV> <DIV>YUH guild</DIV> <DIV>Mistmoore server</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[MrGrimm9]

<P>I like what I see, the future looks promising I believe... besides the power regen nerf and the conc thing... and our buffs sucking, looks like we got majorly upgraded</P> <P>But I think overall it looks very good</P>

[xAlar]

<BR> <p>Message Edited by xAlaric on <span class=date_text>09-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:30 PM</span>

[DarkelfNecro]

Thanks for all the info, keep it comming! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Kirotaan]

Thanks for the screenies awesome!  Sounds like some of the special traits might be a lot better picks now compaired to the plain old ones.  Kinda sucks we cna't use all our buffs but I was only using about 4 conc anyways of "real" buffs when I was playing anyways. <div></div>

[Boran]

Thanks for the screenies Rizaz got a lot more to work with now (and sorry for the tell from Rattikus on IoR <span>:smileywink:</span>)

[Lodor]

<DIV>Lich change?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It states it adds damage to any disease spell.  Any idea what that exactly means and does?</DIV>

[Gargamel]

<DIV>Overall pretty good, but I hope some things are imporved further through more testing.  Sounds like a good start though.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Only rough spots I can see:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Invis is getting hammered... though I guess as long as its true for all classes, what can ya do.  "Invis" Adept I now caps at a lvl 24 invis, which I guess means all mobs lvl 25 and up will 'see though' it.  I know I used that up to lvl 31 before (Adept I) and was able to sneak by enemies UP TO 2 lvls above my 'current' level... which would be up to lvl 33mobs... now Invis will stop working at 25.  The next level one 'Cloak of Venril" is given at lvl 32.6 and caps (with Adept I) at 36!?!  That seems a bit quick if you ask me, mabye that can get raised (unless the master ones go into the mid/upper 40s)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our Power Regen spells got whacked, but we've known for a while know they were severely reducing power regen across the board for all classes worldwide in combant and out for.  I would hope our Hearts would give more not less after patch, but as long as its 'more' than your average lame totem or 'regular' drink I guess it will be worth it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Grisly Brace is no longer a straight ward.  Its more of a 'get aggro off me' spell.  If you get hit mob gets hit for 20 and you healed for 5?  Those numbers can't be right, but anyway, mob attacks slow down by 20%, hate rate increased by 25% , and weakend to physical attacks by 250 (ie that tank can do MORE physical dmg, and get 25% more hate for it to draw aggro faster/easier).  Not as 'safe' as a ward, but certainly more Necro-y, and it seems to be concentration based which might be a plus or a minus depending on how 'in demand' they are for each class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Gargamel on <span class=date_text>08-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:57 PM</span>

[Feleta157]

<P>The way I understood invis to work (and there's a good chance I'm wrong :smileyvery-happy: ) is that anything that is red con to the invis lvl cap would see through it. So if invis caps at lvl 24, then anything that's red to a lvl 24 would see through it. Meaning, if you have to use that spell when you are lvl 27 orange mobs would see through your invis. I haven't really tested this though.</P> <P>Feleta Dux'Cruor</P>

[Garlin1]

<DIV>All I can say is have fun with the changes.  We will effectively do less DPS then before.  Keep in mind a few things as in our main stay dot was turned into a limited pet spell.  It basically summons a zombie that stands around and causes mobs to take damage all around em.  Any any sort of RAID enviroment or caster with AE enviroment we lose what damage potential we really had.  As it stands (yes I have played with the new spells quite throughly) Death's Coil is our big dot and it is near half the damage Stench was.  With the addition of a healing spell and the ability to rez in combat I am starting to feel like a watered down defiler with a pet.  BTW caster pet is doing 200-300 damage less changed a spell.  My caster on live is doing the exact same right now so nothing really changed.  Assassin at master 1 was not putting out damage that made me go "WoW" at all.  300ish specials and most things seem to miss that he does.</DIV>

[quamdar]

does FD actually work like it says or does it still wokr on any level 100% of the time? <div></div>

[Nainitsuj]

Did they fix our pets?  How do they perform?  Does the zombie have animations?

[Garlin1]

<DIV>FD has been toned down a lot.  It was not working for me on some high lvl mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pets need to be twinked IMO a lil more due to changes to our dps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pets may tank like crazy now but I bet ya money it will be reduced because of the whole con system thingy.</DIV>

[Urbanna]

<span><blockquote><hr>Nainitsuj wrote:Did they fix our pets?  How do they perform?  Does the zombie have animations? <div></div><hr></blockquote>Driving me nuts that no one has mentioned this yet from test................=) though it sounds like i can use my other pets as well....</span><div></div>

[Nainitsuj]

That'd be sweet.  Controlling the tank, warlock and assassin pet all at once.  We'd be the uber solo class and could you imagine the raids? 

[Named]

<DIV>Zombie doesn't have animations.</DIV>

[prince_sd]

<DIV>We mentioned the stench of grave change. Look at my other post.</DIV> <DIV>That is the only nasty change we got. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But Giga, i don't know why you say we will do less dps. Death's coil + stench of grave together in old and new form should do the same damage. Remember, death's coil is low dps and a pain because of long cast time in the current form.</DIV> <DIV>Also, siphon life does twice the amount of damage, accursed cloud got dps boost. Even skinrot does twice damage now. Torrential plague is aoe so more damage.</DIV> <DIV>And our rat recast was shortened. Thats a big jump in dps. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think our dps got a boost.</DIV>

[Lendis]

<DIV>less dps? not from what ive seen so far from parses.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>your caster on live hits for 200-300? ive NEVER seen mine nuke for more than 180. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the assassin live doesnt even remotly come close to 300dmg specials. avg dmg from the assassin currently is 60-90- 130ish on specials.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>parsed pets on test are doing between 50-90 dps.. umm. my pets on live are lucky to break 30 most raids. and i have mast thrall/[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] and ad3 terror.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>its VERY easy to reach 300ish dps on test atm. whereas on live im lucky if i can break 200.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Where exactly do you get less overall dps?</DIV>

[ChrisRay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lendis wrote:<BR> <DIV>less dps? not from what ive seen so far from parses.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>your caster on live hits for 200-300? ive NEVER seen mine nuke for more than 180.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the assassin live doesnt even remotly come close to 300dmg specials. avg dmg from the assassin currently is 60-90- 130ish on specials.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>parsed pets on test are doing between 50-90 dps.. umm. my pets on live are lucky to break 30 most raids. and i have mast thrall/[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] and ad3 terror.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>its VERY easy to reach 300ish dps on test atm. whereas on live im lucky if i can break 200.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Where exactly do you get less overall dps?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Pets are doing more damage. There is no doubt about it. However supposively ((Though I dont believe this at my level) we are doing less DPS overall because our spells are supposively less powerful. I'm only 32 and I've only been able to test it. Both my scout and mage pet do significantly more damage than on live. My fighter pets offensive capabilities are down. ((significantly)) Rats is doing alot more damage for me at a very minimal power consumption.  When I mean alot. I mean significantly.</P> <P>Pestilient Blast does more damage. However it takes 5 seconds to occur. ((1 tick every second of dot duration)). Lifetaps do a nice portion of damage at minimal power cost. ((Level 20 one))  However. if you're one of those people who likes to stack 7-8 dots. You're gonna be disapointed. I personally hate that style of play and much prefer the new necromancer. From my perspective. I am doing more overall damage at my level.</P> <p>Message Edited by ChrisRay on <span class=date_text>08-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:01 PM</span>

[Romka]

Less DPS??? <b>Guys, are you BLIND?</b> Please, I BEG you - look into new Lich spell. What it says? "<b>All of the lich's disease based hostile spells siphon additional health from the target and adding the health to the lich.</b>" At Adept 1 it is 296 damage and 142 heal on EVERY SINGLE disease attacks. (Thnx God I got m1 version =) And now. Look into Skinrot. Disease damage EVERY second. Look into Death's Coil. Disease damage every 4 seconds. Torrential Plague. Disease damage every 3 seconds in AOE. And IF I READ IT RIGHT (oh and I hope I read it right...) - we are now easily can do 500+ DPS with just 3 spells. <div></div>

[Lodor]

Yeah thats why i asked about the new lich spell in the revamp but noone else has commented on it besides you.

[Romka]

Can some 50lvl necromancer from Test server (or DoF Beta - you are no longer under CC NDA) confirm that Lich is working in the way description says? And if no - how it works then? <div></div>

[Named]

<DIV>No -- It doesn't work like that. It seems to work EXACTLY how it does now. I really have no idea what that added thing does, and I havent seen it proc/trigger once and i've been playing/dueling all day.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If anybody else has other theories about this proc, please let me know so I can test them out. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Romka]

<span><blockquote><hr>Named88 wrote:<div>No -- It doesn't work like that. It seems to work EXACTLY how it does now. I really have no idea what that added thing does, and I havent seen it proc/trigger once and i've been playing/dueling all day.</div> <div> </div> <div>If anybody else has other theories about this proc, please let me know so I can test them out. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><hr></blockquote>Then you should /bug it IMO =)</span><div></div>

[quamdar]

"all of the lich's disease based hostile spells siphon additional health from the target and adding the health to the lich." that is what the description says, what i wonder though is dots are only effected by this once or every tick (every tick would be awesome but extremely insane)  also would horrific mark do this damage as well.   if this isn't doing any damage though please god /bug it i want that bad boy working when it goes live that is gonna be a huge amount of DPS added. <div></div>

[Nibbl]

<DIV><FONT size=2> <P>Looks like Necros are real Necros now, lifetaps, lots of undead spells, disease spells.... Spells look positive at first glance. Wish I had a necro on test to try these out before September 12th. They also look very similar to EQ1 necro abilities with several twists on how they work, summoned DoTs <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> SoE has always treated necros well <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P></FONT></DIV>

[Nagazch]

<DIV>Dark Greetings...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A huge thanks to all the beta / test / hackers who are posting all this wonderfully evil stuff !!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Have a few question that I hope you test pets can answer... /PETS ANSWER !!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Pets:</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>Tank pets are used for tanking when soloing hard mobs, Mage pets are higest DPS and used in groups, raids (stays out of mob AE range now) or to grind low con mobs, Assassin pets are... erm... w00t ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Illusions:</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>Did they fix / replace any of our illusion spells ? Fixed adept III Lich hair piece ? Replaced the lvl 50 illus ? etc. etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Pet DPS:</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>Seems to be mixed opinions about pet dps. Could anyone do a little parsing perhaps ? With defensive / offensive stance buffs, do the buffs affect the mage pet or only melee pets ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Vision spell:</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>Is the "seeing through pet eyes spell" of any use or is it just great fun ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Raiding:</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>I for one am pusing buttons constantly on raids. Did raiding become a stress hell with our new combat rezz and heal abilities ? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Power Regen:</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>You didnt even need lich or drink to stay at full power before. With pet taps being nerfed, how is the power income when using drinks, lich and new pet taps ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>General DPS:</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>Hard to tell how much DPS we're doing as all other classes and npc's have changed as well. What is the general impression of the dps output when grouping and raiding on the test server ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Sacrificial Hearts:</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>Did anything change at all ? Was hoping that we wouldnt have to spend 15 min buffing the whole raid but seems that is not the case...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Summoner and Mage spells:</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>Did we get rid of any of these weak mortal spells ? Or do we still use essence shift, agitation, bludgeoning earth for nox immune mobs, splinter of essence, etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>The big rotting picture:</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>As a Necromancer freak, how is the general Necrotic feel now ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If anyone takes their time to answer, I thank you with all of my sacrificial heart...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh, and lets run amok, PM all devs and spam the boards till they fix our Zombie animation... Disapointed that it wasnt a part of revamp. Why isnt this fixed yet !? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>*EDIT* Feel free to let out your anger about the Zombie animation here:</EM></DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=58087" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=58087</A></DIV><p>Message Edited by Nagazch on <span class=date_text>08-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:23 AM</span>

[ChrisRay]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>General DPS:</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>Hard to tell how much DPS we're doing as all other classes and npc's have changed as well. What is the general impression of the dps output when grouping and raiding on the test server ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#3366ff>IMO the DPS is fairly similar. However the difference you have to look at is rather different. Sustained DPS verses burst DPS. Necromancers on live tend to have a high sustained DPS.  Most of the changes IMO have increased our burst DPS. Meaning we do more over shorter periods of time.  ((Rats so far have been a big factor in this)) The Burst DPS was always the necromancer weak point in standard groups and it has been IMO greatly enhanced.</FONT><BR>

[Garlin1]

<DIV>LESS DPS in a Raid Situation where a raid mob casts AES is what I meant.  The lack of a static dot doing 200 ish damage a tick for the entire duration of a raid is where I meant our dps would suffer.  </DIV>

[Named]

<DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Nagazch wrote:</P> <P><STRONG>Pets:</STRONG></P> <DIV>Tank pets are used for tanking when soloing hard mobs, Mage pets are higest DPS and used in groups, raids (stays out of mob AE range now) or to grind low con mobs, Assassin pets are... erm... w00t ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Assassin pets seem to be a long fight dps pet. The Warlock runs out of mana after nuking for about a minute, ( He regens really fast out of combat ) so you would probally want to use the Assassin pet for raids and other big 5+ minute fights. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <DIV><STRONG>Illusions:</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>Did they fix / replace any of our illusion spells ? Fixed adept III Lich hair piece ? Replaced the lvl 50 illus ? etc. etc.<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Actually, the level 50 illusion seems broken atm. You don't even get a buff when you cast it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <DIV><STRONG>Pet DPS:</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>Seems to be mixed opinions about pet dps. Could anyone do a little parsing perhaps ? With defensive / offensive stance buffs, do the buffs affect the mage pet or only melee pets ?</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Check out my other thread:  <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=30&message.id=8725" target=_blank><FONT color=#c8c1b5>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=30&message.id=8725</FONT></A></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#c8c1b5></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#c8c1b5><BR></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#c8c1b5></FONT> <HR> <DIV><STRONG>Vision spell:</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>Is the "seeing through pet eyes spell" of any use or is it just great fun ?</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>This spell is also broken. And the spell is to see through an ALLIES' eyes, not your pets. <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif" width=16 border=0></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <DIV><STRONG>Power Regen:</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>You didnt even need lich or drink to stay at full power before. With pet taps being nerfed, how is the power income when using drinks, lich and new pet taps ?</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yesterday I was dueling a level 50 templar. Going slow burn ( Death's coil/skinrot/siphon life ) I was able to maintain nearly full mana with lich and castng Devour Health.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <DIV><STRONG>Sacrificial Hearts:</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>Did anything change at all ? Was hoping that we wouldnt have to spend 15 min buffing the whole raid but seems that is not the case...</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>They are still relatively powerful. The master Sac Heart is now + 60 mana, + 60 every 4 seconds for 5 ticks for a total of 360 mana over 20 seconds. Also the Dark heart line and the Splinter of Essence share a recast and reuse timer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <DIV><STRONG>Summoner and Mage spells:</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>Did we get rid of any of these weak mortal spells ? Or do we still use essence shift, agitation, bludgeoning earth for nox immune mobs, splinter of essence, etc.</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>These all share recast timers with some of the higher level spells. Essence shift is tied with Devour Health, etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <DIV><STRONG>The big rotting picture:</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>As a Necromancer freak, how is the general Necrotic feel now ?</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I like it. <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif" width=16 border=0><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV>

[HollowMan11]

<DIV>Wow looks like some good changes coming.  Does anyone know when the patch is actually going to take place?</DIV>

[See]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> HollowMan11 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Does anyone know when the patch is actually going to take place?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>September 12<BR>

[Aviral]

<DIV>Any defensive pet buffs before lvl 28?  From the list I do not see one and believe conjur's got one at 20ish, where we get a offensive buff at 26 and finally first defensive at 28.</DIV>

[El Chupacabr]

<P>I do have some concerns regarding this patch... I'm thinking it's not as good a deal as it looks on the surface.</P> <P><STRONG>Pre-combat change utility:</STRONG></P> <P>Group buffing/benefit:</P> <UL> <LI>See invisible <LI>See stealth <LI>3 second cast, 20 second recast out of combat rez <LI>Underwater breathing <LI>Feign death (self only) <LI>+35 intelligence <LI>+25 stamina <LI>+1353 disease mitigation <LI>+644 magic mitigation <LI>+644 poison mitigation <LI>+235 power <LI>+363 health <LI>1% chance of groupmate being healed for 500 when struck by the mob <LI>2 second cast, 30 second recast health to power transfer item <LI>Single target invisibility <LI>626 point ward vs. trauma and noxious damage, 16 second recast (single target) <LI>200 point lifetap.  2 second cast, 9 second recast <LI>Various methods of self power regen</LI></UL> <P>Mob debuffing/detriment:</P> <UL> <LI>4 second cast, 7.7 second duration, 45 second recast stun.  Does not effect epics <LI>1 second cast, 12 second duration, 20 second recast high resist rate fear.  Does not effect epics <LI>3 second cast, 36 second duration, 12 second recast root.  Does not effect epics and breaks upon pet attack <LI>-2964 disease mitigation <LI>-2964 poison mitigation <LI>-35 strength <LI>-35 agility <LI>-29 wisdom <LI>-29 stamina <LI>14 point power drain every 4.2 seconds <LI>-5 spell avoidance (bloodlines spell so shared with conjurers)</LI></UL> <DIV><STRONG>Post-combat change utility:</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Group buffing/benefit:</P> <UL> <LI>See invisible/see stealth (1 concentration) <LI>4 second cast, 60 second recast combat rez <LI>Underwater breathing (1 concentration) <LI>Feign death (self only) <LI>+12 intelligence/+12 stamina (1 concentration) Note that mark of the miasmic and teachings of the dead buff the group for the same amount.  <LI>+588 disease mitigation/+470 poison mitigation/+262 power (one concentration) <LI>2 second cast, 30 second recast health to power transfer item <LI>Single target invisibility (1 concentration)   <LI>413 point lifetap.  2 second cast, 9 second recast (various other lifetaps as well) <LI>Various methods of self power regen</LI> <LI>450pt targetable heal.  2 second cast, 8 second recast.</LI></UL> <P>Mob debuffing/detriment:</P> <UL> <LI>2 second cast, 8 second duration, 45 second recast stun.  Does not effect epics <LI>1 second cast, 12 second duration, 30 second recast fear.  Does not effect epics <LI>2 second cast, 108 second duration, 16 second recast root.  Does not effect epics and has a chance to fear upon breaking <LI>-37 wisdom <LI>-37 stamina</LI></UL> <P><STRONG>Pet stuff post combat change:</STRONG></P> <UL> <LI>Rending Frenzy, berserk pet buff (1 concentration)</LI> <LI>Words of the wicked, offensive pet buff (2 concentration)</LI> <LI>Grisly stele, defensive pet buff (2 concentration)</LI> <LI>Necromantic symbol, 25% chance to debuff a mobs noxious mitigation.  This will be a good spell so long as the debuff is truely cumulative.</LI></UL> <P><STRONG>My concerns:</STRONG></P> <P>Can't use magi's shielding anymore and have to choose between teachings of the dead and rending frenzy for buffing... maybe that's why teachings doesn't upgrade mark of the miasmic like it's s'posed to.</P> <P>Horrible spot healing, 10 seconds to heal for 450 is not good at all.</P> <P>One minute recast combat rez, way too long a recast timer for a 4 second cast spell.</P> <P>It's going to take approximately 36 successfull pet attacks on a target to debuff noxious for what we used to be able to do within our first three casts (again, if the debuff is truely cumulative).  Another concern I have is that when resummoning a pet after it runs out of power, is all the debuffing done by necromantic symbol removed?</P> <P>Do the concentration pet buffs stay up even without a pet?  Since these are concentration spells, will they effect all pets in group (I'm of the opinion they should) and all the swarm type spells (again, I'm of the opinion they should).</P> <P><STRONG>Synopsis:</STRONG></P> <P>Yes, we're getting a pretty good damage upgrade but our group utility is actually going into the dirt.  I've been of the opinion for quite a while that if we're going to be in T2 and T3 of the damage rankings, we should have the utility to go with it.  It seems to me that we took a big, fat nerf in the utility department and ended up with about the same utility of the T1's again.  The sorcerers root got nerfed, our tank pets damage got nerfed (by 50-60%).</P> <P>Perhaps I am reading the new spells wrong and if so, someone please comfort me... all-in-all I am not very happy with the combat changes for necro's, we got some increased damage at the cost of almost all our group utility (which was the lowest of the mages to begin with).  Conji's are in much the same boat as the necro's since they have the same concentration problems we do.</P> <P>Am I missing something here?</P>

[KBern]

<P>The concentration restrictions alone is enough to make the game not fun for me.</P> <P>Want to EB, need 1 conc point.  Want to invis, need one conc point.  </P> <P>I looked last night at lvl 44, I have 4 self/group buffs, 3 pet buffs, and the pet up.</P> <P>I wont be able to use maybe 2-3 buffs total if I have a pet up and buffed?  And got forbid I want to go invis, or use EB, I need to cancel my pet, or drop some buffs?</P> <P>I am concerned about that most of all.  The changes look nice, but when we can only use 1/5 of our powers at any time, it seems very unbalanced.</P>

[xxArcane]

<DIV>I agree.. I think the fact that our pet buffs are gunna use 2 conc slots is [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] and not needed at all for balance.</DIV>

[Kalsy]

<DIV>The concentration slots dont bother me.  I like the idea of having to choose based on the situation.  I also think with the combat changes, pretty much every other class is having to deal with the same situation of choosing how to use concentration slots.  The problem I have is what will a necros role be on a raid?  We wont be tanking, we wont be healing, we wont be buffing, we wont be debuffing, and at best we are a Tier 2 DPS class assuming we can even keep a pet alive.  Tier 1 DPS classes like assassin and warlock are getting better debuffs and utility than necros.  Not to mention the other Tier 2 DPS classes like brigand and swashbuckler.  The one that really confuses me is no debuff noxious spell.  I know we have a pet buff which has a 25% chance to debuff noxious, but that seems to fall way short.  I  guess we will have to wait and see how everything shakes out, but I think as of right now our debuffs seem to be lacking the most. </DIV>

[Orwelli]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KBern wrote:<BR> <P>The concentration restrictions alone is enough to make the game not fun for me.</P> <P>Want to EB, need 1 conc point.  Want to invis, need one conc point. </P> <P>I looked last night at lvl 44, I have 4 self/group buffs, 3 pet buffs, and the pet up.</P> <P>I wont be able to use maybe 2-3 buffs total if I have a pet up and buffed?  And got forbid I want to go invis, or use EB, I need to cancel my pet, or drop some buffs?</P> <P>I am concerned about that most of all.  The changes look nice, but when we can only use 1/5 of our powers at any time, it seems very unbalanced.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I have to ask...</P> <P>Casting some buffs <EM>once</EM> when you first get started and letting them stay up until you quit playing is "fun"?</P> <P>As things are now, we aren't forced to make any significant choices at all. We fire up all our buffs once, and then never think about it again. Personally, I hardly see the point of even having a button I'm supposed to press to cast a spell that stays up 24/7 anyway...</P> <P>It will take some getting used to, but I commend the Devs for actually "smartening up" the game rather than the alternative. I like choices and challenges.<BR></P>

[KBern]

<P>Fun for me is not having to micro-manage my character for every possible engagement.  Fun for me is paying attention to the fight, and making decision while I am fighting.</P> <P>Picking and choosing random buffs for me or my pet prior for every fight is not fun IMHO.</P> <P>Giving us many buffs to use for ourselves and our pets, but not being able to use 80% of them, is not fun.</P> <P>Having to tediously drop buffs to go invis or to see invis, or to cast EB, is not fun.</P> <P>I guess a fair answer to your question is no, that is not fun for me, that is tedious and time consuming.</P> <P>My necro is fun to play because of fight mechanics, agro management, damage management, etc.  </P> <P>The amount of concentration slots per buff is crazy.  Did you read it will cost us 3 slots for magi shielding?  So then you can call your pet, and not even be able to use words of the wicked due to it costing 2 points?  </P> <P>No, that is definately something I am not looking forward to dealing with.</P>

[El Chupacabr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Orwellian wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KBern wrote:<BR> <P>The concentration restrictions alone is enough to make the game not fun for me.</P> <P>Want to EB, need 1 conc point.  Want to invis, need one conc point. </P> <P>I looked last night at lvl 44, I have 4 self/group buffs, 3 pet buffs, and the pet up.</P> <P>I wont be able to use maybe 2-3 buffs total if I have a pet up and buffed?  And got forbid I want to go invis, or use EB, I need to cancel my pet, or drop some buffs?</P> <P>I am concerned about that most of all.  The changes look nice, but when we can only use 1/5 of our powers at any time, it seems very unbalanced.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I have to ask...</P> <P>Casting some buffs <EM>once</EM> when you first get started and letting them stay up until you quit playing is "fun"?</P> <P>As things are now, we aren't forced to make any significant choices at all. We fire up all our buffs once, and then never think about it again. Personally, I hardly see the point of even having a button I'm supposed to press to cast a spell that stays up 24/7 anyway...</P> <P>It will take some getting used to, but I commend the Devs for actually "smartening up" the game rather than the alternative. I like choices and challenges.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>What choices are there?  That is the real point.  A fully buffed pet will take up 4 concentration, leaving room for one group buff.  It is possible that using the warlock pets you can get away with not using rending frenzy and use teachings of the dead for the amazing +12 stamina/int.</P> <P>After that, there is only see invis, underwater breathing and magi's shielding.  I can't think of a single instance I'd choose magi's with the three concentration slots over any other two or three buffs.</P> <P>There are no options in buffing as those other than the pet's aren't of a high enough quality to justify sacrificing the pet buffing.</P>

[KBern]

<P>Exactly Chup.</P> <P>We wont really have much of a choice because the slots we have will be used for our pet, one pet buff, and possibly one self buff, but more than likely it will be an additional pet buff.</P> <P>It is not so much as getting choices as being restricted in our choices.</P> <P>I hope I am wrong, but it seems fairly black and white.</P>

[Urbanna]

<span><blockquote><hr>KBern wrote:<div></div> <p>Fun for me is not having to micro-manage my character for every possible engagement.  Fun for me is paying attention to the fight, and making decision while I am fighting.</p> <p>Picking and choosing random buffs for me or my pet prior for every fight is not fun IMHO.</p> <p>Giving us many buffs to use for ourselves and our pets, but not being able to use 80% of them, is not fun.</p> <p>Having to tediously drop buffs to go invis or to see invis, or to cast EB, is not fun.</p> <p>I guess a fair answer to your question is no, that is not fun for me, that is tedious and time consuming.</p> <p>My necro is fun to play because of fight mechanics, agro management, damage management, etc.  </p> <p>The amount of concentration slots per buff is crazy.  Did you read it will cost us 3 slots for magi shielding?  So then you can call your pet, and not even be able to use words of the wicked due to it costing 2 points?  </p> <p>No, that is definately something I am not looking forward to dealing with.</p><hr></blockquote>Eh....I know where you're coming from, but I personally *like* to analyze and pick and chose and micro-manage my tactics to perfection. I love coming up with better tactics and having to think things through instead of mindless killing. And I hate doing it during combat, because to me...it's just plain frustrating having to click something at the exact time or you're dead (especially with lag in any form). I like the methodical, tactical strategy of chosing my weapons, what I'm going to do, how i'll do it before the fight, then executing it with only minor on-the-fly adjustments. In this respect, I think the game is going in a cool direction. Some of the concentration slot issues are very limiting, but I'll deal with it when it goes live.</span><div></div>

[KBern]

<P>Well that is what scares me.  </P> <P>I love my necro.  I enjoy playing him.  I am excited about the pet changes and dot stacking.  </P> <P>The concentration slot issues though is like a black warning cloud to me.</P> <P>I honestly feel we will be restricted with our choices and buffs, not being given a more strategic approach to playing.</P> <P> </P>

[Deson]

<div></div><div></div>Just occured to me- any word on Grim presence? Are our non warlock pets getting group buffs as well to add to their utility?Also, some one suggested earlier that pet stances should also apply to us. A built in Magi Shield or some such for our pet stances since none of the other mages will have to deal with our unique issues with concentration. I've got mixed feelings on Rending Frenzy as well. On the one hand it <i>is</i> a wholly separate buff for our pets that likely will only be used with our melee pets. On the other, our group utility is sorely lacking compared to other mage classes-even Conj's- so I'd rather not have to make choices about  that. Im personally hoping we get something like castable lifetap procs or trainings that genuinely upgrade spell lines. I tend to look at this from the perspective that we are potentially four classes in one. From what I've seen, only summoners really have offensive and defensive stances. Granted, at the moment they are for the pet but they are also optional as they are for tanks and scouts. I don't mind making choices. I just want them to be on par with another class's choices. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Deson on <span class="date_text">08-08-2005</span> <span class="time_text">03:38 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Deson on <span class=date_text>08-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:40 PM</span>

[quamdar]

i don't really see a problem with the concentration slots other than invis taking a concentration slot and only being 10 minutes, [Removed for Content] is that?  but all the other stuff what is the big deal, you swap offensive for defensive stance occasionally and maybe aspect of undead for teachings of the dead or EB or whatever.  i know you have to click your mouse twice to do this and all but i would rather have buffs specified for offense or defense that work better for that purpose than one set of mediocre DPS and defense buffs.  personally i can't wait for these changes and even with concentration changes they are still very nice. i think the only problem is our group buffs are becoming very useless it looks like and alot of our DPS looks like it will come from rats/zombie which in a raid situation will die in one AE(zombie with the AE nuke or whatever won't iibe used at all if you need a mezz). <div></div>

[Deson]

Not including non combat utility spells, if the changes go live as is we are all but garaunteed to start down 3 conc slots. As summoners-necro's especially, having our pets out is not really optional and since in groups our role more than likely will be maximizng dps, having our pets stanced wont really be an option.We start off automatcally down 3 conc slots.Conj's will at least be getting proc buffs for their groups so that's a viable option, we get effectively nothing but our pets. That leaves two conc slots for us that ostensibly go to the group buffs. I'm not sure if I read this right so correct me if I'm wrong but sorc's and chanters are getting conc single target buffs that  they can cast on every group member.  If they like, they dont even have to use Magi shielding because they shouldn't be getting aggro if they are augmenting the group.Thats 3 slots that are optional for them that simply wont be for us(well, 2 for chanters-clarity). When it comes down to it, the other mages have more options than we do. I do enjoy what I see for the changes. Brings back memories of my EQ1 necro doing it all but, like I said, I enjoy haveig options that are really options. Oh, and those heal timers are way too long. With those heals coming straight from the necro's health, that should be a pretty effective gating on its use heh. Even spamming 450 heals right after the current casting time 1.even with taps,no necro has the healh to support that for more than a few casts and 2. unless that necro was sitting  doing nothing the whole fight he <b>will </b>pull aggro and die because he's low on health. Even if you  count groups of necros, on a 10 second recast they could easily set up a rotation to render it  moot. <div></div>

[Daryth_Shadowspawn]

I think the in combat rez is HUGE.  Instead of a priest having to jump out of heal rotation, we can let our dots continue damaging the mob while we take a few seconds to a fallen raid member.  Slap a heal on them and they are back in the mix.  If thats not utility I dont know what is.  You cant easily put a value on something like that. <div></div>

[Deson]

<div></div><div></div><div></div>I don't raid. I agree it's huge but, very situational unlike the grouping options of my peers in the mage archetype to include conj's. For necro's pet's are not optional. I'm looking at conj skills now to see how much group utility they can offer for those three slots we'll have to have the pet up. I don't mind being perma petted. It's one reason I picked the class. My issue is that in the area of choice, I'm sorely lacking compared to my peers.Other archetypes have a variety of choices they can make with their conc slots, we have 2- Rending frenzy or a group buff- and even that is only if you aren't using the warlock. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Deson on <span class="date_text">08-08-2005</span> <span class="time_text">05:36 PM </span></p> <p><span class="time_text">I don't want to derail pure discussion of the changes so I'm starting a new thread comparing our group utility with other mages, starting with Conj's </span></p> <p><span class="time_text">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=30&message.id=8885&jump=true </span></p> <p>Message Edited by Deson on <span class="date_text">08-08-2005</span> <span class="time_text">05:38 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Deson on <span class=date_text>08-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:38 PM</span>

[quamdar]

<div></div><div></div>can someone post what the upgraded rezz changes?  i think in live they are all the same not sure on that though just wanna know if it is more HP or what. also can you still pull past mobs with pet without getting aggro it says for invis that it "grants level 46 invis to pet" which really worries me for some reason. <div></div><p> <span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by quamdar on <span class=date_text>08-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:31 AM</span>

[Uglukson]

<FONT size=2> <P>In-combat rez isn't that fantastic, especially with a one-minute recast. It's good, but it's not like we're the only non-priest class that can do it. What's more, what other utility do we offer that someone else doesn't do better (usually by a lot)? We gain some poor healing utility, improved ability to keep ourselves alive with lifetaps, but a worse resist rate to go along with this because we can no longer noxious debuff like we could. Our physical/noxious damage rune is gone. One of the main uses of the Mark line (i.e. noxious debuff) has disappeared. We still have our slow, non-scaling stun, where the mob has killed whoever it was trying to kill by the time we've finished casting. Root improvement is nice, but we're still far from first choice there. We really only get the Heart line, and even then getting a feed from a sorceror is a lot easier than equipping the heart (at the expense of something else), using it, and putting something back in your equippable slot.</P> <P>Some of the upgrades look very nice, but our utility is shot to pieces. Way too much significance is being attached to the benefits of FD (of dubious benefit in EQ2 full stop), in-combat rezzing and pets. Our group buffs are nerfed into insignificance, and that's before we're forced to choose between them and pet buffs. On a raid mob, the fact that a lot of mobs do AE damage makes our pets somewhat of a liability as well. In fact, what they could do to fix that is allow us to park our warlock pets, so they only attack at range instead of running in to melee. That would make me feel a lot better about our sustainable DPS on almost all raid targets.</P> <P>A question about the Rats line - on Test, if one dies, do they all die? I think that they should have to be killed individually, and what's more, any spell where you summon a pet that can be killed should not be resistable.</P> <P>On the micromanagement of buffs: if EQ2 was a slow-paced game, then this sort of micromanagement would be more called for. Combat is so fast-paced though that having to micromanage our buffs/pet buffs is a liability. Who wants to be swapping buffs when they could be in combat? This goes for all classes rather than particularly necros though. In our case, having to make some choices isn't a bad thing, but I think they've gone over the top by making some of our pet buffs 2 conc slots. If they choose to go down this path, they should leave us with configurations that won't need rapid changes depending on the role we're trying to fill. Bringing Grisly Stele/Words of the Wicked back to one slot should help with this. If they feel that this would allow us to buff our pets too much, fix it by making them not stack rather than adding concentration slots.</P> <P>So, in summary, my suggestions:</P> <P>- improve our new heal to something more useful</P> <P>- bring our buffs back to their current (live server) levels</P> <P>- reinstate the noxious debuff component into the Mark line of spells, or adjust our resist rates accordingly</P> <P>- make our stun a faster cast, and make it scale with level of the spell</P> <P>- make all pet buffs cost 1 conc slot, and having them affect all pets in group would be nice</P> <P>- give warlock pets the ability to attack solely at range, rather than melee</P> <P>- remove resist rates from any pet summoning attacks</P></FONT>

[Named]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Uglukson wrote:<FONT size=2> <P>So, in summary, my suggestions:</P> <P>- improve our new heal to something more useful</P> <P>- bring our buffs back to their current (live server) levels</P> <P>- reinstate the noxious debuff component into the Mark line of spells, or adjust our resist rates accordingly</P> <P>- make our stun a faster cast, and make it scale with level of the spell</P> <P>- make all pet buffs cost 1 conc slot, and having them affect all pets in group would be nice</P> <P>- give warlock pets the ability to attack solely at range, rather than melee</P> <P>- remove resist rates from any pet summoning attacks</P></FONT> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Our new heal WILL be usefull. At *** app 1 *** it heals nearly 450 hps. At Adept 3 I am predicting it to heal maybe 800, or even 1000.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our buffs got shot to hell. No denying that, but they're not too amazing now, so I am not very worried about losing our buffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The resist rates are adjusted. You DONT HAVE TO DEBUFF NOXIOUS for your stuff to land and do damage. My spells land on test like they do after I debuff the mob -3k noxious on live. They hit for mid damage on average, with spikes high and low.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our stuns are now only a 2 second timer. That is faster.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pet buffs... Meh.. Fine as is.. even though they take all our concentration... Offensive buff may need a boost.. because it isnt very offensive at the moment.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Warlock pets - The option to attack at range would be a nice one. I think the "Stay" command should work even after you tell the pet to attack. That way you can position your pet where ever you want it to be, and you have more control over what it does.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Uglukson]

<DIV><FONT size=2> <P>That is a massive jump in the amount of healing you are predicting. I would like to believe it but I must admit I'm skeptical. I would have thought 550-600 at best, which is still reasonably poor. 800-1000 is nice.</P> <P>Our noxious debuffs don't just work for us though, did they? My warlock guildmate sure notices when we haven't debuffed noxious as is. Having Noxious debuffs help other classes that use such spells, giving us some sorely needed utility. That is part of my point that I didn't really spell out I guess.</P> <P>Nice change to the stun line, I hadn't seen that. 2 second cast time is short enough to be useful. I do want my Master-level Convulse to actually do something better than App or Adept, though.</P> <P>My point about the buffs comes back to micromanagement. I guess you like that aspect or you don't. Me, not so much. If I have to constantly tweak my concentration buffs, I want it to have a pretty good effect all around (individual and grouped), and right now I'm not seeing it. That goes for our pet and group buffs - if our buffs were so poor to start with, why bother nerfing them?</P> <P>Yeah, I think the warlock pet nuking and not meleeing idea is a winner. It allows us to contribute to fights with AE damage in a meaningful way, but when that pet runs out of power it loses it's DPS, so it's not sustainable in a very long fight, which forces us to go without a pet or resummon and rebuff.</P></FONT></DIV><p>Message Edited by Uglukson on <span class=date_text>08-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:54 AM</span>

[schrammy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Named88 wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our buffs got shot to hell. No denying that, but they're not too amazing now, so I am not very worried about losing our buffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pet buffs... Meh.. Fine as is.. even though they take all our concentration... Offensive buff may need a boost.. because it isnt very offensive at the moment.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Mage equipement is allready too expensive as it is. Thanks to those not so amazing buffs i can go from 120 to 180 INT. I will lose all that int, which means my spells will get resisted way more often then now. (remember its our INT vs their Wis now.)</P> <P>We cant take a hit at this moment. Most decent mobs will kill us in 2 hits tops, mind you this is WITH magi's shielding. Imagine our hit taking abilities without it.<BR></P>

[See]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> schrammy wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> Thanks to those not so amazing buffs i can go from 120 to 180 INT. I will lose all that int, which means my spells will get resisted way more often then now. (remember its our INT vs their Wis now.)</BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ewww.  Sorry <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>I self-buff to 224 INT with 112 WIS</P>

[Nainitsuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Seeko wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> schrammy wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> Thanks to those not so amazing buffs i can go from 120 to 180 INT. I will lose all that int, which means my spells will get resisted way more often then now. (remember its our INT vs their Wis now.)</BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ewww.  Sorry <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>I self-buff to 224 INT with 112 WIS</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>That's all you got?  You might want to upgrade.</P> <P> </P> <P>I self-buff to roughly 275 Int.</P>

[Named]

<DIV>I think your warlock friend will land spells fine without having to debuff the mob nearly 3k noxious. NPC resists don't work like they do in live.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Warlock pet seems to regen mana very fast. He regens very very very fast out of combat, but for long incombat fights, you would probally want to use either the fighter or the rogue pet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for tanking... We're even WORSE now. We lost the parry skill and i'm down to ~30% avoidance and 20-25% mitigation... It sucks.</DIV>

[Nefari]

I was hoping for a direct power xfer spell like  our twitches in EQ1 :/  Heart line is good and all, but in raids a direct power xfer would be very nice....along with health xfer, we'd have a ton of work to do <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Deson]

Ack! Twitch necro! <shudders> Personally I much prefer the hearts to being a twitcher. That was the single most aggravating thing I had in EQ. I'd much rather summon them a stone and let them use it at their leisure than be forced to be nothing more than a battery for someone else.They gave it to the sorc's, it's their hell now. <div></div>

[quamdar]

<div></div><pre><font face="Arial">"Our buffs got shot to hell. No denying that, but they're nottoo amazing now, so I am not very worried about losing our buffs."i think personally that this sucks, we used to be able to buffdisease, poison and magic up by 715 (disease by alot more) now it is588 disease and 470 poison that is a huge nerf there unless they are redoing resists so that they are just a smaller number but give the same benefit which i doubt but would make this sit alot easier with me. we also lost alot of STA and INT and almost 400 HP.our FD was also fixed too. also the fact that a summoned pet that can die to an AE and can be resisted is replacing our best DoT. we also lose the ability to debuff resist by nearly as much and also lose the STR and AGI debuff on death's coil. decreased manafrom our pet taps, they do last 20 instead of 10 seconds but still is alot less mana.now the things that they did give us was a heal at the cost of our own life, in combat rezz(need a component still but no big deal),quite a bit more AE DPS and more DPS in group situations where you can keep up all those small pets and have pet on mob,a nice increase for our lifetap and a nice effect on lich, increase in duration for our root and chance to fear on break, and lower cast time on our stun.</font><font face="Arial">it just seems to me we won't be anywhere near as desirable on raids because we won't do alot of DPS with pets dropping to AE, our severely nerfed group buffs, and decrease in our debuffing abilities. we do seem to be able to do a bit better at crowd controlthan before (if it is one mob other than that we suck). i think if they give us back our group buffs i would be happy cause with thisas it is our utility looks like it will suck totally but would still like to know if the mob gets aggro when running past mobs or if you canuse him to pull like you can right now.</font></pre>

[slyfer]

<P>How does Accursed Cloud work on Test?  It says Heals caster for 577, and inflicts 803 damage on caster.  Not sure what this means?  Looks like you just loose heath with this by the description.</P> <P>Does it still work the same way it did before?  It doesn't say inflicts damage on targert.</P>

[See]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nainitsuj wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>That's all you got?  You might want to upgrade.</BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>I self-buff to roughly 275 Int.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Heh, once I figured out that all over 200 was a waste I started buying STA/AGI gear to up my HP/Avd <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[See]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> slyfer wrote:<BR> <P>How does Accursed Cloud work on Test?  It says Heals caster for 577, and inflicts 803 damage on caster.  Not sure what this means?  Looks like you just loose heath with this by the description.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Typo <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Should read "Heals caster for 577, and inflicts 803 damage on <STRIKE>caster</STRIKE><STRONG> TARGET</STRONG>"</DIV>

[Named]

<DIV>Accursed Cloud is now a point blank AE. It works like a "cloud" around the necromancer. It is also out-of-encounter, so you can ae multiple groups, which is VERY VERY USEFULL.</DIV>

[See]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Named88 wrote:<BR> <DIV> which is VERY VERY USEFULL.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>And can be VERY, VERY DANGEROUS <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Wiseman160]

<DIV>There is one question that concerns me the most:<BR><BR>Did they change the way multiple necromancers work together in a group?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My wife and I both play necromancers and frankly we're not very effective together due to lousy stacking issues.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Has any of thise been resolved?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[See]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wiseman160 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Did they change the way multiple necromancers work together in a group?</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Yes.  You can now both stack the same DoT on the same mob.</DIV>

[Urbanna]

<span><blockquote><hr>Seeko wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Named88 wrote: <div> which is VERY VERY USEFULL.</div> <hr> </blockquote> <div>And can be VERY, VERY DANGEROUS <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><hr></blockquote>Sweet...I love true AEs....will help getting that destroyer of undead title in the graveyard lol</span><div></div>

[Psyrus2]

<P>Don't get me wrong, but I fear this upgrade.  Because they fixed so much at once for us, I fear that people will flock to making Necro's.  I like the fact that there are not too many of us out there.  All and all very exciting though <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[wurtin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Psyrus2 wrote:<BR> <P>Don't get me wrong, but I fear this upgrade.  Because they fixed so much at once for us, I fear that people will flock to making Necro's.  I like the fact that there are not too many of us out there.  All and all very exciting though <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</P> <P><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>There are barely any of us out there on Kithcor.  I just hit 42 last night, and I'm  the 54th necro to hit level 42.  Who knows how many are actually left playing.  Hell, I just started in April.  Several had probalby hit 50 and quit by the time I started.</P> <P> </P> <P>but that can be bad.  With a low population, that means the Sages won't make as many of our rare spells for sale.  They'll choose a more heavily populated class.</P> <P><BR> </P> <p>Message Edited by wurtin on <span class=date_text>08-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:10 AM</span>

[El Chupacabr]

<P>Hmm... running your spells (and assuming they all work correctly) and doing some recast timer finessing I'm seeing a personal (not including the rats damage nor the stench damage nor the pet damage {though their cast and recasts times are included in my math}) DPS of approximately 280 at level 50 against a single target.</P> <P>That is one huge damage increase for us and may very well justify they loss of utility.  I haven't had a chance to do a paper analyzation of a sorcerer so I won't know how powerful this really is until then.  It's a pain to massage those durations into a good damage weave and I could probably streamline a little for a bit more DPS though I think the routine I ran is probably good enough.</P>

[Methesa]

From seeing/testing these changes, I am for the first time - proud to be a Necro. Highlights:I can out nuke a priest.My pet holds aggro. I can sik my ad3 thrall on a mob, and then drop my m1 siphon life a second or two later - and he KEEPS aggro. Lich form has killed me twice, due to my lack of attention span(m1 kills you fast)We are no longer dot-stacking-NecHoes. Hooray for not having to chain cast dots to keep your dps up.... mmm, I feel like a necro.</end rambling>

[KBern]

<DIV>Ignore this...dupe post.:smileymad:</DIV><p>Message Edited by KBern on <span class=date_text>08-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:42 PM</span>

[KBern]

<DIV> <P>How is the pulling agro?</P> <P>I guess I should explain what I mean first.  When I duo with my brothers conjurer, we literally kick tons of tush.  </P> <P>The problem is at times when I pull wiht my pet, the mob beelines right for me.  It never happens to him.</P> <P>It has happened on first contact (ie. pet gets to mob, mob never targets pet but beelines to me.)</P> <P>It has happened when I pull my pet back.  (ie. sick pet, beats on mob, I pull pet back....mob changes implied target to me and beelines for me.)</P> <P>It even happens when I let my pet beat on the mob for a bit, builds up agro then pulls.</P> <P>I would say this is a normal part of pet pulling, but it never happens with my brothers oompaloompa pet.</P> <P>We both have adept 3 lvl 38 tank pets.  I have my words of the wicked at adept 3.</P> <P>I am first curious if other necros face this, and if so, how is this on test at this time?</P></DIV>

[Eirgo]

<P>The only time the mob I am pulling with my pet ever makes a bee line for me is if my pet misses his initial attack and doesnt proc any attacks.  In that case, the pet has gained no aggro and the mob comes after me.</P> <P>Only other time I get aggro is when I am severly outdamaging my RT (usually on purpose against puny solo mobs so my pet doesnt have to eat through his power and make me waste time resummoning/rebuffing every half a dozen fights).</P> <P> </P>

[KBern]

<P>Yeah I understand the agro while fighting, it is the pull agro that has both my brother and I confused.</P> <P>We play in the same room at times and he has watched it happen over my shoulder, and neither of us can figure it out.</P> <P>I may have to have a heart to heart talk with ole Stretch.</P>

[Named]

On test the RT holds agro like a champ. If you send him to attack a group of 4 mobs, all 4 mobs will attack the pet.

[Gargamel]

<P>All is good except for the extreme shortage of concentration (I almost think they are going to add the ability to gain more concentration beyond 5 with how extreeme they are getting with it) -- though it seems their goal is to prevent us from using both defensive and offensive buffs on the pet at once... so they made those use 2.. they just haven't properly realized how that change dominos to our other utility spells.</P> <P>Also disappointing to see our Poison/Disease debuffs basically going away.  From a guaranteed (-550 and -450) to a chance to reduce by 25% when a pet attacks and the debuff is spell is up.</P> <P>I kinda' liked when I would group with some 'goodies' and have them surprised and even say 'thanks' when they realize their poison nukes doing hundreds more dmg suddenly becuase they have an evil necro running with the group.</P> <P>Now there will only be an opportunity to earn a chance to debuff (IF the spell is up)</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Gargamel on <span class=date_text>08-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:03 PM</span>

[wurtin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KBern wrote:<BR> <P>Yeah I understand the agro while fighting, it is the pull agro that has both my brother and I confused.</P> <P>We play in the same room at times and he has watched it happen over my shoulder, and neither of us can figure it out.</P> <P>I may have to have a heart to heart talk with ole Stretch.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What I've noticed with our lower level pets is a taunt (or the appearace of the taunt spell) on the whole group as the pet charges in for the attack.  I noticed this before the last patch which increased his ability to taunt so I'm a little concerned with being able to pull the mob off the pet at all. 

[schrammy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Seeko wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> schrammy wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> Thanks to those not so amazing buffs i can go from 120 to 180 INT. I will lose all that int, which means my spells will get resisted way more often then now. (remember its our INT vs their Wis now.)</BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ewww.  Sorry <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>I self-buff to 224 INT with 112 WIS</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Well, like i said mage equipement is expensive. I always thought i have pretty nice int gear for a necro. What stuff do you have seeko? Could you maybe link your char sheet?<BR></P>

[Named]

<DIV>I can self buff to nearly 340 int if i throw my int gear on.</DIV>

[Amaterasu]

After seeing a thread asking about relative tanking ability of necro pets vs conjuror pets I started comparing the defensive and offensive stance spells. It seems that  their defensive buff has a ward while ours has a lifetap damage shield. Does the extra damage done make up for the significantly lower healing? Also, they got a new defensive stance at 20 but I don't see one for necros. Could it have been overlooked in the original post or did we not get one at all? If not could the people on test feedback that? It doesn't matter to me but it would be nice for upcoming necros. <div></div>

[Allowen]

<DIV>I would like to know if on the test the pets are  doing nice dps and agro well but for HOW LONG?</DIV> <DIV>Atm a RT pet would go oopower in no time, when soloing/raids I keep recasting pet to get it to full power pet and we know, </DIV> <DIV>an oop RT = loses agro in a sec to other melee dps on mob.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also is grim pet doing more dps now just cause his nuke/dots do more damage or he can castthe spells  FAST ?</DIV> <DIV>Cause on live server seems that he takes forever to cast and his best nuke (ad3 does around 300- 500) he uses normaly once per fight only. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Allowen</DIV> <DIV>lv50 necro</DIV> <DIV>YUH guild</DIV> <DIV>MIstmoore </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Named]

<DIV>We got a new spell the other day which is a low level defensive buff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Allowen - Currently the grim pet seems to cast spells pretty fast. He runs out of mana quickly also, but I think that is just because he has a tiny mana pool. He regens it fairly fast too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would guess that the Scout pet will be the most dps in a long term fight. He does majority of his damage through regular attacks ( pierce or slash ) and while a significant amount comes from specials, he will be impressive dps even after he runs out of power.</DIV>

[Deson]

Any word on what grim presence does now? <div></div>

[Named]

<DIV>There is no buff from the caster pet.</DIV>

[Deson]

Bah! <div></div>

[El Chupacabr]

The conji's are saying they can't stack aqueous hunters and roaring flames (I assume this will be true with phlogiston as well since it's roaring flames upgrade), which should be the plague of rats and stench of the graves equivelents.  Are you seeing these same problems or can we stack both the rats and the limited zombie on the same mob?

[Handleba]

The rats and the zombie do stack perfectly. <div></div>

[quamdar]

is the AE that the ghastly stench uses in encounter or out of encounter? <div></div>

[Eirgo]

Ghastly stench/stench of the grave summon a zombie pet for 30secs.  The breath of the unearthed/accursed cloud spell line has the out of encounter AE lifetap.

[wurtin]

Does the new stench work just like the rats in that once the target you summoned them for dies, they poof?  If so, this means we have to pick and choose when to use rats and stench on multi mob encounters.  For example, if we use them both on mob 1 of a 3 mob encounter, neither may be available for mobs 2 and 3.  I guess its more sustained vs burst dps.  we can spread them out so we have one up ad running at all times or throw them both at once  out to blow things up quick knowing if it doesn't die before they both poof, we will have a significant drop in DPS.

[El Chupacabr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eirgorn wrote:<BR>Ghastly stench/stench of the grave summon a zombie pet for 30secs.  The breath of the unearthed/accursed cloud spell line has the out of encounter AE lifetap. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Stench's zombie also adds "Any nearby enemies will suffer disease damage over time until the ghasly zombie is slain." :smileywink:.</P> <P>Edit:  Thanks HB for the update.</P><p>Message Edited by El Chupacabras on <span class=date_text>08-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:20 PM</span>

[Named]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> quamdar wrote:<BR>is the AE that the ghastly stench uses in encounter or out of encounter?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>It is in encounter as far as I can tell. Seems to do about 150 damage and goes off a decent ammount.

[Eirgo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> El Chupacabras wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eirgorn wrote:<BR>Ghastly stench/stench of the grave summon a zombie pet for 30secs.  The breath of the unearthed/accursed cloud spell line has the out of encounter AE lifetap. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Stench's zombie also adds "Any nearby enemies will suffer disease damage over time until the ghasly zombie is slain." :smileywink:.</P> <P>Edit:  Thanks HB for the update.</P> <P>Message Edited by El Chupacabras on <SPAN class=date_text>08-18-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:20 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Ahh thanks for pointing that out Elewood, I didnt notice that earlier:smileyhappy:

[Owlbe]

<P>I was very interested in the new life transfer spells.  Very nice necro's, gratz.</P> <P> </P> <P>Looking through the spells it appears that you get one at lvl 33.6 and 47.6?  Does this sound correct or is their one earlier than that?</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Handleba]

<div></div>Take a look at the website in my sig, it has the new spells on there so you can see exactly where you get it from.  I just went there also, and it is at 33.6 and 47.6, so you're correct. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Handlebars on <span class=date_text>08-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:52 AM</span>

[Deson]

<div></div>These hit test yet? http://www.eq2labs.com/article/new-spells.php just looked at the conj boards, seems the NDA has been lifted. Screenshots people! <div></div><p>Message Edited by Deson on <span class=date_text>08-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:11 PM</span>

[quamdar]

those are pretty cool, wish the charm pet lasted a bit longer but still really nice.  also the cost to damage/heal on the new dot seems kind of out of line to the rest of our attacks in DPP but hopefully that will be changed a bit.  wonder what toggleable means though?  not really sure on that. <div></div>

[El Chupacabr]

<span><blockquote><hr>Deson wrote:<div></div>These hit test yet? http://www.eq2labs.com/article/new-spells.php just looked at the conj boards, seems the NDA has been lifted. Screenshots people! <div></div><p>Message Edited by Deson on <span class="date_text">08-20-2005</span> <span class="time_text">02:11 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Bleah.  Crap and crap. Two spells that do around 1k damage each every minute.  True, these are app1's but compare those to all the other mage 50's at app1 and they are quite cheesy.  Seems the other mages are getting limited pets (it seems everyone now gets limited pets, even guardians), call of the hero (though I think the conji 50 spells are cheesy too) is back and sorcerers are getting more utility spells. Guess it depends on how high a mob that charm can take... considering that lovely six second cast time and the fact it's nothing more than an undead master strike, I'm really not impressed.  Getting these rare situation type spells just really grinds my gears... every other 50 can be used any time and some of them are <i>very</i> powerful, when am I gonna use this?  In Harclave? It seems every spell designed for us is the same old thing.  "What can we give the necro's that'll be really cool and make them stand out?  How about another lifetap!".  I guess an undead charm is kinda cool in theory but it is so situational and with such a high power cost and cast time I just can't see a time to use it.  If it's anything like the enchanter charms, and it looks like it is since it has that "if Normal creature or weaker", we will never ever use it since it'll work only work on "solo" mobs. Sure, our single target damage will still be great and we've got that heal and rez but where's the flavor?  All the swarm pets used to make us kinda special, now everyone has them.    Why the heck does consumption have a persistant power cost?  Because other classes new level 50 spells do? </span><div></div>

[prince_sd]

<DIV>Exactly my thoughts, El Chupacabras</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The damage spell is so so weak. Look at its power cost compared to death's coil (3.5 times). Tell me why would i ever use that spell compared to death's coil.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And charm an undead in Maj'dul. Have these guys gone crazy. I'll probably use that like once or twice ever. And every class gets spells they can use in raids or pvp action and we can't. :smileymad: </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And the worst is every class, even a guardian gets a limited pet. I thought from their stench of the grave change they wanted summoners to be like pet masters who summon a number of petsto aid them. Hah, good luck, everyone does it now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Necros get such a raw deal that I plainly refused to believe it. I thought someone was doing some joke spells. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And why the hell do we have so many new spells at level 50 anyway ? Are we not getting them every level now ?</DIV>

[Deson]

I'm waiting on the full list but yeah, you two pretty much summed up exactly how I feel. Hands down we have the best look and style in the game and lifetaps are nice but our group effect and our so called utility are incredibly situational and lacking. <div></div>

[El Chupacabr]

<span><blockquote><hr>Deson wrote:I'm waiting on the full list but yeah, you two pretty much summed up exactly how I feel. Hands down we have the best look and style in the game and lifetaps are nice but our group effect and our so called utility are incredibly situational and lacking. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Ya know, it's not even that I minded being somewhat situational in my utility... it's when I compare things like spellshield, all those non-training snare spells and netherous grasp to that charm undead spell that I get wound up. We used to be the masters of noxious debuffing, now the "lowest utility mage" can debuff noxious for more <i>and</i> debuff all physical resists and we got a high power cost low  return lifetap. I'm generally not this negative but geez, someone on the team has got to start playing a necro.  If little old player me can see the problems with all these spell lines in comparison to the other mages, surely someone in development can see them too.</span><div></div>

[prince_sd]

<P>I have posted our concerns in the spells/ abilities sections since I doubt it will even catch the eye of any developer here. </P> <P>Unfortunately, i do expect to get 1 starred because non-necros will say "dude you got leet charm and you are whining blah blah blah.." so i will ask fellow necros to help me out there and try to explain it a bit if i am unable to do a good job of it.</P>

[Deson]

I'm personally just thinking of my EQ1 necro and what I used to have to deal with in groups- "You can mez right?" "No, that capped a long time ago" " Pet offtank?" " PrePoP sure!" " Before or after you slow?" " Umm..I only slow undead" " What about a charm pet?" "You mean suicide mezz?" " Well, at least you can mana tap for the group" " Err.. umm...sure, if it ever lands" "Well, at least things will die quicker with you iand the wizard in the group" " Yeah I suppose. My dots take a bit to cast and ramp up though. And these are (pick your resist) immune" "Well, at least we are wipe proof. Your FD and rez is good insurance" " Costs just as much as RL insurance too. 200plat a rez. On a good day" " Well, you can always twitch. Just keep the cleric full" " You know what, I'm think I'm going to just kite til the raid. Later"  I never want to be that situational again. Especially when the other classses don't worry about it and offer more wow factor than I do. <div></div>

[quamdar]

<div></div><div></div><p>even though in their current form the new spells are kind of bad i think they could really be improved to be pretty nice like alot of spells other classes got.  i do like the charm undead but there aren't nearly enough undead in high end experience spots to make it really worth while and the recurring power cost seems very excessive.  i think if they reduced power costs a bit or just plain got rid of recurring costs then these would be pretty nice especially with the 1 second cast on consumption.  also with a bit more undead mobs in high end zones (don't really know of many solo undead mobs in perma, sol eye, or CT) it would be a bit more useful in groups.  also would be nice to see the secondary effect changed a bit to some kind of a mezz instead of a dot especially at that high power cost(so it would be a charm on solo and a mezz for heroics <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ).   the huge power cost on it also make me kind of  think that in most cases it will probably not be used without some other types of mana regen(bard/chanter) since it is like 700 power a minute as opposed to our non mana using regular pets.  even though we probably are the best class for power regen proably with our pet taps, lich, and newly revamped DPP(12.3 now as opposed to 3.4 before according to el chup's post, all i can say is wow more damage while using less power on most spells) that cost seems excessive.  i would really like to see this charm udead become useful i think it would be fun to be able to have a charmed pet when grinding would make things alot more interesting having to keep an eye on your pet and make sure he stays charmed and if he resists back him away from group, root, and retry.</p><p>i would like to see these spells changed because as is they are pretty useless though it will get better with upgrades to the spells but look at other classes app 1 spells and it seems we kinda got screwed unless these are changed for the better.</p><p>also i have some questions about charm, can you zone with charmed pet  like you can regular pet(doubt it but would be nice since most high end zones lack undead mobs the only ones i know of off top of my head are the skellies in EF near MM)?  can you charm a single non up mob that is part of a bigger group or will he get hit by encounter AEs after he is charmed if this is even possible?  can you have charmed pet and regular pet up at same time(don't see anything in description that says summoned minions are banished like with FD though i doubt it)?</p><div></div><p>Message Edited by quamdar on <span class=date_text>08-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:37 PM</span>

[Eirgo]

<DIV>Hmmm </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>new charm spell + spectres in expansion = /grin</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>wonder if any of them will be solo mobs that we could charm</DIV>

[El Chupacabr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eirgorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hmmm </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>new charm spell + spectres in expansion = /grin</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>wonder if any of them will be solo mobs that we could charm</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Now, if we could charm them and power tap them to death, that would be kinda fun <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.

[Eirgo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> El Chupacabras wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eirgorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hmmm </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>new charm spell + spectres in expansion = /grin</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>wonder if any of them will be solo mobs that we could charm</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Now, if we could charm them and power tap them to death, that would be kinda fun <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Lol, I still get a kick outta summoning my Zygomid (sp? - whatever) and killing him with a couple taps.</P> <P>Wonder how easily this spell will be resisted, and if it would be feasible to keep a pet perma-charmed, at least out of combat by recasting before it breaks.</P> <P>Out of combat regen should keep up with the maintained costs easily enough, and as long as solo fights dont take more than a minute or so it may be possible to have a wraith pet hehe. </P>

[Dastion]

<DIV>It would be nice if since they gave some other classes old school spells (Call of The Hero), if they gave us Screaming Terror from EQ1 (A mez).  A body summon spell would be nice too...which reminds me...it says it summons the corpse to us, so just what kind of range are we talking about? Because it can be interpreted different ways.  Does this spell make us corpse recovery masters by being able to summon a dead ally across the dungeon or is it just allow us to better position where we want their bodies to end up if they die in the middle of monsters?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But here is my major gripe about all of these changes...we STILL don't have a reason to use our Essence of Anguishes until level 48.  Unless I'm just missing it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the person who didn't understand what "Toggleable" meant for the new 50 Conversion.  It works similar to our lich spell. Where, as long as you have it on, you lose life and gain power.   Well, you target the mob, cast it..then for as long as you keep the effect running it will continue to take damage, give you life, and drain some power.  The changes they have made seem to be putting necros back into the role of juggling health/power.  Which is fine, because it fits the theme, atleast we're not twitch bots.  With these changes we have a lot more control over transfering health and power to do dmg, keep our power up, and help allies.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One thing I dont' understand is EC's complaint that they are "just giving us more LT's"  look at what we have now.  Necros "lifetaps" are a pitiful excuse.  The first "life tap over time" we recieve gives about 8% of your health back to you over a duration.   The Teachings of the Dead proc doesn't work well...Siphon life is currently the only lifetap we recieve towards the end of our career.  What they've done is spread it out and make the role of necro more constant across the span, so that you feel like a necromancer in your 20s...I don't know about you, but I didn't feel much like a necromancer till I got into my 30s.  Hell, I still use Seism.  I wish that horrific mark had kept it's power drain component, but oh well...these changes are long awaited and I can't wait to feel like a real necro rather than just a death theme'd DoT'er.</DIV>

[El Chupacabr]

Any change to our roots after the recent adjustments? <div></div>

[Xalmat]

See for yourself:<img src=http://www.mattcrews.com/images/eq2/beta-necromancer-roots.png>

[El Chupacabr]

Whelp, nerfed that advantage we had.  Thanks for putting it up Xalmat. <div></div>

[Xalmat]

Interesting enough, Conjuror Roots are the exact same as Necro Roots now, except Necros have a Fear at the end, while Conjurors have a 35% Snare at the end.

[gr8scott]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xalmat wrote:<BR>Interesting enough, Conjuror Roots are the exact same as Necro Roots now, except Necros have a Fear at the end, while Conjurors have a 35% Snare at the end.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>Did the necro roots change relative to their descriptions posted in your message?  It looks like the necro roots still have their 35% snare???</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Greatscott </DIV>

[Xalmat]

Probably because I overlooked the snare portion of the fear. Either way, Necros get a Fear that happens to have a snare with it, Conjurors get just a Snare <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Dayi]

that last root last for over 50 seconds at appr1 any idea if the dur last longer with higher lvl like adp3? also shouldnt the snare and fear last longer with an upgrade also? hoping so