Necromancer Combat revamp - Good, Bad and the Ugly with Screenshots

[prince_sd]

<DIV>I am going to try and compile necromancer spell screenshots from combat revamp on test now. I don't have a very high level one so if any high level necro on test can post them they will give better info</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some notes first</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=2> <LI><FONT color=#ffffff size=2><STRONG><U>Summoned pets cast their spells and arts at the same quality level as the spell that summoned them. For example, and Adept I version of a pet will cast its spells at Adept I quality.</U></STRONG></FONT></LI> <LI><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>There is now a spell damage bonus based on the difference between the caster's intelligence and the target's wisdom.</FONT></LI> <LI><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Necromancer: Transfer Life heals at the cost of the Necromancer's health.</FONT></LI> <LI><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Necromancer: Lifetap, which drains health from the target to the Necromancer, is now obtained at level 20.</FONT></LI> <LI><FONT size=2>Debuffs and damage-over-time spells cast by two members of the same class can both stack on the same target</FONT></LI> <LI><FONT size=2>The Spell Avoidance skill is no longer used and has been removed. Items with a Spell Avoidance buff will be modified</FONT></LI> <LI><FONT size=2>Root, stun, stifle, fear, and mez spells are now either resisted or not based on the target's resistance to the damage type of that spell. Duration is no longer mitigated, so if the spell successfully lands, it sticks for the full duration.</FONT></LI> <UL></UL></FONT></DIV> <P> </P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>The Good</FONT></P> <UL> <LI> <DIV><STRONG><U>Combat rez</U></STRONG></DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV>Pets pull aggro now. Pets get a defensive stance that generates hate towards them</DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV>Necromancers can heal others now</DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV>Plague of rats on shorter recast</DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV>Wiz pets stay back and dish good damage</DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV>The offensive stance has haste and lifetap proc</DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV>Lich upgraded to include a slow lifetap</DIV></LI></UL> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>The Bad</FONT></P> <UL> <LI>Buffs slightly downgraded. HP buffs removed</LI> <LI>No more Self-ward ?? (I couldnt find a replacement to grisly stele atleast)</LI> <LI>Death's coil series nerfed in debuff but upped in damage. No more STR and AGI debuff</LI></UL> <P> <FONT color=#ff0000>The UGLY</FONT></P> <UL> <LI>Self and Pet Buffs both take concentrations now</LI> <LI>Stench of the grave - converted into another plague of rats style dot.  It has a longer recast timer now like plague of rats and the zombie will get destroyed as soon as aoe hits it.</LI></UL> <P>What do you guys think about the stench of grave change ? It does aoe damage now but i dont think its damage would compare with the tons of single target damage earlier. I have a bad feeling it will get killed fast by an aoe and we will be left with atleast 20% less overall damage.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text><FONT color=#0000cc>Edit: </FONT>Found stench of grave replacement. Death's coil is kind of replacement for stench of grave now with lower cast time and more damage.</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by prince_sd on <span class=date_text>08-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:03 AM</span>

[prince_sd]

<DIV><IMG src="http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/1771/eq20000021qi.jpg"></DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/9007/eq20000045mc.jpg"><IMG src="http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/6435/eq20000068qm.jpg"></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text><IMG src="http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/2014/eq20000082py.jpg"></SPAN></DIV><p>Message Edited by prince_sd on <span class=date_text>08-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:27 AM</span>

[Romka]

Sphon Life is now lvl 50 spell???

[prince_sd]

<P>Yes the lifetap series that starts at 20.</P> <P>20+14.6+14.6 ~ 50 is siphon life</P>

[Romka]

Any word about out pet power taps (transfer pet's hp into our power)? How was it changed?

[ChrisRay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Romka wrote:<BR>Any word about out pet power taps (transfer pet's hp into our power)? How was it changed? <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>They are all on the same timer and less effective. </P> <P>However. Rats IMO is more effective now. Plus its recast time has been shortened to less than half of what it was.</P> <p>Message Edited by ChrisRay on <span class=date_text>08-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:56 AM</span>

[schrammy]

<P>Siphon life (lvl50) appII</P> <P> </P> <P>dmgs target fo 7-9</P> <P>heals caster for 5</P> <P> </P> <P>Why am i extremely worried about this????</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[soulrais]

<P>look at the above pics closely  most are app2, few adept 1 </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>so more then likely person who posted pic is not a necro and cant use the spells thus not showing there tru effects </P>

[Eirgo]

<P>Does anyone know how they are handling previously upgraded spells?  IE, I currently have siphon life at ad3, when the revamp hits will I have the new siphon life at ad3?  Or if for some reason I am not at lvl 50 by then, will I have a siphon life ad3 spell in my inventory to scribe when I hit 50?</P> <P>Just curious,</P> <P> </P>

[schrammy]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> soulraiser wrote:<BR> <P>look at the above pics closely  most are app2, few adept 1 </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>so more then likely person who posted pic is not a necro and cant use the spells thus not showing there tru effects </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Thanks Soul, i didn't notice that yet <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[wurtin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ChrisRay wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>However. Rats IMO is more effective now. Plus its recast time has been shortened to less than half of what it was.</P> <P>Message Edited by ChrisRay on <SPAN class=date_text>08-05-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:56 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>To me, it looks like they want us to do our damage be summoning undead creatures to aid us instead of Dot Damage.  Is the recast timer from Rats and Stench separate and both 45 seconds?</P> <P>What about our DD lines?  Do we have upgrades there that could help compensate for the single target dot loss?</P> <P>Also, Rotting thrall?  Is he still our highest tank pet?  Does he level all the way up to 50 like he did before?  </P> <P>I'm concerned with us losing parry and then with concentration slot change we'll be way down on mitigation.  Being 41, I run with 3 buffs on my pet right now.  If all buffs cost 1 conentration, that would be 4 concentration just for my pet :</P> <P> </P> <P>One thing I do like is the offensive vs defensive stance buffs on the pet.  I.E, I take on 3 Constructs of Thule.  Start the pet in defensive stance and get aggro for all 3 mobs on the pet.  Peel off one of the constructs and kill it.  Once dead, change pet to offensive stance and assist pet to kill the last 2 constructs.  Or a variation on that theme.</P> <P>We shall see though.<BR> </P> <p>Message Edited by wurtin on <span class=date_text>08-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:42 AM</span>

[schrammy]

<DIV>Lol, i have 5 buffs on my pet. I'd need 6 slots just to have my pet and buffs out. I hope that they drop that idea since its really bad</DIV>

[wurtin]

<DIV>I'm wondering though if we are down to 2 pet buffs we can have on at a time though.  The defensve buff looks like that's the only one he can have on him since all of the pet buffs we have now would be classified as offensive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Or are these buffs going to be more group vs solo buffs where the solo buffs will be the defensive stance and the offensive will be group based.  /shrug</DIV>

[soulrais]

<P>some concerns i see from above posts</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>*** looks like they made every class have spells or abilitys that use alot of concentration slots -- think this was to make ppl think more and make spell more situation as it was could keep all buffs up on me and pet before </P> <P> </P> <P>*** pets look like got overhalled -- but did they give us new pets or how do the lvl 38 tank pet still scale and be useful at 50.. heard his dmg was reduced greatly while caster pet was majorly upgrade -- this is good in my eyes</P> <P>***pet BUFFs looks like those of us who use to cast 3 4 or 5 buffs now they reduced the number of buffs on pet u can cast and made the ones u do cast ALOT better -- did the change our special ablity buff options as well ?? </P> <P> </P> <P>***looks like they changed our dots to be more of a summon undead minons play style, sounds like dps is similar just sucks cause aoe will kill off the mini pets </P> <P> </P> <P>*** very curious how they change to siphon life will effect ppl both ppl 50 and less atm   if u have the siphon life adept 3 atm will u still have it with the lvl 50 version or get a spell put into your inventory if your not 50 yet ??????? </P> <P> </P> <P>***Realy like to know more on the heal others what lvl it is cost and how effective it is---- sounds like i will need to invest more in some sta gear</P> <P> </P> <P>*** like the upgrade on lich and fact spells should now scale based on app1 - master 1 </P> <P> </P> <P>*** sucks they reduced some of or buffs but i think in the hole picture over all we got a BIG improvement for necro class </P> <P> </P>

[ChrisRay]

<FONT color=#6633cc></FONT><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> wurtin wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ChrisRay wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>However. Rats IMO is more effective now. Plus its recast time has been shortened to less than half of what it was.</P> <P>Message Edited by ChrisRay on <SPAN class=date_text>08-05-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:56 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>To me, it looks like they want us to do our damage be summoning undead creatures to aid us instead of Dot Damage.  Is the recast timer from Rats and Stench separate and both 45 seconds?</P> <P><FONT color=#6633cc>As far as I know yes. Rats make up a substancial portion of my DPS. I am level 32 though.  (almost 4x as powerful for me now)</FONT></P> <P>What about our DD lines?  Do we have upgrades there that could help compensate for the single target dot loss?</P> <P><FONT color=#6633cc>Most of our single target DD lines have turned into fast dots. (IE 5 second dots, 1 tick every second) There isnt gonna be anymore of that ridiculous dot stacking</FONT></P> <P>Also, Rotting thrall?  Is he still our highest tank pet?  Does he level all the way up to 50 like he did before?  </P> <P><FONT color=#6633cc>Yes, Actually as far as I know. All pets scale to the level of your next pet type. ((For instance Tellurian Recruit goes to 23 now regardless of spell level)</FONT></P> <P>I'm concerned with us losing parry and then with concentration slot change we'll be way down on mitigation.  Being 41, I run with 3 buffs on my pet right now.  If all buffs cost 1 conentration, that would be 4 concentration just for my pet :</P> <P><FONT color=#6633cc>With the new defensive buffs ((They are pretty good)) you shouldnt take that many hits soloing. Unless you're poor.</FONT></P> <P>One thing I do like is the offensive vs defensive stance buffs on the pet.  I.E, I take on 3 Constructs of Thule.  Start the pet in defensive stance and get aggro for all 3 mobs on the pet.  Peel off one of the constructs and kill it.  Once dead, change pet to offensive stance and assist pet to kill the last 2 constructs.  Or a variation on that theme.</P> <P><FONT color=#6633cc>This is exactly how it works. If you're smart. A pet can tank multiples much better than they do on live. The damage shield helps the pet maintain extra aggro + the extra aggro percentage.</FONT></P> <P>We shall see though.<BR> </P> <P>Message Edited by wurtin on <SPAN class=date_text>08-05-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:42 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Fortunately I moorgard is now allowing us to discuss the combat changes since they are on test now. I have had a little experience with them. There are alot of changes but I feel the class at my level (32) is much more enjoyable than before.</DIV>

[schrammy]

<P>Well every training option we had, I went with the petbuffs, if they render those useless (only2 at a time) </P> <P>I want a respec</P>

[ChrisRay]

<DIV>The training options. Obviously arent complete yet.</DIV>

[Urbanna]

<span><blockquote><hr>ChrisRay wrote:<font color="#6633cc"></font> <blockquote> <hr> wurtin wrote: <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> ChrisRay wrote: <div></div> <p>However. Rats IMO is more effective now. Plus its recast time has been shortened to less than half of what it was.</p> <div></div> <p>Message Edited by ChrisRay on <span class="date_text">08-05-2005</span> <span class="time_text">12:56 AM</span> </p><hr> </blockquote> <p>To me, it looks like they want us to do our damage be summoning undead creatures to aid us instead of Dot Damage.  Is the recast timer from Rats and Stench separate and both 45 seconds?</p> <p><font color="#6633cc">As far as I know yes. Rats make up a substancial portion of my DPS. I am level 32 though.  (almost 4x as powerful for me now)</font></p> <p>What about our DD lines?  Do we have upgrades there that could help compensate for the single target dot loss?</p> <p><font color="#6633cc">Most of our single target DD lines have turned into fast dots. (IE 5 second dots, 1 tick every second) There isnt gonna be anymore of that ridiculous dot stacking</font></p> <p>Also, Rotting thrall?  Is he still our highest tank pet?  Does he level all the way up to 50 like he did before?  </p> <p><font color="#6633cc">Yes, Actually as far as I know. All pets scale to the level of your next pet type. ((For instance Tellurian Recruit goes to 23 now regardless of spell level)</font></p> <p>I'm concerned with us losing parry and then with concentration slot change we'll be way down on mitigation.  Being 41, I run with 3 buffs on my pet right now.  If all buffs cost 1 conentration, that would be 4 concentration just for my pet :</p> <p><font color="#6633cc">With the new defensive buffs ((They are pretty good)) you shouldnt take that many hits soloing. Unless you're poor.</font></p> <p>One thing I do like is the offensive vs defensive stance buffs on the pet.  I.E, I take on 3 Constructs of Thule.  Start the pet in defensive stance and get aggro for all 3 mobs on the pet.  Peel off one of the constructs and kill it.  Once dead, change pet to offensive stance and assist pet to kill the last 2 constructs.  Or a variation on that theme.</p> <p><font color="#6633cc">This is exactly how it works. If you're smart. A pet can tank multiples much better than they do on live. The damage shield helps the pet maintain extra aggro + the extra aggro percentage.</font></p> <p>We shall see though. </p> <div></div> <p>Message Edited by wurtin on <span class="date_text">08-05-2005</span> <span class="time_text">06:42 AM</span> </p><hr> </blockquote> <div>Fortunately I moorgard is now allowing us to discuss the combat changes since they are on test now. I have had a little experience with them. There are alot of changes but I feel the class at my level (32) is much more enjoyable than before.</div><hr></blockquote>Thanks for the updates! What about pet animations? How's your shadowy stalker?</span><div></div>

[schrammy]

<DIV>will we get a respec then?</DIV><p>Message Edited by schrammy on <span class=date_text>08-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:08 PM</span>

[Urbanna]

Yes...devs already stated that we will once the combat revamp goes live<span><blockquote><hr>schrammy wrote:<div></div> <div>will we get a respec then?</div><p>Message Edited by schrammy on <span class="date_text">08-05-2005</span> <span class="time_text">04:08 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[Eirgo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> schrammy wrote:<BR> <P>Well every training option we had, I went with the petbuffs, if they render those useless (only2 at a time)</P> <P>I want a respec</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Moorgard has promised everyone a /respec when the combat changes hit live, it will just be up to a few brave souls to pick first and post screens of all the options (if they arent easily viewed at time of selection) so that everyone else can make an informed decision......any volunteers?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[schrammy]

<P>Sorry i wasnt aware that he <U>promised</U>   a respec.</P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eirgorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>Moorgard has promised everyone a /respec when the combat changes hit live, it will just be up to a few brave souls to pick first and post screens of all the options (if they arent easily viewed at time of selection) so that everyone else can make an informed decision......any volunteers?</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Hehe no matter what i choose, it will be wrong at first try anyway <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</P> <P>So i'll post screens when i get the choices <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  </P> <P> </P> <P>(moorgard should give us 2 respecs then <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And yes i am aware of the fact that we as community ask for an arm whenevr we get a hand <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />))) <BR></P>

[Naughtesn]

/<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eirgorn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> schrammy wrote:<BR> <P>Well every training option we had, I went with the petbuffs, if they render those useless (only2 at a time)</P> <P>I want a respec</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Moorgard has promised everyone a /respec when the combat changes hit live, it will just be up to a few brave souls to pick first and post screens of all the options (if they arent easily viewed at time of selection) so that everyone else can make an informed decision......any volunteers?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>/shrug perhaps i will

[Eirgo]

<P>Heh ok I was wrong, it was Smedley that said we would get a /respec in his producers letter here:</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=pround&message.id=2828&query.id=0#M2828" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=pround&message.id=2828&query.id=0#M2828</A></P> <DIV>This is what he said about the combat revamp:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#ffff00>Combat and Items: Diversity, Challenge, and Rewards</FONT> </EM></STRONG> <P align=justify>Class diversity, class roles, and the challenge that the world presents have been major topics that we come back to a lot when talking with people about their experiences in EverQuest II. As many of you know, we're nearly in testing with some pretty large combat and abilities improvements aimed at addressing many of common concerns about what people experience in the game:</P> <DIV align=justify> <UL> <LI>In some cases, classes aren't diverse enough. People get pigeonholed into one of four core roles with not enough useful flavor between the subclasses.<BR> <LI>In other cases, a profession's secondary contribution is better than another profession's primary contribution.<BR> <LI>In other cases yet, even inside of an archetype, there are distinct differences between people's ability to contribute at the level they're supposed to.<BR> <LI>Some combinations of abilities are a bit too effective, causing some of the end-game to get into the realm of trivial and, therefore, boring. This is one of the most frequent causes of burnout at the high end of EQ2. People figure out "the trick" and there just "isn't any challenge left." While issues like this won't impact the majority of people, it should come as a relief to those on the high end.</LI></UL></DIV> <P align=justify>An update on our progress will be showing up on Test Server for public evaluation some time in the next couple weeks, and we'll be paying very close attention to the feedback of those who've played with it.</P> <P align=justify>One thing that everyone should be aware of: In our discussions with people on this topic, we're definitely aware that there has been a certain amount of apprehension to what we've been doing. Anything that's an unknown that touches a topic like "combat" or "spells" gets people nervous. While there will definitely be some changes, please be assured that we're not looking to drastically alter the fundamentals that make EQ2 fun.</P> <P align=justify>We want to make it very clear that we're paying attention to people's concerns. In everything that we're doing with this revamp, we are proceeding <B><I>very </I></B>cautiously, which is why you haven't seen anything rushed out to the live servers, or even rushed out to public test, for that matter.</P> <P align=justify>All of our work in this area can be turned on and off with a switch, as we've been doing on Test Server over the few past updates. When we're in the middle of working on areas that really need to be finished all at once before a part if it makes sense, we just turn it off.</P> <P align=justify><STRONG>In addition, everyone will be getting the ability to respec all of their traits, traditions, and the like once this update does go live.</STRONG></P></DIV>

[xAlar]

<p>Message Edited by xAlaric on <span class=date_text>09-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:29 PM</span>

[Eirgo]

Im pretty sure Handlebars has a 50 necro on test, the only one I know of.   Maybe he will have some good info for us later.

[wurtin]

<DIV>Do our Snares still stack?  It seems that it will become even more critical not to get hit and I'm curious if the snares + the hex doll still are stacking.</DIV>

[prince_sd]

<DIV>I am a happy necro now. </DIV> <DIV>Found replacements for Stench of grave dps. Skinrot is a dot now and Death's coil has low casting time and high damage.</DIV> <DIV>This combined with lower recast on rats and a new zombie is awesome.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Added screenshots for them too in my original post.</DIV> <DIV>Rizaz said he would post screenshots of actual spell damage soon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also,  exchange life is our new heal others spell at the cost of our hp.</DIV> <DIV>siphon life does 1k damage and heals us for 400 :smileyhappy:</DIV>

[schrammy]

<P>That sounds GREAT. could you tell us what lvl that spell is? Master1??</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[ChrisRay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Urbannaja wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Thanks for the updates! What about pet animations? How's your shadowy stalker?<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#ff0099>Right now it seems to be the best longterm duration DPS pet. While the caster pet is best for short burst DPS. Keep in mind all pets have been adjusted and the fighter type does not put out as much DPS. The scout pet tends to do better damage but doesnt tank as well either. A fair trade off in my opinion right now.</FONT><BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0099></FONT></DIV>

[See]

<P>Latest Test Updates:</P> <P> </P> <P><STRONG>Necromancer changes:<BR></STRONG>- Stench of the Grave now causes the pet to ally with the caster instead of the target.<BR>- Breath of the Unearthed and Accursed Cloud should correctly function as a point-blank area of effect lifetaps.<BR>- Rat Infestation now summons rats of the appropriate level.</P>

[Leawyn]

<P>Lich Change is awesome, if I am reading it correctly. I guess I need to wait for it to hit live to see if it works like it says. Oh yeah, and did they fix the "shapechange" in this? I really hate being changed into a guy. (With a beard that doesn't "fit" to boot!)</P> <P>I'm kind of excited about being able to summon a bunch of undead minions to dps for me. I've always played Necro's for the fun spells we get. Puppies, rats, bats, so much fun! Just gotta learn to get behind the mob!</P> <P>Do the pets in defensive hold agro? I heard some concerns on the Combat Changes forum that the pets in defensive do not hold agro well at all. Since I would only use defensive in solo situations, that is important! Would love to see some dps parses on offensive rotting thrall vs warlock pet, see if that warlock is doing its job now. But I can wait too.</P> <P>Overall, it looks better than what I've heard up until now. I'm not quite so worried.</P> <P>Oh yeah, one more thing, anyone seen anything about our invis? I know that people keep talking about how invis was nerfed, can we get some screens on the new invis spell too?</P> <P> </P> <P>*edited to add* oh yeah, and no one answered if rats and zombie are on different timers! :smileyvery-happy:</P><p>Message Edited by Leawyn on <span class=date_text>08-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:27 PM</span>

[Kalsy]

<P>After looking at the new spells I am both excited and concerned about necros.  I think we will get a nice DPS upgrade, and I love the flavor or the lifetaps, dots, and mini pets that will give the necro character.  My concern is that even with our highest DPS pet, we will always be a Tier 2 DPS class (as posted by Sony).  On raids I am worried that pets will be ineffective since so many epic mobs have some sort of AE attack.  Pets will also always be lower level than the necro, so on the really really tough raid mobs, pets will really struggle to do damage.  If pets are not effective on raids, we will loose a majority of our dps.</P> <P>My other concern is our lack of debuffs.  Brigands are also a Tier 2 DPS class.  So while they do similar damage, they get some of the best debuffs in game, they wear medium armor, they have very high avoidance, more HPs than a necro, and some of the best utility abilities in game (path finding, invis, evac, track, disarm).  My concern is how will a necro contribute on a raid?  I think we will be viable in xp groups.  But on raids, we may have our DPS severely limited by the innability to keep pets alive.  And we dont have any decent buffs or debuffs to contribute.  Will we end up being nothing more than Back up DPS, Back up heals, and Back up Power regen?</P> <P>I know these changes are not official, and even after they are, there will be some tweaking.  I am hoping that our DPS is on par with wizards and warlocks (which I dont think it will) or that our debuffs/utility will be greater or at the very least on par with a brigand.  I guess we will really have to wait and see how everything shakes out, but at the moment I have my concerns.</P>

[Lodor]

<P>"Pets will also always be lower level than the necro"</P> <P> </P> <P>Pets are the exact same level as the caster long as you are using the newest pet of each archtype.</P>

[Shrieken]

These changes look great, it will be interesting to see what two or more necros in a group can achieve and how damage output and buffing strategy in raids works out. <<< Necros do it with corpses >>> <div></div>

[Grawler2]

For the person wondering what will happen to his siphon life adept 3 spell if that spell is now 50.  You will still have it . The only thing is that you wont be able to use it until you reach 50.  Remember when they made the change where you were suppose to get a spell at ,6  but you were getting at .5 instead.  Well you did not lose it you just could not use it until you reach .6. <div></div>

[prince_sd]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kalsyre wrote: <P>My other concern is our lack of debuffs.  Brigands are also a Tier 2 DPS class.  So while they do similar damage, they get some of the best debuffs in game, they wear medium armor, they have very high avoidance, more HPs than a necro, and some of the best utility abilities in game (path finding, invis, evac, track, disarm).  My concern is how will a necro contribute on a raid?  I think we will be viable in xp groups.  But on raids, we may have our DPS severely limited by the innability to keep pets alive.  And we dont have any decent buffs or debuffs to contribute.  Will we end up being nothing more than Back up DPS, Back up heals, and Back up Power regen?<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Kalsyre, let me assure you necros are prized in raid situations. I distinctly remember a thread detailing necro raid role but i will recap it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Even though we are second tier dps, that is in group situations.</DIV> <DIV>In raids, for longer fights we do sustained dps and never run out of power and are usually among the top few in dps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- FD and rez combo is deadly. And, now we even get a combat rez</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Modhearts are so important that most raids this is reason enough to get 1-2 necros. With power being a big concern after revamp this will be more crucial</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Debuffs - we do have our own set of debuffs, though we got punted in this department in the combat revamp, we still debuff defense, wis (remember damage bonus for lower wis), sta, poison and disease.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your concern about AOE killing our summoned mini-pets is correct. Hopefully, faster recast should help us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Kalsy]

<DIV> <DIV> <P>I guess I am just surprised at how necros will be taking a back seat on buffs/debuffs/utility spells to other Tier 1 and Tier 2 classes.  Here are some comparisons on debuffs/utility spells from test data so far....</P> <P> </P> <P><STRONG><U>Necro (Tier 2/3 DPS Class)</U></STRONG></P> <P>Debuff - Horrific Mark (39):  -37 Sta, -37 Wis, +37 Sta & +37 Wis to Necro</P> <P>Debuff - Necromantic Symbol (42):  25% chance to -336 poison & -336 disease (only with pet buff)</P> <P>Debuff - Words of the Wicked (39):  10% chance to -9.7 parry, -9.7 defense (only with pet buff)</P> <P>Buff - Aspect of Undead (49):  +262 power, +470 disease resist, +588 poison resist</P> <P>Buff - Teachings of the Dead (40):  +12 Sta, +12 Int</P> <P>Utility - Invis, Power Transfer, 1 Root, 1 Stun, Feign Death, Ressurect, Fear, Small Heal</P> <P><STRONG><U></U></STRONG> </P> <P><STRONG><U></U></STRONG> </P> <P><STRONG><U>Warlock (Tier 1 DPS Class)</U></STRONG></P> <P>Debuff - Chaotic Maelstrom (41):  -558 poison & disease, 50% chance to spread to secondary target when damaged</P> <P>Debff - Curse of Nil (42):  -47 Str, -47 Int</P> <P>Debuff - Curse of Emptiness (39):  -390 health, -252 power</P> <P>Debuff - Vulian Gift (47):  10% chance to -23 power, -96 power over 4 seconds</P> <P>Buff - Aspect of darkness (49):  +349 power, +627 disease resist, +784 poison resist</P> <P>Buff - Seal of Dark Rumination (40):  +4.9 skill points to every class</P> <P>Utility - Invis, Power transfer, 6 different Stuns,  2 Root 2, dmg shields, decrease threat spell</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P><STRONG><U>Brigand Tier 2 DPS Class)</U></STRONG></P> <P><BR>Debuff - Murderous Rake (4<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />:  -864 vs all magical damage</P> <P>Debuff - Tani's Violent Rake (40):  -780 to all resists</P> <P>Debuff - Run Through (49):  -46 Str</P> <P>Debuff - Wrangle (50):  -47 Str, -9.6 Defense</P> <P>Debuff - Debilitate (50):  -1100 mitigation</P> <P>Debuff - Concealed Blade (43):  -17.2% attack speed</P> <P>Debuff - Desperate Thrust (44):  -8.9 Defense</P> <P>Debuff - Elsi's Wounding Gash (20):  -21 Agi</P> <P>Debuff - Waylay (43):  -27 Parry</P> <P>Debuff - Upbraid (3<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />:  Dispels 190 levels of beneficial divine buffs</P> <P>Buff - Daring Advance (41):  +10.8 to slashing, piercing, ranged</P> <P>Buff - Aegis (41):  +57 Str, +369 mititation vs physical</P> <P>Buff - Blackguard (46):  +64 Sta, +11.4 Defense, -8.4% dps</P> <P>Utility - Evac, Invis, Track, Pathfinding, Snares, Stuns, Threat reducers, Snare, Stealth</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Ok...after looking at this...Brigands obviously are the kings of debuffs.  Of course they have some awesome utility spells as well.  They also get medium armor, high avoidance, and higher hps all while doing the same damage as a necro with a high dps pet.  If the pet isnt viable on raids, the necro dps will drop off significantly.  All that being said, even the warlock has better buffs and debuffs than the necro while at the same time being a Tier 1 DPS class.  As for utility spells, I think necro has a slight edge, but not enough to offset the other discrepancies.  I mean, you choose a warlock for dps and you choose a Bridgand for debuffs and dps.  Are necros good for mana tokens, 1 min combat res, and a 480 pt heal every 8 seconds?</P></DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by Kalsyre on <span class=date_text>08-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:58 PM</span>

[El Chupacabr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kalsyre wrote:<BR> <DIV> <DIV> <P>I guess I am just surprised at how necros will be taking a back seat on buffs/debuffs/utility spells to other Tier 1 and Tier 2 classes.  Here are some comparisons on debuffs/utility spells from test data so far....</P> <P> </P> <P><STRONG><U>Necro (Tier 2/3 DPS Class)</U></STRONG></P> <P>Debuff - Horrific Mark (39):  -37 Sta, -37 Wis, +37 Sta & +37 Wis to Necro</P> <P>Debuff - Necromantic Symbol (42):  25% chance to -336 poison & -336 disease (only with pet buff)</P> <P>Debuff - Words of the Wicked (39):  10% chance to -9.7 parry, -9.7 defense (only with pet buff)  <FONT color=#66ff00>This debuffs our pet by 9.7 parry and defense, the 10% is the chance of the lifetap proc to go off.</FONT></P> <P>Buff - Aspect of Undead (49):  +262 power, +470 disease resist, +588 poison resist</P> <P>Buff - Teachings of the Dead (40):  +12 Sta, +12 Int</P> <P>Utility - Invis, Power Transfer, 1 Root, 1 Stun, Feign Death, Ressurect, Fear, Small Heal</P> <P>(/snip)</P> <P>Ok...after looking at this...Brigands obviously are the kings of debuffs.  Of course they have some awesome utility spells as well.  They also get medium armor, high avoidance, and higher hps all while doing the same damage as a necro with a high dps pet.  If the pet isnt viable on raids, the necro dps will drop off significantly.  All that being said, even the warlock has better buffs and debuffs than the necro while at the same time being a Tier 1 DPS class.  As for utility spells, I think necro has a slight edge, but not enough to offset the other discrepancies.  I mean, you choose a warlock for dps and you choose a Bridgand for debuffs and dps.  Are necros good for mana tokens, 1 min combat res, and a 480 pt heal every 8 seconds?</P></DIV></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Kalsyre on <SPAN class=date_text>08-08-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:58 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Still have the worst group utility, which is what I was afraid of months ago when I wrote my long post comparing the mages utility abilities.  We've always had the worst mage utility and we've actually been nerfed pretty heavily in the utility department.  The long root is pretty nice as is the extra pet buff but on the whole our group and raid utility is pretty crappy since the sorcerers power dumps are still superior to our stones.</DIV>