Necro (and other) Info from IGN (Ask SOE #37)

[Handleba]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><p><span class="pageheader">Ask SOE #37</span></p><hr><i><b>Sassee:</b> Part of the changes coming to spells and combat arts is to adjust how much damage the various classes do in relation to each other. Can you tell us how the different subclasses will rank in relative damage potential?</i> <b>Steve "Moorgard" Danuser:</b> Without giving the precise DPS numbers we intend each class to have, I can list how the classes will relate to one another in damage output. There are basically five groupings that classes fall into, from highest amount of damage output to the lowest.First group:<ul><li>Wizard/Warlock</li><li>Assassin/Ranger</li></ul>Second group:<ul><li><font color="#cc0000" size="4">Conjurer/Necromancer (using damage pet)</font></li><li>Brigand/Swashbuckler</li></ul>Third group:<ul><li><font color="#cc0000" size="4">Coercer/Illusionist, Conjurer/Necromancer (using tank pet)</font></li><li>Troubador/Dirge</li><li>Bruiser/Monk</li></ul>Fourth group:<ul><li>Berserker/Shadowknight</li><li>Paladin/Guardian</li></ul>Fifth group:<ul><li>Fury/Warden</li><li>Defiler/Mystic</li><li>Inquisitor/Templar</li></ul>Keep in mind that these aren't absolutes. A Guardian who concentrates on damage output and upgrades his or her offensive abilities could surpass a Berserker who focuses on defensive capabilities. These are simply the general guidelines we're following where, all things being equal, the classes will be organized.The thing with class balance, though, is that all things are *never* equal. So much of the damage output of a class depends on how that class is played that it simply isn't possible for anyone to guarantee that a given class will always perform at a certain level under every circumstance. However, the above list should at least give players an idea of the direction our numbers will be taking.<font color="#cc0000" size="4"> <i><b>Sassee:</b> You've mentioned that part of the combat revamp is that spells and arts will no longer grow in potency as your character levels, but will instead be improved by upgrading their quality. What about spells and arts that currently grow throughout a character's life, such as conjurer and necromancer pets?</i>  <b>Steve "Moorgard" Danuser:</b> Though there may be some exceptions, spells that grow infinitely in the current system will typically be replaced by new spell lines that allow the abilities to be upgraded periodically. In the case of summoners, their pets will grow a certain number of levels before they stop growing, after which they'll be replaced by a new version of that pet.</font> <i><b>Sassee:</b> At the recent FanFaire you mentioned the idea of "reverse writs," where guild members could bring in items from drops to earn status instead of following the writs system. Can you tell us more how this is going to work and when we will be seeing it?</i> <b>Steve "Moorgard" Danuser:</b> We like the idea of letting guild members earn status through the activities they'd normally do. In this case, what we referred to as "reverse writs" would be items that drop from creatures that players hunt. Examining these items will reveal that they are wanted by various factions in the city. By bringing them in, you'll earn status for yourself and your guild.These items can likely be traded to other players, so those who aren't guilded can sell them to other players who are interested in increasing their guild status.An interesting notion was brought up at the recent community summit, where it was suggested that the NPCs looking for these items would call out to players who have them. This is a great idea, and we'll look into how complex it would be to implement such a concept. <i><b>Sassee:</b> At Fan Faire it was also mentioned that mobs would start dropping coin soon. Previously, the decision was to not have this system implemented. Can you comment on the basis behind this change?</i> <b>Steve "Moorgard" Danuser:</b> This is part of our overall plan to enhance the quality of dropped loot. Creatures that make sense to do so (most humanoid-type NPCs) will drop coin. In addition, we will be introducing new types of loot items that can be used in tradeskills or sold for cash. You'll be seeing this initially in the new zones introduced with the Splitpaw Saga, and it will soon be making its way into the rest of the live game.In addition, we'll be adding new types of useful loot. Items can drop that give a single charge of a buff or utility spell, for instance. We want adventuring to provide a nice variety of fun and useful items that have value. <i><b>Sassee:</b> A lot of players feel that some sort of AA (alternate advancement) in EQII for the end game would prove beneficial after reaching the level cap and help with giving players more character. Do you think that anything of that sort might be added to the game in the future?</i> <b>Steve "Moorgard" Danuser:</b> Introducing a type of alternative advancement path is definitely something we're talking about for the future. We're discussing different ideas for how one might work, and we would want it to be tied into the lore of the game rather than just a system tacked on for the sake of having it.The thing many players like about the AA system in EQ is that it gives you the opportunity to make choices and advance certain aspects of your character at your own pace. That's certainly a cool concept, and we want to bring additional forms of character diversity to the game going forward.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Handlebars on <span class="date_text">06-23-2005</span> <span class="time_text">10:22 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Handlebars on <span class=date_text>06-23-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:07 AM</span>

[El Chupacabr]

<P>Frankly, I'm not impressed one bit.</P> <P>Equal damage to illusionists when using the rotting thrall?  I'm not sure how our tank pet and subpar utility equals the massive utility (my definition of utility is all spells that don't do direct damage to a mob) of the enchanters.</P> <P>Less damage then predators when using a pet that is essentially a DoT?  We lose our parry skill, have less utility in this configuration then a sorcerer and maintain very light armor.  In this configuration we should be right next to sorcerers, all those DPS pets do is give us another damage type... if we're going against a disease immune mob (of which I'm sure many more will present themselves after the balance) our damage is gonna go into the ditch where as the wizard can cast either a fire or ice version of most of their spells.</P> <P>I've mentioned before that I haven't heard much, if anything, about utility overhauls... if our utility isn't given a major looking at in this balancing we are getting a bum deal.  Just using raw numbers, our current utility is currently the lowest of the mages.  I don't mind being in tier 2 and 3 after the balancing as long as we get valuable utilities to make up for it.</P>

[Urbanna]

HOLY CRAP - Chanters with actual DPS??? They're going to have to nerf the living hell out of fighters/priests to make this happen....or actually give chanters lovin....will be very interesting to see this part play out the summoner portion was pretty standard I think<div></div>

[Handleba]

El, they are looking at every single spell and how it operates.  Check out the warlock forum where one of there "half balanced" root spell made it onto the test server by accident.  I'm on the mindset to just wait and see right now, then start the complaining if I think we're getting hosed. <div></div>

[El Chupacabr]

That's why I put that caveat at the end of my little rant HB :smileywink:.

[Windego]

<DIV> <DIV>Bang on Elewood, after seeing this I went from hesistant with the combat changes to [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] right scared.  Is that the whole interview Handlebars?  I don't think it was very wise to release the vision for damage of the classes and then not comment on any utility changes, if any,  that are going to happen that justify those classes being ranked as such.  I would really like to see someone comment on the vision/direction of our class post combat revamp, but as it stands now I think I have a greater chance of meeting Elvis in the middle of Saskatchewan. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We should not be included in Tier 3 at all in my opinion.  When we have the "supposed" DPS pets up we should be at the top of tier 2 or bottom of Tier 1 and with the pet tank at the bottom or middle of Tier 2.  We should not be overlapping with any class from the figher archetype in any circumstance, having a tank pet up certainly does not justify it in my mind, and certainly we should not be doing the same damage as Coercers/Illusionists either in that situation.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Handlebars I really hope those Wizard/Warlock spells that were leaked to test are not a vision of things to expect.  I am weary those that are adjusting the spells are skipping what might be important issues for us, (eg pet damage/useless pets, low utility) in favor of ensuring that the more flasher/populated/need to get more of classes are adjusted properly in time for when they want to release these changes.  Gallenite said two weeks in the June producers letter before we would probably start seeing changes on test.  Does anyone know of a level 50 Necromancer that plays on test that will be able to provide us insight on the changes and problems that might occur or heck at least be able to provide feedback to the developers before it is live?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now I'm sure someone can come here and blow smoke up my azz that things will all be dandy and to trust them, but after seeing bugs still in the game from beta, lack of depth for raids, spells/combat arts broken on live for 7 months, well I'm not buying the "all things will be gravy, trust us" anymore, the lack of direction and DETAILED proposals for the game as a whole is frightening, and the comments to some fansite first instead of these forums/consumers is disheartening in the least.</DIV></DIV>

[Handleba]

I will be testing these changes on test as soon as they are put up there with my 50 necro.  I am taking screen shots of all of my spells at level 50 and then am going to compare them with the changes.  I will also be looking into any new spell lines if they are introduced to the necro class.  And yes, this was the whole interview.  There is a post on the Zerker forum with the link to the page. <div></div>

[Named]

<DIV>Hey Handlebars... What is your test necro's name?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Urbannaja... You should sell me that master RT! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally I think these combat changes could go either way. They have the potential to really FIX the game, but they also have the potential to be the finishing blow. If sony doesn't play this right, then eq2 will see a huge player loss.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We will just have to wait and see... <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Urbanna]

<span><blockquote><hr>Named88 wrote:<div>Hey Handlebars... What is your test necro's name?</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>Urbannaja... You should sell me that master RT! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div> <div> </div> <hr></blockquote>lol</span><div></div>

[Handleba]

Handelbars.  Note that Handlebars and Handelbars and not the same thing.  For some reason, the name filter didn'ts allow Handlebars. <div></div>

[Boran]

Yup, feeling a bit more apprehensive about these changes now. However, I'm glad that you'll be testing this Handlebars. Good to know that we will be properly represented on test (now lets hope that soe listens to what they are told <span>:smileywink:</span>)

[Named]

<DIV>I want to duel you Handelbars.... =P</DIV>

[Handleba]

Riz, we'll do some cross server tells and setup a time to meet on test <span>:smileytongue:</span> <div></div>

[perkinsow]

You know i dont mind this list .. but how does this take into  account that we still never run out of power ever?  i wonder if we will still be the king of the long fight.

[Named]

<DIV>Actually with all these new revamped  field mobs, plus the overall game wide mana regen "nerfs" ( I wouldn't call them nerfs, but I don't want the point of my post to be missed =p ), our mana regen items are going to catapult us to one of the top utility classes in the game. I would consider a necro behind chanters, bards, and about even with monks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The other day my guild took out the new and improved Lord Nagalik. Now let me say... It was a VERY hard fight. Agro is sketchy with him in the first place and with the new random 10k dmg abilitiy thing that all these new field mobs get, he is a pain. We had 5 priests and 1 paladin. They are all spamming me for modrods because the damage output on these new revamped mobs is insane.</DIV>

[quamdar]

i do think that the modrods are very nice but the thirty second recast on summoning them and having only one charge really sucks imo.  hopefully one of those two things changes so either they have more charges or like a 10 second cast time to resummon. <div></div>

[angan]

Quoted ---------------------------meh DPS uber!mah pet tanks like no tomorrow!mah utility rocks, Dark Heart, See Invis, Shape Change, man!----------------------------------... [Removed for Content].....<p>Message Edited by angan55 on <span class=date_text>06-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:30 PM</span>

[Named]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> angan55 wrote:<BR>Quoted ---------------------------<BR>meh DPS uber!<BR>mah pet tanks like no tomorrow!<BR>mah utility rocks, Dark Heart, See Invis, Shape Change, man!<BR>----------------------------------<BR><BR>... [Removed for Content]<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>. <P>Message Edited by angan55 on <SPAN class=date_text>06-24-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:30 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You quoted that from whom?</DIV>

[angan]

RizazThat is from my own message, Subject is "LU #9." (right now is some 3 pages back)

[tonemand]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> quamdar wrote:<BR>i do think that the modrods are very nice but the thirty second recast on summoning them and having only one charge really sucks imo.  hopefully one of those two things changes so either they have more charges or like a 10 second cast time to resummon.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>At least you can keep six folks supported with a 10-second recast, cause the 60-second use timer will be the only bottleneck for them after that.  Personally I am looking forward to seeing the changes myself.  I am simply expecting the worst though, being a pessimist by nature for good measure <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Nainitsuj]

<DIV>I hope they lube it up before they give us the shaft.  We're not gonna be able to sit once this balance goes in.</DIV>

[pyrotechn]

<DIV>I don't want ModRods for utility.  Constant chain casting on people, using my mana to give them theirs, so that they can make decisions on how it should best be spent.  If you played EQ1, twitching was the most complained about necro ability.  If, for some reason, they decide to add mana regen as one of your utility features (as opposed to say making our pets actually absorb damage in group encounters) then they should just add a mana regen component to favor of the fallen and that line of buffs.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>N.B. When you make mana twitching / modrodding a targetted spell, the necro will be called on to modrod every priest in the raid.  At least with a group buff, there is a limit to the number (only 5 other people affected), and creates some real strategy about which group to place the necromancer in.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[El Chupacabr]

<span><blockquote><hr>pyrotechnic wrote:<div>I don't want ModRods for utility.  Constant chain casting on people, using my mana to give them theirs, so that they can make decisions on how it should best be spent.  If you played EQ1, twitching was the most complained about necro ability.  If, for some reason, they decide to add mana regen as one of your utility features (as opposed to say making our pets actually absorb damage in group encounters) then they should just add a mana regen component to favor of the fallen and that line of buffs.  </div> <div> </div> <div>N.B. When you make mana twitching / modrodding a targetted spell, the necro will be called on to modrod every priest in the raid.  At least with a group buff, there is a limit to the number (only 5 other people affected), and creates some real strategy about which group to place the necromancer in.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote></span>We already have a "modrod" spell as do the conjurers while sorcerers have targetable direct power dumps.  I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. <div></div>

[Windego]

<P>Think he is saying with the power regen equiptment adjustments and encounter changes that he doesn't want to be casting Hearts every 30 seconds.  Neither do I.  Alot of us are the only necro in there respective guilds, do you really want to be spending possibly 5mins just to give every priest or heavy power user a mod rod before every fight/after a wipe.  Not to mention tells during an encounter from 5+ people possibly wanting your 1 heart on a 30 second recast, so fun (sarcasm).  The whole lineup should be like a 5 or 3 charge and on a reuse timer like  they put in like eq1 where they just can't blow through all 3 or 5 charges in 1 second.</P>

[pyrotechn]

<DIV>While we do have "modrods", the post ahead of mine thinks better necro utility is faster recast time for our modrods.  That is just an invite to chain twitching.</DIV>

[Urbanna]

Why not make it a group spell? You cast it once, and everyone in the group gets a heart. Keeps the strategy as to which group the necro is in, allows the user to get the mana when they need it, and keeps us from having to cast every 30 seconds. <div></div>

[pyrotechn]

<P>I can live with that (I would see it as a positive for our class, if thats how it was worked).  However, I still hope they come up with something more interesting for necro utility.  Our pets are currently one dimensional in groups; pretty much every necro regards our pets, even the tank pet, as mere "dots."  If the tank pet was actually able to absorb damage (e.g. intervenining between an attacker and its target) or a realistic chance to force agro in emergencies, i would consider that real utility.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by pyrotechnic on <span class=date_text>06-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:17 AM</span>

[Nibbl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Urbannaja wrote:<BR>HOLY CRAP -<BR><BR>Chanters with actual DPS??? They're going to have to nerf the living hell out of fighters/priests to make this happen....or actually give chanters lovin....will be very interesting to see this part play out<BR><BR><BR>the summoner portion was pretty standard I think <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><FONT size=2> <P>Probably going to give chanters AE dd spells, break their own mezzes… It’s a cruel world :smileysurprised:</P> <P>On the necro pet thing, I’m glad they will still level along with my toon. At least up to a certain level :smileywink:</P></FONT><BR>

[Splatterpunk28]

<P>They haven't mentioned anything about utility for any classes as far as I know, so no need to go up in arms over that -- yet.</P> <P>And, also, it sounds like there will be an increase in dps.  The enchanter thing is throwing things off a bit, I think.  Better than monks/bruisers when in dps mode?  Umm...that's significantly more than now.    </P> <P>And who knows what they mean by enchanter dps anyway?  They say equal dps when necro's are in non-dps mode (tank pet).  Shall we assume both solo'ing somehow would be doing equal dps?  Are they talking about when chanters group haste or if they charm pets?  Are they talking direct damage or AoE spells?  Or if utitlizing all 3 at the same time?  Enchanters currently have the lowest dps in the game.</P> <P>Anyway, being that's so little information; the only thing I get out of it is dps will increase and dots will stack with different necro's.</P>

[Suraklin]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> pyrotechnic wrote:<BR> <DIV>I don't want ModRods for utility.  Constant chain casting on people, using my mana to give them theirs, so that they can make decisions on how it should best be spent.  If you played EQ1, twitching was the most complained about necro ability.  If, for some reason, they decide to add mana regen as one of your utility features (as opposed to say making our pets actually absorb damage in group encounters) then they should just add a mana regen component to favor of the fallen and that line of buffs.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>N.B. When you make mana twitching / modrodding a targetted spell, the necro will be called on to modrod every priest in the raid.  At least with a group buff, there is a limit to the number (only 5 other people affected), and creates some real strategy about which group to place the necromancer in.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Wish they'd do the mana regen for a group like they did in EQOA. I played a *Power* necro in it. Had a spell you'd cast on a mob and it would steal mana from the mob and give it to all group members. It was a great spell. Got one at 20,30, 40, and 49 and you could chain cast all of them for major mana replinsihment for group members.</DIV>

[pyrotechn]

<P>One thing i don't want is too many mana spells (spllinter of essence, dark heart, existing training options, and whatever else thats coming down the pipeline).  Why don't I want this?  Because being able to sustain mana generation over time is unique to the necro; its  one of the very few things we can do that other classes can't.  But if you give us too many mana spells, u won't be doing anything but chain casting your different mana spells on group mates when they run dry.  Also its important that the other classes run out of mana, else all combat becomes trivialized.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Suraklin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> pyrotechnic wrote:<BR> <P>One thing i don't want is too many mana spells (spllinter of essence, dark heart, existing training options, and whatever else thats coming down the pipeline).  Why don't I want this?  Because being able to sustain mana generation over time is unique to the necro; its  one of the very few things we can do that other classes can't.  But if you give us too many mana spells, u won't be doing anything but chain casting your different mana spells on group mates when they run dry.  Also its important that the other classes run out of mana, else all combat becomes trivialized.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Not the way it worked in EQOA. Necromancer in EQOA weren't twitchers like they were in EQ1. Usually only had to cast one mana spell per battle to keep people going. Still had plenty of time to actually do DPS in the group. The only reason to chain cast mana spells was if adds came into the picture. I don't know what world you live in but I like my group mates to never run out of power so xp goes faster and I'm a casual player not a power grinder like most of the level 50's in the game.<BR>

[pyrotechn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Suraklin wrote:<BR><BR>I don't know what world you live in but I like my group mates to never run out of power so xp goes faster and I'm a casual player not a power grinder like most of the level 50's in the game.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>In my opinion, power generates fast enough outside of combat that we don't have to worry about necros needing to generate it inside of combat to keep the exp moving.  We could just as easily increase out of combat mana generation if that were truly a problem.  In combat, I think mana and hp regeneration needs to be held in check so as not to trivialize combat.  Once the treshhold is reached where mana can be produced at a rate faster than what is needed to sustain healing, it will be like reaching a critical point and tactics will shift to long fights and chain modrodding as they always do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by pyrotechnic on <span class=date_text>07-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:54 PM</span>