LU #9

[Saratane]

<DIV>I knew it before, and was still hoping ... but now there is no excuse anymore....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SoE doesn't love us ... not even a slightly fix on our spells, not an adjustement nothing....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>( I know I m [Removed for Content] but throw us a freaking bone !!! ) Maybe we are a low % playing necro but we freaking pay like everyone)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>S.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[angan]

I hear ya.Problem is Us! We post DPS sucksOne of us says - meh DPS uber!We post Pet sucks One of us posts - mah pet tanks like no tomorrow!We post low utilityOne of us posts - mah utility rocks, Dark Heart, See Invis, Shape Change, man!/sarcasm offBut sincerely folks. Before you post, please compare your DPS to other classes.Your pet can manage aggro as good as (better not say!)Utility, you know the truth.It's not gonna happen till we all voice it together.

[sithlord]

<DIV>SONY - This is the what annoys us necro's. You go and make small and or large updates to th other classses. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You fix their spells, you tweak and balance and or change everything to your hearts content. But NOWHERE, and i do mean NOWHERE is there acknowledgement that the necro class needs a lot of work done on it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Two perfect examples are these - </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1.  Deathly Pallor - Master 1. We all know that the spell description is totally [Removed for Content]. But has any attempt been made to fix it.</DIV> <DIV>     If it wasnt for these very threads, i would not have been aware of this issue. Why the hell do i, or anyone else that plays E.Q.2 need to trawl through the forums     </DIV> <DIV>     to find  out that this is the case.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2.  Teachings of the Dead - Adept 1. Where the hell is my Int bonus of 23- 27.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Surely some attempt can be made to fix these types of issues. But you seem content to bring out all this new content, while leaving existing content incorreclty decribed or just plain broken.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You wonder why people are complaining. I feel that they have right to be annoyed. How hard would it be just to let us know that measures are in progress to remedy part of, or all of these types of situations. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know what will happen next. To quote the great band - Blind Guardian. "AND THEN THERE WAS SILENCE".</DIV>

[Hidohebhi]

I'll add my voice to this.  I wasn't expecting a huge fix with LU9 but I was really hoping to see the pets fixed, even if just the animations.  Things have been promised to us since oh..LU4?  This patch adds no value to me personally. <div></div>

[legaleagle]

<DIV> <P>meh DPS ubah!  We are teh l33t!!!ONETHOUSANDONEHUNDREDELEVENPOINTONE!!111</P> <P> </P> <P>I know you're talkin' bout me :smileywink:</P> <P> </P> <P>The problem as I see it, is that it seems that you want us to be the following - taken from your list:</P> <P>DPS Kings (Wizards, Warlocks, Mages, assassins, etc should out-dps us... that's their job!)</P> <P>Pet Kings (should be about equal to mage pets, and I think they are, with exceptions noted below)</P> <P>Group utility kings (isn't this reserved for bards and chanters?)</P> <P> </P> <P>We cannot, and should not, do all of these things to the extent you seem to want.  This isn't EQ1 (after 3 years when necro became lords of all they surveyed) or EQOA (similar story, shorter time frame).  I've played them both, and got bored relatively quickly.  We should be decent at a lot of things, and useless in very few.  I think we are close to there.  </P> <P>The improvements I would make are spells scaling better, pets getting stronger and more useful as we level instead of us just waiting for the next fighter pet because the rest suck, and dot stacking.</P> <P>I've never been kicked out of a group because my DPS wasn't as high as a mage's (or heck, as high as a SK's!) or because I couldn't buff as well as a bard or control a crowd like a chanter, etc.  Maybe I've just been lucky in that I haven't faced the necro discrimination that you have, I don't know.   Most people I know don't look for that perfect group.  We're just happy getting 6 people on the same page with the ability to kill stuff.   </P> <P>Here are the things that I feel I can do well enough to make the class worth playing:</P> <P>solo.  I can take orange mobs with usually no problem - although now that I've outgrown the FH, the UA actually makes this more difficult.  I can take groups of up to 3, non-herioc mobs that are 2 levels below me.  I haven't tried any higher, but I'm guessing that with some practice I could.  (pet and dogs on target 1, maybe a dot, run in circles until mob is dead, pet on target 2, root target 3 and nuke the heck out of target 2 until dead, pet on target 3).</P> <P>group.  I think we have a debuff for every type of nuke, so I throw those on for the wizzie's benefit if the battle will last a minute.  I can occupy an add or two with the pet for a while if necessary, or I can root it away from the group.  Better than a chanter mez for a single add because a single hit from a party member won't make the mob charge the ally because pet is doing damage the whole time.  I can stun caster mobs with 2 different spells (Gimble's Shocking Burst and the regular spell).  I can allow everyone to breath underwater - wahoo!  not a biggie, but still.  I can nuke for decent amounts, Pest Blast and Dust Blast each do over 100, the master strikes do almost 300.  I can pull with the pet so the tank doesn't absorb the initial combat art of the mob.  I can ward group members during combat (the Ad3 of Grisly Brace is 411 at my lvl.. not bad) to save a little healing.  I never run out of power because we have 3 power replacement spells.  Short fights are certainly not our forte, because we do damage slowly.  On the other hand, long fights are not the forte of wizzies, because they either blow their load too quickly and get aggro, or have to wait a while between blasts to insure they don't get aggro.  While they're waiting, we still laying on the dmg via pet and dots.    </P> <P> </P> <P>I will freely admit that the class has a few significant issues but I have never felt gimped or unwanted.  DPS isn't all there is to the game.  Group utility or pet strenght isn't either.  YOu have to look at everything as a whole.  Big Picture thinking.  If you wanted the best DPS in the game, you should have made a wiz.  FH could manage aggro well enough for me to solo.  In a group or compared to any tank class, it was horrible, and it should be!  It would never replace a real live tank with real intelligence and spells to manage aggro.  However, if you're in a group, your pet shouldn't be the one managing aggro!  Utility is not nearly as bad as you make it out, imo.  </P></DIV>

[angan]

meh DPS ubah! We are teh l33t!!!ONETHOUSANDONEHUNDREDELEVENPOINTONE!!111=== ================================================== ====================Lol bro, I wasn't talking about you or anyone specific for that matter. This is the way I feel. I would have loved to play a pet class with DPS (pet+mine) being at par with other DPS classes. Because my view, being jack of all trades doesn't take us anywhere. I would rather be good at the only thing I do. The way people see groups now, is tank+healer+dps. Well firstly why groups, because this is suppose to be MMORPG and not just RPG, I would rather be playing Diablo, Morrowind type games. I can understand casual player, and soloability issue, but that shouldn't be one of the main objectives. So going back to what I was saying. Think of it logically. Say 7 classes are LFG, all level 35, SK, Fury, Necro, Inquisitor, Assassin, Ranger, and Warlock. Anyone but the Necro starts inviting other team members. What do you think the selection is going to be? My point.

[legaleagle]

<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>I would love to put all my DoT's on the person that said Nerf the necros.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's you from the "Necro's never really take off, until 37 anyway" thread. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P>I was saying to myself, I think they need to nerf necros, because we shouldn't be able to solo red mobs at this level, should we? </P> <P></P> <HR> <P>that's me from "when do eq2 necros take off" thread.</P> <P>Its me... trust me its me.  Tis ok, depending on what DOT's you have...:smileywink: </P> <P> </P>

[angan]

Legal, don't take it personally! It is not you specific. Anyone that says Nerf the Necros, gets Ghastly Stench, Plague of Rats, and my as-s pet <- big bada boom!We are getting off topic here.Going back to the Live Update. Anyone not aware of the EQ-2 classes and reads the last couple of LU notes, will never know there is a class called The Necromancers!And forget class balancing... all we got so far are fixes to the spells that were really broken. Why would SoE bother, we don't want it ourselves! We are happy with our pathetic pets before and after RT. We are happy with, we are suppose to be DPS class but come last in the rank. We are happy once in a while we get a group. We are happy...<p>Message Edited by angan55 on <span class=date_text>05-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:25 AM</span><p>Message Edited by angan55 on <span class=date_text>05-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:28 AM</span>

[ume]

<DIV>eww..triple posted.</DIV><p>Message Edited by umerr on <span class=date_text>06-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:33 AM</span>

[ume]

<DIV>eww..triple posted.</DIV><p>Message Edited by umerr on <span class=date_text>06-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:34 AM</span>

[ume]

<DIV>eww..triple posted.</DIV> <p>Message Edited by umerr on <span class=date_text>06-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:33 AM</span>

[ume]

<P>I understand there is some inner class debate going on.  I won't go on and on about how awesome my necro is.  I am completely satisfied with my necro.  Dealing with a few minor bugs isn't too bad when you compare yourselves to mystics with lots of broken spells and a huge nerf to their powerful debuff.  My mystic uses 40-60 percent power on every solo mob with no power regen.</P> <P>Anyway, the point I want to make is that there is a HUGE spell revamp in the works from all that I read so expect some big changes soon.  Hopefully for the better!</P> <p>Message Edited by umerr on <span class=date_text>05-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:49 AM</span>

[El Chupacabr]

<P>We just aren't going to see any changes 'til the combat revamp goes live (at the earliest).  Once the fighter dps nerfs go in along with the lengthened fights and the improved pets (if I believe that one, not sure I do), that's when we can evaluate just how bad off we are compared to other classes.  We have been getting gradually better since release and should continue to do so.</P> <P>You've made so many glass is half empty posts recently, angan55... the community at large knows what our problems are and have been discussing them for six months.  The reason we don't seem to get together as a group is because these problems have been discussed ad nauseum with the devs agreeing with our concerns and promising us fixes.  We all know our pets are broken and there are probably a couple hundred posts regarding it, same with all our other problems.  The responses you have been getting are explaining how to make the most of your character, not saying that we are perfect.</P> <P>Also, combatstats (the parser you've been using) does not accurately reflect summoner dps.  If you really want to compare your dps to a group, use eqcompanion.</P>

[Kron]

<P>Why eqcompanion over combatstats?</P> <P>I don't use a parser currently, but I thought combatstats was supposed to be "THE" parser to use because they had the best parsing algorithm.</P> <P>How is combatstats broken, or what does eqcompanion do better/correctly over it?</P>

[El Chupacabr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kronor wrote:<BR> <P>Why eqcompanion over combatstats?</P> <P>I don't use a parser currently, but I thought combatstats was supposed to be "THE" parser to use because they had the best parsing algorithm.</P> <P>How is combatstats broken, or what does eqcompanion do better/correctly over it?</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I've always found it to booger up summoners fight start times since it gets confused by pet taps.  I like companion because it gives a breakdown of everything you've done in a fight, how many mobs AoE's hit etc.  It's a more detailed breakdown of the fight and has always seemed to give a more accurate reflection of total damage done in a fight (the only number that really matters).  Combatstats seems to give some peculiar numbers depending on who in group is actually using it and you will see fairly large discrepencies between multiple parsers in the same group.  Companion generally gives the same numbers no matter how many people in a fight parse with it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I certainly don't begrudge stats as it's a handy tool but for real, quantative parsing I prefer to see what everyone in a fight did with everyones start times.</DIV>

[Membra]

<DIV>I haven't used EQ Companion in a while but really liked the interface. If I ran it off a laptop next to my eq2 machine it produces some nice real-time views of combat and you can actually see our huge swing in dps as we necros get dot after dot to land. The only thing I found screwy was it would include my mana tap damage done to my pet to my total dps.  Anyone know a way to turn this off or has there been an update to it? I would love to go back to this parcer.</DIV>

[Nebulari]

<P>I took a brek from my Necro because like some other posters in this forum I had big problem finding anyone to play with.  Some of the guilds I applied to would not consider me because of the Necro class being broken right now (it is no secret that we need some help) and they would not be using me for raids and such.  But the enchanter classes I guess have a similiar problem from what I am reading and from some of the guild rosters I have looked at.</P> <P>One guild had a limit of two high level Necros and thats it!!!</P> <P>I took my Necro into the FG with some guys that needed a hand the other night and hitting for 60 with Dust blast and 35 with an adept III lighting blast (because I have no really good spells yet) seems pathetic to me.  I realize I am only Level 22 but C'mon........</P> <P>I expected to see some Necro help with LU9 as well!  I mean SOE nerfed the provisioners in it and also did some work on the other classes but the lonely Necro did not get any Love at all ?</P> <P>I would like to atleast see some higher level pet damage or some cool utility spells for us to use in an encounter.  Maybe like an AoE instant damage spell or some spell that would grant increased strength to the main tank.... they could name it Deaths Unholy Hands or something LOL</P> <P>I play another caster class and I get picked up really fast when I turn on the LFG.  There are not to many of this class either as most people choose wizards I think.  I am 1 of two warlocks in my new guild and the only Necromancer (they took that toon because of the Warlock) currently we have 65 members.</P> <P>I like the Necro sometimes because we can solo but like another poster so eloquently stated this is not an RPG its a MMORG and as such the fun is in grouping with other people.  Its hard to do that when no one wants to take up a slot that could be used for a DPS or Healer for an underpowered class with less utility to boot.</P> <P>I agree that we are good at some things but having had to grind all the way to 22 with maybe two group experiences I got bored and started to feel the disappointment with the class.  When you think about this in a personal aspect:  A real person spends a great deal of time and effort to learn a class.  We spend time and effprt to advance in our class and experieinces.  We EXPECT some reward for that effort and when you see none you become frustrated.  In real life if you worked and never got a pay check you would move on to another job.  In this game it is a similiar experience I think.  </P> <P>Why spend countless hours leveling and grinding when you have to do it all alone?  It is just no fun IMO and takes away from what should be an enjoyable experience.  We play this game for the entertainment and a challenge.  Right now for the Necromancer of Norrath there is a great deal of challenge but very little that is enjoyable with all the broken spell and pets we have.</P>

[angan]

Would like to add a couple of thingsI.Necros are a dps class. Period. If we are not a dps class, what are we then? The classes are usually laid out likeTanking ability: fighter > rogue > priest > mageDPS: fighter < scout < priest < mageMage Classes (DPS)Nukes: Warlock / Wiz > Conj / Necro DoT: Warlock < Wiz / Conj < Necro Pet: Warlock / Wiz < Conj / NecroWhole lot of other stuff like AoE, Utility etc. goes in there too, but don't want to make the post unnecessarily long. Right now it is a big big mess. And it looks like, if you want dps choose a warlock. Other wise choose a tank or healer. We know there is a “big” combat change on way. But do you think the whole necro class is going to be balanced to the other dps overnight? If Int does affect damage, please don't forget that, it will affect other classes too! And we will still be scaled to where we are right now.II.One more thing I would like to point out is, everyone talks about how “ubah” necros are in terms of power! If you are in a group/raid (MMORPG) and everyone is down to OOP, Necros with full power does what? a) Talk to other members of the group, about how nice the weather is in your area.b) Think, why god created MMORPGsc) Talk to pet and ask where he is from? How his parents are doing, wife, children...?