Frigid Wings, Pyromancy and AA

[Jinry]

Well, I tried to read all topics about new AA but don't find answer to my questions. I'm mainly a raider but sometimes want to play solo. So for my AA I have some questions: At that second my choice can be: Enhance: Snapping Mandibles (5) Enhance: Fiery Annihilation (5) Enhance: Deluge (5) Enhance: Shattered Terrain (3) Enhance: Frigid Winds (2) Unabate (1) Enhance: Fire pet (5) Enhance: Pyromancy (5) Enhance: Earth pet (5) Enhance: Heal servant (5) Cure Elemental (3) Enhance: Blazing Avatar (6)My questions are:1) I don't knwo if it's very usefull to put 5 points in Enhance: Shattered Terrain, or 3 in and 2 (or more ?) in Frigid Winds ? I don't know is Enhance Frigid Winds can be very usefull or not2) MoreOver, nobody speak about Enhance: Pyromancy and Fire Pet. Is there no interest in choose them for the recast of the pet or boost the dps of the pet ? I tried it once and I find it maybe interesting.3) Enhance: Geotic Seal, Elemental Vestmen or Fireshield can be usefull or not in raids ?Thanks you <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Lader]

<P>1) as a conjuror that plays as a soloer, gruoper, and raider, i first chose the put 5 in blazing avatar, geotic seal, and enhance scintilla and the remaining points to get to 20 in elemental vestment. then bubble. next i took the enhance snapping mandibles, shattered terrain, deluge, fiery anhilation, and unabate. my remaining points will be in cure elemental, and in the fire pet's enhancement.</P> <P>2) i would never choose enhance pyromancy, it seems just a waste to me, since on raids an ae will usually take them out early anyway.</P> <P>3) enhance ev seems very useful to me, geotic seal is useful imo, others may disagree. enhance pyreshield is not worth the points imo.</P>

[Ankle Biter]

<P>imo for a raiding conj putting points in the Conjuration tree is a waste. The swarm pets AA's aren't going to boost your dps as much as some of the other AA's... Simply, there are better places for you to spend your points.</P> <P>Frigid Winds AA = complete waste imo. This AA does exactly the opposite of what I would want my Frigid Winds to do. FW is a kiting spell imo, not a dmg spell. I use it when I'm kiting mobs, reducing it's duration is not what it needed. This spell is not good for dmg, it uses more power than it's worth unless you are kiting with it. I wouldn't put anything in this one (put them in ST or one of the others)</P> <P>Geotic Seal!!!! Max this one imo. As well as the Restore Servant (get the relic pants!, 4sec recast ftw)</P><p>Message Edited by Ankle Biter on <span class=date_text>01-18-2007</span> <span class=time_text>07:23 AM</span>

[Banditman]

Raiding Conjuror here.Let's talk about that Frigid Winds enhancement.There are a lot more considerations to Frigid Winds than most folks here care to talk about.  If you never, or rarely solo, then there is no reason to forgo that AA.  For a raiding Conjuror, that AA can be a really good one.What you as a raiding Conjuror need to decide or perhaps watch is your power.  Enhanced Frigid Winds definitely does a lot of damage.  It also sucks a lot of power.  Frigid Winds is one of the most inefficient spells in your book when it comes down to damage per power.Now, as far as the other Evocation enhancements, yea, I love them all with no reservations.  The faster your spells cast, the faster you can get on to casting something else.  I'm not quite as convinced of the value of the Pyromancy / Aqueous Horde enhancements.As far as the Fire Pet enhancement, I think that the return on AA investment is too low.  Look, you put ONE AA point into Unabate and get 20% less resistable spells for yourself and your pet.  Great investment.  With Unabate, my resist rate is in the neighborhood of .5% . . . my pet is a little higher at .8%.Look at potential return after Unabate.Your pet casts 500 spells.  Of those 500 spells cast, four spells are resisted.  Even with the full 5 AA's into the Fire Pet enhancement, you are probably talking about a change of one resist in 500 spells cast.I dunno about you, but I have better ways to invest 5 AA's than one less resist per 500 spells cast.<div></div>

[Geothe]

<P>One thing about the pet enhancement AAs in the EoF tree.</P> <P>I think that choosing to get those would enable people to move points out of the Wis line in the KOS tree and put them elsewhere instead.. if they were using the Wis tree just for Minions Uproar.  So, in that regard, the ehancements may not be that much of a waste.</P>

[Banditman]

The reverse is also true.  Using them in the KoS tree means you don't have to do so in the EoF tree.Honestly, in my build, EoF AA's are far more valuable than KoS AA's.  I'd prefer to blow AA's in KoS.<div></div>

[Lader]

what else could you suggest in the eof aa's if youve done unabate and bubble? i have 1 point available for ev increase and i guess put the other 4 in the remaining spells in the unabate line...seems to me that its more dmg and thus more dps and effectiveness in raids.

[Traxor789]

Someone post the pont of the Frigid winds AA please.We get like a 45s snare that does damage but cant be broken and only really used during PVP or soloing and we get an AA that Reduces the duration??? If anything it should increase the duration . Why dont you give us an aa that makes our root go down in duration. Thats how I see it . If you made the dot Double proc or something or do more then a crappy 100-290 damage hit every 5 seconds then mabye but just wana know why Is this spell being seen as a DPS spell. Ya I use it when I dont have any spells up and for the rare chance of it procing a peice of my proc gear but with the .5 or w/e casting time I rarely see.<div></div>

[Banditman]

Forget the snare component for a moment.  Ignore it.As I stated above, I'm a raiding Conjuror.  I could care less about PvP or soloing.My Frigid Winds is Adept 3.  On raids, it ticks for an average of 279 per tick.  I've logged a tick of 488 recently.So, over the course of 48 seconds, my Frigid Winds delivers an average of 3627 HP of damage, or 75 DPS.An enhanced Frigid Winds would deliver the same amount of damage over 33 seconds, or at the rate of 110 DPS.  That's a 46% upgrade to the DPS of Frigid Winds for only 5 AA's.By way of comparison, the upgrade to Snapping Mandibles is only a 25% increase to the DPS of that spell.The enhanced Frigid Winds is actually the largest DPS increase of ANY of the Evocation AA's.For a raiding Conjuror, the enhanced Frigid Winds is a very viable choice.  A raiding Conjuror typically cares nothing about solo'ing since they are getting far better gear from their raid activities than they could ever get kiting heroics around.  PvP is not a consideration for the majority of raiding Conjurors.Therefore, contrary to popular opinion, the typical raiding Conjuror would actually be more than justified in taking the Frigid Winds enhancement provided their power pool can take the added drain that this would create.<div></div>

[Ankle Biter]

<P>I now see your point on the FW aa. Whats the power cost over it's duration? I suppose if power isn't an issue, then it would be a nice bump in dmg.</P> <P> </P> <P>I solo and raid, so no go for me. I love poping this spell combined with Master I Root, you can keep going as long as you need.</P>

[Traxor789]

<DIV>Like I said I do cast the spell when I have no other spells up like you said It does 3700 damage over a 37 second period for me nice even numbers so we will call it 100dps and im casting other dots and DD spells to maxamize dps. Im Just saying why not make it tick for more to compensate for the solo game. 45sec snare > 33 sec snare. and if it ticked for 500 it would be a more reliable spell. Its base already doesnt tick fast and It would provide more damage but just over a longer period of time </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EX) cast Frigid WInds on named first and spam AE spells doing the most possible damage to the encounter just like you cast your Pyromancy on the highest hitpoint mob because the mob that dies the slowest(has the most hitpoints) and Is debuffed the most will result in max damage output of the class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I see it as a utility spell in which aa's alter it to produce more dps faster but the downside is it reduces the duration of the utility factor of the spell. Calicify AA reduced cast timer doesnt reduce the duration of the stun.*I know its a DD spell but this is in context to reducing effectiveness of utility spells.*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you can see that point</DIV>

[Squall Leonhea]

After I got unabate and bubble I'm going to put 3 in enhance fire pet and than 5 in pyromancy. 5 sec more duration (if you time the AEs 35sec is lower than a lot of the AE timers) but manly because cast time reduction from 3 to 2 sec , another snapping <span>:smileywink:</span>.<div></div>

[Jinry]

<div></div><div></div>I agree with BanditMan, FW gives a very interresting boost DPS. But I don't inderstand so why put 5 points Shattered Terrain because it juts reduce the cast time and 3 points in it is enough for me (considering the recast time). Yet, for Deluge, I put 5 points because the short recast made it more interesting. I think the the best Evocation choice is:5 in Mandibules, 5 in Fiery Annihilation, 5 in Deluge, 3 in Shatterd Terrain and 5 in FW.One thing more. When U watch the Enhanced Fire pet effect, it is written that it redecuces the cast time. Yet I didn't see no difference. Is it a bug or a wrong translation ? (i'm french)You said too that the Enhanced Fire Pet is useless for DPS according to taken Wisdom branch in KoS. Yet, I saw the best DPS raider choice is Streng for critical and Int for haste of fire pet am I wrong ? And in this case, maybe it can be usefull to enhance the fire no ?For a raider, why increase Geotic Seal ? I'm never (or once) in a MT group, so I dont' understand why to increase it. Maybe MEber Seed or Elemental Vestment more usefull not ?<div></div><p><span class="time_text">One question for a friend which is more soloting than me, is a true interest in increase the earth pet or not ? Some people are saying that it doesn't work...</span></p><p>Message Edited by Jinryon on <span class=date_text>01-19-2007</span> <span class=time_text>11:05 AM</span>

[Lader]

<P>even with the long recast timer, i took the 5 in shattered terrain because the extra second i have not casting that i can use casting snapping. When im using snapping, id rather be getting off every cast possible than spending time casting. </P> <P>the fire pets description in enhance: fire doesnt say anything about reducing the casting time. i believe it was that way in beta but it changed, now its just a resist increase. enhance: summonings (off the enhance:tank) reduces the casting time for pets by 3 seconds if maxxed).</P> <P>perhaps geotic seal isnt the most useful for the raid situation, but imo id rather have it than ember seed or pyreshield upgrade and its required if you want essence and more desirable over the heal cast time reduction imo. Id rather get my blazing avatar upgrade through geotic seal and scintilla than in pet heal.</P>

[Banditman]

<div></div>Exactly right.  The 1.5 seconds you save with the cast time on Shattered Terrain becomes another cast and recovery from Snapping Mandibles.  In and of itself, the increase in DPS to ST isn't really all that great, but because you can then slide in more casts of SM you do in effect increase the total damage of ST by about 1000.  At least, that's what my SM Ad3 averages.Total power cost of Frigid Winds in all cases is 714.  If you have enough power proc gear it's probably not an issue.Look into:GoGScintillating Focus of the MagiNecromantic Orb of the Death Reveler<div></div><p>Message Edited by Banditman on <span class=date_text>01-19-2007</span> <span class=time_text>04:10 PM</span>

[wen23]

I just wanted to ask, banditman especially how you are getting so much damage from your spells. I am wondering if there is something that I'm missing with my own. I have Master Is of both SM and FW. My average for SM is around 700 and 170 each time for FW.My int is 610 which I don't think is bad, though I don't have the cloak of Ro. How are you able to get these spells to do so much damage?

[Lader]

high int, debuffs, and adornments/gear with symmetry

[Banditman]

No Symetry gear on me, but I do have a number of adornments that add to spell damage.The cloak from Sol Ro is +65 to all damage.  I have a +25 to all damage on my hands.  I have a +45 to Magic damage on my secondary.  I have a +45 to cold damage on my ranged.Never underestimate the power of a good debuff.  When raiding, man, if you mix your classes up right you can REALLY change the damage output of EVERYONE's spells through proper debuffing.  I mean come on, a tick of 488 on Frigid Winds?!?!  That's ridiculous!  Yea, it was probably a crit, and probably only one or two ticks during a Dispatch, but still!Finally, yes, high INT score.  In a raid I'm typically around 800 INT.  Grouped with a Fury and Coercer, I once made it to 970 INT.<div></div>