Wizard v. Conjurer

[resipsaloq]

<div>Hey all, so I am brand new to EQ2 and have a hard time deciding what I want to play.  I am leaning towards a mage group of classes, however, I am having hard time deciding between a conjurer and a wizard.  What would you suggest and why?</div><div> </div><div>As a total aside, what about troubadours/dirges?</div>

[Shint]

<div>Wizards deal in direct damage nukes. They deal out fast high damage.</div><div> </div><div>Conjurors deal mostly in damage over time (DOT) plus their pets.</div><div> </div><div>Both classes use mostly magic, fire and cold based damage spells.</div><div> </div><div>Their opposites (Necromancer and Warlock) use disease based damage but are similar in other respects. Exceopt Necros can only be evil <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>Troubadors are good at buffing team members, Dirges are good at debuffing mobs. Thats the primary difference for those two.</div><div> </div><div>Welcome to EQ2!</div>

[Poochymama]

<div></div><p>Actually Wizards have more DOTs then Conjurors do.</p><p>But, to answer the question</p><p>Conjuror has alot more burst DPS, and 10-20% more sustained DPS.</p><p>Conjuror has much better utility</p><p>Conjurors also have better defense since they can use pets.</p>

[Antai]

Wizards do their damage directly with high damage spells. Conjuror do their main damage with pets (one is static, one has to be summoned for each fight). Pets can be looked as a kind of damage over time (dot) . So wizards are the masters of burst dps which especially shines on short fights. Conjuror's dps seems to me to be more impressive on longer fights because you need time to get the second pet going etc.From what SOE repeatedly stated wizards belong next to warlocks, assassins and ranger to the top tier of dps classes and next to their heat/cold buffs and some mana feeding they only bring evac to a group and that rather late in their life. On the other hand many parses show that wizards are not doing the damage they should be doing at the moment while Conjurors do quite a lot, but I wouldnt bet on it to stay like that.<div></div>

[Xalmat]

Wizards are only doing damage while they are actively casting <i>and</i> while they have mana. Conjurors do continuous damage over time via their pets, even when they themselves are out of mana. Conjurors are also all about lots of little damage over a long time, while Wizards are about doing lots of damage in a short time. Once a wizard blows all his high recast abilities, he really doesn't stand up damage-wise. On the other hand it takes a good 30-45 seconds before a Conjuror can hit full damage output.

[The Ban]

<div></div><p>Well I play both a Wizard and a Conjuror so I have a good sense of the strenghts and weaknesses of the class.</p><p>The Conjuror has higher burst DPS then the Wizard since he has buffs like BP, and EV combined with 1-2 second cast times.</p><p>The Wizard doesn't have near the burst DPS of the Conjuror with his 3-5 second cast times, but he can almost catch up to the Conjurors DPS in longer fights. However in very very long fights the Conjuror gets way ahead again since the Wizard runs out of power.</p>

[Antai]

I am not sure I understand on what you base your claim, that Conjuror are better in burst dps in comparison to Wizards. As I have a wiz at lvl 60 and my Conjuror is only lvl 30 maybe I miss something.At lvl 60 a wiz can cast (numbers as I recall them)Ice Flame - 2 sec - ca. 900 dmgSunstrike - 2sec - ca. 800-1000 dmgIncapacitate - 2sec - ca. 1500-2000 dmg<a target="_blank" href="http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/abilities/BallofIncineration.php"><b></b></a>Ball of Incineration - 3 sec - ca. 1500-2500 dmgIce Comet - 4 sec - ca. 3000 - 5000 dmgHow would a Conjuror be able to deal more damage faster? Most dd does considerably less damage, doesn't it? Sending in your pet and casting  Aqueous Swarm costs at least 2 secs. So to me it looks like a wiz is the master of burst dps but because of the long recast timer on IC dmg goes down a bit after your first round of spells.With resistance on raid mobs and no way to deal dmg except by spells wizzies are much more limited in their ways to deal damage, but thats another story.<div></div>

[Janl]

I think his entire basis for burst DPS is centered on scout pet buffed with Blazing Presence.  That's not THAT much burst DPS compared to a sorc.<div></div>

[The Ban]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Antaios wrote:I am not sure I understand on what you base your claim, that Conjuror are better in burst dps in comparison to Wizards. As I have a wiz at lvl 60 and my Conjuror is only lvl 30 maybe I miss something.At lvl 60 a wiz can cast (numbers as I recall them)Ice Flame - 2 sec - ca. 900 dmgSunstrike - 2sec - ca. 800-1000 dmgIncapacitate - 2sec - ca. 1500-2000 dmg<a target="_blank" href="http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/abilities/BallofIncineration.php"><b></b></a>Ball of Incineration - 3 sec - ca. 1500-2500 dmgIce Comet - 4 sec - ca. 3000 - 5000 dmgHow would a Conjuror be able to deal more damage faster? Most dd does considerably less damage, doesn't it? Sending in your pet and casting  Aqueous Swarm costs at least 2 secs. So to me it looks like a wiz is the master of burst dps but because of the long recast timer on IC dmg goes down a bit after your first round of spells.With resistance on raid mobs and no way to deal dmg except by spells wizzies are much more limited in their ways to deal damage, but thats another story.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Well thats a total of 14 seconds. In that time the Conjuror could use</p><p>BP - 2000 DMG</p><p>EV - 2000 DMG</p><p>Fish (2s)  - 2600 (assuming 74 DPS each which is about average)</p><p>Flameshield - 120 DMG</p><p>Blazing Seed - 500 DMG</p><p>SL (2s) - 1900 DMG</p><p>ST (2s) - 1300 DMG</p><p>Calcify (3s) - 500 DMG</p><p>SM (2s) - 450 DMG</p><p>Pyrotechnic (3s) - 1300 DMG (assuming 150 DPS)</p><p>Fire Pet - 4200 DMG (assuming 300 DPS)</p><p> </p><p>Total = 16,800 DMG</p><p>Alot of these skills have 45 second recast times so they aren't able to use them every fight. Also not all encounters are single target.</p><p>On AOE encounters Conjurors can destroy Wizards and even Warlocks if they are good with 10-12k DPS.</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Xalmat]

Well, after doublechecking your math, you're right. But again, Wizards are all about big booms, and once their big booms are blown they have nothing to offer. Meanwhile Conjurors do LOTS AND LOTS of little damage over time, and with the ability to stack lots and lots of buffs, DoT, procs, and our pet, we do an insane amount of damage.

[Eyes_of_Truth]

<div>Having played Warlock (level51) and conj (43), i think sorcerors really need faster casting times.</div><div> </div><div>Waiting 3 seconds for 1 nuke is  a little harsh.</div><div> </div><div>I would suggest taking the Ball of / Distortion lines to a 2 second casting time, the single target small dd to a 1.5 casting time, and basically lower all of the AOE attacks's casting times by a second each.</div><div> </div><div>Nothing like waiting 4 seconds to get off an AOE attack (Absolution spell line) only to find that your target has died, thus waisitng that 4 seconds.</div><div> </div><div>To me this hinders sorceror dps more than anything else, these long casting times...</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Shina]

<div></div><div></div><div>hey can anyone tell this some of my friends? always joking on my class and telling me i'm no dd...</div><div>and sometimes i'm really sick of being told "hey i asked for a dd for my group... and not a conjuror"</div><div>why the hell do i always have to tell them every single spell i have and how much damage i deal when i add everything?</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>p.s.: the most effective way to show all those thick ppl what a conjuror can do is pvp... and thats quicker than writing down all my spells... just show them how destructive you can be... harhar</div><div>("what the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]...???" <- paladin laying in the dust after a few seconds... "holy [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] i even can't heal..." <- paladin after his fourth try to be victorious...)</div><div>oh and so far i haven't found a wizard who wanted to duel me... ("are you silly? your pet interrupts me and you deal enough damage to kill me in a few seconds...&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><p>Message Edited by Shinaya on <span class="date_text">02-12-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:49 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Shinaya on <span class="date_text">02-12-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:51 AM</span></p>

[Xalmat]

Start parsing your damage and read the total damage you and your pets do after every fight. Be sure to combine your and your pet's damage. They'll quickly think differently.Technically, the proper terminology is a DPS class (DPS meaning damage per second, the most practical measurement of damage output over time). Classes fall into three general categories: tank class (Fighters), healer class (Priest), and DPS/damage class (Scouts and Mages).

[Razorbak]

<div></div><p>Hehehe, was just reading another post in another section about raids and for some reason, conjurers were listed at the top of the dogpile for DPS.</p><p>Go conjurer.  You can solo 100x better then a wizard and in a team, you will easily keep up the dps with the best of most any class.  Sure, the wizard has really BIG nukes, but while the wizard is fizzling and getting resisted, your main pet is hammering away and the 2 dumbfire pets you get are also hammering away.  Not to mention you are nuking and doting the mob also.  Talk about multi tasking.</p>

[Janl]

Take your class trolling elsewhere please.  I'm not going to say that wizards don't have problems, because honestly, I don't know.  But unless Conjurors get some sort of secret ability that nobody has told me about we would get the same fizzles and resists that a Wizard would.  Yes our pets may be up, but both our DPS pets main damage comes from elemental based attacks.  They're going to be getting the same damage degredation as you are.Thank you.  Please drive through.<div></div>

[Nanite]

<div>Right now, Conjuror's are definately the better choice I think. Wizards have a number of issues. For one thing, their roots are really kind of iffy, they don't work near as well as they should. Conjuror roots don't work very well either, but root is a secondary strategy for us, for a wizzy it's their life, as they have no pet to fall back on. Root break = dead wizard a lot of the time on any mob worth killing. Wizards should be out dpsing us by quiite a bit as they have a higher risk than we do (No pet to take damage for them), but they really don't out dps us after level 50. Before that, maybe, but especially with blazing presence, etc, the dps gap closes pretty quick. Of course by the time you hit 50, wizzies will probably get a boost and conj's will probably get a nerf, but that's life <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</div>

[Shina]

<div>why is it so important for everyone whose dps is higher than someone elses'?? dead mob is dead mob (solo as well as raid)</div><div> </div><div>oh and back to the difference: wizards need to kill fast, while we can take our time because of our pets (nice for chatting while leveling *smile*)... thats the main difference, isn't it?</div>

[BtilTheMage]

<div>"why is it so important for everyone whose dps is higher than someone elses'?? dead mob is dead mob (solo as well as raid)"</div><div> </div><div><font color="#cc0033">Because the people who rolled Wizards/Warlocks are getting cheated out of what they were told their job would be?  There's no way Summoner damage is where it's supposed to be right now. It's way too hgh. The damage tiers are completely wrong and need to be reworked to get people where they are intended to be.  That is with Summoners in tier 2 and Sorcerers in tier 1.</font></div>

[Eyes_of_Truth]

<div>As i said, having played conj and warlock, i do not belive that conjuror's in their current state are overpowered, but i belive that the casting times of sorcerors need to shave off about a second on almost all of their spells, and the min to max damage needs to be MUCH less, that is where we really tend to fall behind, is when my adept3 Nil Distortion (i think it's nil...the leve 51 one lol) does 800 where as it could have done say 1900.... when that happens it just really kills the dps. Of course, now that my warlock is 52 and has Dark Infestation, if my luck works out, they could do a rather LARGE ammount of damage if they come out on the main target mob while it's little hinchlings are scattering about it, since all 3 broodlings attack anything in their area of effect for about 250 damage every 2 seconds or so, and they last for 30 seconds i belive...</div><div> </div><div>Anyway, no, summoners are not overpowered, but sorcerors are in need of some changes...</div><div> </div><div>(surprized noone has mentioned rangers yet :smileysurprised: )</div><div> </div><div>PS: dont try to take down rangers either, i got a level 35 ranger = P</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[BtilTheMage]

<div>"surprized noone has mentioned rangers yet"</div><div> </div><div><font color="#cc0033">Rangers are at least <em>supposed</em> to be tier 1 damage.  Summoners are supposed to be tier 2 and are capable of rivaling them, making them much more worthy of being complained about.  Summoners should <em>never</em> be able to conistantly go shoulder to shoulder with a Predator or Warlock.  If they were meant to they might as well be put into tier 1.  As it stands now, the damage tiers are completely wrong.  SOE really needs to put people back into their respective positions.</font></div>

[Lemam]

<div></div>I have been on many raids parsed out with numbers thrown into the mix and with us doing everything we can Rangers own all other classes. Even my conjurer who always placed in the top 6 never beat the rangers. Wizards need a skilol review big time. Huge nukes that take a month to recast are worthless. Wizards should be higher in the DPS chain than conjurer's IMO. Conjurers have mitigation buffs and pets to solo with. They should not be in the top bracket for damage in any fight. THis is my opinion and I play a conjurer and hate all wizard sand will /duel you all!

[Albrig]

"Meanwhile Conjurors do LOTS AND LOTS of little damage over time, and with the ability to stack lots and lots of buffs, DoT, procs, and our pet, we do an insane amount of damage."The class being described here is not a Conjuror. It is a Group of 4 people who wish they WERE a Conjuror.Xalmat seems to talk about the Conjuror in a way that constitutes a completely broken way of adminstering the over-use and over-worked class that the Conjuror is.Thank god the pets are mostly crap to look at is all I can sum up of it.SoE are just fed-up with the design of class than the designs set on the pet.<div></div>

[Xalmat]

<blockquote><hr>Albright wrote:The class being described here is not a Conjuror. It is a Group of 4 people who wish they WERE a Conjuror.Xalmat seems to talk about the Conjuror in a way that constitutes a completely broken way of adminstering the over-use and over-worked class that the Conjuror is.<hr></blockquote>Care to prove me wrong? How come parse-after-parse-after-parse-after-parse almost always shows Conjurors and Necromancers at the top of the dogpile for damage?

[bettertryit]

Go with Conjuror. My main char is a Conjuror. Early on I was soloing a lot and having that earth pet was really nice. Seism at level 16 is a spell that will do massive damage to all targets in an area and there are lots of opportunities to use it in Antonica without getting aggro from outside the encounter.As a solo class I feel the conjuror is awesome, but to reach my full potentional and really shine... I need to be standing behind a Fighter and next to a Healer. With a group I can bring up my fire pet or air pet, and they are so much better than the earth pet, I can lay into an encounter with almost everything I have and cause massive amounts of destruction in a group.I did play a warlock for a while and abandoned it because ultimiately it just was not a good fit for me. I know another player playing warlock who is awesome and loves her class. As a warlock it seemed like every level I gained, my character became weaker and the spells were difficult for me to understand. As a conjuror the spells were easy to understand and when a new spell showed up I already had a good idea how to use it with other spells. I know a few people who like wizzard class, the evac must be nice, but I have Call of the Hero.Here are some things I love about my conjuror:1. Fire pet is good for encounter based damage2. Air pet does lots of single target damage3. Blazing presence makes chunks of the mobs health bar go away4. Frigid winds makes a mob go really slowly toward you or pet as damage is ticking off on it. Does not seem to break.5. Seism (and upgrades) does 1000 points of damage to every single creature in the area and knocks them over all at once.6. Damage over time with pacify encounter for the whole encounter.7. If I want to leave a raid... I can summon my replacement.Here are some things I don't like:1. Everyone thinks I am a solo class, less expereinced fighters feel threatened by my pet.2. Earth pet3. I get a lot of flack in raids abuot 'breaking mezz' some true and some uninformed.I would say play both for a while and see which one you like most. If you just want someone to tell you what to do... go with Conjuror. Conjurors are awesome, Wizzard have two occurences of the letter 'z' in thier class name and that is the last letter of the alphabet.Good luck and have fun.<div></div>