From test update 19a

[wullailhuit]

Looks like our dumbfire pets have just been wiped out from being useful in raids.- Dumbfire pets will now receive damage from AoEs that do not explicitly target them.<div></div>

[soulrais]

<div>they taking this out so they can make it an AA with KoS didnt u know :smileyvery-happy:</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>jk )</div>

[Beoman]

<div></div><p>If they are going to make it a AA point thing, then i sirtenly hope they will give us a propper water pet finaly. Insted of a dott.</p><p>Hmmm what can they then change those to spells to????</p>

[Wil]

didn't they fix this a while ago now only to change it back the way it was....  guess they are just too uber with all that dps they do.... pffft<div></div>

[Geothe]

<div></div>yuck

[Aera]

I wasn't aware that the new character advancement system in KoS had to be AA's?  I'll be ticked if it even reminds me of the EQ Live AA system.  Ugh.  Please don't dig yourself an early grave, SOE.<div></div>

[Loral]

<div></div>Very little is known publicly at this point. It is only shared that it is not something as game-breaking as EQ1 AA system was. I am still waiting eagerly to what they have in mind.

[Gaylon]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>soulraiser wrote:<div>they taking this out so they can make it an AA with KoS didnt u know :smileyvery-happy:</div><div><hr></div><div> </div><div>Grrrr!!!! When they pulled that kinda stuff in EQ for the bard class AND required all these wasted AA be bought before you could do something that you had been doing before. Stuff like that made me move on from EQ. I hope your joke does not come true.</div><div> </div><div>Dragonsfire</div></blockquote>

[Elik]

<div></div><div>The dumbfires are actually nothing more than a good DOT with some nice graphics attached to them, so why not make all classes DOT's break on AOE? :smileyindifferent: Guess thats one idea that would make the community go,, Yay!! :smileytongue:</div>

[XtremSummo]

<div>That is very yucky indeed.</div><div> </div><div>As has been pointed out elsewhere, Raids where AoEs are most likely to cause problems are also the places where immunities already reduce our damage capability significantly. This change would eat further away at our raid contribution which would certainly be a bad thing.</div><div> </div><div>Perhaps if 19a also included a fix to the Air pet so that it could switch between slashing and piercing again, it would be reaonsable... but it's an unnecessary and yucky change.</div><div> </div><div>I hope it doesn't reach live in its present state.</div><div> </div><div>X</div>

[Geothe]

<div></div><p>Let our swarm pets be affected by buffs now if they decide to keep this in.</p><p>Sony wants to treat them as actual Pets instead of an Animated DOT, then follow through entirely, and let them get buffs like Pets as well.</p>

[Gyukst]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Geothe wrote:<div></div><p>Let our swarm pets be affected by buffs now if they decide to keep this in.</p><p>Sony wants to treat them as actual Pets instead of an Animated DOT, then follow through entirely, and let them get buffs like Pets as well.</p><hr></blockquote>That is the smartest thing I have read in this forum in a long time

[Eyes_of_Truth]

<div></div><div>Mmmmm cant wait till we get 5 summoners and a dirge in a group.</div><div>Thats 25 pets + a possible 5 charmed undead mobs if  the 5 summoners are necromancers, and if they all use scout pets, and the dirge buffs their offense and uses CoB (procs damage and interupts on EVERY melee hit)... Not to mention elemental vestment/consumption/Radience ect buffs for pets that proc....</div><div> </div><div>SOE is gona just have to switch it back to dumbfire pets being immune to aoes.</div><div> </div><div>No matter what though, the pets can NOT be subjegated to any and all mob AOE attacks and not be allowed our group buffs/heals. Thats a double standered that will not be tollerated by the player base: Pets are either with us or not assosiated with us.</div><div> </div><div>Two logical options:</div><div> </div><div>If pet = Possitive for foe AOE negative effects, then pet = Possitive for ally AOE possitive effects</div><div>(no exceptions, if we get exception on some beneficial effects then we get exceptions on some negative effects)</div><div> </div><div>- or -</div><div> </div><div>If pet = Negative for ally AOE possitive effects, then pet = Negative for foe AOE negative effects</div><div> </div><div>- but never -</div><div> </div><div>If pet = Possitive for foe AOE negative effect, but pet = Negative for ally AOE Possitive effects = Game/logic imbalance and a unhappy player base.</div>

[Ba]

<div></div><p>Elikai,</p><p>Yes I see your point, however these are very mana efficient and very powerful DoTs we are talking about that do not suffer from stacking issues, use a physical melee attack type instead of disease/poison (well the dogs do anyway) and do not have a fixed amount of dmg (theyre only limitations are their duration, the fact they can miss/be avoided/mitigated/riposted and if the mob is immune/resistant to their damage type)</p><p>Also these dumbfire pets have saved my life on numerous occasions when soloing by gaining aggro once my main pet died and allowing me the extra few seconds to either run away, fear/root/stun or cast a new pet.</p><p>On paper they can be described as a DoT (so can players) but in practise they are very different breed of spell entirely.</p><p>I do not agree with the nerf (which will hit summoners the hardest) but the devs evidently thought it was best to apply this rule to ALL dumbfire pets for all classes. They no doubt have their reasons. I would appreciate it if they would perhaps put more thought into additional types of AoE -- for example EQ1 had "directional" PBAE's (point blank) and "targetted" AE's as well as the "generic" PBAE. These added more strategic postional requirements to raid mobs (ever remember your raid leaders ordering the tank(s) to "corner" a mob and keep aggro and all other melees "stay behind it"? In some cases this wasn't just to minimize "pushing" and maximize rogue damage).</p>

[XtremSummo]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>After thinking about the change a little more, I've altered my view a little.</p><p>The big issue with dumbfire pets dying to AoE damage is at raids where the mobs use 360 degree AoEs. Most of these mobs cycle the AoEs between 30 and 45 seconds. My conjuror dumbfire pets only last 30 (pyrotechnnics) and 45 seconds (Aqueous Swarm), so if I cast them just after an AoE, they will usually still last 2/3 to all of their duration.</p><p>It doesn't seem to me that this is a huge deal.</p><p>For more normal play, it makes sense to turn the mob and put pets behind them so that frontal AoEs are evaded. That's just standard good tactics anyway... again no big deal.</p><p>Used with a bit of care and sense the change shouldn't affect us too much.... except... The only real issues that I have with this change now are:</p><blockquote dir="ltr"><p>1) There's an issue with aggro peaks. When a mob uses an AoE and kills a conjuror's main pet and two dumbfire pets, all the aggro they generated gets transferred to the Conjuror at once. At smaller raid this often means instant death for the conjuror because that much aggro dumped at once is extremely difficult for any tank to counter. If they make dumbfire pets killable by AoEs again, then they need to do something to reduce the aggro or spread the aggro out over a period of time.</p></blockquote><blockquote dir="ltr"><p>2) As was mentioned in the patch note from when they were made immune... their hitpoints had been reduced as a result of that immunity. I'd want to be really sure that their hitpoints had been increased appropriately with that immunity being removed</p></blockquote><p>I honestly don't think that in most situations you'll see much reduction in damage output. It's a matter of timing their casting to an extent - and also of course recasting them. As long as their hitpoints are upgraded again and something is done to reduce the impact of the aggro spikes, it may well end up being a reasonable change.</p><p>X</p><p>Message Edited by XtremSummons on <span class="date_text">01-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:30 AM</span></p>

[Stamm]

Well if they're gonna die so fast.. I think they should make them more powerful as well because they won't last longer then 10 sec <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[SilkenMaid]

<div></div><p>Oh well last time I grouped, I was the only one to get wiped out, tanks ended up in the path of another wandering mob and my pet got wiped, then myself..A least if you are going to nerf our class in anyway at least give our air, fire and earth pets the ability to stay in the game a little longer. Same with necro's..</p><p>The most played class in the game and SOE wants to possibly nerf it..that .makes sense...not...a good way to keep customers..</p><p>Also more casual players play the class, for the solo expereince..thats where the numbers are and the dollars.</p><p><strong><em><font color="#ff99ff">* Silkwind - Runnyeye *</font></em></strong></p>

[GSOO]

<div></div>Well.....that is SoE style. Find a class that can do everything and "adjust" it. The templars had a huge adjustment to it....made them so they can barely kill ^ mobs. So, the main problem I see is that we have to be extra cautious. Not a problem....after all we are an int based class....we might just need to use it during the play time as well. As for the dumbfire pet issue....get to the back of the mob....as in the Sticky notes and let them fly.  We might have been nerfed, but they want to see people work together....and a true solo kick butt class is against that primary goal. Count us as lucky as not being hit hard like the plate healers have.

[Goozman]

<div></div><p>After parsing an entire court of al`afaz raid, i looked at the 2 necros' and 1 conjuror's dumbfire pet damage...</p><p>miss miss miss miss no damage miss miss no damage miss miss miss miss miss miss miss miss no damage miss miss 110 miss miss no damage </p><p>Even if you couldn't use them at all, you aren't losing much :p</p>