How not to break mezzes with AoE in groups

[XtremSummo]

<DIV>Hey all,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We've had a few threads about this of late and I thought I'd pull together some of the information in a separate thread. Let me know if there's errors or additional stuff I should include and I'll update the post.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Conjurors have a series of AoE effects in their toolset:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <DIV>Conjuror has PB-AoE Knockback "nuke".</DIV> <DIV>Conjuror has AoE Stifle/DoT.</DIV> <DIV>Conjuror has AoE Nuke/Slow.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Conjuror's Blazing Seed line will inflict AoE damage if the proc is running on a mob when it dies.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Conjuror's Fire Swarm pet uses an AoE attack.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Earth pet can have AoE Knockback</DIV> <DIV>Earth pet can have AoE Damage (Telluric Roar)</DIV> <DIV>Earth pet has AoE Taunt (not clear if this breaks mez or not).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fire pet can have AoE DoT (Wave of Flames) 4 ticks.</DIV> <DIV>Fire pet can have AoE Nuke (Shocking Flames)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Note: At least Adept 3 pets will have all of these abilities. Lower quality pets may not have all of the abilities mentioned.</EM></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mezzers have two types of mez: AoE and Single Target.</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AoE mezzes will break when you, your Proc line or your pets use AoE effects. If your group/raid is using a strategy based on the AoE mez, then it is important that you avoid using any AoE effects.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Single-Target mezzes will not be broken by AoE effects cast after the mob has been mezzed - however, if you or your fire-pet have a DoT running on a mob and the mob is then mezzed, subsequent ticks on the DoT <EM>will </EM>break the mez.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In general, Mezzing strategy is best when the mezzer uses an AoE mez first, to hold the mobs initially - and then casts individual mezzes on each of the mobs.</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As long as the single target mezzes are in place before you or your pets begin to use their AoE effects you should be OK.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You should not use your AoE Nuke or Stifle/DoT until all the mobs are single mezzed</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Since you cannot control your pets' attacks, you should wait until the mobs are all single-mezzed before using the Earth, Fire or Pyrotechnics pets.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If it is likely that your group will kill a mob before the single target mezzes are complete, you should cancel any Fireseed line buffs running on the tank or on pets that will be attacking (e.g. Air pet).</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>If there are so many mobs that the mezzers cannot reasonably single-mez them all, then you should avoid using all AoE attacks,  pets that use AoE (Fire & Earth) Blazing Seed and Pyrotechnics line.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Air pet without Blazing Seed line running is the best choice. If it is unlikely that you will kill a mob before the others are all single-mezzed, then Blazing Seed line should be OK too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another option is to pull your fighting target a distance away from the mezzed mobs. The encounter AoE range is circa 10m. Once outside that range, you should be able to use all AoE effects without breaking the mez on mobs outside the range.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You should wait until mobs are single-mezzed before using your AoE DoTs and before sending in the Fire pet to attack or your DoTs may break subsequent mezzes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the mezzers are likely to need to refresh their single target mezzes, then you may need to time your AoE activity so that they are not active when refresh needs to happen.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hope that captures some of the information that has been flying around of late. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>X</DIV><p>Message Edited by XtremSummons on <span class=date_text>06-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:10 PM</span>

[Twofeets]

Wow! Excellent post!Any chance of making this a sticky somewhere? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Thankyou!<div></div>

[Blitzrain]

<div></div><div></div>n/m<p>Message Edited by Blitzrain on <span class="date_text">01-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:00 AM</span></p>

[GSOO]

<div></div>Great Post X. As a rule when in a group with crowd control, I try and use the air pet.....I also drop most of my big damage spells and concentrate on just the single effect spells. 

[Raybour]

<div></div><p>Thanks for this post, X.  Don't play with mezzers much, so this will  help alot.  But wasn't there talk somewhere that Adept III L46 Air Pet now has an AoE ability too?  Just wondering if that's so and if it might break mez ever.</p><p>J Wellington Wells</p>

[XtremSummo]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div>From testing so far:</div><div> </div><div>Adept 3 level 46 Air pet has following abilities - all single target:</div><div> </div><blockquote dir="ltr"><div><span><strong>Aery Whip</strong></span> - Initial hit damage + DoT effect  6 ticks at 3 or 4 second delay.<span><strong>Thunderous Attack</strong></span> - Mid damage cold<span><strong>Wisp Blade</strong></span> - High Damage cold<span><strong>Storm Surge</strong></span> - Mid-High damage cold. Storm Surge maintained effect: debuff of mitigation on Crushing, Slashing and Piercing.<span><strong>Fury Storm</strong></span> - Lower damage cold. Looks like being a quadruple hit attack, each hit hitting for the amount given makes this very powerful though.</div></blockquote><div> </div><div>Master 1 level 60 Air pet also has single-target:</div><div> </div><blockquote dir="ltr"><div><strong>Galestorm</strong> - very high damage cold (not very regular)</div></blockquote><div>I suspect that the abilities are added based on upgrade and scale in damage. That way they'd be the same abilities for all air pets, it's your level of upgrade that will define how many abilities your pet has. So Master 1 Level 46 air pet probably gets Galestorm too - I don't have any Master 1 spells though so was unable to test this myself.</div><div> </div><div>X</div><p>Message Edited by XtremSummons on <span class="date_text">01-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:39 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by XtremSummons on <span class="date_text">01-12-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:30 AM</span></p>

[dom4]

I have no idea what it's called, but at lvl 42 the aery pet I've got uses AoE attacks from time to time as well.  Especialy if I tell him to attack a group that's a little ways away.  It seems like with our lack of control over what abilities our pets use, they just don't work well in a group with someone who wants to mez.<div></div>

[XtremSummo]

<div>How are you deciding whether it's an AoE attack?</div><div> </div><div>If you're only looking in the combat damage chat, it's easy to confuse Fury Storm for an AoE attack because it is a quadruple hit (four hits from the same attack come up at once) - but if you're attacking a single target, Fury Storm does the same thing - and if you're attacking a group with the Air pet alone and no help from you, you'll see that the damage numbers floating off the head only come off one target.</div><div> </div><div>Blazing Seed line will also kick off an AoE attack sometimes when a mob in the group dies, which can confuse you too. Don't use Flameshield or Blazing Seed lines while testing as they can confuse matters.</div><div> </div><div>If you do a simple test with the pet of having him kill a weak green encounter without your help - and without the above buffs, then you should see him use the attack by the above signals (damage floating above all mobs in the encounter at once). Then check back in your combat chat to see what the name of the attack was. I'd be very grateful of any new info.</div><div> </div><div>I did test exstensively over a great many fights in controlled conditions with the level 46 Air pet so I'm sure that he doesn't do AoEs. I don't have the time for testing all of the pets right now as I'm deep in exams.</div><div> </div><div>X</div>

[Raybour]

<div></div><div></div><p>Just want to clarify - I have in no way tested or proven or even suspected that air pet is using AoE attacks.  Just remember someone saying something to that effect on these boards.  I trust your testing, X, and suspect that no such AoE attack exists.</p><p>Thanks again for the very helpful post.</p><p>J Wellington Wells</p><p>Message Edited by Raybourne on <span class="date_text">01-11-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:32 PM</span></p>

[XtremSummo]

<DIV>The accuracy of some of the information in the original post here has been called into question. It's possible that some elements have changed since the thread was started. I'd be grateful if people could review the OP and confirm or test the content in order to check whether it's still valid. I'll happily update any changes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>X</DIV>

[XtremSummo]

<P>For reference some of the threads that were going around the time the original post was made including some of the testing that was done:</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=29&message.id=10587&query.id=0#M10587" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=29&message.id=10587&query.id=0#M10587</A></P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=29&message.id=10566&query.id=0#M10566" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=29&message.id=10566&query.id=0#M10566</A></P>

[DobyMT]

Don't quote me exactly on this, but I am almost sure that most Mezzes have a "is not affected by Area of Effect" description on them. I need to ask our coercer. But yeah, I BELIEVE that's the way most mezzes are set up now.

[Pins]

How not to break mezzes with AoEs in groups is simple:Step 1: Set pet on defend.Step 2: Do not send the pet in on a mez'd mob.Step 3: If you're using the mage pet, wait till the mezes are in before sending him in, else he may AoE DoT before the mezes are in and this will break the mez.Step 4: Wait till the mezes are in before using AoE DoTs.Step 5: Don't target the mez'd mob <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Step 6: Smack the enchanter for using mez in the first place inside an encounter, except in a few rare places.

[DobyMT]

Yeah, thats what I was thinking, I'm not sure if my point got across though...very appreciative of the OPs effort....just wanted to make a comment.

[XtremSummo]

<P>Yup, for many situations that basic strategy will work - and is in fact included in the above information. The thread came about as a result of two things though:</P> <P>1) Some groups and raid leaders use mezzing in more complex ways and would often tell people not to do certain things or use certain pets at all, thus making conjurors much less effective. This thread hopes to capture the details of the interactions so that people can make informed decisions and adjust their tactics to the specific situation.</P> <P>2) As Dolby's post in the other thread showed, there is still a lot of misinformation about exactly what the interactions are. Most of the time that won't lead to issues if you stick to certain basic rules - but not always.</P> <P>This thread hopes to capture accurate information in detail so that people can use that to formulate their own strategies and make fewer mistakes when placed in more unusual tactical situations.</P> <P><BR>X</P>

[Jessyme]

<P>Thank you for udpating this post and bringing it back.  </P> <P>I am one of those raiding conjurors who has been told "No AoE pets" in raids because they break mez.  I use the air pet exclusively, unless I need the tank pet for a pet pull.  </P> <P>As a result, this upcoming nerf to the air pet is going to hit me especially hard.  I sincerely hope that the "pet AoE's not breaking mez unless mob is targetted" bit is true and that the fire pet will become a viable option to use in raids again.  </P> <P>Xyladosia</P> <P>Lost Coast Privateers, Lucan D'Lere</P>

[DobyMT]

aITEM 372472646 1383701047:Empty Mind (Master I)/aaITEM -395784936 -2095538181:Abduct Mind (Master I)/aSorry, all I have is the database atm, copy these and link them in game and it will be the link of the spell.My question is this : its says that while mezzed, target is immune to AoE unless directed....however, the next line says will break if target is damaged....I'm ASSUMING that means Directed damage, seeing as the mob is immune to AoE when these mezzes are placed in effect.I'm not positive though, so any input from someone who can test this or knows how to would be appreciated.Lao

[Pins]

<DIV>As I said, don't target the mez'd mob, and you will not break the mez if the enchanter is using a single target mez and you do not have an encounter dot on the mob already.</DIV>

[XtremSummo]

<P><A href="http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/abilities/DreadfulAwe.php" target=_blank>http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/abilities/DreadfulAwe.php</A></P> <P>AoE mez not showing any immunity in description.</P> <P><A href="http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/abilities/Enthrall.php" target=_blank>http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/abilities/Enthrall.php</A></P> <P>Single target mez showing immunity to AoE.</P> <P>AoE mez is not immune to AoE attacks as quoted in OP.</P> <P>I did testing tat time of OP to show that single target mez was broken by PB-AoE attacks but not by Encounter AoE attacks. If you believe that PB-AoE will not break a single target mez - do the testing and quote the details here for reproduction. Completed testing so far shows th OP info to be correct.</P> <P>X</P>

[DobyMT]

Gotcha, and I misread, the OP is in fact right =) Nice to get that clarified...

[Renvhoek]

<div><blockquote><hr>XtremSummons wrote:<div></div> <p><a href="http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/abilities/DreadfulAwe.php" target="_blank">http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/abilities/DreadfulAwe.php</a></p> <p>AoE mez not showing any immunity in description.</p> <p><a href="http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/abilities/Enthrall.php" target="_blank">http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/abilities/Enthrall.php</a></p> <p>Single target mez showing immunity to AoE.</p> <p>AoE mez is not immune to AoE attacks as quoted in OP.</p> <p>I did testing tat time of OP to show that single target mez was broken by PB-AoE attacks but not by Encounter AoE attacks. If you believe that PB-AoE will not break a single target mez - do the testing and quote the details here for reproduction. Completed testing so far shows th OP info to be correct.</p> <p>X</p><hr></blockquote>maybe has to do with something else but, i can always use seismic tremor and will not break single target mez's. however, my pyromancy pet always seems to break single target mez's. </div>

[Renvhoek]

tested again, neither seismic tremor or my pyromancy is breaking single target mez, does it matter if it's a bard mez?<div></div>

[XtremSummo]

<DIV>Thanks for that I'll update the post. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>X</DIV>