Frustrated Conjuror In Need of Advice

[Dakar]

<div>I am utterky frustrated here folks and I am hoping some kind sole out there might be able to offer some advice.</div><div> </div><div>My Conjuror is as we should be a soloing machince that knows no fear. But the problem comes when its grouping time.</div><div> </div><div>As we know a Conjuror's power is in his AOE's, we also know we can do some serious Damage in a hurry. And yes we have to know how to use them and at what range we can use an not agro unwanted mobs.</div><div> </div><div>But every time I group up with Guildies or other players the first thing they tell ya is NO AOE's. Which means 80% of my spells and a couple of my pets are now usless.  Most group want to rely solely on a Mezzer to get things done. I willgive an example of a group the other night it may help you understand my frustration and how to answer me if possible.</div><div> </div><div>The other night in group I was told not to use AOE's or AOE Pets, So I pull out my Air Pet. Off we went to the dungeon. one fight in particular really unset me alot. Again they said no AoE's as we enter this room. Tank first followed by the Mezzer. Now the tank started the fight, he screwed up and got 7 mobs instead of 3. The mezzer went about trying to mezz the mobs but was running in circle more than Mezzing then. I sent my pet in only after the tank had Agro, and proceeded to find the safest spot in the room I could. The Mezzer could not keep up and as a group we were getting pounded badly. Our Healer went down followed by the Mezzer. And we still had 5 mobs left. I instantly went into solo mode, Cast Shards of Ice followed by Shatterd Ground, killing 2 of the remaining mobs, The cast tremor killing one more. I rooted one of the 2 remaining mobs, as our Fury went to meet his maker. I set my pet on that mob and kept the other rooted, shortly it was dead leaving me only one to kill. I made that kill only after casting a new pet. I was pretty happy with myself.</div><div> </div><div>Returning to the same room for a second run at it, the Tank did the same thing. I cast Shards of Ice ( AOE ) slowing all the mobs in the room less one who I sent my pet after. This gave the mezzer time to do his thing. I re-called my pet and sent him to assist the Tank. And the fight went well from there. When it was over with the group turn and chewed my butt up one side and down the other. Cuz I use an AOE to slow the mobs.</div><div> </div><div>What in the hell did I do wrong. I just don't get it.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Goozman]

<div></div><p>This is gonna sound abrupt and rude...</p><p>Your tank sucks. Whoever is leading your group sucks. Your tank needs to learn how to proxy pull, and mez is never necessary in a good group. If they are telling you to not ae, then you should be telling them to find someone else, because that's pretty stupid :smileyindifferent: Sounds like yur playing really well and should find some brighter people to group with lol</p>

[Xalmat]

What Goozman said. Unless you get a lot of out-of-encounter adds, mez is NEVER necessary. On top of that, AoEs are, by far, a Conjuror's strongest point. If your groups are telling you to stop AEing in general, it's time to get another group.

[XtremSummo]

<div></div><div>What you did wrong was not to discuss it with the group. If the group has made a plan of attack (no AoE) to which you have agreed (even mutely) - then when you decide to change the tactics you need to discuss it with them. Before going in the second time, you should have suggested to them that if the tank pulls a lot again, you can slow them with your AoE nuke giving the mezzer more time to get his mezzes sorted. If they agree, then you do it. If you can't get them to agree then you need to follow agreed tactics... even if you're pretty sure that they aren't the best ones.</div><div> </div><div>Group play in tougher situations needs to follow a strategy. Other players in the group will adapt their play to that strategy and if one player in the group doesn't follow the strategy then that can cause issues, so it's important that everybody follow the same geamplan.</div><div> </div><div>For the more general case, where you find that guild groups often call for no AoEs... well you have to start educating them. The mezzer really shouldn't be a factor with one proviso: at the moment it seems that sometimes the Flame swarm pet will break mezzes so you shouldn't use that. The other AoE effects shouldn't break the mezzes anyway as the mezzes should be immune to AoE effects. You need to be careful when using your PB-AoE of course, that you're not pulling extra encounters into the group. But all in all, there should be little reason not to use your AoE attacks during combat.</div><div> </div><div>As others have pointed out - mezzing really shouldn't be necessary if you have a good tank and a good puller - but if you don't, then mezzing may be a strategy that the group will want to follow anyway. You need to persuade the group of that before agreeing the game-plan though - or stick to the plan. Your job is to inform those that you're likely to group with and explain that AoE shouldn't make a difference and Mez may not be necessary. Listen to their counter-arguments and address them. There are other valid reasons why groups may prefer not to be using AoEs. For example, if the tank isn't particularly strong or has weak AoE taunts, then they may prefer that you stick to single-target so that the tank can manage the aggro.</div><div> </div><div>When push comes to shove, if the group knows that your DPS is reduced by a choice of strategy and still wants to go ahead with it, then they've made the choice and you should stick with it too. That's part of group play after all.</div><div> </div><div>X</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by XtremSummons on <span class="date_text">01-08-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:47 AM</span></p>

[Dakar]

<div></div>Thanks for the input.

[Magu]

Let's not forget the single largest point that makes your tank/mezzer ignorant: Single target mez STOPS AOE SPELLS. I mean come on, it's right there in the spell description.If something is mezzed, as long as you don't target it directly, Shattered Ground and other encounter-only AEs will NOT break mez.I don't think this counts with the Seism (out of encounter) line, but the other two are definitely NOT mez-breakers.<div></div>

[Valam]

<div></div><p>mezzing and killing enemys 1 by 1 is a good strategy, someone prefer to simply aoe nuke, someone prefer to mez even in encounter mobs... both are good and both have pro and cons...</p><p>as the poster above said you can use encounter aoe (green background) with mezzed mobs whitout fearing to break the mez</p><p>the problem comes with pbaoe (blue packground) and sometimes with dots</p><p>for aoe dots (shattered ground line) you have to be sure to cast it after the mobs are mezzed, in fact if you cast it before the mez the damage tick if your dot is going to break the mezz</p><p>consider that pets can have aoe dot attacks so you have to be carefull and send them in combat after the mobs are mezzed</p><p>here some advice</p><p>- always assist the MT or MA</p><p>- begin to cast AOE spells (with green background) after the mobs are mezzed</p><p>- send your pet in combat after the mobs are mezzed</p><p>- never cast PBAOE spells (blue background)</p><p> </p><p>if you still have problems breaking mezzes ask to your mezzer to give the engage and disengage, he have simply to tell when is safe to attack after he mezzed mobs and when you have to stop using AOE and call back pet when mezz is about to wear off and have to recast it</p>

[Xalmat]

<blockquote><hr>Valamir wrote:<div></div><p>mezzing and killing enemys 1 by 1 is a good strategy</p><hr></blockquote>However, AEing gets things dead about three times as fast, and therefore leaves you <i>far</i> more open to surprises, adds, and changing conditions than 1 by 1 killing.

[Valam]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Xalmat wrote:<blockquote><hr>Valamir wrote:<div></div><p>mezzing and killing enemys 1 by 1 is a good strategy</p><hr></blockquote>However, AEing gets things dead about three times as fast, and therefore leaves you <i>far</i> more open to surprises, adds, and changing conditions than 1 by 1 killing.<hr></blockquote><p>but many times it ends up with mobs running everywhere and to get an add in such situation is really bad...</p><p>it also really depends by group and mobs they are fighting... if they fight mobs orange to the tank, or tank is so and so in aoe taunts (as a brawlers) or simply most of the group is made of single target DPS then such strategy is very profitable.</p><p>and finally (put on the tank jacket <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) a group generally run well if the tank (or group leader) is in control, if he decide to use a strategy over another then group members have to adapt to it... ther's nothing worse than a group that panic with a tank that don't know what to do and healers who don't know who they have to heal</p>

[XtremSummo]

<div></div><p>Yup, it may be rarely <em>necessary</em> to mez - but some groups may <em>prefer</em> to go that route for various reasons and certain content. It may be that a more relaxed and easy pace of play is enjoyable for those in the group - not everybody plays to kill stuff as quickly as possible all the time.</p><p>If the XP is so slow because of mezzing tactics, that you don't want to continue - then suggest trying another way or leave the group... but always keep in mind that different people like different things and have different ways of doing things. When groups come together, finding the best way for the group as a whole is part of the pleasure in grouping itself.</p><p>X</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Blitzrain]

<div></div><p>Time to find a new guild.  Seriously...</p><p>There are very few situations in a single group setting where mezzing is necessary.  Those situations (when heroic encounters add, even then it's often not necessary), none of your spells other than the Seism line will break the mez as long as you properly assist.  So basically...there is no situation (other than avoiding aggro) you should not be casting the heck out of the shattered line, shards line, and using all your pets to their fullest extent.  If your group or guild refuse to understand this, you really need to look elsewhere in order to maximize both your character's effectiveness and your own personal enjoyment of the game. </p><p>This sort of vendetta against AEs was prevalent the first few months of release (EQ1 mindset), but there is no excuse for people to still be thinking and playing this way.</p>

[StaticLex]

<div>By no AEs I am assuming your group meant don't use any true AEs.  The encounter only AEs are perfectly fine.  If your group doesn't even want you using encounter only AEs then they are morons.</div>

[Inuki1]

<div></div><p>Instead of mezzing groups of mobs, that mezzer should be AE nuking in conjunction with you, the tank, and whatever AE abilities the scout has to make the mobs dead 10x faster than mezzing and killing one by one.  The mezzing, 1on 1 train of thought is a dinosaur way of play from EQ1 when the holy trinity existed.  As stated, mezzing shouldn't be used except for adds from <em>other </em>encounters.</p><p>In a multi-mob group, the mobs are always either even, or one or more down arrows.  The tank, if he's doing his job well and has his taunts upgraded properly, should have no problem holding the aggro for the 6-8 seconds it takes to burn groups down. </p><p>I would be pulling my hair out from the tediousness and boredom of that group.  That's the reason I rarely group anymore.  If it's a guild group, they need to be educated.  There's no time like the present. </p>

[shenker]

<div></div>If your group is going to be using mes then keep in mind that on a group of more than 2 or 3 it's easiest to use the group mes which does not remove the mobs from getting hit by an ae then use single target meses as the timers come up on them. If group mes is not being used then you should have nothing to worry about since the single target ones remove them from ae damage unless targeted directly. Now as for the comment about mes never being needed....that's false. I have been in so many situations that mes is the only reason me and the group came out alive so never underestimate it. You can always think of mes as a dps reducer for the encounter when that's needed for whatever reason.<div></div><p>Message Edited by shenker on <span class="date_text">01-08-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:10 PM</span></p>

[XtremSummo]

<div></div><p></p><hr><font color="#ffff00">In a multi-mob group, the mobs are always either even, or one or more down arrows.</font><hr><p>Lol.. now that's a group I'd leave I reckon. Even or down con? I'd just solo them and get more XP for meself. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> XP groups should be taking on Heroics really - not down cons.</p><p></p><hr><font color="#ffff00">The tank, if he's doing his job well and has his taunts upgraded properly,</font><hr><p>And if the tank isn't as good as you might want? Perhaps he's much lower level than the others in the group... or just an alt and hasn't upgraded as well as he should have? Or if you don't have good healing in the group? Perhaps use mezzing as a technique?</p><p>It's probably true that if you have a full 6 person group and an excellent tank and strong healing, then mezzing is rarely necessary... but not all groups are full groups with good tanks and strong healing. If you only ever go with excellent full groups, then you'd group a lot less than you could. And part of the challenge and fun of a game like this, is to be able to adapt to different group make-ups that you'll come across.</p><p>If you only have a secondary healer for example, then damage reduction through mezzing can be an excellent strategy if you have a mezzer in the group. If the content isn't too tough, then maybe you'll off-tank with your earth pet to reduce damage if there isn't a mezzer... or maybe you'll use snares to keep mobs at bay more. Or if the player who will take most aggro isn't a tank at all, then you might reduce your AoE and focus on single-target or, or, or...</p><p>There's a whole world of strategy out there that adds fun and depth to the game if you're not hung up on the perfect 6 player, Top Tank + Healer group. You can do and experience a lot more than just that in this game.</p><p>X</p>

[Loral]

<div></div><p>The only valid reason I ever saw to using a mezzing strategy over AoE is when you have only 1 healer in the group, and he is not a good healer.</p><p>Letting the conjuror and other AoE-capable classes do their work will get the encounters down faster and alot more power-efficiently than using the "Mezz encounter, grab one, kill, grab next, kill, rince and repeat" strategy.</p><p>Definitely time to educate your Guild. I would have tought that seeing you in action single-handedly saving the day and handling the mobs would have convinced them. Team up with the Guild's most powerful warlocks and wizards, and make the same encounter again, but with the "no mezzing" rule instead, and see the difference. They will never want to look back to mezzing.</p>

[GSOO]

<div></div><p>The group seemed weak. The worse observation I have to make is: no priest gave out rez feathers/stones etc. You could have rezzed the group in the room regrouped had them kiss your butt for saving their Bacon. The tank had to be weak. Most times getting the groups on him is easy. The only problem is the monk tank...his taunts is the weakest. Zerkers/Gaurdians have a bunch of taunts. </p><p>I am also a full support of having a plan and sticking to it. The plan was no AoE's. So if you accepted that by omission or comission, then you should have adjusted. Groups can be frustrating especially when you know you can kill the mobs faster solo. I group only to be social with the rest of the guild myself. </p>