Tactics for going toe-to-toe with a mob

[Inuki1]

<DIV>Greetings fellow conjurors.  I solo 99.9% of the time, often tackling heroics for xp/questing.  I also enjoy the challenge of taking on big game, so that I need to utilize every resource I have.  That said, I was wondering how others go about this...maybe I'm not being as efficient as possible.  Just looking for ideas.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm also talking about straight up tanking...I kite on occasion with Frigid Winds but I find the process annoying and well..kinda cheesy.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My MO goes like this:</DIV> <DIV>Cast BP/Vehement Rock prefight, then wait a tick for mana regen.</DIV> <DIV>Send earth pet in.</DIV> <DIV>Cast Fiery Doom, Swarm of Bats, Aqueous hunters, Pyrotechnics.</DIV> <DIV>At this point the Vehement Rock has worn off and the pet is usually @ 80% or so.  </DIV> <DIV>Shattered Earth</DIV> <DIV>Start HO, then Word of Force to start it. </DIV> <DIV>Cast Harden to either finish the HO or stun the mob since Shattered is wearing off. </DIV> <DIV>If the HO isnt completed with Harden, use another Word of Force to finish it.  </DIV> <DIV>At this point, the normal Heroic mob is usually about dead.  However, if I'm up against a named Heroic, often at this point they're not even close.  I notice now that my spells aren't close to recycling, and my pet's health usually starts dropping like a rock.  I normally break out the Caduceus to heal the pet about now while waiting for my spells to refresh.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any tips, suggestions, or other strategies?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Currently lvl 56 btw.  </DIV>

[XtremSummo]

<DIV>I find it tough to specify exactly what I'm going to do in which order, because a good amount of it depends upon what happens in the fight itself. I vary a fair bit even when taking down the same mob several times in a row. Still I'll give you an idea of what I do when going up against really tough heroics.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll generally tend to choose to pull from a spot where I can use PB-AoEs for a start. Not always possible like when taking harpies at the Bonsai Tree.. but definitely worth pulling from further away for. Take the time to scout best possible 'pull-to' spots.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If pulling from a distance, I'll use Vehement Stone to get the pet back to me at 100% health. I'll repeatedly hit BP until the pet is back into range and it begins casting. When the mob is at a certain distance from me (timing and judgement) I tell the pet to attack again. With skill, you'll get it so that the pet turns the mob to face away from you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the pet has not taken damage by the time it's about to begin combat and the mob is a melee mob, I may leave the pet to take a couple of hits before starting stifles and stuns - this takes best advantage of BP's reactive hit as well as its weapon proc. The size of the hits and level of damage taken by my pet will determine how long I play chicken. In the meantime, I'll usually be casting Aqueous hunters and Dispel Magic. Depending upon damage levels, I may risk trying to get out Pyrotechnics which is somewhat long casting. If damage levels look good, I may squeeze out a Fiery Doom. If I'm worried, I'll start in with the stuns/stifles.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When starting close to the mob, I often don't use vehement stone at the beginning of the fight - but only buff with BP and get the pet in and fighting. Again this takes advantage of BP's reactive. You'll be wanting to move in once the pet is hitting in order to get in range for PB-AoEs later in the fight, so getting close enough to deliver Vehement Stone mid-battle shouldn't be an issue. If proximity is going to be an issue, then pull to another place. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Chucking vehement stone out later in the fight can be very useful with some mobs. Watch the pattern of attack usage on the mobs as they'll often follow fairly repeatable patterns. If they tend to use really big attacks a little into the fight, try to time your vehement stone to cover that period. If they tend to always hit big at the beginning then start off with VS where possible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I'm not happy to let the pet take some hits, for whatever reason, then I'll usually begin my casting with stuns and stifles while using the damage breaks to cast other stuff. Stifle -> Aqueous -> Stun -> Pyrotechnics or Stun -> Aqueous -> Stifle -> Pyrotechnics are the basic pattern. Stifle first is usually not a problem after a long pull, Stun first if you want your pet to build up a little aggro before delivering that DPS bundle. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Into those basic patterns, I'll often mix in a couple of other casts. So I may add in Frigid winds, Dispel Magic or Fiery Doom after casting each swarm pet. This leaves a couple of seconds between the stifle and stun, so you may see a little damage in there, but you'd be surprised at how often you get away with it - or with just a normal hit rather than a bit one. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Depending upon what has gone before, I may also use the pet heal in the last space made by the stifle/stun pairing. More usual would be to do HO starter + Word of Force (Master Strike if available). PB-AoE and AoE Nuke can be used to advance a star HO if need be. Fiery Doom for the flame ones. Obviously, WoF for the lightning ones. I'll still try to time them well though for the best advantage in other effects. </DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Method of engagement makes a big difference though of course. If you're close enough to cast then using a Hex Doll debuff right at the start of the battle is really useful. It's a good debuff but the casting time means you have to use it before the battle begins really. Time sending the pet in so that the pet's first hits and taunts land just before the debuff lands. Timing the pet attack well is crucial though. If the mob is moving around a lot, then timing can be off - and if the debuff lands before the pet hits/taunts then you can get yourself in some trouble.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you're going up against slightly easier heroics (whichever they are for you) you might consider pulling without vehement stone in order to speed up your kill rate. I'd only recommend this against melee mobs though - caster nukes can be a nightmare. You don't want massively long pulls across landscape if VS isn't on the pet. It's not a bad idea to get the aqueous hunters out first while the pet is still pulling. They may take a little aggro before the pet taunts, which is good if your tank isn't VSed. Your feel for timing and which mobs to try this against can be key.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You have a 10 second recast on the HO starter and its worth waiting a few secs before finishing an HO to time it well, because the next HO is usually 8 seconds away. So if you have a star one to complete and the Earth pet has just fired his knockdown on the mob, wait until it's nearly cleared before using your PB-AoE to complete the HO. That way your couple of seconds knockdown doesn't overlap with the pet's. Or if you only have the AoE Nuke left to complete the HO (low single mob damage, high cost and long casting) but your PBAoE is going to recycle in 10 secs... then wait on completing, cast something else until the PBAoE recycles and then complete the HO. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Always look back to your Fiery Doom during combat. It recycles very fast (8 secs) and casts very quickly (1 sec). It does a set value high hit close to WoF's min damage, then goes on to dot for 6 ticks of around 60 each. If you're nuking, always look back to Fiery Doom in-between casts. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Don't underestimate Swarm of Bats either. The damage isn't great and the casting time can feel sluggish for 6 ticks of ca 60 damage... but it also includes a Defense debuff of 11. If you have a hole in your casting and don't need it for anything else, Swarm of Bats isn't totally out of place.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Depending upon the level of difficulty of the mob and how well your pet is holding up, you may need to heal 2 or 3 times in the battle. That can get you to the point where your stuns/stifles are recycling for battle against very tough opponents. Keeping the pet alive until they recycle can be the key to success against really tough mobs. It's important to get a feel for whether it's going to be necessary early in battle. If you let the pet get down below 50% before you start healing, then you'll often find your heals getting in the way of other things you want to be casting. Learn to get a sense of whether you'll need them and then heal early and take advantage of casting holes where there's nothing compelling to cast. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You need to queue your attacks well. If you wait for things to finish casting and then make decisions, you lose too much time overall from the cumulative hesitations. As you're fighting you need to be judging where things are going to be a few seconds down the line - predicting likely response and queuing your spells appropriately. The best performance comes from seamless constant casting with absolutely no breaks. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are two exceptions to constant queuing for me. First is when your stun or stifle is about to recycle and the battle is hanging on a knife edge. It's worth not casting something for a second in order to make sure your stun/stifle gets out at the earliest possible moment in that situation. The other exception is queuing heals up even though the recycle is going to take a second or two. Once again, that's at the end of a fight when you just need to keep your pet alive a little bit longer - often once you've cast minion's intervention. That together with a heal will often give your DoTs and maybe one more cast to kill the mob... or they may make the space for the stifle/stun to recycle.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's key that you watch your icons refilling carefully and learn to know when spells are going to recycle based on that (tip: it's usually later than it looks hehe). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hope the tips help you out. At your level I had mostly adept 3 T5 spells and an Adept 3 Earth pet and was XP grinding on Giants and Cyclops in PoF killing one every two minutes (VS/Sacrifice recycle) with no root 'n recast. I now XP on only cyclops because the Giants in Giant's Field aren't spawning enough now that they've taken away the flame killed respawn. I could probably write a fair bit more about mob choice, tailoring to specific weaknesses of mobs, power management where necessary, what to do when it all goes wrong etc... but that lot should probably keep you going. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>X</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>57 Conj</DIV><p>Message Edited by XtremSummons on <span class=date_text>12-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:36 AM</span>

[straldehy]

Well for me, I use almost the same method, with a couple changes, solo named heroics(up to blues) and up to white heroic triples: cast bp pre fight swarm of bats fiery doom stalkers pyrotechnics harden at this point depends on the tanks hps usually either a heal, a vehement stone, or both single nuke, fiery doom alternated with a dispel magic thrown in, and maybee a shattered earth/tremor if needed ill heal til the stalkers and pyro are about to expire once they expire...root mob/pull pet back mana drain/sacrifice/mana stone cast air pet (new tank not likely to gain aggro from your damage hate) root again for safe measure... buff air pet, bp comes up cast it on pet swarm of bats Stone skin send pet in stun ....shattered earth or ice for the slow effect and ability to move back some one of you usually dead about then <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> of course doesnt work everytime, but generally does it....after the tank pet is released its a chance of getting killed quite quickly hence the air pet to dish some damage out quicker. timing on the spells works out pretty good too, bp comes back up at a good time shattered earth/harden back up ect. Course i have a master root atm, master air and master stances, root imo after the swarm pets die is the key to even coming close. Any grouped named or heroics and the tactics change a bit of course, but you get the idea for your question. Pushing the extremes like white triples and most blue nameds not totally recommended unless you are determined and dont mind dying a few times before a chance of winning <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> hope that helps some... <div></div>

[StaticLex]

<DIV>For a non-named heroic using the air pet I do this:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Elemental Vestment, Vehement Rock, /pet attack, Frigid Winds, Fiery Annihalation, Swarm of Bats, Calcify, Blazing Presence, Aqueous XYZ, Pyrotechnic.  I wait between each of these spells for the Elemental Vestment effect to trigger, which with the air pet is almost instantly.  Then refresh Fiery Annihalation, Swarm of Bats, rotate Snapping Mandible HOs and pet heals, etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For a named heroic using the earth pet I do this:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Elemental Vestment, Blazing Presence, /pet attack, Frigid Winds, Vehement Rock,  Aqueous XYZ, Pyrotechnic, Fiery Annihalation, Swarm of Bats, Calcify.  Rotate Snapping Mandle HOs and pet heals, etc.</DIV><p>Message Edited by StaticLex on <span class=date_text>12-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:43 PM</span>

[Mordith]

Good posts and I will only add that I like to use shattered and calcify much earlier in the rotation when fighting tough mobs.  The reason for this is that you have a much better chance that those 2 spells will be available for a second cast towards the end of the battle when either you or your pet is trying to stay alive.<div></div>

[Caldw]

<DIV>Most single heroics can be taken out with the tactics already described... buff up your tank pet, send him in, keep the mob stunned / stifled for as long as you can, then alternate nukes with pet heals.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Named heroics (or higher levels that kill your pet before this strategy can work) can sometimes be taken out with a slightly different strategy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Air pet up with offensive stance.  Cast Elemental Vestment / Blazing Presence and send in the pet</DIV> <DIV>- Immediately use Calcify or Shattered</DIV> <DIV>- Put up Vehement Rock on pet</DIV> <DIV>- Sneak in a nuke</DIV> <DIV>- Use other stun</DIV> <DIV>- Nuke</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>at about this point, your Vehement Rock has finally worn off and the pet is about to get rocked..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Root mob, call off pet.</DIV> <DIV>- Wait for spells to come around again, repeat.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The general idea is to not use any DoTs (other than Shattered), so your root is fairly reliable and easy to keep up for as long as you need.  If you're somewhat nervous about doing this with the paper pet, you can always do the same strategy with tank pet and defensive stance, it'll just take longer.  But either way, lay off the DoT spells  and swarm pets, and use those crappy Roots spells we usually ignore <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Inuki1]

<P>Excellent tactics all.  I appreciate the ideas.  I have to admit, it surprised me to see a couple of you incorporating Dispel Magic into your routine.  I never thought about using this - do you find it makes any difference?  </P> <P>With my strategy, casting Shattered Earth and Harden back to back gives me a full 10 sec of my pet taking no damage, but after that time I'm left bereft of any ability to stun for quite a while.  Maybe I'll play with splitting them up a bit.  </P> <P>Caldwyn, you mentioned using another stun...were you referring to our PBAE?  Against one mob, I admit I rarely use this spell - granted it's our highest attack and stuns for 2secs...it just doesn't seem very mana-efficient against one mob.  Should I reconsider? </P> <P>Thanks for all the suggestions.</P>

[Shikar]

<P>I only use dispel if I notice my target has a benefical buff on him prior to engaging. </P> <P>When fighting a solo creature I start with Blazing Presence + Vehemet Rock, send in my pet, then cast Elemental Vestment followed by spells that will trigger it: Aqueous Swarm, Pryrotechnic, Snapping Mandibles, Fiery Doom, Calcify. After that I rotate between the last 3 as they refresh until Elemental Vestment fades and if things are going poorly I Shattered Land and Frigid Winds the creature to give me time to resummon or plan an escape heh.</P>

[StaticLex]

<DIV>I never use the AE spells against one mob, unless I am REALLY desperate for damage.  It's a poor use of power and casting time IMO.</DIV>

[XtremSummo]

<DIV>Dispel Magic often states in the chat that it has an effect on the mob "XXX feels the arcane energies leaving it" where it certainly used to tell you it had no effect when it didn't. Beyond that it's tough to work out what sort of effect it may or may not have. Certainly the chat response is exactly the same as the one you get when you remove buffs from players (where it removes a non-maintained spell). There is also a graphic that kicks off when it works - which sometimes doesn't kick off when used repeatedly on a mob. I have the feeling in battle that it does have some effect - but it's possible that this is just a feeling. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Variance in tactics suggested will often signal a variance in parameters too:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any tactic that uses rooting to make space for pulling the pet back and waiting on the recast timers, usually includes not using DoTs/Swarms at all because they break the root - that makes it very slow. It also needs a goodly amount of safe space with no aggro - which means its application is limited. You can often use this reasonably well for killing specific mobs for a quest or item drop.... but if you're wanting to XP off it it's really just too slow to be worthwhile.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Using the PBAoE is obviously tied to pulling back to a safe pulling spot, so that needs to be a factor. It's not just a good single damage hit though, it's also a knockdown which acts as damage reduction and one of the better star completers for HOs. If you're going toe-to-toe up against yellow ^^^ Heroics then you'll find that very useful.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Players who mention the need to manage power well by not using AE spells may be used to Raid play or may not have optimised their intelligence as well as they can, giving them a very large power pool. When you're going up against really tough heroics, you're time restricted by the 2 minute recycle on VS and Sacrifice, so as long as you can comfortably regain full power before the VS recycles, this shouldn't be an issue. Drain power from pet, use a splinter, sacrifice, drain from new pet + drink on top and you should easily regain power before the next fight needs to get going. If you're going up against easier heroics and don't need to wait on VS/Sarifice, then power management would be a more important factor.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Quite a few tactics mentioned here benefit strongly from you being able to begin the battle within casting range. They're not impossible to do otherwise - but they're much less likely to work against really tough targets if you're not within casting range as the battle starts. When XPing off heroics, you usually need to pull them back a fair distance and moving in close enough to begin the battle yourself will often be too danagerous. It's cool for when you just need one or a few mobs, you can take the time to edge your way in. But if you're wanting to grind repeated mobs, then you really need to reduce the chances of unexpected aggro to a minimum. Pulling back from distance then becomes much more important. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another major difference is having Elemental Vestment (level 58 spell) that can make a significant difference to overall damage dealt by the pet. We don't have that yet unlike quite a few of the level 60 conjs here. I can't tell how much difference it makes - but since it fires off when the pet next hits a mob after you cast a spell, having a hasted pet in offensive stance is clearly advantageous. EV may make the comparisons of content taken on with Earth and Air pet considerably different. At present, my air pet cannot begin to take on the kinds of content I take on with my Earth pet at the speed with which I do it for XP grind... but with EV that may change, I can't know until I actually have it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>X</DIV>

[GSOO]

Only thing you might add is Blazing Presence. It is recast in 30 seconds.....the same time the Vehement takes to fully drop. Also in 45 seconds make youe you cast the fishes and fire guys again. Also if you pull to where you will not gain aggro use the quake line of attack. I try and control my pull locations so I can utilize all my stuns. (Shattered/Harden/Quake)

[Banditman]

At L57, I'm using my Earth pet for the most part when solo'ing.  Blue ^^^, ^^ and paired ^^ are all I've tried so far.I always start with BP / VS before pull, casting BP first so it recycles quicker, often in time for a second cast toward the end of the fight.If I'm facing only one mob, I pull with Frigid Winds from maximum distance.  That gives me the chance to get Pyrotechnics and Aqueous off before the mob ever takes a swing at anything.  While Aqueous is casting, I send in my pet.  Usually the mob will take one swing at the Pyrotechnics or one of the fish, which is fine.  I haven't lost a dumbfire yet to a single hit.After the mob takes that first swing (burning off a swing or maybe a CA), the BP hit from the pet snaps aggro where it should be.  Don't underestimate the value of forcing the mob to burn off that first hit!Anyway, pet now has aggro and I follow up quickly with Swarm of Bats and Fiery Doom to get all my DoT's ticking.Now I kick off a HO and fire my nuke.  Instead of waiting for it to recycle, I queue up Shattered Lands right after the nuke.  Sometimes I get lucky and SL actually completes the HO.  Usually not.  Either way, the cast time of SL coincides nicely with the recast on the nuke, so I can cue it up while SL casts and complete my HO without losing any time.Now I fire off my Stun,  Might as well, right?At this point I have to decide how the fight is going.  Am I doing well?  If so, just do nuke/nuke HO's, throwing pet heals or Fiery Doom in between the nukes in the HO to allow for the recast on the nuke.The key for me is to always be casting SOMETHING.  If I'm not casting, I'm not doing my max damage, and I'm asking to lose.On paired ^^ mobs, I simply root one (taking care to keep it fresh) and have pet kill the other, using basically the same spells, it just dies a lot faster than a ^^^.  Once the first is dead, I wait for BP to be up, and perhaps the fish if it's a higher level mob.One thing that may help Conjurors in the low 50's is knowing about the ^^ Heroics in SS.  There are some undead ones near the Bay of Anuk and some gnolls around the appropriate oasis that are single, unlinked ^^ Heroics between L49 and 52.  These are good to practice on as they aren't quite as serious as a ^^^, but a lot more unfriendly than a solo mob.  They give you a good opportunity to practice your tactics without quite as much risk.

[Nanite]

I'm a level 30 conj and appreciate the advice in this thread, but I have one quick question. I was looking up some of the spells I'm not familiar with under the conjuror spell list on eq2players. I didn't see Swarm of Bats or Word of Force on there however. Is that list not complete or what?

[Banditman]

Word of Force is from the Splitpaw Ad pack, all Mages classes can use this.Swarm of Bats is from Bloodlines Chronicles, all Summoner classes can use this.

[StaticLex]

<DIV>Pairs of ^^ are incredibly easy.  Just use root and kill them one at a time.</DIV>