Did I waste my money on Aery Outrider Adept III

[Poochymama]

<DIV>Well today my conjuror got to lvl 32 and i bought a rough opal to have my new dps made ( outrider adept III)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The reason I did it was because I had heard he does awesome single target dmg and the last pet i got was lvl 20 ( I know you get a fighter pet at 24, but he is still app 1 and I have never used him) so I assumed he would be much better than a lvl 20 bet since he is 12 lvls higher.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Once I got him buffed up I went to parsing him to compare him to my other pets and I was horribly suprised. He seemed to be doing somewhere between 65-90  single target DPS every fight which is pretty low considering my lvl 20 fire pet averages 95-110 DPS single target.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To me it looks like I wasted my 40g on that opal. I bought two , one for him and one for my lvl 34 fire pet. I expected to use him as my single target dps pet and the fire pet as my AE dps pet. However it looks like im just going to keep soloing with my lvl 20 fire pet until I get to 34 and then switch to my new fire pet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyone know what other advantages this pet has that might make me consider using him over the lvl 20 fire pet?</DIV>

[Lader]

<DIV>well, the fire pet is much more fragile than the air pet, as it is a mage and air is a scout. Both of these are more fragile than the earth pet, which is a tank. All pets are situational, so you should take a look at what youre soloing and how efficient the pet is in soloing these mobs (scout pet does do a lot of damage fast, but he can die if a whoel group of mobs jump on him, while the fire pet cant handle much direct damage at all.) Personally, I used the tank pet a *lot* in my younger levels, and switched to scout pet in my 30's because he did more damage faster and could hold up better than the mage in one-on-one fights.</DIV>

[Poochymama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lader wrote:<BR> <DIV>well, the fire pet is much more fragile than the air pet, as it is a mage and air is a scout. Both of these are more fragile than the earth pet, which is a tank. All pets are situational, so you should take a look at what youre soloing and how efficient the pet is in soloing these mobs (scout pet does do a lot of damage fast, but he can die if a whoel group of mobs jump on him, while the fire pet cant handle much direct damage at all.) Personally, I used the tank pet a *lot* in my younger levels, and switched to scout pet in my 30's because he did more damage faster and could hold up better than the mage in one-on-one fights.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well my fire pet seems to hold up pretty well. Nothing ever last long enough to get more than one hit off and so far I havent found anything that will one shot him other than heroics.

[XtremSummo]

<DIV>Hmm... well if you were finding that the Fire pet was more useful with your tactics against the content that you are choosing - then, yes, I suppose you made the wrong decision to upgrade the air pet. Asking us whether the air pet has anything to redeem it is really pointless, because from what you say, you've tested the two pets and for your play the fire pet is clearly better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For myself, I have all three pets at adept3 and my fire pet isn't anywhere near tough enough to stand up to most of the solo content that I choose the air pet for. Fire pet single target DPS is much better with the addition of the new abilities in the last live update, but I can find all sorts of content that my fire pet can't stand up to at all well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's true that some of the content I would have used the air pet for before is now better handled with the fire pet, such as weak green grouped encounters and green singleton solo encounters. It has made the fire pet a more useful pet than it used to be for me as a solo specialist. However, the Air pet still has its uses in my play at least.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But yup, if you can't find a situation where your Adept 3 air pet is better than your Adept 1 fire pet... then you definitely made the wrong choice.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>X</DIV>

[Banditman]

One thing I've found is that all Conjurors are different.  We all have methods that work for us but other people can't make work for anything.You simply have to grow, learn and discover what works for you.  The methods and means available to a Conjuror are many, and the ones that work for you are what you should grow and improve upon.

[GSOO]

<P>WHAT ....We ALL DONT DO THE SAME THING <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />......</P> <P>ok stop the astonished look on my gnomish face <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />........I agree whole heartedly. I for one used the earth pet more during those levels, but have gone to air pet from 46. Bought an Adept 1, but need to get sage 1 level before can make adept 3. I use air pet for fast kills...btw faster kills then wizzies and scouts....we fighting over the goblins in SS <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Air pet I used the app4 because I felt I would out level the use of the pet...and I did.</P> <P>I also fight with rooting mob and pulling pet back....this allows me to kill heroics with less the adept3's and legendary'd out.</P>

[Poochymama]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I think i found a use for him. At lvl 32 with the fire pet the highest mob I can take is a lvl 34 ^. With the air pet I can take a 35^. </P> <P>So I whip him out on the 35 ^ mobs.</P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Zachatan]

<P>when soloing ... i use my earth pet..</P> <P>WHen in groups for single targest i use my air pet...</P> <P>WHen in groups with multi encounters i use my firpet.... </P> <P>When i am bored i use my air pet cause he hits freakin fast</P>

[Meeb]

<P>yes and no </P> <P>i got all my pets from 10- 50 at adpet 3 i know feel that i should only have really bothered with the tank pets and the last fire and air pets as adpet 1's imo would have covered it as a counjuror u can solo very well and level very easy so u don't really need to up grade them that much i got to 50 in a in 4 weeks and mostley solo if i had it to do again i would have done the above</P> <P>it all depends on your play style good luck for the coming lvls race ya to 60 :smileyvery-happy:</P>

[Loral]

<DIV>See, I am at the opposed end of the spectrum.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At 56, I have all my pets at Adept3, and always solo with Earth pet in defensive mode, unless I am slaughtering easy greens. I personally feel the Air pet takes too much spike damage, making the timing of a heal too unpredictable if I am concentrating on burning the mob down. (I am a very lousy priest)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But I am also the kind of guy that prefer to solo Heroics, thus Earth is more suited to my playstyle.</DIV>

[tuckerlord]

<DIV>I have Adept1 pets all around at level 38, I found the firepet is good, but I tend to only use him in a </DIV> <DIV>group fighting groups of mobs with no one mezzing.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On single target mobs when in a group, or when cruising through groups of heoric greys I use my </DIV> <DIV>air pet.  Nothing has beaten his damage AND durabliity yet in those situations.  I see him hitting  for </DIV> <DIV>180-250dmg every couple of seconds.  My firepet tends to get smacked around a lot more and </DIV> <DIV>dies faster unless I can sneak him out of line of site.  I generally ask my group which one they prefer </DIV> <DIV>and use that.  I generally do so much damage either way it really doesn't matter lol.  And I hardly </DIV> <DIV>ever toss a heal, I find dumping all my mana into dps on the targets is a LOT more productive.  Especially </DIV> <DIV>with Rock slide which has a slow built into it and my stuns.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I use my earth pet just about any other time since I solo a lot and tend to almost never use root </DIV> <DIV>spells unless I am trouble.  Forget I have them most of the time because I kill the mobs too fast </DIV> <DIV>for them to kill me.  I can generally take out 1-2 groups of 4-3x level 40 solo monsters at my current </DIV> <DIV>level of 38. Writ cruising is fun.  I also use my earth pet when my group sucks and can't keep aggro </DIV> <DIV>when im only putting out 50-60% of my max dps. He tanks just as well or better than the tanks in </DIV> <DIV>that kind of group anyways lol.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyways I guess what I am doing is enforcing what was said earlier, it all depends on your style of </DIV> <DIV>play more than anything.  If you can eek more dps out of your firepet, tell me how you play so i can </DIV> <DIV>learn another play style, I'd like to use him a bit more. = )  </DIV>

[Banditman]

The "Slow" built in to Rockslide is *not* a melee "Slow" . . . it's a run speed "Slow".  More commonly this is referred to as a "Snare".

[Eyes_of_Truth]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zachatan wrote:<BR> <P>when soloing ... i use my earth pet..</P> <P>WHen in groups for single targest i use my air pet...</P> <P>WHen in groups with multi encounters i use my firpet.... </P> <P>When i am bored i use my air pet cause he hits freakin fast</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>This usto be the case, and thats how the pets were arranged, fire > all on AOE damage, Air > all on Single target damage, and Earth > all  on defense.</P> <P>Now it's Fire > Air > Earth for damage, and Earth > Air >= Fire (not  a huge difference between air and fire)</P> <P>Most people argue the fact that the fire is frailer their for it has the dps bonus over all the others, i dont belive this should be the case, and i dont think this was intended.</P> <P>Moor (i think it was him, might have been BG) said in a post that all pets should have around the same dps or so post update as they did preupdate, with exception that fire pet would recive increased AOE damage so that they pet's roles would be better defined, aka air for single fire for multiple and earth for defense.</P> <P>A liable reason that fire pets are greatly surpassing air pets in offense (you cant compair the 60 air to the 48 fire since they are not in the same tier) is that the offensive stance adds Intel and Haste.</P> <P>Every single one of the mage pet's spells is possativly effected by the +intell, giving him a rather nice across the board dps increase. All it's damage is directly increase from using this stance.</P> <P>Haste ONLY buffs the air pets auto attack swing rate rate, so roughly only 40% of it's damage is even effected by it (thats a guesstiment), while all the Combat Art damage that it loves to do now is not effected by this haste. The Air pet does recive a tiny bit of dps increase on it's 1 or 2 cold based damage spells it uses, but not on the other skills.</P> <P>If they reolaced haste with a +Str or +dps buff, i think would suit the new air pet's AI better. The haste buff usto be very nice when the pets primary form of damage was it's auto attack, but that that it primarily uses combat arts, Str or +DPS is what this pet's AI needs.</P> <P>No need to nerf the air pet at all, but the air pet in offensive stance has been hampered with the change to it's AI.</P> <P> </P>

[Poochymama]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eyes_of_Truth wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zachatan wrote:<BR> <P>when soloing ... i use my earth pet..</P> <P>WHen in groups for single targest i use my air pet...</P> <P>WHen in groups with multi encounters i use my firpet.... </P> <P>When i am bored i use my air pet cause he hits freakin fast</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>This usto be the case, and thats how the pets were arranged, fire > all on AOE damage, Air > all on Single target damage, and Earth > all  on defense.</P> <P>Now it's Fire > Air > Earth for damage, and Earth > Air >= Fire (not  a huge difference between air and fire)</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Atually the air pet takes dmg much much better than the fire pet. Whevever I use my little Take pets life and give me power move it takes the fire pet down to 52% and takes the air pet down to 88%.</FONT></P> <P>Most people argue the fact that the fire is frailer their for it has the dps bonus over all the others, i dont belive this should be the case, and i dont think this was intended.</P> <P>Moor (i think it was him, might have been BG) said in a post that all pets should have around the same dps or so post update as they did preupdate, with exception that fire pet would recive increased AOE damage so that they pet's roles would be better defined, aka air for single fire for multiple and earth for defense.</P> <P>A liable reason that fire pets are greatly surpassing air pets in offense (you cant compair the 60 air to the 48 fire since they are not in the same tier) is that the offensive stance adds Intel and Haste.</P> <P>Every single one of the mage pet's spells is possativly effected by the +intell, giving him a rather nice across the board dps increase. All it's damage is directly increase from using this stance.</P> <P>Haste ONLY buffs the air pets auto attack swing rate rate, so roughly only 40% of it's damage is even effected by it (thats a guesstiment), while all the Combat Art damage that it loves to do now is not effected by this haste. The Air pet does recive a tiny bit of dps increase on it's 1 or 2 cold based damage spells it uses, but not on the other skills.</P> <P>If they reolaced haste with a +Str or +dps buff, i think would suit the new air pet's AI better. The haste buff usto be very nice when the pets primary form of damage was it's auto attack, but that that it primarily uses combat arts, Str or +DPS is what this pet's AI needs.</P> <P>No need to nerf the air pet at all, but the air pet in offensive stance has been hampered with the change to it's AI.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV>

[StaticLex]

<DIV>Hmm, I bet you are using the defensive stance on the air pet, that's probably why it seems crappier than the fire pet.</DIV>

[Eyes_of_Truth]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> StaticLex wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hmm, I bet you are using the defensive stance on the air pet, that's probably why it seems crappier than the fire pet.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>If that was to me, no, im talking about them both in offensive stance, same pet quality (adept1) at level 38, and still true at 40. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This might change  with the 50+ pets as the scout pets get a heavy spike damage attack added that can skew results depeneding on when it's used im guessing.</DIV>

[straldehy]

I am very fond of my air pet since 45 or so, they are a good balance of massive dps and extra thick brawny paper towel armor Wish I would have experimented more with the air at lower levels cause I almost prefer air to the earth now. Fire however I rarely...well...never  use so go figure lol to answer the question no i dont think you did, it is a sweet pet once you get your tactics worked out. <div></div>

[Caldw]

<P>Well, since LU18 I've been getting more use out of my Fire pet in most groups.  I only switch to the air pet if I seem to be drawing too much aggro, since he can take a couple extra hits and give me more time to react.</P> <P>Prior to LU18 it was the other way around, Air pet in most groups and Fire only came out if we were fighting a lot of large encounters where the AE would help.</P> <P>Still use Earth or Air for soloing, and Air always in duels.</P>

[StaticLex]

<P></P> <HR> If that was to me, no, im talking about them both in offensive stance, same pet quality (adept1) at level 38, and still true at 40. <HR> <P> </P> <P>Nah, was talking to the original poster.</P>

[salerene]

<P>I use the earth pet all the time. whether I'm in a group or soloing. Using a combo of root and pet is the way I've always played a pet class(well when the class has root.)</P> <P>I do solo 90% of the time, but when I group I personally don't trust pick up groups all that much. Having the earth pet around is my only out when things go south. </P>

[Poochymama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> StaticLex wrote:<BR> <P></P> <HR> If that was to me, no, im talking about them both in offensive stance, same pet quality (adept1) at level 38, and still true at 40. <HR> <P> </P> <P>Nah, was talking to the original poster.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>No I have offensive stance at master 1 so I never use defensive stance.

[Mouadieb]

<div></div>i have this at master 1 at level 38 and I have never used any other pet for groups.  All my 30-40 spells are adept 3 to master 1 and the fire pet doesn't seem to add as much DPS to a group over my air pet.  Even when killing group mobs I still seem to add more to the group with the air pet.  All my off and def stances are master 1 as well.  I usually even use the air pet to solo blue and lower just because things die so fast.  Did you make a bad purchase?  That is for you to decide but I think scribing the master 1 version instead of brokering it when it droped was worth it to me.  <div></div><p>Message Edited by Mouadieb on <span class=date_text>01-01-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:27 PM</span>

[Eyes_of_Truth]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mouadieb wrote:<BR> i have this at master 1 at level 38 and I have never used any other pet for groups.  All my 30-40 spells are adept 3 to master 1 and the fire pet doesn't seem to add as much DPS to a group over my air pet.  Even when killing group mobs I still seem to add more to the group with the air pet.  All my off and def stances are master 1 as well.  I usually even use the air pet to solo blue and lower just because things die so fast.  Did you make a bad purchase?  That is for you to decide but I think scribing the master 1 version instead of brokering it when it droped was worth it to me.  <BR> <P>Message Edited by Mouadieb on <SPAN class=date_text>01-01-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:27 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Unless the air pet magically gains some new skill at the master one rank, it probly doesnt out dps your fire pet, it may just appear that way. If you do a /log then phrase the damage, it;s likely that your fire pet will come out on top if it is the same spell quality as your air pet. Please test this so we can see, i know the fire>air in all situations i have tested in at the adept1 level.</DIV>

[Mouadieb]

it may parse out more dps but my adept 3 fire pet seems to make the group kill slower than my air pet to me.  I will parse what i can and post it asap.  <div></div>

[Poochymama]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mouadieb wrote:<BR>it may parse out more dps but my adept 3 fire pet seems to make the group kill slower than my air pet to me.  I will parse what i can and post it asap.  <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I parsed them for several hours today with several hundred fights.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U>Single Target lvl 32 Beetle</U></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>lvl 20 Fire Pet Adept III Avg. DPS = 106.42</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>lvl 32 Air Pet Adept III Avg. DPS = 86.91 </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U>Groups of 3 lvl 32 vv deer</U></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV>lvl 20 Fire Pet Adept III Avg. DPS = 114.68</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>lvl 32 Air Pet Adept III Avg. DPS = 59.73</DIV>

[Mouadieb]

i have to admit i was definatly wrong.  I too used the 38 fire pet in a group with just me and a 42 SK.  We were at first using the air pet and when I switched to the fire pet he was amazed as was I at how much faster things died.  He even told me to keep using the fire pet and I will definatly be doing that now.  No actual numbers since we were killing diferent things but my DPS was around 145 with the fire pet out. <div></div>

[Loral]

<div></div><p>One of the recent patch (I think the same as the pet graphic change) changed the Firepet's behavior. It now uses his group spells vs. single target spells more intelligently, and the casting time of most of his spells has been reduced.</p><p>Furthermore, it seems he chain cast even faster than usual, as he very often has no time at all to run up to the mob now. (indirectly rooting him near me)</p><p>When I group, I usually start with Fire now, and if I see that the tank cannot hold aggro, I pull out the Air instead.</p>

[Klu]

I use both myself, not depending on if its multi mob or single mob encounters but rather how good the tank is. The 34 fire pet seems to pull agro off some tanks in longer fights I'v been in, whether they aren't taunting enough or have too low level of taunts I'm not sure. When this happens then of course I end up having to tank and thats not good for anyone. I can then either start sending the pet in later on during the fight or recast a scout pet as he can take a few more hits and doesnt seem to grab agro as much.<div></div>

[XtremSummo]

<div></div><div>See this thread for new pet abilities: <a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=29&message.id=9910">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=29&message.id=9910</a></div><div> </div><div>High quality Fire pets gained single target nukes on top of AoE ones and so now deliver a better overall DPS in nearly all situations. They also gained improved max power which enables them to keep going for longer than before.</div><div> </div><div>The question as to which is better to upgrade is a different one though and you need to look at more than just straight DPS. Air pets have significantly better HP and so stand up longer than the fire pet would in many situations.</div><div> </div><div>Players who use the Air pet in kiting tactics Vs heroics, need the pet to stand up to a couple of hits from time to time. Choosing the Fire pet here would be a mistake - even though its DPS is better.</div><div> </div><div>When going up against groups of blue mobs solo, the fire pet usually isn't fast enough to kill them before being attacked and so the Air pet may be the better choice as it can stand up to some damage and allows the Conjuror to contribute a little more perhaps.</div><div> </div><div>etc etc etc... there are a great manay tactical and content choices that make the Air pet the better choice.</div><div> </div><div>As I said in my original post to this thread - if the OP doesn't choose content or tactics that take advantage of the Air pet DPS and HP mix, then he made the wrong choice in his upgrade. The new pet abilities have made the Fire Pet more useful than before, which of course also means that the air pet has lost some situational use... but just as before, the situation and your tactics will drive your choice of pet.</div><div> </div><div>Overall, I'd say that the pet choice has been enhanced. Where previously the Air pet was used for nearly everything by some players, all three pets now have compelling uses in a more balanced spread of situations. The real end answer to the OP is perhaps, that he shouldn't be choosing between pets to upgrade if possible - he should upgrade them all. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>X</div><p>Message Edited by XtremSummons on <span class="date_text">01-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:51 AM</span></p>

[SilkenMaid]

<div>Agree..try and upgrade them all..as much as possible...</div><div> </div><div>Mind you..do be careful of Earth Pets pulling power..went after one relatively safe ^^ mob and ended up with 3. Was to busy running to take much notice of what happened. I simply think he cast an AE spell at the time..All I can say is the thing has an impressive AE casting range..:smileysurprised:</div><div> </div><div><font color="#ff99ff"><strong><em>* Silkwind - Runnyeye * </em></strong></font></div>

[Hend]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>SilkenMaid wrote:<div>Agree..try and upgrade them all..as much as possible...</div><div> </div><div>Mind you..do be careful of Earth Pets pulling power..went after one relatively safe ^^ mob and ended up with 3. Was to busy running to take much notice of what happened. I simply think he cast an AE spell at the time..All I can say is the thing has an impressive AE casting range..:smileysurprised:</div><div> </div><div><font color="#ff99ff"><strong><em>* Silkwind - Runnyeye * </em></strong></font></div><hr></blockquote><p>Sounds like it could also have been a case of social agro. Many mobs get angry when their friends close by are attacked.</p><p>Utok 32 conjuror; Vork 56 guardian</p>