Live Update #18 Looks Pretty Good For Us

[Ganlu]

<div></div><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=94#M94" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=94#M94</a> Just saw this posted earlier.  They're making a lot of improvements to pets, and I'm pretty happy with all of them.  I really like that pets will look distinct now - I wonder what the aery pets will look like?  I wonder what the upgrades to Tellurian Myrmidon will do, make him even bigger?  The improved taunts are great as well. Anyone here play on Test that can comment on the changes? <div></div><p>Message Edited by stryker115 on <span class=date_text>12-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:46 PM</span>

[Blitzrain]

<P>Looks great.</P> <P>Yay for being able to parse swarm pets easier.</P>

[fodder6]

Lazy Cut/Paste all this and new looks to? <font color="#ffcc00"><b>*** Summoned Pets ***</b></font>   - Summoned pets now have consistent and distinct appearances at each spell level. For example, the level 52 Conjurer ability Tellurian Myrmidon is the only spell that will summon a rock elemental pet; the Necromancer ability Rotting Thrall is the only spell that will summon the previously overused zombie. Other levels will summon different creature types. - Summoned pets in a given spell line have a distinct look at each quality tier. For example, the Necromancer's Diseased Servant spell summons a skeleton warrior. As the spell is increased in quality tier (Apprentice I, Adept I, etc.), the skeleton looks more impressive. - Temporary pets also have new appearances. For example, the Shadowknight's Tainted Sacrament line will change in appearance with upgrades. - Persistent summoned pets start out with a base number of abilities. An additional ability is granted to the pet at each spell level upgrade. Pet spells in the level 52 to 60 spell range now have an additional ability that they did not have before. - Temporary Pets (e.g. Conjurer's Roaring Flames and Necromancer's Ghastly Stench) will now cast their close-range AoE spell more often. - Pets will no longer inherit abilities based on their creature type. - Temporary Pets now display their owner's name. - Fighter and Scout pets now use their combat arts more often. - Fighter pets now taunt more often, and their taunts have a lower chance of being resisted. Their taunt effectiveness should now scale properly with level. - Some Conjurer Fighter pets now have interrupt/knock-down effects, while some Necromancer Fighter pets now have root/stifle effects. - Scout pets had their damage adjusted based on the reuse timer of the combat art. Slower combat arts now do increased damage, while faster combat arts now do less damage. Overall, Scout pets should deal about the same amount of damage they did before. - Mage pets focus more on AoE spells than they used to. These spells have generally been made more effective. - Mage pets are much more resistant to spell damage than they were before, and the size of their power pool has been increased. Casting times on their spells were generally decreased, and their single-target spells will land more often than they did before. - The Illusionist pet spell list now also includes Stunning Array, Lock Mind, and a direct damage/mez spell. They no longer try to cast DoT spells on their target. - Summoned pets now have the same base run speed as their owners. <div></div>

[SaintJ]

good deal <div></div>

[XtremSummo]

<DIV>It sounds amazingly good doesn't it? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>X</DIV>

[Xalmat]

Pictures!Tellurian Recruit Adept 1<img src=http://www.mattcrews.com/images/eq2/testpets-12-10-05/tellurian_recruit_adept_1.jpg>Igneous Apprentice Adept 1<img src=http://www.mattcrews.com/images/eq2/testpets-12-10-05/igneous_apprentice_adept_1.jpg>Tellurian Soldier Adept 3<img src=http://www.mattcrews.com/images/eq2/testpets-12-10-05/tellurian_soldier_adept_3.jpg>Aery Outrider Adept 1<img src=http://www.mattcrews.com/images/eq2/testpets-12-10-05/aery_outrider_adept_1.jpg>Igneous Adept Adept 1<img src=http://www.mattcrews.com/images/eq2/testpets-12-10-05/igneous_adept_adept_1.jpg>Tellurian Avenger Adept 3<img src=http://www.mattcrews.com/images/eq2/testpets-12-10-05/tellurian_avenger_adept_3.jpg>Aery Stalker Adept 3<img src=http://www.mattcrews.com/images/eq2/testpets-12-10-05/aery_stalker_adept_3.jpg>Igneous Magi Adept 3<img src=http://www.mattcrews.com/images/eq2/testpets-12-10-05/igneous_magi_adept_3.jpg>Roaring Flames Master I<img src=http://www.mattcrews.com/images/eq2/testpets-12-10-05/roaring_flames_master.jpg>Pyrotechnic looks the same. Aqueous Stalkers looks like all fish, Aqueous Hunters looks like all manta rays (somewhat cool). I presume Tellurian Myrmidon still looks like the onyx stonegrabber that it currently is, and Aqueous Swarm probably looks like all sharks. No idea what other ranks other than the ones shown look like, nor do i know what necro pets look like, nor Aery Hunter.Personally, I'm not exactly sold on the rock snake for Avenger (why oh why was its name changed?!), and I like the gargoyle for Magi a lot, lot better.As you can tell, swarm pets are now identified like so: <Soandso's suchandsuch>, ie <Sess's aqueous stalkers> or <Sess's roaring flames>. You'll also note that it is broken on Test currently, but I expect that to be fixed by the time this gets pushed Live.

[Sol-the-Wi]

I can't wait for these to hit live... I want to see both of my Master fire pets <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I'm guessing one of them is the gargoyle, as the new magi adept is the current magi master, and I've been missing my gargoyle.<div></div>

[Xalmat]

It won't be the Gargoyle, i don't believe. Upgrades to ranks only change the texture and/or tint of the pet now, not the models.

[Sol-the-Wi]

Dang :-/<div></div>

[Grace_Moll]

I'm losing Grape Ape!?!But I LIKE Grape Ape!<div></div>

[Stormreaver]

Oh OH is Crazy Frog pet gone now? YES!!!

[ClawHammr]

So any idea was  the Magi Master will look like? Seems the are using the current Magi Master graphic for the Magi Adept now.

[StaticLex]

<DIV>It's a good thing they fix the GRAPHICS, I'd hate to see them waste time fixing stupid [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] like the my pet sucking mobs into walls and various other objects causing me to get the "you cannot see that" message.  Or even more worthless nonsense like this new line of sight bug where my pet won't attack a mob in plain view.  I mean that first problem has been around for over a year already, hell, let's let it stay out there for at least 2 more years.  What do ya say, ARE YA WITH ME?!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>:smileymad:</DIV><p>Message Edited by StaticLex on <span class=date_text>12-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:45 AM</span>

[fodder6]

No actually Im not.See the people who do the art are different then the coders who fix collision problems. So be happy that the art people got some time for us. And Im sure the necros will be the first to tell you how happy they are. Im happy as a conjurer. But there pets used to be two models only.<div></div>

[Cronocool]

<DIV>This is all very intresting perhaps the Igneous Magi Master 1 looks like the old adept3 version than?</DIV>

[fodder6]

That would be my guess as well<div></div>

[soulrais]

<P>from my understanding from buddy on test .. </P> <P> </P> <P>app 1-master 1 are same type of pet just small differences in appearance maybe different color weapon they hold or brighter flames.. </P> <P> </P> <P>BUT least its no longer the same old graphix pet we have had for 30 lvls-- glad to get rid of that [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] zombie</P>

[shenker]

I don't know if it's intended or not but there is one problem that I have run into. The tank pet now does an out of encounter AE (not sure if it's a damage skill or taunt). So you need to be careful about where you are using the pet or you will get adds. I find it extremely annoying personaly. <div></div>

[Xalmat]

It's not intended.

[Beldin_]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> shenker wrote:<BR>I don't know if it's intended or not but there is one problem that I have run into. The tank pet now does an out of encounter AE (not sure if it's a damage skill or taunt). So you need to be careful about where you are using the pet or you will get adds. I find it extremely annoying personaly.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I hope that doesn't goes life like the swarmpet bug in the last LU .. ok since i'm 60 the soloing has gone next to zero .. but the tank-pet should always give me a feeling of security .. and not of permanent danger :smileysurprised:

[Uanelven]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>fodder650 wrote: And Im sure the necros will be the first to tell you how happy they are. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Too right.  <span>:smileywink:</span></span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Uanelven on <span class=date_text>12-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:17 AM</span>

[Violat0r]

<P>wow, some really cool changes here, new graphics will be a long awaited improvement, I cant wait to see a string of slightly different looking purple monkeys running around !! j/k</P> <P>Seems the tank taunts WERE slightly weaker than they should have been , this will also be a useful change. Admittedly it wasnt TOOOO much of an issue but when tanking heroic mobs and one peels off on you when frankly it really shouldnt can be an instance outcome changing issue.</P> <P>Did anyone else notice the lvl 15 "call pet to you" spell? This will also be most useful. Firstly, when travelling long distances expecially on a fast horse/carpet, he can lag a long way behind but most usefully , we will be able to T/P the pet to us (theoretically) after evacs etc without having to cancel , recast and rebuff. Hopefully this wont be on a silly long timer as could also have positive implications in combat (assuming its castable in combat that is). Ive lost pets regularly when taking it right down to the wire against heroic mobs , hitting the root / backoff combo and the mob gets one last lucky hit in. Bang, there goes the mana/health regen from the sacrifice *scowl</P> <P>/looks forward to LU18 going live without tank pet PBAOE abilities</P> <P> </P>

[Xalmat]

Pets now keep up with their Master on Test. Even on a horse my pet was keeping up with me.

[Krikket]

when does this go live?

[Xalmat]

No idea, but either this week or next is the best guess.

[Daeanor]

<blockquote><hr>StaticLex wrote: <DIV>It's a good thing they fix the GRAPHICS, I'd hate to see them waste time fixing stupid [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] like the my pet sucking mobs into walls and various other objects causing me to get the "you cannot see that" message. Or even more worthless nonsense like this new line of sight bug where my pet won't attack a mob in plain view. I mean that first problem has been around for over a year already, hell, let's let it stay out there for at least 2 more years. What do ya say, ARE YA WITH ME?!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>:smileymad:</DIV><p>Message Edited by StaticLex on <span class=date_text>12-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:45 AM</span><hr></blockquote>Chill. There are seperate teams doing art and coding. Working on one doesn't mean they stopped working on the other. As has been said many, many, <i>many</i> times, pathing issues need to be adjusted on a per-zone, per mob, per-exact-location basis, and there are a <i>lot</i> of paths to be adjusted. It's going to take some time, and it isn't going to happen everywhere at once.

[Lerath_Litefo]

Since this LU also included the "holiday" stuff, I'm betting they're going to try to push it out pretty quickly.  We'll see though.<div></div>

[Gaylon]

<P>Am I the only one who hates most of the new pet looks? Insects are NOT pets!!! The Necro's get some sweet new looks and all we get is insects and pets that you really can't tell what they look like because their not really solid. Come on if your going to change the look of the pets make them something WOW, not something that you'd never want to stand next to. Now instead of my friendly grap ape I'll have this ugle wurm following me around. There's a reason I selected Conj. and not Necro. Conj. pets should be mobs that come from good lore, not evil lore. </P> <P> </P> <P>Dragonsfire</P> <P>45 Conj.</P>

[XtremSummo]

<P></P> <HR> <FONT color=#ffff00>Quote: As has been said many, many, <I>many</I> times, pathing issues need to be adjusted on a per-zone, per mob, per-exact-location basis, and there are a <I>lot</I> of paths to be adjusted. It's going to take some time, and it isn't going to happen everywhere at once. </FONT> <P></P> <HR> <P> </P> <P>I don't know who said this and when... but it's just not true. While symptoms of bad pathing <EM>can</EM> be fixed by adjusting the landscape modelling on a per location basis, the root causes of pathing issues can in fact be fixed generally with good code.</P> <P>An example: Pets and mobs fighting in walls in mines so that players cannot 'see' the fight.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P>This is a clear mismatch between the rules used for player Line of Sight and the pathing rules used by the NPCs. The pet and mob think that they are still standing upon good zone tiles. The player Line of Sight code deems them to be off good zone tiles.</P> <P>You could try to fix this by finding any potential tile in the landscape that could fall into this definition. This would take an extremely long time to do and you would never get them all. You'd also probably continue to introduce new problem areas with every new zone released... and so on. Going back over all the existing terrain would be a nightmare. Not a good way to deal with the issue. There are two other solutions though...</P> <P>1) You change the pathing code such that the pathing AI uses the same LoS calculation process that is used for player characters. The pathing code then knows which tiles may well appear to be valid to path to but are out of sight to player characters and then doesn't use those tiles. Both mobs and pets would then not go to those tiles - and the issue would not arise.</P> <P>2) You change the LoS code so that it calculates LoS - but then checks whether the tile in question would be valid for pathing AI to reach it. You may need to further check LoS to feet, midpoint and head and compare the results depending upon implementation.</P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>There are ways to fix most general pathing issues in any game. There will still be occasional issues with landscape - but the sorts of generalised issues as we see in mines and recently with LoS in particular are fixable at a general level. Adjusting and increasing the number of so called pathing nodes for more fluent and predictable motion can be useful of course. So can working through landscape and fine-tuning collision borders... but when you see generalised issues like fighting behind walls in confined spaces, then there are general solutions to be found.</P> <P>These are difficult issues though. Getting LoS code to work in a way that players experience as intuitive but at the same time making them work well for the game can be extremely difficult. Pathing AI is a minefield for any game developer (as is most AI) and very often inherits a lot of legacy code handed down over time that is badly documented and so doesn't lend itself well to regular adjustment.</P> <P>To be honest, compared to other games I've played, EQ2 has very good pathing AI. Most of the time it works well, pets and mobs position themselves well without iterative adjustment, pets follow owners extremely well and recover from pathing errors very well. The only real issue I've seen regularly is the confusion between pathing and LoS in confined spaces, which isn't too bad but <EM>can</EM> be solved at a general level.</P> <P>X</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Lerath_Litefo]

<div></div>Ummm....think about what you're saying....Conjurers summon their pets from the elemental planes:  Earth, Air, Water, and Fire.  Three of those types of pets are NECESSARY to be non-solid if they are going to stay true to the idea of this class.  The earth pet needs to be represented by something which has to do with the earth....how did a grape ape ever fit into THAT?  Now an earth rumbler on the other hand is much more appropriate.  I think they did a fine job picking out which models would represent our various pets.  If you don't like them, re-roll and go play with dead stuff.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Lerath_Litefoot on <span class=date_text>12-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:05 AM</span>

[StaticLex]

<DIV> <HR> Chill. There are seperate teams doing art and coding. <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Really?  How do you know this?  Assuming you're right here is one question.  How could it possibly take a team of people dedicated ENTIRELY to graphics over one year to cut and paste pre-existing mob skins for our pet models?  These aren't the least bit new, I have seen all these models in the game since beta.  What they did was a 10 minute cut and paste job.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I simply find it very annoying that a serious game bug exists, and has existed for a LONG time, and rather than spend the time to fix it they cater to the [Removed for Content] who only care if their pet looks different than the next guy's.</DIV><p>Message Edited by StaticLex on <span class=date_text>12-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:40 AM</span>

[Smeegill]

<P>Both Game mechanics and Graphics issues are important.  The game it self is visually based, so the graphics are essential.  Game mechanics do take precident as if they do not function you can't paly at all.  But the issue of visual appeal is important and a valid concern as well.</P> <P>So there are no "[Removed for Content]" who care about only graphics issues.  The point of making the game viuslly apealing is as valid as concerns of pet pathing issues.  Just because you do not care about the appearance of the game does not make it unimportant.</P> <P> </P>

[Loral]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> StaticLex wrote:<BR> <DIV> <HR> Chill. There are seperate teams doing art and coding. <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Really?  How do you know this?  Assuming you're right here is one question.  How could it possibly take a team of people dedicated ENTIRELY to graphics over one year to cut and paste pre-existing mob skins for our pet models?  <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Yes, it has been mentionned multiple times by various developpers. If you look carefully, some of the Art team Devs posts more often in the appropriate section of the forums. You can even see their title "lead art designer", "lead zone designer", "lead quest designer"... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is even one guy I noticed recently that is the lead guy for the music and sounds. (that was related to the crunching sound heard even on a successful safefall)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, that art team has alot on its plate. All the armor models need to fit on all size of all races and sexes, and must follow their movement. Add to that the actual creation of new armor and weapon models. That is a buttload of work. Yes, changing the pet models was probably minor compared to that. LU18 was just the time where that particular request came on top of the priority list, and thus was executed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While the Art team did that repair, it didn't prevent the Zone Design team from patching spots or bugs in other zones, or continue their work on the next expansion, or on the revamping of an old zone to make it more appealing.</DIV>

[fodder6]

Besides art people make horrid engineers and coders. You don't want them spending time diving into the code. Let them draw and make us pretty stuff.<div></div>

[Gaylon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lerath_Litefoot wrote:<BR> Ummm....think about what you're saying....Conjurers summon their pets from the elemental planes:  Earth, Air, Water, and Fire.  Three of those types of pets are NECESSARY to be non-solid if they are going to stay true to the idea of this class.  The earth pet needs to be represented by something which has to do with the earth....how did a grape ape ever fit into THAT?  Now an earth rumbler on the other hand is much more appropriate.  I think they did a fine job picking out which models would represent our various pets.  If you don't like them, re-roll and go play with dead stuff.<BR> <P>Message Edited by Lerath_Litefoot on <SPAN class=date_text>12-14-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:05 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I can see your points. I just feel that there are better models they could use for our pet to convey the elemental point. Additionally, the whole rerolling thing is just plain silly. (Though you may think someone not liking the look of their pets is silly.) A nice touch in these types of games would be to allow a play the ability to select from certain pet looks. </P> <P>Dragonsfire</P>

[Defection]

<P>I like my Uggy Ape too *sniff*</P> <P> </P>

[Lerath_Litefo]

Hey...I for one won't shed any tears over the loss of the grape ape.  I never did like that model as a pet.  Poor guy looked like you conjured him straight off the short bus.  <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span>  I've been wishing for ANY other earth pet model for ages.  I was ecstatic when I got a master scroll for that pet just so I wouldn't have to look at his drooling face anymore.<div></div>

[ClawHammr]

Live Update =DELAYED :smileymad:

[fodder6]

Better delayed then broken and bugged over christmas<div></div>

[Froed20]

Considering they're making our pets AE, I'd much rather them work it out before patching to live.  Would not be a very jolly season if my pet decided to pull all of Splitpaw in one big blast of stupidity everytime I tried to fight <span>:smileysad:</span> <div></div>

[ClawHammr]

Actually they already do AE- The Fire Pet at least I know for a fact does.

[Stamm]

Oh I'm anxious to see my new Master I Air pet.. I wonder how it'll look <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[fodder6]

The pets doing PBAOE's is a bug on Test Center that was fixed on live. (if I read some other posters right). So don't expect it to go live.<div></div>

[ClawHammr]

Seems the Devs are hiding now too