Why use "def" buff?

[Thibor24]

<DIV>I chose the master II attack buff and use it constantly. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The attack buff has a large +def while the defensive buff does not.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The haste on the attack buff i would think beats the + to agro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The + to HP about the only reason i can see to use it but its not enough to be worthwhile.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When does the def buff outweigh the benefits of the attack buff?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[El Chupacabr]

Look again at that "+def" on the offensive buff...

[Blitzrain]

<DIV>I almost always use the attack buff as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Times I use defensive are </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A) Grinding in a 2-3 person group that has no tank and is heavy on DPS already.  Even then its pretty borderline what to use.  </DIV> <DIV>B) Raid mobs that have super nasty AEs.  Air pet often gets one shotted by AE.  So I will use earth in these cases, then use defensive to help keep it alive longer (not landing much damage anyway, especially if mob is crush resistant).  Then I'll just use the pet as a funnel for blazing presence and elemental vestment, plus to sacrifice as needed.   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Needless to say, I have an Air pet up with Offensive stance 99.5% of the time.  I find soloing much more efficient going for high DPS vs. tankage.</DIV>

[Mordith]

I use the defensive stance when soloing heroic mobs. <div></div>

[Loral]

<P>The attack buff has a large negative defensive modifier. Look carefully.</P> <P>Defensive buff is mainly useful to me in pet-tanking for group situations, when exploring areas you are unsure of mob level/strenght, when the mobs you fight chew throu the Offensive-buffed Air pet.</P> <P>Situationnal. You have the tools, use it when you feel you need it. The 3 pets X (2 stances + nostance) gives you 9 pets to cover most situations you may encounter. Some combos are useless (Fire pet in Def mode?), but still, it is a tool in our arsenal.</P>

[Thibor24]

<P>Ah i must have read it wrong as a + to Def instead of a -</P> <P>I think I'll still solo with it but maybe thats why heroics have been kicking me.</P>

[Thoc]

I only use the defensive buff when soloing as well. Also, I only use the earth pet when soloing.I will use the air pet when soloing if I'm going to kill loads of greens.I will never put the defensive buff on air or fire and I never put the offensive buff on earth. Violating these rules really mean that you should select a different pet for your purpose. (IMHO)<div></div>

[XtremSummo]

Quote: I think I'll still solo with it but maybe thats why heroics have been kicking me. <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lol yup.. that'd do it. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Asking why to use the defence buff is like asking why to use the fire pet or why to use the tank pet. There isn't any one pet, buff or tactic that you can use all the time and be fully effective. You use each for the right situation.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>X</DIV>

[Mordith]

<span><blockquote><hr>Thocar wrote:<i><b>I only use the defensive buff when soloing as well. Also, I only use the earth pet when soloing. I will use the air pet when soloing if I'm going to kill loads of greens.</b></i>I will never put the defensive buff on air or fire and I never put the offensive buff on earth. Violating these rules really mean that you should select a different pet for your purpose. (IMHO)<div></div><hr></blockquote>At level 57, I find the air pet with the offensive buff to be much more efficient to solo anything that is non-heroic.  This includes yellow con mobs.  The mobs die so fast that the lack of defense rarely comes into play.</span> <div></div>

[[email protected]]

I 3 box with a Conjuror as middle box.  I exclusively use pets in defensive stance as a 'tank' because my other crafters are a Templar and a Illusionist.  The Illusionist's <EM>haste</EM> seems to offset the -25% attackspeed affect well.  Pet grabs agro most of the time, and after a hit or two, I let fish finish off heroics while my party kills a new mob.  I've respec'd to mostly Master II defensive stance, and when I hit 54 I plan on going Geotic Rune if the numbers are 20% better than an Adept III.  My job is to make a better pet and enhance the party, therefore the group buff seems appropriate to me.

[StaticLex]

<DIV> <HR> <DIV>When does the def buff outweigh the benefits of the attack buff? <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Usually when you AE a group of mobs and all but the one your pet is one come after you..</DIV></DIV>

[XtremSummo]

<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Quote: At level 57, I find the air pet with the offensive buff to be much more efficient to solo anything that is non-heroic.  This includes yellow con mobs.</FONT> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I find this a little puzzling to be honest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I solo for XP, I want to fight heroics or grouped mobs for the XP bonus on the whole. I've found I generally get better XP over time from these. For both, the Tank Pet is best with Def stance - air pet gets damaged too quickly by grouped mobs and is hopeless for heroics.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I solo for good quests, most of the time they're tough mobs that you need the Tank pet in Def stance for, air pet just won't cut it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I harvest and need a pet to hold off aggro while I harvest, Tank pet with def stance is better. Air pet won't hold groups and what you want is just a tank holding the mobs while you harvest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I go after master chests, Tank pet with def stance is the only choice.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sooo which soloing is it that I'd want to use the air pet for? Well I could use it for writ stuff mebbe and I tend to pull it out when I have to kill greys and greens. Also, I suppose, if I wanted to just do hands free soloing with little or no casting from me, then I'd use the air pet against singleton yellows or something... but I hardly ever choose to do such a thing... where's the fun in that?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Air pet is great for grouping when mostly singleton mobs are being attacked and for Raids where the fire pet AoE dps is too much or will muck up tactics. If you're a bit lazy and are going up against easy singletons, then it's good - but as above... why would you be doing that so much? It's really fairly rare that I'll get out the air pet for soloing of any major purpose.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>X</DIV>

[Blitzrain]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> XtremSummons wrote:<BR> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Quote: At level 57, I find the air pet with the offensive buff to be much more efficient to solo anything that is non-heroic.  This includes yellow con mobs.</FONT> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I find this a little puzzling to be honest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I solo for XP, I want to fight heroics or grouped mobs for the XP bonus on the whole. I've found I generally get better XP over time from these. For both, the Tank Pet is best with Def stance - air pet gets damaged too quickly by grouped mobs and is hopeless for heroics.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I solo for good quests, most of the time they're tough mobs that you need the Tank pet in Def stance for, air pet just won't cut it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I harvest and need a pet to hold off aggro while I harvest, Tank pet with def stance is better. Air pet won't hold groups and what you want is just a tank holding the mobs while you harvest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I go after master chests, Tank pet with def stance is the only choice.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sooo which soloing is it that I'd want to use the air pet for? Well I could use it for writ stuff mebbe and I tend to pull it out when I have to kill greys and greens. Also, I suppose, if I wanted to just do hands free soloing with little or no casting from me, then I'd use the air pet against singleton yellows or something... but I hardly ever choose to do such a thing... where's the fun in that?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Air pet is great for grouping when mostly singleton mobs are being attacked and for Raids where the fire pet AoE dps is too much or will muck up tactics. If you're a bit lazy and are going up against easy singletons, then it's good - but as above... why would you be doing that so much? It's really fairly rare that I'll get out the air pet for soloing of any major purpose.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>X</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I find the Air pet more efficient in soloing ^^ and ^^^ mobs.  It just kills sooo much faster.  Multi-mob encounters and such, I can see the need for an earth pet in defensive to keep things taunted.  But in any somewhat controlled environment where I am fighting mobs one at a time (including ^^^ heroics), its Air pet all the way.  If I am harvesting (and I usually harvest in Pillars around all the gob camps), Air pet does fine keeping the one or two I may aggro off me.</P>

[XtremSummo]

<DIV>Is it just a level 60 air pet thing perhaps? If I send my Air Pet in Off stance against any ^^^ Heroic it gets eaten. If I use the Air Pet in defensive stance against ^^^ Heroics it gets eaten... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I usually solo blue/white ^^^ Heroics for XP grind so I haven't tried much against green ^^^ heroics... perhaps the air pet can handle them? I may give that a try. Still for general soloing the tank pet would still be better as green ^^^ heroics isn't best XP.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll give it a try though and see how it goes. If I change my mind I'll let you know. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>X</DIV>

[Blitzrain]

<P>It definitely gets eaten if you try and let it tank straight up.  I usually start with a Frigid Wind (snare), unload swarm pets, then send the Air pet after a little bit (armed with blazing presence and elem vestmant if its up).  Once it grabs aggro, I try and keep the mob stifled and stunned as much as possible as I dps.   After the first stifle and stun, the mob is usually pretty much dead.   Two quick heals on the pet, and I am usually ready for the next one.   Obviously this requires some room to work and move around....in a dungeon earth would likely be the way to go, but if I am grinding xp I am usually outside.   </P>

[XtremSummo]

<DIV>I just got frigid wind so I'll give that a go and see how it works for me. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Without the 75% snare on Frigid Wind though I don't think you could use this tactic well. The AoE Nuke which has the snare would be the only option before level 55 at 34-40% depending upon level - it wouldn't give you enough time to get swarm pets out and you'd have to send your air pet in too early... you'd be hit yourself within a couple of seconds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your tactic is a bit to 55+ specific, I'm not sure that lower level conjurors could take on ^^^ heroics well with the air pet... and it's essentially kiting and so dependent upon a good amount of space... not usually brilliant for XP grind. I'll give it a go like I said though - always willing to learn new tricks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>X</DIV><p>Message Edited by XtremSummons on <span class=date_text>12-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:34 AM</span>

[Blitzrain]

<P>Yeah, while technically kiting, its not like you're running around the zone....usually everything can be done without you moving if you pull at max range (Frigid Winds is a darn good snare :smileyvery-happy: ).  Only reason I like space is so I can take off easily if I grab aggro from another heroic on accident.   Often if I am xp'ing, I find destroying hordes of solos better than heroics, so the air pet works there too.  </P> <P>It's good to see different ways of doing things, combat revamp really opened up our class a lot.</P>

[Fayline Fyrecat]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blitzrain wrote:<BR> <P>It's good to see different ways of doing things, combat revamp really opened up our class a lot.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV>I agree, I really enjoy what our class has become.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've been using the air pet almost exclusively since 54, personally.  For solo groups yellow and lower (e.g. harpies/sandcrawlers) I just send him in BP'd, and start AE'ing.  I draw aggro, but the mobs go down fast enough to keep me safe.  In areas where I can't use Quake I'll throw out the swarm pets and heal a couple of times.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For ^^^ mobs I take a more conservative approach; but it can work for anyone 50+.  I simply repeat this cycle as the spells refresh: Blazing Presence -> Harden/pet attack -> Shattered Land -> root/pet back-off.  By the time BP's up again, the rest are ready to go too.  It's probably slower than using frigid winds; but gives the opportunity for the pet to regen some hp, resummon if needed, or use sacrifice if I got hit somehow.  One warning with this though; our 'seed line is the root-killer.</DIV>

[Beldin_]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fayline Fyrecat wrote: <DIV>I just send him in BP'd, and start AE'ing.  <BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>If you can always send him BP'd against solo mobs that shows that your not really effective, cause normally for me with using Tankpet BP is only up for 1 of 2 fights <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[StaticLex]

<DIV>I am surprised how many people use AEs early on in fights.  To me that is a last ditch effort, if at all, since it's so inefficient.  99% of the time I start with Frigid Wind, followed by Fiery Annihalation, Swarm Of Bats, Aqueous XYZ, Calcify, then alternate Snapping Mandibles (HO) and heals until the mob dies.</DIV>

[Beldin_]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> StaticLex wrote:<BR> <DIV>I am surprised how many people use AEs early on in fights.  To me that is a last ditch effort, if at all, since it's so inefficient.  99% of the time I start with Frigid Wind, followed by Fiery Annihalation, Swarm Of Bats, Aqueous XYZ, Calcify, then alternate Snapping Mandibles (HO) and heals until the mob dies.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I always use aqueous first, if they are up, cause they do damage for 45 seconds, casting them 5 seconds before the mob dies is a lot of wasted damage <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[Fayline Fyrecat]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Beldin_ wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fayline Fyrecat wrote: <DIV>I just send him in BP'd, and start AE'ing.  <BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>If you can always send him BP'd against solo mobs that shows that your not really effective, cause normally for me with using Tankpet BP is only up for 1 of 2 fights <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Beldin_ wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> StaticLex wrote:<BR> <DIV>I am surprised how many people use AEs early on in fights.  To me that is a last ditch effort, if at all, since it's so inefficient.  99% of the time I start with Frigid Wind, followed by Fiery Annihalation, Swarm Of Bats, Aqueous XYZ, Calcify, then alternate Snapping Mandibles (HO) and heals until the mob dies.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I always use aqueous first, if they are up, cause they do damage for 45 seconds, casting them 5 seconds before the mob dies is a lot of wasted damage <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Well, if you're going to go so far as to say I'm not "effective," let me point out one thing.  The technique referenced above lists our lowest dps single-target dots and our swarm pets which do provide some AE damage but are mostly single target.  My example opts for our quick, high damage AE spells.... and though I'm not going to bother getting a pen and paper for the math, I wouldn't say that's inefficient.  I hope you don't think I sit there sucking my thumb for those four spells to refresh; I never said I didn't use anything else. (Nor that any preferred strategy was better than another, let's keep this thread more geared towards open discussion and suggestions than direct criticism, k?)<BR><BR>

[Mordith]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>XtremSummons wrote:<div> <hr> </div> <div><font color="#ffff00">Quote: At level 57, I find the air pet with the offensive buff to be much more efficient to solo anything that is non-heroic.  This includes yellow con mobs.</font> </div> <div> <hr> </div> <div> </div> <div>I find this a little puzzling to be honest.</div> <div> </div> <div>When I solo for XP, I want to fight heroics or grouped mobs for the XP bonus on the whole. I've found I generally get better XP over time from these. For both, the Tank Pet is best with Def stance - air pet gets damaged too quickly by grouped mobs and is hopeless for heroics.</div> <div> </div> <div>When I solo for good quests, most of the time they're tough mobs that you need the Tank pet in Def stance for, air pet just won't cut it.</div> <div> </div> <div>When I harvest and need a pet to hold off aggro while I harvest, Tank pet with def stance is better. Air pet won't hold groups and what you want is just a tank holding the mobs while you harvest.</div> <div> </div> <div>When I go after master chests, Tank pet with def stance is the only choice.</div> <div> </div> <div>Sooo which soloing is it that I'd want to use the air pet for? Well I could use it for writ stuff mebbe and I tend to pull it out when I have to kill greys and greens. Also, I suppose, if I wanted to just do hands free soloing with little or no casting from me, then I'd use the air pet against singleton yellows or something... but I hardly ever choose to do such a thing... where's the fun in that?</div> <div> </div> <div>Air pet is great for grouping when mostly singleton mobs are being attacked and for Raids where the fire pet AoE dps is too much or will muck up tactics. If you're a bit lazy and are going up against easy singletons, then it's good - but as above... why would you be doing that so much? It's really fairly rare that I'll get out the air pet for soloing of any major purpose.</div> <div> </div> <div>X</div><hr></blockquote>When I am talking about non-heroic, I am including groups of solo encounter mobs that are high yellow cons.  With BP, then shattered followed by quake (all adept 3) the entire group of mobs is pretty much dead by the time quake is done.  If you can find a steady supply of grouped solo encounters, the exp cannot be beat.  I too solo lots of heroic encounters for good exp but it can't beat soloing grouped solo encounters with air pet in offensive mode. The only time I break out Myrm in defensive is for ^^^ heroic encounters, but if it involves only ^^ single mobs, I will typically stick with air in offensive mode.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Mordith on <span class=date_text>12-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:52 AM</span>

[Banditman]

It all sounds good, but at L49 (should ding 50 tonite), I can surely say that my Air Pet most definitely gets eaten against Heroics.  The snare sounds nice, but with 5 levels to go, its not something useful right now.My Earth Pet has a tough time staying alive long enough to kill heroics 9 levels below me, let alone something non-green or an Air Pet.

[XtremSummo]

<P>"I too solo lots of heroic encounters for good exp but it can't beat soloing grouped solo encounters with air pet in offensive mode."</P> <P>Hehe we'll have to agree to disagree I think. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </P> <P>X</P>

[Thibor24]

<DIV>I have a question for the person who pulls with frigid winds and then uses swarm pets.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How do you keep the swarm pets alive?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If i start the fight with them instead of my main pet they will die in like 5 seconds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Using frigid winds to pull is good but the longer you hold your pet off the more agro you build up and it can get dangerous when a heroic is wailing on you and your pet cant get it off.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sounds fun if i could get it to work, just looking for advice.</DIV>

[Loral]

<P>Basic kiting strategy is to have the mob mad at you, and try to hit you, but since you stay out of range, it runs at you endlessly while you do damage.</P> <P>Thus open with Frigid wind from max range. Mob slowed by 75% and starts toward you. Keep adding spells like Shattered Land, Fiery, Swarm of bats, etc, all the while moving back between casts. When the mob is mad enough at you, launch the swarm pets (fish and fire) and send in the offensive Air/Fire pet. Normally, if you have built up enough aggro, the mob will keep chasing you while all the DoTs and pets hammer it. Refresh DoTs as needed, and keep out of melee range.</P> <P>Welcome to cheat heaven, or "why EQ1 became unbalanced at high levels". Kiting.</P>

[Jeradim]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Loralor wrote:<BR> <P>Basic kiting strategy is to have the mob mad at you, and try to hit you, but since you stay out of range, it runs at you endlessly while you do damage.</P> <P>Thus open with Frigid wind from max range. Mob slowed by 75% and starts toward you. Keep adding spells like Shattered Land, Fiery, Swarm of bats, etc, all the while moving back between casts. When the mob is mad enough at you, launch the swarm pets (fish and fire) and send in the offensive Air/Fire pet. Normally, if you have built up enough aggro, the mob will keep chasing you while all the DoTs and pets hammer it. Refresh DoTs as needed, and keep out of melee range.</P> <P>Welcome to cheat heaven, or "why EQ1 became unbalanced at high levels". Kiting.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I'm kind of surprised such a powerful snare made it into the game tbh.  The other overpowering abilities from EQ1 -charm, slow and mez- have been reduced in effectiveness (or the necessity to even use them) for their EQ2 counterparts so that they are not overpowered and game breaking.  I'm expecting it will be nerfed before I hit 55 and get to use it though :smileywink:</P> <P>About using AoE's against single targets:  I'll use the Shattered line pretty much every fight AOE or not because it's such good DPS.  I'll often throw in a quake too for the knockdown effect if my stun (and/or my Templars) is not refreshed yet.  Typically I stun, then get the fishies out ASAP then single target DoTs (Fiery and Bats) then shattered (have to wait for pet to build some aggro) then stun again when it refreshes and snap off an HO in between if there's time.  I like to trigger with the templar and advance with the conjurer.  While I'm laying on the DoTs I debuff with the templar.</P> <P>I'm not at the lvl yet where my air pet can tank high heroics.  He can do green ^^^'s fine though and even 2 blue ^^ ones.  Blazing presence makes a big difference here since it adds a TON of damage the mobs go down that much quicker.  Straight up tanking though (with a templar healing) I can't do more than a blue ^^^.  That's a single pet the whole fight, no rooting, no recasting and judicious use of stuns and stifles.  I use my air a lot, but if I'm around a bunch of high lvl ^^^'s I prefer the security of the tank pet in defensive.  </P> <P> </P>

[itsmelen]

<div></div>WARNING: I have hijacked this thread. My post has nothing to do with the merits of offensive vs. defensive stance while soloing. I am responding to StaticLex's post. I am going to respectfully but vehemently disagree that our AEs are inefficient. To be sure we're on the same page, we have 3 AEs: Shattered Land, Flash Flood, Quake/Tremor. If you are fighting a heroic encounter that is not a single ^^^ but rather 2^^ mobs or 3/4 no arrow mobs, then this spell is the exact opposite of inefficient. It does 1.5K per mob in an encounter, and is usually one of my highest damage spells. Even if you are talking about only against single ^^^ mobs, this is still a very good spell. It will still do the 1.5K damage, and also has a 5 second stifle. For illustrative purposes, take the cyclops in PoF as an example. They are a mix of single ^^^ and 3/4 group mobs, one of which is usually ^^. For the single target mobs, SE is useful as a 5 second stifle which 1) allows you time to summon your swarms, 2) gives your pet a 5 second reprieve from damage, 3) deals 1.5K damage. For the group mobs, with the ^^ targeted, SE immediately followed by FF is 7-8K damage over 4 mobs in a 5 second time span (counting from when SE triggers and assuming you cast FF immediately after, thereby firing it before SE finishes). These in conjuntion with other spells is immediate mob death. Sending a pet against that group with BP and EV up, letting it get aggro and then casting SE followed by FF basically means the no target mobs are dead and you are left with the ^^. Flash Flood is slightly less useful, because its a comparatively long cast time and against single mob encounters does not do significantly more damage than snapping mandibles. However, the 40% effect is great, especially before you can get frigid winds. As for Seismic Tremor (Quake at the lower levels), it is the highest single damage (as in not a DoT, like SE or BP) spell we have, triggers across 8 mobs, and also has a 2 second stun. Granted, ST has a huge drawback in that it's not encounter locked and that it's point-blank, but that doesn't make the spell inefficient. In dungeons, it's not great because it reaches through walls, but it's still a critical part of any conjuror's arsenal, both for the damage and the stun. *Edited so as not to look like a block of text, as well as fixed some small typos. <div></div><p>Message Edited by itsmelen on <span class=date_text>12-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:53 PM</span>

[Wildmage]

where exactly are you hunting that you can kite without having adds? I can't imagine trying to kite in any of the overland zones, unless your fighting the strongest/best around and everything else is greyed out/nonaggro. <p>Message Edited by Malbi on <span class=date_text>12-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:23 PM</span>