Master II at 54 -- Questions before I decided

[Drah]

<DIV>Hello all:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am getting close to the 54 mark and have read all the guilds suggesting what master to take....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As it is I was going to to choose the Offensive Stance Spell for pets to get Master II.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I figured in groups I use that spell all the time..where as the swarm spell I cast only every other pull.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then it hit me...  What if the pet is hitting the haste cap at Adept III of the Offensive stance spell?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would be waisting a Master II choice!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Does anyone have any hard data to support that the pet does more dmg at Master II vs. Adept III?  Does anyone know what speed the pet attacks at?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think the haste cap is like .6 or .7?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was just hoping for some hard comparisions...  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a side note...anyone know what our swarm spell does at adept III versus master II?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For the most part those are the only two spells really worth the master II choice.  I know they are both good, but I would love some hard numbers before I choose.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nolof</DIV>

[Xalmat]

What haste cap? This is the first I've heard of it. If you're referring to the myth that weapon delay can never be faster than one second, that is indeed a myth brought about by a parser's inability to track damage faster than one second.And besides, the 170 INT and +26 to Slashing, Crushing, and Piercing should be reason alone to get the Master II. HUGE upgrade for the Fire pet, to say the least, and the Air pet gets a nice DPS boost from the decreases in misses as well.<p>Message Edited by Xalmat on <span class=date_text>12-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:20 AM</span>

[Drah]

<P>Xalmat:</P> <P> </P> <P>Which spell did you choose for Master II?</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Sanamien]

He chose Aggravate, as did I. Never regret it a second <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Xalmat]

<blockquote><hr>Sanamien wrote:He chose Aggravate, as did I. Never regret it a second <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div><hr></blockquote>Correct.

[Loral]

<P>You guys have no problem with tanks keeping aggro out from the pet? My offensive stance is just Adept1 (all pets Ad3) and there are few tanks that can keep aggro from the pet. And if tank dies, pet is 95% of the time the 2nd one on the hate list.</P> <P>Thus, I took the fishes, but I would love to respect for the Offensive stance. But man, am I scared of it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Xalmat]

<blockquote><hr>Loralor wrote:<P>You guys have no problem with tanks keeping aggro out from the pet? My offensive stance is just Adept1 (all pets Ad3) and there are few tanks that can keep aggro from the pet. And if tank dies, pet is 95% of the time the 2nd one on the hate list.</P> <P>Thus, I took the fishes, but I would love to respect for the Offensive stance. But man, am I scared of it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <hr></blockquote>Unless I cast Blazing Presence too soon, or the tank outright sucks, I've yet to see a competent tank ever lose aggro to my Adept III Air and Fire pets.

[El Chupacabr]

<P>They sure should be able to, Loralor... the necro stance is considerably stronger than the conjuror one as far as the scout pets are concerned and I never have any problems once the tanks realize they have to do their jobs at all times.  With a new tank, you'll probably take a death until they figure things out but that's just the way it goes.</P> <P>Course, you guys do pull a little more burst pet agro than we do due to BP vs. rending fury... I say respec and then belittle the tanks when they can't hold agro from your pet <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</P>

[Banditman]

What I normally do in a pickup group when I don't know the tank and his aggro skill is start with my "tank" pet in no stance with no Fire Seed.  I let that go on for a few pulls as I watch the tank and how he taunts, see whether my pet gets aggro.If my pet doesn't pull aggro I start adding things in steps like this and watching each step for a few pulls:1.  Tank Pet, no stance, no Fire Seed.2.  Tank Pet, Offense Stance, Fire Seed.3.  Air Pet, no stance, no Fire Seed.4.  Air Pet, Offense Stance, no Fire Seed.5.  Air Pet, Offense Stance, Fire Seed.Its kind of sucky to have to go to all that trouble, but it keeps me alive, and I like to stay alive.  Some tanks, well, many tanks, still don't really understand that Conjurors *are* a DPS class and we can put out a very significant amount of damage.

[Xalmat]

<blockquote><hr>El Chupacabras wrote:<P>They sure should be able to, Loralor... the necro stance is considerably stronger than the conjuror one as far as the scout pets are concerned and I never have any problems once the tanks realize they have to do their jobs at all times. </P><hr></blockquote>I dunno about that. As far as I can tell, the 170 INT the Master II Aggravate provides greatly increases the scout pet's spell damage (and it likes to use them quite a bit).

[El Chupacabr]

<DIV>I'd still bet the 10% 200ish lifetap on a 51% hasted pet would outdo the damage gains of the that 170 int since the recast timers are pretty long on scout pet specials.</DIV>

[Xalmat]

Not if you factor in Blazing Presence every 45-50 seconds, and Elemental Vestment <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[El Chupacabr]

<P>Or the 40% effective haste (+20% haste +20% dps) of rending fury with consumption (ok, every two minutes but still...).</P> <P>I even noted your burstiness, so don't get cocky with me, Xalmat <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</P>

[Xalmat]

Much h8 for Rending Fury. All we get is a lousy 3 hit rune <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Gorhauth]

<span><blockquote><hr>Banditman wrote: Its kind of sucky to have to go to all that trouble, but it keeps me alive, and I like to stay alive.  Some tanks, well, many tanks, still don't really understand that Conjurors *are* a DPS class and we can put out a very significant amount of damage.<hr></blockquote>That is way too much work.  I just hop right in, Fire Pet or Aery with offensive stance and Blazing Seed.  I also flameshield and Blazing Seed the tank.  On the first pull, give him a 10 count before sending in the pet and the fishies.  Then I go from there.  I was in one pickup group where the tank saw me with the Fire Pet and actually said 'whoa, you are the first conjuror who didn't use a tank pet in a group - nice to meet somebody who knows their class'. Personally, I would be really wary if somebody joined my group with something as out of place as the tank pet up right at the beginning.  It might lead to more tenative pulls, since you aren't sure if they were smart enough to at least put the offensive stance on, or if they were going to just do their damnest to pull the mob off the tank. Basically, I can see nothing good coming from taking those steps.  Agro isn't just the tanks problem, it is everybody's problem and each person needs to manage their own agro.  That being said, certain group makeups really trivialize agro management.  If you have a Pally in the group, an assassin, a coercer or a dirge even, tank hate is through the roof.  Ask a guard to 'foosball helmet' you (assauge).  If you have a swashy, have them annouce when they use Devious Blade, or when a ranger uses Confusion Arrow.  Its not just about knowing what you can do, but what others can do also.</span><div></div>

[XtremSummo]

<DIV>Fire Pet is a funny one though. If you're reliably going up against groups of mobs then it's undoubtedly the best.... but a lot of T6 groups are doing the flat tops of PoF mountains for XP these days, and you get a mix there of singletons, named and groups. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When you're fighting singletons, you always feel you want the air pet out. When you're fighting the groups you want the fire pet - and in an XP group there's little time to switch. I've been opting for the air pet of late, because then when we hit the named/singleton ones I'm doing the best possible damage and I do a little less damage on the groups.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The situation  defines very much which pet you're using and in mixed target groups, I reckon air pet is the better overall choice.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>X</DIV>

[Inuki1]

<P>I'm going against the majority here - I'll be picking the fishes next level (currently 53).  I decided on making Aggravate Adept3 since I solo 99% of the time, and tackling heroic mobs, whether xp'ing or questing I'm using the earth pet on defensive anyway.  Plus at 55 with Frigid Winds, I anticipate the fish being of more use while I'm kiting the mob. </P> <P>When I do group, putting the air pet into offensive gets the pet aggro quite often.  Enough where I'm casting Vehement to try and save it.  Of course, I DO tend to send the pet in with BP as soon as the tank gets into camp...I'm just NOT a patient man I guess <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>If anyone has any parsing of the disparity between Ad3 and Master1 I'd be all ears. </P> <P>Froakenstein, Guk</P>

[Blitzrain]

<DIV>I haven't done any parsing yet, but the difference between the AdeptI and the MasterI (just bought) isn't super obvious.   I wish the Master and Adept3 gave more fishes like it did before the revamp.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think its a mistake to not take Aggravate, the scaling is huge and even if you're soloing Air pet + Aggravate is an awesome setup.</DIV>