Aggro control?

[Nari]

My husband is the conjuror in our duo with my templar.  He is level 35 and I am 40.  He favors the air pet because it does so much damage.  It seems that they compete ferociously for aggro.  I can sometimes win it from the pet, but I can never pull a mob off of him.  We don't know other conjurors to compare strategies with, but we could use some advice. What types of things can he cast to produce less aggro?  He sends the pet in buffed and casts some spells on him.  Otherwise, he uses some DoTs or roots.  The DoTs still get the mob good and mad.  He'll start nuking when it's been a long fight and I am out of power after healing him so much from the aggro. He said his DoT has a pacify effect, but I told him that we have to stop hurting the mob to be able to give him a break in that case.  I can tone down the type of mobs we fight, I guess.  We had a close loss vs. an even con (to him) heroic ^^^ guy in Zek.  We might be able to take him next time.  Is there a way that we could more easily ensure a win? Any help you guys can provide would be great. (I know very little about conjurors.  Also, if there are little tricks a healer can provide, I am open to suggestion.  I buff with a group reactive then pull the mob with an armor debuff.  Then I cast a bunch of debuffs (usually spells that heal us when the mob hits or is hit) by then, I throw a reactive on whoever has aggro and repeat the debuffs with spike healing where needed. (This is the strategy for fighting one heroic hard-hitter) Thanks in advance. <div></div>

[Raybour]

<P>Personally, in such duo circumstances, I typically do not use my air pet - but rather my earth (tank) pet.  The air pet does not have taunts while the earth pets hold aggro very nicely while I dot and nuke away.  One caveat:  my earth pet has tended to be Adept III and I've consistently chosen defensive buffs when going for my Master II's - because I solo a ton.  Even without that level of spell, though, I think that the earth pet and defensive buff would be the desirable combo in a duo with a Templar - and in fact I found in Zek with a healer partner we ruled (well, as long as we weren't stupid about our targets).</P> <P>As the healer on hand, you'll be able to heal the pet (adding to the Conjurer's pet healing) just as you would a PC tank.  DPS will suffer a bit, but you'll win almost invariably if you pick your targets wisely - and blue +++ heroics should be easily doable (heck, I was able to solo them at that level - after the revamp).  Against solo mobs, have the conjurer get behind the mob and send in his water and fire dumb pets and dot the heck out of the mob in order to maximize DPS - then nuke (and heal the pet) at will.  With grouped mobs, similar strategy will work, as the earth pet will be able to gain aggro on a group (more advice on that is all over this board).  The conjurer has 2 lines of green (encounter-limited) aoe spells that can be cast against the group of mobs - he should use those - but give the pet time to get a bit of aggro before casting the 2nd one of these to minimize chances of pulling aggro from the off mobs.</P> <P>Hope this helps (and makes sense to you).</P> <P>Boils down to this:  Air Pet is awesome in groups with a tank - I love my air pet - but in duos without a tank the Conjurer (or other toon) is going to pull aggro alot.  Some prefer air pets even when soloing/duoing, and I respect that - DPS is far superior - but given the aggro problem you mention I think the "patient" earth pet (with defensive buff) strategy works best.  Just my 2c.</P> <P>J Wellington Wells, L52 Conjurer, Steamfont Server</P><p>Message Edited by Raybourne on <span class=date_text>11-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:35 PM</span>

[Zachatan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raybourne wrote:<BR> <P>Personally, in such a duo circumstances, I typically do not use my air pet - but rather my earth (tank) pet.  The air pet does not have taunts while the earth pets hold aggro very nicely while I dot and nuke away.  One caveat:  my earth pet has tended to be Adept III and I've consistently chosen defensive buffs when going for my Master II's - because I solo a ton.  Even without that level of spell, though, I think that the earth pet and defensive buff would be the desirable combo in a duo with a Templar - and in fact I found in Zek with a healer partner we ruled (well, as long as we weren't stupid about our targets).</P> <P>As the healer on hand, you'll be able to heal the pet (adding to the Conjurer's pet healing) just as you would a PC tank.  DPS will suffer a bit, but you'll win almost invariably if you pick your targets wisely - and blue +++ heroics should be easily doable (heck, I was able to solo them at that level - after the revamp).  Against solo mobs, have the conjurer get behind the mob and send in his water and fire dumb pets and dot the heck out of the mob in order to maximize DPS - then nuke (and heal the pet) at will.  With grouped mobs, similar strategy will work, as the earth pet will be able to gain aggro on a group (more advice on that is all over this board).  The conjurer has 2 lines of green (encounter-limited) aoe spell lines that can be cast against the group of mobs - he should use those - but give the pet time to get a bit of aggro before casting the 2nd one of these to minimize chances of pulling aggro from the off mobs.</P> <P>Hope this helps (and makes sense to you).</P> <P>Boils down to this:  Air Pet is awesome in groups with a tank - I love my air pet - but in duos without a tank the Conjurer (or other toon) is going to pull aggro alot.  Some prefer air pets even when soloing/duoing, and I respect that - DPS is far superior - but given the aggro problem you mention I think the "patient" earth pet (with defensive buff) strategy works best.  Just my 2c.</P> <P>J Wellington Wells, L52 Conjurer, Steamfont Server</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>i agree... Air pet is put to more use when not tanking... though they can tank al ittle... with a templar/Conjurer combo... Earth pet all the way... Yes the air pet does more dmg... but the earth pet can take a beating while conjurer dish out a ton of dmg and you will be less likly to have to worry about taunting off agro... cause the pet has a ton of HP... now if the pet does die... there is a couple of things he can do... first off... the Conjurer have a 3 hit reduce hate spell called stonskin... this is great for him to transfer agro... next... if the conjurer is a gnome there is another Race trait that allows him to remove almost 1000 hate from the list when cast on a creature... other then that once the pet dies... good luck pulling agro off.. if it looks like the pet might die... Start rooting stuning... keep the mob away from conjurer as long as you can...</P> <P> </P> <P>Just my 2 cents </P>

[Ellestil]

<P>If you continue to duo white con ^^^ mobs or higher, you are better off with the earth pet by far. Sure he does less damage, but allows for you and hubbie to pile on more damage without drawing aggro. If you don't mind going with lesser mobs, say a white con ^^ or a green ^^^, the air pet may do fine. Earth pet, however, benefits the most from your healer buffs. He doesn't have any natural mitigation vs white or higher con mobs. He does have natural mitigation vs blue or lower con mobs. This is regardless of up or down arrows. So a blue ^^^ with your healer buffs on would be a much safer and easier fight with the tank pet out.</P> <P>Make sure the conj knows not to only rely on your heals to keep the pet alive, he must use his stuns as well to offset damage. Lucky for us, our stuns also damage the mob, so this doesn't mean we have to stop doing damage. If the pet is going to die, and minion's intervention isn't available, simply root the mob and stop attacking. While the mob is rooted, have the conj summon a new pet ( preferably air this time if the mob is nearly dead-you need some fast damage this time to finish it off -if mob is not near dead, summon earth again ). Now this is key. Before breaking root, you must allow the new pet some time to gain aggro again. The best way to do this is to time a stun to land ( like harden, petrify, calcify ) right before the pet is sent in and breaks the root. Now both of you back up from the pet and mob. In most cases, the pet has time to regain aggro, and you can slowly start attacking again. This tactic can also be used if you the healer get aggro and you need for the pet to get it back.</P> <P>Hope that helps.</P> <P> </P> <P>Ellestil 60 Conjurer Najena--Shadow Syndicate</P> <p>Message Edited by Ellestil on <span class=date_text>11-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:09 AM</span>

[Xalmat]

Earth pet has, by far, better aggro generation than Air pet. Plus it has the hit points to soak up high damage hits that rip through the Air pet.

[Redorio]

<P>-Damage Shield spell on pet adds damage and aggro to the pet</P> <P>-Fire seed line adds damage and aggro to the pet, plus on multiple mob encounters it can cuase detonations across the group for massive aggro and damage. Chain detonations are hsytericlaly funny, hehe.</P> <P>-Templat buffs used on tanks, like Redoubt etc, again help the pet and boost its aggro (high attack skills = more damage = more hate)</P> <P>If doing easy mobs, use earth pet with OFFENCE stance, mobs will die much faster. When doign named or herocis (certainly blue or high green heroics) you should use defence stance. The point at which the offence buff is better than the defence buff is tricky, quality of the pet and both your buffs will affect this as well as mob con.  As a healer you will get a good fell for the damage, try out different mobs and get a feel for this.</P> <P>You can easily toggle between offence and defence buffs as need <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P>

[Nari]

Thanks everyone.  These are great tips.  Thanks for using small words so that dwarven templars can understand them.  We'll give it a try and then get some good ol' fashioned revenge on that heroic mob. Thanks again. *runs off to Zek* <div></div>

[GSOO]

Hear is a suggestion, since I feel i can add it as my main is the templar, and have worked with mages utilizing the pet as tanks. Have him use defensive posture. The pet in this case is the tank (meat shield). I would prefer the earth based pets as well instead of the air pet. I would hold off on any damage until the mob is 80% down if using the air pet. The earth pet you can wait till the mob at 90% health. Have the hubby start his nukes stiffles dots, and other damage spells he has. Your job is to put reactives up on the pet and throw heals when you can. Hubby also is the back up healer as well. Both of you should be able to take out white con Heroic or maybe even a little higher if you are working well together. The main purpose of the pet is to keep aggro. The only way the air pet has  for aggro is damage. Earth also has good taunts. The monkey at 38 has the grinning sheet eating smile that really upsets the mobs <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Remember also the double F key will get the hubby pet and toggle the hubby. If hubby second position F2 to target hubby, then another F2 to target pet. If you want to make hubby feel like he needs you...just simple "fizzle" a heal if he needs to die <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Jeradim]

<DIV>Everyone has made excellent suggestions, just want to add a couple things...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cast these Buffs on pet: </DIV> <DIV>Sacred (pious) redoubt </DIV> <DIV>Vigilant..something....</DIV> <DIV>Glory of combat.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You should still have one concentration slot free (assuming Valor/Symbol is on you too) which I usually use to put a sacred/pious redoubt on the conjurer as well.</DIV> <DIV>The extra hps help when he does pull aggro.  Glory of Combat is great on the air pet in offensive stance and should allow you to take some slightly tougher mobs than you otherwise could.  I find he keeps aggro well enough as long as I'm not totally spamming the dps.  I have to agree that tank pet is the way to go for the tougher stuff though.  Air can take a blue ^^^ at the absolute most with just the templar healing him, depending on gear/spell quality.  I don't like using the air pet against ^^^'s as a general rule though unless they're green, otherwise I have to spam heals just to keep pet alive.  Tank pet is just so much more comfortable in those situations, the massive hps add a nice buffer which allows you to slow down on the healing and get some other debuffs in.  I always have mark of X (princes, kings etc) and involuntary healer on the mobs too as that helps with healing.  Even with tank pet though even con heroics are going to be pretty tough.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Other posters have mentioned the stuns/stifles of the conjurer.  He should definitely be using those every chance he gets, but templars also get a stun called Prostrate.  I like to alternate between my spells (harden/shattered earth) and prostrate.  Between the three of those you can keep a dmg mitigation spell on the mob almost all the time.  If the pet is about to bite it, there's minions's intervention for the conjurer to possibly save it, or there's salvation which is a very similar spell that templars get.  You can cast that on the conjurer too if he's in trouble.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I usually only pull aggro intentionally.  If I'm using air pet going against a group of mobs I'll just AoE the bejebus out of them while they beat on me and air pet takes them down.  Tank pet in defensive I never pull aggro against single targets, but our AoE DPS is so sick (especially the new version of the Shattered line and quake line) that I can pull aggro against grouped mobs if I'm not careful.  We also get aggro transferred to us after swarm pets die and that can be quite significant so you have to be ready for that.  If a regular pet dies...good luck taking aggro off the conjurer...just try to keep him alive while he casts another pet.  That's a good time for him to use root.  Another good time is to separate the toughest mob out of a group so you can take out the easy ones.  Almost every other time is a bad time for root as it generates a HUGE amount of aggro.  He definitely should not be using it in a regular fight against mobs that you are going toe to toe with anyway.</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN>  <P>Message Edited by Jeradim on <SPAN class=date_text>11-23-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:42 PM</SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text><SPAN class=time_text>Just noticed your lvl - you may not have some of the spells I mentioned yet.</SPAN></SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Jeradim on <span class=date_text>11-23-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:42 PM</span>

[GSOO]

Actually let me add one addition being the Templar/Conj here. Have your hubby target using the tab key the smallest one in the group, Assist the pet...cast your on death group heal. If you are doing heroics, work on the lowest ones up...that maximizes your self healing. The reactive on death heals do about 300hp each on in group for about 50 mana spent. It will take some time to perfect a system, but I think that combo is a very lethal group.

[GuardianKing]

If you want more DPS i'm sure you can /OOC for a DPS class. That's what me and my Duo partner do. Constantly getting that ranger or Wizard/warlock LFG anything to get that extra Umph. <div></div>

[Nari]

Thanks everyone! I took all of your suggestions and we were easily victorious in the encounter that I mentioned (and many more afterwards.) The earth pet at adept 3 made a big difference.  I have also been more attentive with my fate line, so healing has been pretty easy.  This of course leads us to find nastier trouble to get into, but thank you all so much. <div></div>

[Loral]

<DIV>Continue looking carefully at your spells and his. You never know when a spark of imagination will hit you, and you will find a new way to use a spell combination. With enough practice, you can probably all use your stuns/stifle available to keep very big mobs locked down for a long time, while pets+DoTs+Reactives continue doing their work. Develop your own strategies, and continually improve them to adapt to various situations. A Conjuror is a very versatile partner, take full advantage of it.</DIV>

[Troga]

i can only agree with the above suggestion about the earth pet. i duo since lvl 29 to 54 with my templar ton. i ve read some of u suggest some stuff ah conjuror can do when the pet goes down. there is far better utility to give the conjuror time to resummone his pet. use the templars mezz spells(harmony line) to mezz/pacify the mob...when the mezz/pacify runs off  use the templar stun ...in 1 sec after the stun runs out u be able to remezz/pacify the mob. the conjuror will summone his pet easy with this strats withouth the need of root. used it a tausend times vs nameds, saved me a lot of the times <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> for the mitigation i can only say get the templar buffs on adept 3(as 2nd priority after heals ofc), the conjurors tank pet should be always adept 3 if u keep duoing all the way up to 60 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. with your hp/mitigation buffs the pet will be a tanking monster and u ll be supprised how much it be able to tank withouth loosing agro. this combo rocks, my templar dont know what to do with her power only in long fights against nameds shes(well and ofc if u kill 3 lvls above you, blue con heroics / green tooo easy) running out of power. the conjuror is always oop because the main dps comes from him <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> regards. <div></div>

[Loral]

<P>If your Templar doesn't know what to do with her power, you definitely need to tackle bigger stuff :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>Good point on upgrades. In order of priority, I would go for tank pet, defensive stance, single reactive, single big heal, group reactive, single small heal, then the various Templar debuff/buffs according to what is available to you. Once that is settled, switch back to conjuror with the Shield line, the Seed line, the Geotic line (the group buff that gives defense), then damage spells and rest of Templar spells.</P>

[Nari]

That is a great list, thanks! I do need to update the group spell that I just got. It is good to know what updates for the conjuror would most benefit our duo and in what order. Yeah, we have started fighting bigger things, hehe.  Thanks again. <div></div>

[Loral]

<P>Take my list with a grain of salt, and adapt it to your particular situation and playstyle and the kind of mobs you tackle. That would be my personnal progression knowing my wife's playstyle combined to mine. She is a Mystic, not a Templar, thus the vagueness of the Templar's part. I don't really know what kind of indirect healing/debuff/buff they get. Also, if your Templar doesn't really uses her debuffs, (by lack of time or lazyness) you can skip that part and jump directly to Shield, Seed and other DPS spells. </P> <P>Shield and Seed will help, beiing powerless DPS and free aggro to the pet, althou Adept1 version can do a very acceptable job. </P> <P>I guess the real Ad3 upgrade list can stop after the Templar's various heal spells. The rest would be gravy. Do not forget to take into account that you will both get Master2 upgrades choices too.</P>