Aqueous Hunters , summons 2 pets (as it says in the description) or a dot with a flashy graphic?

[wullailhuit]

Posted this in the wrong forum , so re-posted it here...The title says it all reallyAqueous Hunters , summons 2 pets (as it says in the description) or a dot with a flashy graphic? Devs PLEASE decide.If they are pets , then the spell should NOT be resisted (Stops the pets being summoned , since when have mobs been able to stop us summoning a pet while not actually hitting us?)If it's just a DoT with a flashy graphic , then the spell 'pets' should NOT be able to be killed by the mob being hit by the DoT.At the moment we have the worst of both worlds , a pet that can be 'resisted' from being summoned and a DoT that can be 'killed'.Someone up there PLEASE make up your mind which this spell is and change it appropriately.

[Ishbu]

Its a dot with a flashy graphic.  All hate gained by those fish (can be a lot in some cases) is credited to you.  Big downside is that hte fish can be killed.

[Blitzrain]

<DIV>It is unfortunate they can be resisted.  But the Adept3 and Master versions of this spell do really nice damage, some excellent scaling up on upgrades for this.   This spell does cause some wicked hate though if you solo (another example of it not being a pet spell), you really have to be careful managing aggro.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Blitzrain on <span class=date_text>03-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:55 AM</span>

[KingBald]

<P>My hunters adept 3 have been resisted just once so far in two days of using it since I dinged, and that was on a grey con ^^ beetle that I wanted to test it on.  Since then, many named ^^ quest mobs and normal roamers and a myriad white/yellow solo mobs and not one resist.  So the spell's apprentice/adept level may make a difference on that.</P> <P>You have to think of the spell as a whole when critiqueing it for flaws.  The spell is a fancy DoT with advantages and disadvantages that SHOULD even each other out.  But on this spell the advantages FAR outwiegh the disadvantages IMHO.</P> <P>Advantages:</P> <UL> <LI>Longest duration (3 min) of any DoT</LI> <LI>Each fish can proc Fireseed line</LI> <LI>By far highest total damage per mana of any spell we have</LI> <LI>Can be positioned for maximum effect (rear attacks)</LI></UL> <DIV>Disadvantages:</DIV> <UL> <LI>Resistable (normal for all damage spells)</LI> <LI>Can be dispelled via damage taken</LI> <LI>Can easily generate more hate than pet can compensate for</LI></UL> <DIV>All in all no complaints here <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Revri]

Well, one difference from this spell and a DOT.. the fish don't always all aggro on the intended target. If you are fighting a 2 mob solo encounter, and have a mob rooted between you and a mob your pet is fighting, and cast hunters on the farther mob.. some or all of the fishies will start fighting the closer mob.. Yesterday i had the shark and one fish one the wolf my pet was fighting and one little fishy on the pup i was kiting around.. the pup actually died from the fire seed procs.. =)

[StaticLex]

<DIV>Aqeous Hunters should be unresistable.  The fish already can miss on their attacks so an unresistable version of the spell is hardly unbalanced.  As opposed to a normal dot that can be resisted but once it's on, it's on for good.</DIV>

[YanariiFV]

<DIV>The fish also die way too easily... one or two barrages/ripostes and bubye fish...</DIV><p>Message Edited by YanariiFV on <span class=date_text>03-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:16 AM</span>

[Thmy]

<DIV>>>Each fish can proc Fireseed line <<</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>yes, but do't you need to re-cast  fire seed  again after casting the fish ?</DIV> <DIV>if so then even more hate agrro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do  like this spell - I am guessing the adept-3 version gives the Sharks ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Blitzrain]

<DIV>It's not necessary to recast fireseed after casting aq. hunters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Adept3 gives the shark, Master 1 gives an additional fish on top of the shark.</DIV>

[Ze]

Can anyone link a pic of waht the aqua hunter pets look like <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[StaticLex]

<DIV>They look like a pair of bass, it's incredibly lame.</DIV><p>Message Edited by StaticLex on <span class=date_text>03-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:53 AM</span>

[Triyton]

<DIV>I believe this and some other pet pictures are being fixed up (unless that was the last patch).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't have this spell yet, but from the discussion I can see some advantages you haven't mentioned yet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If it were a "real pet", you could only have one pet at a time and it would replace your previous pet.  You wouldn't want that.</DIV> <DIV>Unlike a DoT, your opponent spends it's time fighting the fish instead of you, which you wouldn't want.  Or for that matter instead of fighting your "real pet", which helps keep it alive.  This may eventually have a downside but that has been covered.</DIV>

[YanariiFV]

<DIV>I'm finding these fish none too special or exciting as they were represented...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They are 4 levels below us and have 2 down arrows on them, making them pretty weak/low on the hp's (just Adept I version here)...  </DIV> <DIV>They get Melee damage from ripostes/barrages so you have to get the mob turned somehow if you want them to last through most/the whole of the fight.  </DIV> <DIV>They can be resisted (which is mindboggling).  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They do crushing damage only as opposed to some type of magic damage like the pets do - we can debuff AC with just 1 spell, and it's not really helpful seeing as we don't know how long the AC-reduction vs Melee attack lasts - spell says it goes into effect after the DoT has worn off - but how long for?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Other then that the graphics bug the caster or the mob or both in making them 'disappear' from view lest they are being outlined by spellcasts...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All in all, disappointing...</DIV>

[Revri]

<DIV>Heres a quick pic i threw on my FTP of the hunters.. 2 bass and a sharkie..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://revrick.net/Home/Hunters.jpg" target=_blank>http://revrick.net/Home/Hunters.jpg</A></DIV>

[Blitzrain]

I will say that Adept3 is really needed for this spell....just a massive upgrade over AdeptI.  The shark cons white instead of green like the fish, and it hits the mob (especially if its a high con) MUCH more consistantly and harder.

[Triyton]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> YanariiFV wrote:<BR> <DIV>I'm finding these fish none too special or exciting as they were represented...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They are 4 levels below us and have 2 down arrows on them, making them pretty weak/low on the hp's (just Adept I version here)...  </DIV> <DIV>They get Melee damage from ripostes/barrages so you have to get the mob turned somehow if you want them to last through most/the whole of the fight.  </DIV> <DIV>They can be resisted (which is mindboggling).  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They do crushing damage only as opposed to some type of magic damage like the pets do - we can debuff AC with just 1 spell, and it's not really helpful seeing as we don't know how long the AC-reduction vs Melee attack lasts - spell says it goes into effect after the DoT has worn off - but how long for?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Other then that the graphics bug the caster or the mob or both in making them 'disappear' from view lest they are being outlined by spellcasts...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All in all, disappointing...</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Sounds like they would be better when used in group combat.  There the Main Tank will have the mob turned away, and probably someone will have a spell that reduces the mob AC, not to mention other mob debuffs.</P> <P><BR> </P>

[KingBald]

<P>Yes, Adept 3 is the only way to go for this spell, that alpha shark makes all the difference.</P> <P>For 100 or so mana I cant imagine a better single spell for us to use, the pets if positioned well will be relatively safe from barrages or AE, plus on tougher mobs I will cast my ward on the alpha.</P> <P>What I do is put the Veteran on the mob then strafe around to the rear and when the pet is sufficiently damaged I cast the Hunters and then I sit back and watch.  Absolutely no further casting necessary (this is on yellow con solo mobs).  Whereas without Hunters I am stacking 3 DoTs, running through my HOs, and healing pet, this one spell is enough DPS to take down the mob with fireseed/infernus seed procs and raw damage.</P> <P>Most ppl havent seen them in action.  The trio of Hunters each attack once every 2 seconds, at lvl 40 the two smaller fish hitting a yellow con solo mob for 25-35 and the alpha hitting for 50-70, and with 3 attacks per every 2 second "tick" my fireseed display is like a fireworks show most times.</P> <P>Is the App IV or Adept I version useful?  I would say if you use proper setup procedures (casting from rear of mob) and have adept level fireseed/infernus, I would say it was worth casting every time it is up (for me once every other solo mob).  Even with two fish it will MORE than outdamage any other single spell you could cast, barring an unfortunate barrage taking them out too early.</P> <P>Yes my fish get taken out now and again but all that does is make me do my normal spell routine to take the mob out, only lost 100 mana.  The benifit is that when they do last (which is 90% of the time) I have beaten a tough solo mob with *1* spell cast.</P> <P> </P>

[Xlap]

yes, adept3 is AMAZING...i lub me fishies! i had adept3 hunters waiting in my bags when i made 38 so i never had to use the lower levels...ive gotten resisted once using it and that was against a red mob.

[XtremSummo]

<P>Why does it have to be <EM>either</EM> a Standard Pet like the others <EM>or</EM> a DoT? Why can't it just be what it is? - a special type of targettable pet, that can be resisted. As with absolutely any spell in the game, there's pros and cons to what it does. But it's its own beast - it isn't a standard pet or a DoT... it's Aqueous Hunters.</P> <P>You might say that you think it's useless and ask for it to be changed within its design parameters... though that'd be rather foolish given that it's one of the better spells in the Conjurer's arsenal. But taking something that isn't a DoT or a normal pet, then saying that it should be one of the two and so needs fixing is... well a little bizarre. Quite apart from anything else.. how far do you go to fit the spell into the mould you're trying to force onto it?</P> <P>If you force it to be a standard pet, then do you increase the casting time in line with the other pets? Do you make it so that you have to control it with commands? Do you make it targettable and buffable with Provocation? Do you allow essence shift on it? etc.. in which case what you're asking for is to have two pets up at the same time.</P> <P>If you force it into the mould of a DoT, do you reduce its duration to be like our other dots? Do you lose its ability to take aggro? Do you put it on the same timer as some of the other DoTs? etc</P> <P>It's not a standard pet and it's not a DoT. It's a spell you cast on a target, that causes the target to be attacked by a bunch of entities thus damaging the target. Start from there and then decide whether you think it's a good spell or not - many high level conjurers put it second on their Adept3 upgrade list after the Earth pet though, so it must have something going for it.</P> <P>X</P> <P> </P>

[Jgok]

I am already looking to get the adept3 version of this spell... even before I worry about adept3 Veteran (have adept1 veteran in the bank, so no worries there). Simply put, this spell is amazing dps per mana when properly used, and is well worth the cost, even given its disadvantages.