survivability question from a coercer newb

[Ganeden]

<DIV>Hey guys, I've been thinking for awhile about rolling a new char and I've narrowed  it down to a few classes, one of which is the coercer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My main (56 bruiser) is an awesome soloer and is in the top few classes (i think so atleast) in terms of survivability/soloing. With feign death and a 50% heal hunting named mobs and getting deep into dungeons is no problem.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't think I could have fun playing another class where I couldn't get into dungeons and hunt heroics and challenge myself. This is what I've had in mind when looking at other classes for an alt.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After looking over the faq and posts in here it's ovbious once you have sufficient skill and level you can hunt named mobs/heroics and solo pretty effectively. But I can't find anythying relating to being able to get deep into dungeons. My main question is can you do just that? I know you'll have to eat deaths if you get to many resists (happens all too much when my feign fails a couple times in a row) and other things like that and that stuff wont bother me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I play at odd times and have to/want to solo alot, and not being able to get into dungeons by myself would take alot of fun from the game.  Would an illusionist be any better at this? Also, this is probably a stupid question, but do you get invis? (dont flog me, i've never played a mage! :smileyvery-happy: )</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>thanks in advance</DIV>

[Ni'ka]

<P>I may not be the best to answer, but I'll say what I've heard and seen so far.</P> <P> </P> <P>Coercer are able to get very far, simply because we can charm a mob, and have the others kill it so much faster than any other class just burning down each mob individually.  However, you don't get any rewards for this, or so I hear, so it can be detrimental, unless mob is trash in the first place.</P> <P>I've been challenging myself recently, was killing red cons, and charming orange cons, killing ^^ heroics 5 levels above me with ease (granted...a few bad turns and I was in the dust, but...lol)</P> <P> </P> <P>I think coercer is one of the best for getting anywhere they want and taking on just about anything, but thats mainly what I've heard, and seen from my limited experience</P>

[Aranieq]

<P>Coercer is great for solo or group but not for the faint of heart.</P> <P>Theres plenty of posts here with tips and tricks of the trade but a lvl 30 coercer is a whole different animal from a 70 coercer.</P> <P>At 70 we are as slippery as a scout if u learn it well and can get to the bottom of any dungeon we need, to solo that quest mob but it wont be a quick FD run like a bruiser.  To solo a coercer well at the T6+ requires a grasp on all of our major skillsets not just relying on charm or stuns or mezz or any of our more creative "tricks"... </P> <P>We're a controll class we win by controlling whatever encounter we put ourselves into and that requires a command and knowledge of 70 levels of death lessons and hours of frustration trying to solo a named you know u can do but just keep missing it... We are not for the faint of heart it's not a good "hobby" class IMO, but played well we can do about any content in any role from tank to dps to crowd control.</P> <P> </P>

[Ganeden]

<P>Thanks for the advice guys, I ended up making my coercer tonight.</P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aranieq wrote:<BR> <P>We are not for the faint of heart it's not a good "hobby" class IMO, but played well we can do about any content in any role from tank to dps to crowd control.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> </P> <P>I don't really make many alts so this isn't a FOTM char for me. Ive got alot of experience with mmos in general so I'm sure I can eventually learn the skills..</P>

[Jesdyr]

Just use your head and think about what skills you have and what they do. Being a coercer is not as hard as everyone seems to make it out to be. You just need to ALWAYS pay attention to what is going on and expect the worst from any battle (which means chain resists and charm breaking). Knowing when to cut and run is important, but not all that much. Death is not that big of a deal in this game so sometimes just attempting to hold your ground isnt a bad idea. The one thing that really gets me is grouping with others. So far it seems most people in EQ2 have never heard of crowd control. This was always a very important part of many other MMOGs I have played, yet here most people dont seem to use it much. Maybe this will change once I get to higher levels. Overall I think the class is extremely fun to play. You just have to be able to laugh while getting killed <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Aranieq]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JesDer wrote:<BR>Just use your head and think about what skills you have and what they do. <BR><BR>Being a coercer is not as hard as everyone seems to make it out to be. You just need to ALWAYS pay attention to what is going on and expect the worst from any battle (which means chain resists and charm breaking). Knowing when to cut and run is important, but not all that much. Death is not that big of a deal in this game so sometimes just attempting to hold your ground isnt a bad idea.<BR><BR>The one thing that really gets me is grouping with others. <STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>So far it seems most people in EQ2 have never heard of crowd control.</FONT></STRONG> This was always a very important part of many other MMOGs I have played, yet here most people dont seem to use it much. Maybe this will change once I get to higher levels.<BR><BR><BR>Overall I think the class is extremely fun to play. You just have to be able to laugh while getting killed <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I common mistake, or oversight is better, is that crowd controll is mezz and mezz only... some are enlightened enough to open that up to stuns but the truth is it's any controll ability... Stun, Stiffle, Daze, Mezz, Charm, Root, Snare, Fear, Amnesia, Phase, teleport ect ect... people use crowd controll a lot in EQ2 it's just not majority Mezz. And as a coercer our strenghts are in Stuns and other non-mezz Controlls over Mezz as a general rule.  <BR>

[Chog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aranieq wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>I common mistake, or oversight is better, is that crowd controll is mezz and mezz only... some are enlightened enough to open that up to stuns but the truth is it's any controll ability... Stun, Stiffle, Daze, Mezz, Charm, Root, Snare, Fear, Amnesia, Phase, teleport ect ect... people use crowd controll a lot in EQ2 it's just not majority Mezz. And as a coercer our strenghts are in Stuns and other non-mezz Controlls over Mezz as a general rule.  <BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Reminds me of a group I was in a couple of days ago.  Was told by the group members (Ok, the MT) not to Mez anything, he figured if anybody but the MT recieved agro that person needs to get smacked around.  My reply was: I am a Coercer, why would I mez?  </P> <P>Of course the group thought I was joking; however, with all of the different types of control we have Mez should be one of the last abilities used in a decent or better group.  Only when the fecal matter hits the fan should the mez be brought out, or right before the fan is hit.  Of course some zones are a lot easier with mez then without (MM Catacombs).  </P>

[JackAll]

<P>When you are really in the [I cannot control my vocabulary] dont forget that mezz lasts longer than /camp :p</P> <P>/yell</P> <P>Mezz</P> <P>invis</P> <P>/camp</P> <P> </P> <P>It works great when dealing with mobs that cant be charmed</P>

[Korpo]

^^Mez also lasts longer than CotO takes to cast.Another tactic I've used when I'm getting beaten on by a mob:<ol><li>Mez</li><li>Run like a girl</li><li>Zone</li></ol><div></div>

[Jesdyr]

<blockquote><hr>Aranieq wrote:<div></div> I common mistake, or oversight is better, is that crowd controll is mezz and mezz only... some are enlightened enough to open that up to stuns but the truth is it's any controll ability... Stun, Stiffle, Daze, Mezz, Charm, Root, Snare, Fear, Amnesia, Phase, teleport ect ect... people use crowd controll a lot in EQ2 it's just not majority Mezz. And as a coercer our strenghts are in Stuns and other non-mezz Controlls over Mezz as a general rule.  <hr></blockquote> Perhaps I was a little too general in my statement. You are right all of that is crowd control and I am sure there are others (running off aggro was one of my fav tactics in DAoC as a bard when mezzes wouldnt stick). Each form has it's use and coercers have lots of it. When solo I use every bit of it. when in a grouped alot of it goes to waste. Like I said .. I am still a lower level (35). Since the player population in the lower levels is fairly small, the large groups are rare. And in the event I am in a full group, many times the others are mentor'd down and destroy everything quickly anyway. <div></div>

[Aranieq]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> korpo53 wrote:<BR>^^<BR><BR>Mez also lasts longer than CotO takes to cast.<BR><BR>Another tactic I've used when I'm getting beaten on by a mob:<BR> <OL> <LI>Mez</LI> <LI>Run like an <STRIKE>girl</STRIKE> <STRIKE>Ratonga</STRIKE> Illusionist</LI> <LI>Zone</LI></OL> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I fixed it for you =)

[Ganeden]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JackAll wrote:<BR> <P>When you are really in the [I cannot control my vocabulary] dont forget that mezz lasts longer than /camp :p</P> <P>/yell</P> <P>Mezz</P> <P>invis</P> <P>/camp</P> <P> </P> <P>It works great when dealing with mobs that cant be charmed</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>This is good advice, I hadn't thought of it, thanks</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Thanks to lots of playtime and some collection quests I'm now 24 and loving the class. My only complaint is how much our charm spells cost, I bought the level 33 master charm for a little bit more then I can really afford <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. It seems poeple see the charm effect on the spell and think 'OOHHH, CHARM = PLATZ'</P>

[Wrapye]

<div><blockquote><hr>Ganeden wrote:<div></div><p>Thanks to lots of playtime and some collection quests I'm now 24 and loving the class. My only complaint is how much our charm spells cost, I bought the level 33 master charm for a little bit more then I can really afford <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. It seems poeple see the charm effect on the spell and think 'OOHHH, CHARM = PLATZ'</p><hr></blockquote>Actually it is from people who know that for coercers master 1 >>>> adept 3, much more so than any other spell out there.  You <i>want</i> master 1 charm if you intend to charm mobs on a regular basis.  If you have a choice of using Master 1 of a low level charm and Adept 3 of a high level, you will want to use the higher <i>quality</i> one because it is just that much better.</div>

[TheSpin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> sacremon wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ganeden wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Thanks to lots of playtime and some collection quests I'm now 24 and loving the class. My only complaint is how much our charm spells cost, I bought the level 33 master charm for a little bit more then I can really afford <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. It seems poeple see the charm effect on the spell and think 'OOHHH, CHARM = PLATZ'</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Actually it is from people who know that for coercers master 1 >>>> adept 3, much more so than any other spell out there.  You <I>want</I> master 1 charm if you intend to charm mobs on a regular basis.  If you have a choice of using Master 1 of a low level charm and Adept 3 of a high level, you will want to use the higher <I>quality</I> one because it is just that much better.<BR><BR><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I'm also new to the class. I asked around for some advice and this was one of the most important things they told me.  Every charm starting at level 20 has no level cap on the mob it can charm so if you get any 20+ charm up to master quality, that's the only charm you need until you get a higher level charm up to master.