Spell resists, charm resists

[Bigmik22]

<DIV>Two things bother me:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. Which aa setup is best for preventing resists?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>a) KoS wis line (+ subjugation, fucus skills)</DIV> <DIV>b) EoF resists line (better, more resist debuffs)</DIV> <DIV>c) none = focus on mezzing and debuffing resistances</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. Does the charm check the spell's resist mod, and skills together (per tick)? Ie. does that mean that the higher the subjugation the smaller chance of breaking charm?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If it would be so, the wis line would be extremely important in holding the charm on yellow/red mobs</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>any ideas?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BigMik</DIV><p>Message Edited by Bigmik22 on <span class=date_text>01-26-2007</span> <span class=time_text>03:09 AM</span>

[tekkerdray]

I'm very interested too. A lot of Resist with Root,Mezz also...Please, powerfull coercers, we need your help !! <span>:smileyhappy:</span><div></div>

[Ni'ka]

<DIV>I'm by now means a powerful or very experienced coercer, but I have started going down the KoS line with the +subj, and I must say I have noticed a huge difference in resist rates already.  With my gear and the AA, I have +15 subj, and I have my subjugation skills VERY rarely resisted by an even level mob.  I have seen some resists on things 4-5 levels higher than me, but thats to be expected.  The only time I had any chain resists (11 in a row, lol) was taking down a red con even level mob the other night. (9 levels higher than me).  Some people say adding subj does nothing, but I've talked to a 70th coercers and they swear it does help.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I haven't yet been able to get into the EoF lines with the resists, but I'm going to as soon as I finish adding my +subj skill.</DIV>

[Ni'ka]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bigmik22 wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. Does the charm check the spell's resist mod, and skills together (per tick)? Ie. does that mean that the higher the subjugation the smaller chance of breaking charm?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If it would be so, the wis line would be extremely important in holding the charm on yellow/red mobs</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>any ideas?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BigMik</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Bigmik22 on <SPAN class=date_text>01-26-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:09 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>From what I understand, every 30 sec or so the charm has a chance to break.  I think that this rate is somwhat of a lower chance that the initial resist mod listed on the spell that changes per spell quality.  The quality of the spell, and the amount of +subj are both extremely important.  Say you're level 20 with 80/105 subj.  You're going to be resisted a lot, and when your charm does stick, it will break fast (unless you have lady luck on your side).  and just to let you know, I can EASILY control ^^ heroics 5 levels above me with my +subj skill and master 1 coercer   <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kardg]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bigmik22 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Two things bother me:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. Which aa setup is best for preventing resists?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>a) KoS wis line (+ subjugation, fucus skills)</DIV> <DIV>b) EoF resists line (better, more resist debuffs)</DIV> <DIV>c) none = focus on mezzing and debuffing resistances</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. Does the charm check the spell's resist mod, and skills together (per tick)? Ie. does that mean that the higher the subjugation the smaller chance of breaking charm?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If it would be so, the wis line would be extremely important in holding the charm on yellow/red mobs</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>any ideas?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BigMik</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Bigmik22 on <SPAN class=date_text>01-26-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:09 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>1 & 2 in your above statement should be your focus as you have already surmised. Point #2. is also correct making your final remark very true: Subjugation is very imporatant. I find I almost never get resisted on my charms or mez with around 410 Subjugation. Try to get as close to the cap as possible and you'll never see a "resist" pop up on a mez or charm.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In the most recent test notes there is a resist tweak coming in that may or may not help us all on current resist levels, which personally I feel are slightly out of line.<BR></DIV>

[tekkerdray]

So if I want the least possible of resist when I root,mezz and charm, what is the good way ?1: Down the Wisdom line in KoS AA.2: Put some points for charm in EoF AA.And in the same time: Buy all spells I can in adept III minimum and try to have the max in the coercer skill.I've good or not ?(Sorry for my bad english)<div></div>

[Kardg]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> tekkerdray wrote:<BR>So if I want the least possible of resist when I root,mezz and charm, what is the good way ?<BR><BR>1: Down the Wisdom line in KoS AA.<BR>2: Put some points for charm in EoF AA.<BR><BR>And in the same time: Buy all spells I can in adept III minimum and try to have the max in the coercer skill.<BR><BR>I've good or not ?<BR><BR>(Sorry for my bad english)<BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, Yes & Yes.<BR>

[tekkerdray]

Ok, thanks Kardgar. It's clear for me, lol<div></div>

[Petgroup]

+Sub does nothing to help resists.Don't believe me? You don't have to.<div></div>

[Kardg]

<DIV>You should make a case with proven resist data to disprove the arguement so that everyone can benefit from testing to verify or discredit the current opinion on + skill. Personally I percieve improvement with the additional subjugation. I percieve less resists and fewer charm breaks. Do I have conclusive proof of this, fraid not. However I've not seen evidence to the contrary.</DIV>

[Petgroup]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Kardgar wrote:<div>You should make a case with proven resist data to disprove the arguement so that everyone can benefit from testing to verify or discredit the current opinion on + skill. Personally I percieve improvement with the additional subjugation. I percieve less resists and fewer charm breaks. Do I have conclusive proof of this, fraid not. However I've not seen evidence to the contrary.</div><hr></blockquote>I go on experience mezzing since day 1 of EQ2.I could spend x amt of hours compliling data to back this up but it would be ignored and not changed till 6 months from now.Before I had 360 Sub, AoE mez and it landed on 0 of 7 mobs.Now I have 420 Sub, AoE mez and it landed on 0 of 7 mobs.Bad luck, conspracy theory? Any way you slice it, Coercer's landing mez on anything yellow+ is completly messed up.All I gotta say is before EoF I could AoE mez a group of red mobs with 350 subj and master AoE mez and it would land on them all (Not saying thats fair). Now since they nerfed it to be 3% easier to resist, im lucky if it lands at all on anything.The next Live Update makes a global change to spell resists. With that LU im getting rid of the Wis line +sub bonus THAT DOES NOTHING.With 8 Points into the +subj + focus AA, you would think I would see a noticeable improvement in mezzing, correct? It feels like i'm mezzing naked with rez effects. Same as it did before.</div><p>Message Edited by nikecmh42 on <span class=date_text>01-26-2007</span> <span class=time_text>01:55 PM</span>

[Kardg]

<DIV>The trouble with that sentiment from my perspective is that I do not see it. Take for instance last night in Nek 3; upon triggering your average shiny trap the Nillschilics (sp) that spawn in groups of four yellow triple ups, I didn't have a single resist in any of the groups. After about four or five of these it tends me to think otherwise about how the skill functions. Heading into Valdoons or other such places that have mostly yellow con mobs, I don't see these percieved resists.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Much like the other side of this arguement I don't have statistical proof, but I do however think that hard facts will get more people interested, arousing community interest in the matter, atleast shines a glimmer of hope that among the sea of issues that are always present, it may have its day in the sun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think we'll both agree that the current system has flaws present and any tweaks or adjustments to correct this problem coming in the next LU is a good thing.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Kardgar on <span class=date_text>01-26-2007</span> <span class=time_text>11:06 AM</span>

[Ni'ka]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kardgar wrote:<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Sorry to hijack thread, but i've been wanting to talk to you again ingame kardgar.  I talked to you a long while back when I started my first coercer (maniacle) who I ended up deleting for this char.  but I did want to talk to you.  I'll try to catch you online sometime.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>/end hijack  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></P>

[Petgroup]

<div><blockquote><hr>Kardgar wrote:<div></div> <div>The trouble with that sentiment from my perspective is that I do not see it. Take for instance last night in Nek 3; upon triggering your average shiny trap the Nillschilics (sp) that spawn in groups of four yellow triple ups, I didn't have a single resist in any of the groups. After about four or five of these it tends me to think otherwise about how the skill functions. Heading into Valdoons or other such places that have mostly yellow con mobs, I don't see these percieved resists.</div> <div> </div> <div>Much like the other side of this arguement I don't have statistical proof, but I do however think that hard facts will get more people interested, arousing community interest in the matter, atleast shines a glimmer of hope that among the sea of issues that are always present, it may have its day in the sun.</div> <div> </div> <div>I think we'll both agree that the current system has flaws present and any tweaks or adjustments to correct this problem coming in the next LU is a good thing.</div><p>Message Edited by Kardgar on <span class="date_text">01-26-2007</span> <span class="time_text">11:06 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I should have specified that this is on raids. Not mezzing Named epics <u>but</u> the adds they have, etc. Such as the birds on 3 princes and some encounters in Emerald Halls.I don't think I have a problem mezzing heroic stuff but when it gets tossed into epic encounters it becomes immune city.Another example. I have 420ish Subj w/o any buffs. I proc the claymore item, thus putting me at the cap of 455 or whatever it is. I cast Ravaged Psyche, the int hex doll (which gets resisted 1% of the time for some unknown reason) and then my single target mez. 4 resists in a row = game over. I debuffed that raid mob add as much as I could and still got owned. I understand a fully debuffed mob means almost no resists but when you are mezzing, its pretty much untouched by anything or else whats the point. Things are not working as intended.</div>

[Lleinen]

<DIV>My Setup :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>4-4 AGI</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>4-4-8 STA</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>4-4-4-5-1 INT</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>CataMind(3) _ Auspex(2) _ SpellSc(2) _ Harmon(5) _ CoercivHeal(1)</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#ffff00>ManaFlow(5) _ XferPoten(5) _ Gorging(5) _ Channel(5) _ ManaWard(1)</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#ffff00>Domin(3) _ Breakdown(5)</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#ffff00>The stuff in yellow, im thinking about changing, but if I did I would do...(see below)</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Honestly Im thinking of dropping the mana ward line, but im not 100% yet.  <BR>The ward really hasnt done jack $hit atm, so Ill prolly end up respecing, and<BR>getting :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Domin(5) _ Breakdown(5) _ MarrPsyc(5) _ Tashian(1)<BR>ManaFlow(5) _ XferPoten(3) _ Gorging(5)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>