How many enchanters do you have in your dayly raid ?

[Evariste]

<DIV>That s all the question.. </DIV>

[Cattastrophy]

<DIV>Normally 1 or 2 Enchanters. We only have 4 total in our guild. 2 of which are new. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We seriously need a Troub though lol.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EDIT: 2 Coercers and 2 Illus total, normally one of each on raids, unless we luck out.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Cattastrophy on <span class=date_text>01-19-2007</span> <span class=time_text>09:55 AM</span>

[Phaze11]

<DIV>2 coercers</DIV>

[Ulrick85]

2 coercers and 1 illu

[Pins]

1 Coercer, 1 Illusionist. That's all we have guilded, that's all we plan to guild for Enchanters.

[Wikod]

<DIV>2 or 3 normally</DIV>

[Korpo]

We generally go with one corky and one illy, but I know of raid guilds that go with up to four total. Not entirely a bad idea, since a chanter will up everyone in the group's DPS by a significant amount, as well as provide a lot of "stamina" for those long fights.<div></div>

[Lleinen]

1 coercer 1 illusionist, sometimes 2 illusionists if a bard doesnt get on

[Roriondesexiest]

<DIV>Usually 2 coercers, lol not many illusionists around on my server.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Only time we don't go with 2 is if I play my dirge.</DIV>

[Petgroup]

3 Coercers and 1 Illusionist. I think we have a majority of the enchanter population on Najena <span>:smileytongue:</span><div></div>

[Encantador]

<P>Anywhere from 1 to 4. 1 coercer and 1 (often 2) illu is most common. In all we could field 3 coercer and 2 illu.</P> <P>Of the raiding guilds we have surely cornered the chanter market.</P> <P> </P>

[Mage-Apprentice]

3chanters

[Aranieq]

<DIV>3 Coercers 1 Illy </DIV> <DIV>          or</DIV> <DIV>2 Coercers 2 Illy</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[brinomsford]

<P>Me and a coercer  part time.</P> <P>Blaa i am a typing master.</P><p>Message Edited by brinomsford on <span class=date_text>01-29-2007</span> <span class=time_text>02:59 AM</span>

[whytakemine]

None, although I'll switch from my assassin to my coercer for certain fights (gnorbl for example).

[Jesdyr]

<blockquote><hr>encanta wrote:<div></div> <p>Of the raiding guilds we have surely cornered the chanter market.</p><hr></blockquote> Are these low numbers good or bad? Is it that Enchanters are just not usefull enough to play, or is it that no one wants to play them ? I am the only coercer in my guild and there are 4 illu (all low level as well, 3 are Alts). <div></div>

[Aranieq]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JesDer wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> encanta wrote:<BR> <P>Of the raiding guilds we have surely cornered the chanter market.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Are these low numbers good or bad? <BR><BR><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>Is it that Enchanters are just not usefull enough to play, or is it that no one wants to play them ?<BR></FONT></STRONG><BR>I am the only coercer in my guild and there are 4 illu (all low level as well, 3 are Alts). <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Most people who get to 70 would prolly say it's the best and they love it but it's getting there.</P> <P>You're not a wizard you have to fight for every inch of the dps you parse on a raid especially if an MT coercer where you can expect a much lower parse than the DPS chanters. Without a core group of grouping friends (ie guildmates ect) leveling a coercer can be lonely as a soloist or frustrating as a PU grouper for some... wich is what kinda makes us special IMO.  </P> <P>There arn't a lot of brigand Mains or dirges as I remeber the last server 70 poll... I think the people who play our class to 70 are ussually ... suited for the lifestyle =) I beleive the Freeport classes are still lower as a whole than qeynos (main toons at least) That's not based on anything more than the last character poll I saw posted and my "feel" on evil/goodie toons.<BR></P>

[Korpo]

<div><blockquote><hr>JesDer wrote:<blockquote><hr>encanta wrote:<div></div> <p>Of the raiding guilds we have surely cornered the chanter market.</p><hr></blockquote> Are these low numbers good or bad? Is it that Enchanters are just not usefull enough to play, or is it that no one wants to play them ? I am the only coercer in my guild and there are 4 illu (all low level as well, 3 are Alts). <div></div><hr></blockquote>Chanters aren't sexy (except for me). They don't put out big DPS numbers, they don't tank, they don't heal... They have the same problems grinding up that classes like bards do, namely trying to find a group in a sea of people looking for a tank, DPS, or healer.</div>

[laddich]

we have 2 coercers, 1 illusionist in guild. Raid Officers put a cap of max 2 chanters per raid as more results in loss of DPS, unless of course special strategy requires more mana regen. 50% of the time 1 is in raid, the other 50% 2.<div></div>

[whytakemine]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JesDer wrote:<BR><BR>Are these low numbers good or bad? <BR><BR>Is it that Enchanters are just not usefull enough to play, or is it that no one wants to play them ?<BR><BR>I am the only coercer in my guild and there are 4 illu (all low level as well, 3 are Alts). <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The original post was about # of chanters in a raid, it sounds like you're just talking about the low percentage of chanters being played?  IMO, it's a low played class for a couple of reasons.  </P> <P>1.  It's not a class that most people are going to pick when they first start playing the game.  Even if they do, a lot of people will give up and try another class before leveling a chanter high enough to really see what they can do.</P> <P>2.  In the vast majority of content in the game, you're better off with another dps than a chanter.  There is very little demand for enchanters (or bards) except in raids.</P> <P>Chanters actually tend to have a medium to high presence in raids, as the above posts show.  </P>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>laddich wrote:we have 2 coercers, 1 illusionist in guild. Raid Officers put a cap of max 2 chanters per raid as more results in loss of DPS, unless of course special strategy requires more mana regen. 50% of the time 1 is in raid, the other 50% 2.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Then obviously if having more chanters in your raid lowers your DPS, your chanters aren't very good and you should push them to doing more DPS than they currently are.

[Aranieq]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinski wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> laddich wrote:<BR>we have 2 coercers, 1 illusionist in guild. Raid Officers put a cap of max 2 chanters per raid as <STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>more results in loss of DPS</FONT></STRONG>, unless of course special strategy requires more mana regen. 50% of the time 1 is in raid, the other 50% 2.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Then obviously if having more chanters in your raid lowers your DPS, your chanters aren't very good and you should push them to doing more DPS than they currently are.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I would have to say there is a flaw in this theory myself.. who are the chanters sitting for?</P> <P>Our primary Illusionist and DPS cocercer are in the top 3-5 parse on their own before adding in their buffs on others... a troub can add serious dps to the raid but our 2/3 dps enchanters out parse the troubs on their own and the MT coercer is about matched with them.</P>

[Korpo]

<div><blockquote><hr>Pinski wrote:<blockquote><hr>laddich wrote:we have 2 coercers, 1 illusionist in guild. Raid Officers put a cap of max 2 chanters per raid as more results in loss of DPS, unless of course special strategy requires more mana regen. 50% of the time 1 is in raid, the other 50% 2.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Then obviously if having more chanters in your raid lowers your DPS, your chanters aren't very good and you should push them to doing more DPS than they currently are.<hr></blockquote>I was in a guild once with a chanter that justified his ~200 DPS because he "wasn't a DPS class". True story.</div>

[Dorein]

I love running into a group of 4 or 5 mobs and scoring 3rd on the parse, or getting to yell at my tank that he needs to figure out how to hold aggro better, cause he's loosin it to a Coercer. We have 1 Coercer 1 Illui most of the time. The Illui is still working on DPS gear so I don't know fully what he's capable of, but I'll parse in the 1400's or higher against certain mobs (the ones in FTH are my new favorites). If I wasn't needed in the MT group and tossed in with a troub on those encounters I'm pretty sure I could add another 400 or more to that. I still enjoy showing up an Assassin or Wizzie every once in a while.

[Harg]

<DIV>Ok, I'm a 70 Coercer, and I consider myself to be a good one.  I am highly technical, I know what my skills are, I use most of them regularly, and I have them upgraded to M1/AD3.  I'm in a raiding guild, and have fabled equipment.  (Plenty of room for improvement there though, as there are a number of reactive equipment procs and various adornments that I have yet to obtain.)  I'm typically slotted in the MT group, as I'm often the only enchanter in the raid.  There's an illusionist and another coercer that are with us the other times.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Given that situation, I don't think I have a snowball's chance of getting near 1400 DPS.  What's the trick I'm missing?  Is it your equipment-based procs, a DPS-centric AA build, or just an execution gap on my part?</DIV>

[TwistedFaith]

DPS is dependant upon everyone else in the raid as well, so 1400 may sound awesome but if your raid is pushing up high dps themselves then the fights arnt lasting that long and everyone's DPS is huge.

[Aranieq]

<DIV>for my parse: (900-1.8k) (I have volatile magic and perpetuality)</DIV> <DIV>I start by sprint power and keeping it to 40% prior to pull (with the bard in my group I have a hard time keeping it down)</DIV> <DIV>On the INC call I cast ManaFlow on the wizard/Warlock/Brigand or SK (a dps power piggy doesnt matter) and beging casting my 2-3 group buffs depending how fast the mob gets there.</DIV> <DIV>By casting the group spells I've triggered my perpetuality to full speed and start off with chronosiphoning(22% spell haste) and begin down the debuffs, I try to keep the perpetuality going by cycling between longer casting AE spells and stroke every 3-4 casts.  20 seconds or so into the fight im fairly LoP but here comes manaflow returning my power to finish off the encounter =)  Besides this early ritual to get the most out of the uder 30% boost and the full speed my gear and spells and buffs do the rest =)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Group make-up is huge.. in th MT group you might or might not have Fury in there for their group int but and perhaps Vim if they love you and you can convince them the templar doesnt need more power, the dirge gives group mele proc (and a spell proc too?)... I am ussually in the DPS group with Troub (group spell proc and single target spell haste/reuse every 3 minutesish) Fury (group INT and Single target in/power pool buff)and sometimes Shadow Knight (shadow Knight gives 100+ int boost proc from Death March and +40 to all skill mods) Get the Illusionists Synergism (600ish spell casting proc mental or magiv damage) When all of my group and my personal int buffs have procd I'm at 160-1160 int.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <UL> <LI>My raid DPS Set-up:</LI> <UL> <LI>Int drink - STA/INT +11</LI> <LI>Int Potion - Execptional Ilixir of Intellect +51 (15 min I pop it whole raid)</LI> <LI>SPELL casting Proc dps Gear: (when you are under 30% power with volatile magic your proc gear is boosted as well) add 30% to all damage for full dps.</LI> <UL> <LI>Breath of Destroyer - 373 mental damage (1.8 proc rate)</LI> <LI>Wand of Second Life - 263 magic damage +71 int proc (1.8 proc rate)</LI> <LI>Mystical Orb of the Invoker - 549 Heat damage (2.0 proc rate)</LI></UL> <LI>damage adornments:</LI> <UL> <LI>Scintilating Occult Stitching - All spell damage +25</LI> <LI>Scintilating Telekenetic Ubiquity - all mental damage +45</LI></UL></UL></UL> <P>As speed casters enchanters own on proc.. even with normailzation.  With normalization it is normailzed from the spells "normal" cast speed so with us having the fastest speed castin we make the most out of proc damage.</P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Dorein]

Well here's how I'm set up:AA linesEnchanterAgi:4,8,4,8,1Sta: 4,4,8Str:1 (always need a lil more strength =P)CoercerCoercion line maxedMana Flow 3ptsClarity 5ptsGorging Thoughts 4pts(still working on this line, will finish this line and then move the rest into a couple of the debuffs)Proc Gear is a must. If it procs, wear it. If it increases your spell damage wear it. Really we're here for buffs and mana regen, with the occasional memwipe and manaflow. Everything else should go into proc gear. Because you've got your proc gear up, and because you've set up perpetuality, every low damage spell you've got does damage. Plus because I've gone after coercive healing to help my healers in the MT group (which they love) I'm getting more procs outta my reactive spells. Now know that 1400 dps is an infrequent encounter, I still break 1k pretty regularly.Some proc gear I currently wear:Bone-Clasped GirdleBracelet of ThuleGriz stickOrb of invokerDamage increase gear:Pani's RobeOrb of the Chosen + Mental damage increase adornmentNow here's the trick: Don't stop casting. I don't care if you have to scratch yourself, keep casting something. If you aren't casting you aren't doing damage. Dots are nothing more than spells that dot untill you can cast em again. Gorging thoughts procs. Spell Scourge procs. Doesn't really matter what you cast on anything. If you have more power than others you do because you are planning on manaflowing your healers. Otherwise you should be oop constantly. Normally with 2 encounters per raid that need mezes where I'm doing nothing other than keeping control of the situation, I'll average a zone wide around 700dps. Give or take. 1400 is still a hard thing to break, and again only happens a couple times a raid, but it's what you should shoot for on multiple mob encounters. If you feel your tank has good group aggro (swashie or something in mt group) then break off him and auspex something that doesn't have it yet. (pretty swift death if he doesn't have aggro, normally won't mess with that unless the current x4 he has is dead and there's like 3 that have been beating on him for the last 2mins).Hope any of that helps man, good luck to you and your raids.Esci, 70 CoercerVigilanceLucan D'Lere

[Dorein]

Oh ya and I'm not talking about 30 second fights man, those your ranger can parse good on, and we're better than rangers =P.Esci, 70 CoercerVigilanceLucan D'Lere

[Aranieq]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Dorein wrote:<BR><BR>Now here's the trick: Don't stop casting.<STRONG> <FONT color=#ffff00>I don't care if you have to scratch yourself, keep casting something. If you aren't casting you aren't doing damage.</FONT></STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00> <STRONG>Dots are nothing more than spells that dot untill you can cast em again</STRONG>.</FONT> Gorging thoughts procs. Spell Scourge procs.</P> <P><BR>Hope any of that helps man, good luck to you and your raids.<BR><BR>Esci, 70 Coercer<BR>Vigilance<BR>Lucan D'Lere<BR></P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>great wat to put this!<BR>Especially with perpetuality if you slow down your casts you've lost the motion and need to start from begining to get it moving again.. and that can make your spells fell like sorcerer incridible slow speed after you've been lightening casting for 3 minutes.  I keep Marred psyche, stroke, Viscious torment,  Gorging thoughts together out of their fast refresh and fast cast so when I'm hovering going omg omg something refresh I know those are good fillers and likely to be up.