Joining the Charming Side [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

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da5idblacksun

01-10-2007, 09:50 PM

My main is a Templar for grouping/raiding so I decided to roll a solo capable toon. I went with Illusionist but by the time I got to level 28 I had done some reading and decided that I wanted him to be a coercer so I'm currently in exile and on my way to the charming side.I like the idea of more risk with charming and the variety of pets. The personae is boring.Just thought I'd share.<div></div>

schmee

01-11-2007, 04:44 PM

/pat on teh back<div></div>

da5idblacksun

01-12-2007, 09:51 PM

I finished my betrayal and have been playing my coercer and I have to say I love it way more than when he was an illusionist. This class seems to offer the most creativity and fun. Also it rocks for groups and I've seen the power it can have solo. Loving the charming side.<div></div>

nithrill

01-13-2007, 02:54 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> da5idblacksun wrote: I finished my betrayal and have been playing my coercer and I have to say I love it way more than when he was an illusionist. This class seems to offer the most creativity and fun. Also it rocks for groups and I've seen the power it can have solo. Loving the charming side. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Welcome <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Cattastrophy

01-15-2007, 11:47 AM

Illus are good solo-ers too. (*gasp!* Yeah I just said that!) Cept we have a lot on them when it comes to where and what we are able to solo. Remember, we are masters of stuns and battle manipulation. If a mob gets in your way, tell it to go kill it's friends! Aaaaahhhh the joys of a Coercer.<div></div>

TuxDave

01-23-2007, 03:52 AM

<DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cattastrophy wrote: Illus are good solo-ers too. (*gasp!* Yeah I just said that!) Cept we have a lot on them when it comes to where and what we are able to solo. Remember, we are masters of stuns and battle manipulation. If a mob gets in your way, tell it to go kill it's friends! Aaaaahhhh the joys of a Coercer. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I dunno, I think the Illusionists are better masters of stun because in the right sequence you can chain stun forever. That's mainly attributed to the smaller recast time on the AE stun. Add the personae and you're chain stunning without trying. </DIV>

Cattastrophy

01-23-2007, 11:59 AM

We are the only ones that get an open AE (not EE) Stun... plus if you have the right AA in Mindbend (5 ticks)... that + Pet + Auspex (with 5 ticks) will kill something nice and fast with out you even lifting a finger. So yeah... I'm gonna stick to my original statement. We are better at stuns. They have more and better mezzes and get the only AE (open) mezz as well. We don't. And if they have more than us... we need to be fixed in that sence lol <div></div>

da5idblacksun

01-23-2007, 10:13 PM

I finally got a master Beguile. There have been none on the broker then all of a sudden there was one up for 48 gold. I snapped it up as fast as I could!Soloing got a lot easier and I was using an A3 before. Master does make all the difference in terms of charm.<div></div>

TuxDave

01-24-2007, 04:02 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cattastrophy wrote: We are the only ones that get an open AE (not EE) Stun... plus if you have the right AA in Mindbend (5 ticks)... that + Pet + Auspex (with 5 ticks) will kill something nice and fast with out you even lifting a finger. So yeah... I'm gonna stick to my original statement. We are better at stuns. They have more and better mezzes and get the only AE (open) mezz as well. We don't. And if they have more than us... we need to be fixed in that sence lol <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Eh, up to you. I'm relying on my experience when duoing with just a tank in a zone without any high dps pets. Without a healer, any damage the tank takes is for real and so chain stunning is the only way I found to survive those fights. As an illusionist, we could do it without problems and we killed the named mobs. As a coercer, I'm not really sure what to do to prevent the tank from going down.

Flipmode

01-24-2007, 07:31 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TuxDave wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cattastrophy wrote: We are the only ones that get an open AE (not EE) Stun... plus if you have the right AA in Mindbend (5 ticks)... that + Pet + Auspex (with 5 ticks) will kill something nice and fast with out you even lifting a finger. So yeah... I'm gonna stick to my original statement. We are better at stuns. They have more and better mezzes and get the only AE (open) mezz as well. We don't. And if they have more than us... we need to be fixed in that sence lol <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Eh, up to you. I'm relying on my experience when duoing with just a tank in a zone without any high dps pets. Without a healer, any damage the tank takes is for real and so chain stunning is the only way I found to survive those fights. As an illusionist, we could do it without problems and we killed the named mobs. As a coercer, I'm not really sure what to do to prevent the tank from going down. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Its not even up for debate which class is the better stunner of the 2. Coercer hands down. I can say that with assurance as I have both classes at lvl 70. Illusionists have more stiffles and mezzes, but coercers own stuns. Illusionists have 2 stuns. Coercers have 4. The pet may stun but not frequent enough to be reliable.

TwistedFaith

01-24-2007, 05:47 PM

<blockquote><hr>Flipmode wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE><HR>TuxDave wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Cattastrophy wrote: We are the only ones that get an open AE (not EE) Stun... plus if you have the right AA in Mindbend (5 ticks)... that + Pet + Auspex (with 5 ticks) will kill something nice and fast with out you even lifting a finger. So yeah... I'm gonna stick to my original statement. We are better at stuns. They have more and better mezzes and get the only AE (open) mezz as well. We don't. And if they have more than us... we need to be fixed in that sence lol <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Eh, up to you. I'm relying on my experience when duoing with just a tank in a zone without any high dps pets. Without a healer, any damage the tank takes is for real and so chain stunning is the only way I found to survive those fights. As an illusionist, we could do it without problems and we killed the named mobs. As a coercer, I'm not really sure what to do to prevent the tank from going down. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Its not even up for debate which class is the better stunner of the 2. Coercer hands down. I can say that with assurance as I have both classes at lvl 70. Illusionists have more stiffles and mezzes, but coercers own stuns. Illusionists have 2 stuns. Coercers have 4. The pet may stun but not frequent enough to be reliable.<hr></blockquote>Crap, we have four stuns, dammit I must have missed one on my 60 coercer.At work atm, so I cant check but top of my head we have:Single targetEncounterPBAE StunMindbind (Does this count? does it work all the time, I was under the impression it only had a 'chance' to stun)

TuxDave

01-25-2007, 05:17 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Flipmode wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TuxDave wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cattastrophy wrote: We are the only ones that get an open AE (not EE) Stun... plus if you have the right AA in Mindbend (5 ticks)... that + Pet + Auspex (with 5 ticks) will kill something nice and fast with out you even lifting a finger. So yeah... I'm gonna stick to my original statement. We are better at stuns. They have more and better mezzes and get the only AE (open) mezz as well. We don't. And if they have more than us... we need to be fixed in that sence lol <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Eh, up to you. I'm relying on my experience when duoing with just a tank in a zone without any high dps pets. Without a healer, any damage the tank takes is for real and so chain stunning is the only way I found to survive those fights. As an illusionist, we could do it without problems and we killed the named mobs. As a coercer, I'm not really sure what to do to prevent the tank from going down. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Its not even up for debate which class is the better stunner of the 2. Coercer hands down. I can say that with assurance as I have both classes at lvl 70. Illusionists have more stiffles and mezzes, but coercers own stuns. Illusionists have 2 stuns. Coercers have 4. The pet may stun but not frequent enough to be reliable. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Having played an Illusionist at lvl 70 and betraying to a Coercer, I can still claim that an Illusionist can render a single target mob useless more effectively than a Coercer. Please show me how you would keep a mob (caster types included) continuously rendered useless while it takes damage from other classes in your group. I would be very interested. Message Edited by TuxDave on 01-24-2007 04:18 PM

DwarvesR

01-25-2007, 04:25 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> valleyboy1 wrote: Crap, we have four stuns, dammit I must have missed one on my 60 coercer. At work atm, so I cant check but top of my head we have: Single target Encounter PBAE Stun Mindbind (Does this count? does it work all the time, I was under the impression it only had a 'chance' to stun) <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Yes, those are the 4. Mindbend isn't a "chance" to stun, it's a reactive stun. Any successful attack the mob make on you, your pet, or a group member will reactively stun it for 4 seconds, for 3 procs (assuming no AA's). So that's a nice 12 second stun in addition to your other 3, though admittedly the mob still gets 3 attacks off in there. . . . I find that Mindbend + Harrowing Silence is nice though, becuz it's just 3 autoattacks, and with the Auspex up too. . . .it auto's, get hit for 1000 damage and is stunned for 4, and again, and again. . . . . TuxDave -- for mob lockdown while it's being hit. . . Single target stun is 8 seconds. Encounter stun is 6 seconds. PBAE Stun is another 6 seconds. This is 20 seconds of completely helpless stun, with refreshes beginning at 30 seconds. After that 20 stunned seconds you can stack on a 12 second stifle and a 9 second daze, so while those are both on, sure it can move (unless I rooted it. . . ) but it can't do anything else, so that's 29 out of 30 seconds where it's totally helpless. Pop a Mindbend on it and with the 1 attack it gets off in that final second. . . it stunned itself for another 4 (and still has 2 more 4-second stun triggers waiting for it too). Meantime, I've got my 8 second stun available again and by the time it's done my longer refresh stuns are now coming available again as well. . . . . . Yes, a coercer can stunlock a mob that's getting beat on but good. When fighting single-pull ^^^ mobs in a group, the healer rarely has to heal at all when I'm there. Edit to add: Vs caster mobs, with Perpetuality and the interupt built in to Stroke, I don't even have to stun it if I don't want to, just keep spamming Stroke over and over. Sure it can get some autoattacks off, but. . it's just a caster mob.Message Edited by DwarvesRUs on 01-25-2007 04:31 AM

Flipmode

01-25-2007, 11:23 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TuxDave wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Flipmode wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TuxDave wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cattastrophy wrote: We are the only ones that get an open AE (not EE) Stun... plus if you have the right AA in Mindbend (5 ticks)... that + Pet + Auspex (with 5 ticks) will kill something nice and fast with out you even lifting a finger. So yeah... I'm gonna stick to my original statement. We are better at stuns. They have more and better mezzes and get the only AE (open) mezz as well. We don't. And if they have more than us... we need to be fixed in that sence lol <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Eh, up to you. I'm relying on my experience when duoing with just a tank in a zone without any high dps pets. Without a healer, any damage the tank takes is for real and so chain stunning is the only way I found to survive those fights. As an illusionist, we could do it without problems and we killed the named mobs. As a coercer, I'm not really sure what to do to prevent the tank from going down. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Its not even up for debate which class is the better stunner of the 2. Coercer hands down. I can say that with assurance as I have both classes at lvl 70. Illusionists have more stiffles and mezzes, but coercers own stuns. Illusionists have 2 stuns. Coercers have 4. The pet may stun but not frequent enough to be reliable. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Having played an Illusionist at lvl 70 and betraying to a Coercer, I can still claim that an Illusionist can render a single target mob useless more effectively than a Coercer. Please show me how you would keep a mob (caster types included) continuously rendered useless while it takes damage from other classes in your group. I would be very interested. Message Edited by TuxDave on 01-24-2007 04:18 PM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I think DwarvesRUs beat me to it. Now show me how an Illusionist can keep a mob like this stunned in the same way.

Flipmode

01-25-2007, 11:24 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> valleyboy1 wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Flipmode wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TuxDave wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cattastrophy wrote: We are the only ones that get an open AE (not EE) Stun... plus if you have the right AA in Mindbend (5 ticks)... that + Pet + Auspex (with 5 ticks) will kill something nice and fast with out you even lifting a finger. So yeah... I'm gonna stick to my original statement. We are better at stuns. They have more and better mezzes and get the only AE (open) mezz as well. We don't. And if they have more than us... we need to be fixed in that sence lol <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Eh, up to you. I'm relying on my experience when duoing with just a tank in a zone without any high dps pets. Without a healer, any damage the tank takes is for real and so chain stunning is the only way I found to survive those fights. As an illusionist, we could do it without problems and we killed the named mobs. As a coercer, I'm not really sure what to do to prevent the tank from going down. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Its not even up for debate which class is the better stunner of the 2. Coercer hands down. I can say that with assurance as I have both classes at lvl 70. Illusionists have more stiffles and mezzes, but coercers own stuns. Illusionists have 2 stuns. Coercers have 4. The pet may stun but not frequent enough to be reliable. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Crap, we have four stuns, dammit I must have missed one on my 60 coercer. At work atm, so I cant check but top of my head we have: Single target Encounter PBAE Stun Mindbind (Does this count? does it work all the time, I was under the impression it only had a 'chance' to stun) <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Reading your spell descriptions ftw!!!

TuxDave

01-26-2007, 03:44 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Flipmode wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TuxDave wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Flipmode wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TuxDave wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cattastrophy wrote: We are the only ones that get an open AE (not EE) Stun... plus if you have the right AA in Mindbend (5 ticks)... that + Pet + Auspex (with 5 ticks) will kill something nice and fast with out you even lifting a finger. So yeah... I'm gonna stick to my original statement. We are better at stuns. They have more and better mezzes and get the only AE (open) mezz as well. We don't. And if they have more than us... we need to be fixed in that sence lol <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Eh, up to you. I'm relying on my experience when duoing with just a tank in a zone without any high dps pets. Without a healer, any damage the tank takes is for real and so chain stunning is the only way I found to survive those fights. As an illusionist, we could do it without problems and we killed the named mobs. As a coercer, I'm not really sure what to do to prevent the tank from going down. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Its not even up for debate which class is the better stunner of the 2. Coercer hands down. I can say that with assurance as I have both classes at lvl 70. Illusionists have more stiffles and mezzes, but coercers own stuns. Illusionists have 2 stuns. Coercers have 4. The pet may stun but not frequent enough to be reliable. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Having played an Illusionist at lvl 70 and betraying to a Coercer, I can still claim that an Illusionist can render a single target mob useless more effectively than a Coercer. Please show me how you would keep a mob (caster types included) continuously rendered useless while it takes damage from other classes in your group. I would be very interested. Message Edited by TuxDave on 01-24-2007 04:18 PM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I think DwarvesRUs beat me to it. Now show me how an Illusionist can keep a mob like this stunned in the same way. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> It's very close to the Coercer's stun lock but you'll see the difference in this explaination. Illusionist: Single Target Stun,*pause*, EE Stun, Daze,Stifle,*pause*. At lvl 70, this is roughly a 25sec stunlock and all the spells have a recast of around 25sec (maybe 27?). If you're fortunate enough to get the Relic gear or AA's to reduce recast in the single target stun, well.. then you're done with a 25 sec stunlock and a 25 sec recast for all the spells. The problem I have with Coercers is this sequence: Single Target Stun, EE Stun, Daze (40-45sec recast?), Stifle, PBAE Stun (60sec recast).... this is roughly around the 30 sec mark. Now when you try to go to the next cycle. 2nd cycle. Single Target Stun, and then you get stuck cuz EE stun isn't ready and neither is Daze,Stifle or PBAE Stun. That's the gap I'm having trouble with. And as you see the EE stun starts lagging in the cycle and you end up with gaps where your EE should be and gaps where you're waiting for Daze/Stifle to come back. My problem is that I get stuck wtih all these gaps beyond 1 casting cycle and I can't figure out the right combination to close it. The thing that kills me is that the while the Coercer's EE stun is twice as long, the recast is twice as long to 45 sec roughly. So you can't say you can stunlock a mob unless you have a cycle that that goes to at LEAST 45 sec or 60 sec if you need PBAE in your stunlock sequence.Message Edited by TuxDave on 01-25-2007 02:47 PM

Catsy

02-02-2007, 11:56 PM

Dave,Patterns similar to this one have been very successful for me:0:00: EStun lands - 6s, 45s rc0:04: Cast STStun0:06: EStun expires, STStun lands - 8s, 30s rc0:07: Cast Stifle0:09: Stifle lands - 14s, 25s rc0:10: Cast ReactiveStun0:11: ReactiveStun lands - 1m12s, 30s rc, 3 triggers0:12: Cast Daze0:14: STStun expires, Daze lands - 8s, 45s rc0:19: Cast PBAE Stun0:22: Daze expires, PBAE Stun lands - 5s, 45s rc0:27: PBAE Stun expires, mob attacks and stuns self - 4s0:31: mob attacks and stuns self - 4s0:35: mob attacks and stuns self - 4s0:36: STStun cycles0:37: Cast STStun0:39: ReactiveStun expires, STStun lands - 8s, 30s rc0:41: Cast ReactiveStun0:43: ReactiveStun lands - 1m12s, 30s rc, 3 triggers0:45: Cast EStun0:47: EStun lands - 6s, 45s rc0:53: EStun expires, mob attacks and stuns self - 4s0:56: Cast Stifle0:57: EStun expires, mob attacks and stuns self - 4s0:58: Stifle lands - 14s, 25s rc0:59: Cast Daze1:01: ReactiveStun expires, Daze lands - 8s, 45s rc1:07: PBAE Stun cycles, Cast PBAE Stun1:09: Daze expires, STStun cycles, PBAE Stun lands - 5s, 45s rc1:12: Cast STStun1:14: PBAE Stun expires, STStun lands - 8s, 30s rc1:15: Cast ReactiveStun1:17: ReactiveStun lands - 1m12s, 30s rc, 3 triggers1:22: STStun expires, mob attacks and stuns self - 4s1:26: mob attacks and stuns self - 4s1:30: mob attacks and stuns self - 4s1:32: EStun cycles, Cast EStun1:34: EStun lands - 6s, 45s rc1:40: mob is free to attack for 6 seconds while waiting for STStun to cycle and cast<div></div>The first gap comes at 30s, but it is filled with the reactive stun, which allows the mob to get in only two physical attacks before my single-target stun cycles. If the mob is a caster then they are less likely to stun themselves and more likely to do something useful--but casters are also much easier to lock down, since you only need to fill the gaps with your stifle and interrupt them with your DD.The next gap is at around 53 seconds in, where the mob again gets in two attacks before being locked down again.There is another gap at 1:22, this time allowing the mob three attacks. Finally, at 1:40, the pattern breaks down and the mob has six seconds of free action before the single target stun cycles.Now, on the one hand the timing for this pattern is fairly precise, and since I am not a machine I do not time it perfectly every time. If there are any resists it throws the whole thing off, but this is also true of any other casting pattern for any class. There are also few big pauses where I can lay on reactives until around 15 seconds in, so if I'm in this pattern I'm doing little else.On the other hand, Chronomancy cuts down on casting times and allows me to squeeze more in and gives me far more breathing room for the timing. Also, quite frankly, while there are gaps starting at 31 seconds in, it is extremely rare that I am in a group where a fight against any single target lasts this long. The one exception would be named mobs, and even then I would call a mob that only gets to attack at most seven times in a minute and a half effectively locked down.The important thing to remember is that each "cycle" will not have the same casting order, because you have to account for the varying recast times. Trying to fit them all into a preset, repeatable casting order simply won't work.

Cattastrophy

02-04-2007, 01:12 AM

Thank you Amezuki... nothing better than FACTS! lol....and how in the hell did ym post get in the middle of that neet tower looking thingy of posts. (o.O)/ I wana touch it! <div></div>