Possible betrayal inc

[Ardnahoy]

<DIV>Hello, fellow enchanters. I'm here to ask for some advice.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have been reading the EQ2 forums for a long time and I get the impression that a coercer is more powerful than an illusionist at the endgame, and especially in groups and raids. There also seems to be a consensus among the enchanter archetypes that the illusionist, by virtue of our pet, is the more efficient (and safer) soloer for daily exp grinds. The jury on which of the two is the most powerful soloer is still out, as far as I've read.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, with this in mind, I decided to stop spending money on spell upgrades (past adept 1) when I reached level 56 with the thought that I would grind my way to 70 as an illusionist (which is supposedly easier) and then betray to coercer when I reached 70.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My reasoning is that I would be a better fit for raiding guilds, and possibly a more powerful soloer, as a level 70 coercer than as a level 70 illusionist, based solely on reading forum posts. I have only met one ingame coercer, and was not particularly impressed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So I ask you guys, are coercers more wanted for raiding guilds than illusionists? Do coercers bring more to the table in a group setting than an illusionist? Also, and more importantly, do coercers really have the upper hand in the solo department at the endgame?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you guys don't really think that there is a major difference, I may just stick with the illusionist. I've always been intrigued with the ability to charm, and went so far as to blow 8 AA's to get a 16 second charm as an illusionist.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I solo the hard stuff, I don't use my pet anyway because it's just not worth it. The killer illusionist soloing technique uses a combination of 40-second mez and 8-second stun, things that I'm sure you all have as well. I'm sure both our nukes and DoTs do the same amount of damage, and that our AoE's are just as powerful. I don't expect the learnign curve to be very great going from an illusionist to a coercer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What are you thoughts on this?</DIV>

[AdiX__Styxx__]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ardnahoy wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hello, fellow enchanters. I'm here to ask for some advice.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>I</FONT><FONT color=#ff0000> have been reading the EQ2 forums for a long time and I get the impression that a coercer is more powerful than an illusionist at the endgame, and especially in groups and raids</FONT><FONT color=#ff0000>.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff>On groups i think illy might have a niche on coercer altough still very much dependant on the group setup, altough on raids an illy will never see the MT group unless there is no coercer available and even then might not make it in. what they bring to a group / raid well lets see:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff>1. regen about similar for both classes</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff>2. hate increase for tank and decrease for other classes from coercer what does illy have i think they have a proc buff that can be put on a single target that nukes damage and a decrease of hate for a % chance (correct me if i have anything wrong since i dont play a illy) </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff>Buff wise its kinda similar coercer buffs agi / int i think its the same for illy also we provide a power buff with divine / magic / mental resistances bet its the same too</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000> There also seems to be a consensus among the enchanter archetypes that the illusionist, by virtue of our pet, is the more efficient (and safer) soloer for daily exp grinds. The jury on which of the two is the most powerful soloer is still out, as far as I've read.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff>Illy is more efficient timewise cause coercer needs a pet to solo efficiently and fast so we gotta go find one cause if we just grab whatever we come across it dies fairly fast and have to find a new one contra to the illusionist who has their pet ready to go and cast. Also their pet cant turn on ya coercers pet can. Now ya could say this however yer a CC class and should be able to handle a break and you will with time and practice.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff>When a pet breaks ya get sonic vision for a few secs as a notification and a shortduration mezz on the ex-charmed mezz so its doable!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff>Anyways with right pet (sentries in BS) ya can blow away any soloing class even summoners cant kill as fast as coercers with teh right pet and remember we are a t3 dps class summoners / assasin / ranger etc all are t2 and t1!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff>I cant really say what it is like to solo as a illy but from what i heard their pets are weak (got upgraded a tad last patch but still) and die fairly quick if ya let them melee (again correct me if i am wrong)</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, with this in mind, I decided to stop spending money on spell upgrades (past adept 1) when I reached level 56 with the thought that I would grind my way to 70 as an illusionist (which is supposedly easier) and then betray to coercer when I reached 70.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My reasoning is that I would be a better fit for raiding guilds, and possibly a more powerful soloer, as a level 70 coercer than as a level 70 illusionist, based solely on reading forum posts. <FONT color=#ff0000>I have only met one ingame coercer, and was not particularly impressed.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff>Hmm if yer not impressed then why are ya thinking of betraying? this confuses me alot actually! Coercer if played right can be a very powerfull class altough there are several ways to play one which i think Tanatus pointed out in some post on these boards. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff>1. Pure DPS (this is what i am right now and i reach between 1 k and 1500 dps without a pet)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff>2. Pure Defensive (this would help with mezzing stuns and resists for mroe survivability etc)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff>3. Hybrid (lil of both obviously)</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033>So I ask you guys, are coercers more wanted for raiding guilds than illusionists? Do coercers bring more to the table in a group setting than an illusionist? Also, and more importantly, do coercers really have the upper hand in the solo department at the endgame?</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6699ff>Coercers have the upper hand in the entire game not just the endgame but hey im biased! Anyways Coercer > illy in MT group on the other hand Illy > Coercer in non MT group they can beat coercer with about 100/300 DPS (dont ask me how)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6699ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6699ff>Both classes are needed wanted altough coercers are a lil rarer then illusionists cause they seem to be tougher to play and surprisingly some people just dont like freeport!</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>If you guys don't really think that there is a major difference, I may just stick with the illusionist. I've always been intrigued with the ability to charm, and went so far as to blow 8 AA's to get a 16 second charm as an illusionist.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6666ff>How did ya like that charm, that charm used to be our main charm in t6 b4 t7 came out but i believe it was like 24 secs and used to break a lot on that too! Now our charm lasts between 5 min to 30 min depending on tier and lvl of the spell and yes it is very much more powerfull then the AA so if ya like the AA yer gonna love our charm!</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033>When I solo the hard stuff, I don't use my pet anyway because it's just not worth it. The killer illusionist soloing technique uses a combination of 40-second mez and 8-second stun, things that I'm sure you all have as well. I'm sure both our nukes and DoTs do the same amount of damage, and that our AoE's are just as powerful. I don't expect the learnign curve to be very great going from an illusionist to a coercer.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff>I always use a pet when i try to solo hard stuff just to increase the DPS output of which i have a limitation in soloing cause well we are fragile toiletpaper wearers cant let mobs get to ya as i am sure you are aware of! Anyways drop all buffs charm the pet ya want drop yer hate buff on it yer dehate on yerself and increase DPS on the mob ya charm (sentries ftw)</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What are you thoughts on this?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Thoughts are that ya just have to test it for yerself betray now and lvl up as a coercer to 70 instead of sitting on illy for that long then if ya still prefer illy then go back to illy when ya hit 70 and then get yer masters for it! Altough ya havent really tested coercers playstyle without charm at M1 and the hate spells and dps line for soloing anyways!</P> <P>Whatever ya pick make sure ya enjoy it in the end!</P> <P>good luck<BR></P>

[Ardnahoy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AdiX__Styxx__ wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff>Hmm if yer not impressed then why are ya thinking of betraying? this confuses me alot actually!</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>What I meant to say was that the player didn't seem to be very good. I did not mean to imply that the class itself did not impress me. I played the illusionist since game release, and liked it when we were both "enchanters". I experimented greatly with Charm when I had it (before LU13) and really miss it. I also miss it from playing an enchanter in EQ1.</P> <P> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AdiX__Styxx__ wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6666ff>How did ya like that charm, that charm used to be our main charm in t6 b4 t7 came out but i believe it was like 24 secs and used to break a lot on that too! Now our charm lasts between 5 min to 30 min depending on tier and lvl of the spell and yes it is very much more powerfull then the AA so if ya like the AA yer gonna love our charm!</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Unfortunately, the 16 second charm that we get as an AA ability is so absolutely useless that I will be allocating the AA points elsewhere as soon as I get back in town. The thing never seems to last 16 seconds, and even when it does, the mobs don't seem to be doing very much during that time.</P> <P>I used it last night as a test and the mob I charmed ran up to my target and then just stood there facing it doing nothing. The charm lasted about 8 seconds. Its not even worth using as a third mez. You guys must have hated life in T6 if that was your main charm.</P> <P> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P></P> <HR> AdiX__Styxx__ wrote:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Thoughts are that ya just have to test it for yerself betray now and lvl up as a coercer to 70 instead of sitting on illy for that long then if ya still prefer illy then go back to illy when ya hit 70 and then get yer masters for it! Altough ya havent really tested coercers playstyle without charm at M1 and the hate spells and dps line for soloing anyways!</P> <P>Whatever ya pick make sure ya enjoy it in the end!</P> <P>good luck<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Given the current state of spell costs, it is very difficult to experiment like this unless you have a few hundred plat in the bank. If I betray, it will likely be a permanent thing. I'm 75% certain that I will be betraying. All dependant upon what the guild I will be joining requires.<BR></P>

[Signal9]

<DIV>Although I generally don't like repeating work, due to the permenance of your decision in this case...  why not copy over to test, and betray there?  That gives you a way to experiment, and yet not destroy several years of work if it is a change that does not suit you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally, I don't have the insight to really compare the two classes, as I've only started one Q character (can't stand the sappy music in Qeynos!)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In my personal view, Coercers bring a bit more to raids, if they're in the MT group.  Illusionists bring just as much, but will be in a caster/DPS group to make the most of their buffs/procs.</DIV>

[Melodar]

My opinion is if you wait to 70 to betray your gonna be as efficient as an e-bay coercer. You will have no clue how to play a coercer (sure you will know the similar things but not our power the pets) properly and you will be trying to learn on mobs that will eat you fast. At least do the swap earlier and give yourself some time to learn the class.<div></div>

[Roriondesexiest]

To answer this question. <hr size="2" width="100%"> So I ask you guys, are coercers more wanted for raiding guilds than illusionists? Do coercers bring more to the table in a group setting than an illusionist? Also, and more importantly, do coercers really have the upper hand in the solo department at the endgame? <hr size="2" width="100%"> Depends on what the raid needs more.  Right now I could use an illusinoist, I have myself and one other coercer in my raid group but no illusionist. On my server there seem to be alot more active coercers than illusionists. <div></div>

[Ulrick85]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dalessit wrote:<BR>To answer this question.<BR> <HR width="100%" SIZE=2> <BR>So I ask you guys, are coercers more wanted for raiding guilds than illusionists? Do coercers bring more to the table in a group setting than an illusionist? Also, and more importantly, do coercers really have the upper hand in the solo department at the endgame?<BR> <HR width="100%" SIZE=2> <BR>Depends on what the raid needs more.  Right now I could use an illusinoist, I have myself and one other coercer in my raid group but no illusionist.<BR><BR>On my server there seem to be alot more active coercers than illusionists.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>yeah kinda annoying isn't it Ror? :p</P> <P> </P> <P>well every post I read above said what coercers bring, mostly the hate and regen in mt group. However its been a joke among the scouts to try and get me to betray to illu for the use of haste. even with the combat changes most scouts prefer the haste buff and it can be very usable on raids. Plus when it comes to mezzing, illusionists have the easier task with their 3 mezzes versus the coercers 2.</P>

[Kardg]

<DIV>If your going to betray do so at the right level so you can take advantage of some key pets. One pet is 65 Mistmoore Servants in New Tunaria and Corpse Candles 66-67 in Bonemire. An illusionist won't kill faster than you with these pets, infact no class in the game will solo as fast as you will with these two guys. The Mistmoore servants are my best friends. Every Coercer has a right of passage with the Candles, getting their first 8-10k nuke out of them and their 3k life tap. When you see the Servants crit for 30k it'll be over you'll wonder why you ever considered an Illusionist.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I also find on AB our masters are very cheap. The most I've paid was 9 plat for Dominate, 5 plat for Sonic Boom. All of our other masters like Auspex, Spell Scourge, Ease etc went for around 2-2.5p.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Kard Bias Coercer</DIV>

[Roriondesexiest]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Kardgar wrote:<div></div> <div>If your going to betray do so at the right level so you can take advantage of some key pets. One pet is 65 Mistmoore Servants in New Tunaria and Corpse Candles 66-67 in Bonemire. An illusionist won't kill faster than you with these pets, infact no class in the game will solo as fast as you will with these two guys. The Mistmoore servants are my best friends. Every Coercer has a right of passage with the Candles, getting their first 8-10k nuke out of them and their 3k life tap. When you see the Servants crit for 30k it'll be over you'll wonder why you ever considered an Illusionist.</div> <div> </div> <div>I also find on AB our masters are very cheap. The most I've paid was 9 plat for Dominate, 5 plat for Sonic Boom. All of our other masters like Auspex, Spell Scourge, Ease etc went for around 2-2.5p.</div> <div> </div> <div>Kard Bias Coercer</div><hr></blockquote>Yeah, too bad there is nothing worth killing in New Tunaria. And must be nice to have those prices.  I paid 5 plat for Harmonious link on my server.  I can't even sniff the Sonic Boom's that show up and go for 20 plat.... Added, yeah alot more these days would rather have the haste than the dps buff. <div></div><p>Message Edited by dalessit on <span class=date_text>01-05-2007</span> <span class=time_text>09:14 AM</span>

[Kardg]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> dalessit wrote: <P>Yeah, too bad there is nothing worth killing in New Tunaria.<BR><BR>And must be nice to have those prices.  I paid 5 plat for Harmonious link on my server.  I can't even sniff the Sonic Boom's that show up and go for 20 plat....<BR><BR>Added, yeah alot more these days would rather have the haste than the dps buff.<BR><BR></P> <P>Message Edited by dalessit on <SPAN class=date_text>01-05-2007</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>09:14 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>lvl 65 Triple up Heroics in Tunaria drop some pretty decent loot (Plenty of AD1's for the broker). There are two named to farm as well. I was just there last night for about 30-45 minutes and made a plat and a half in just vendor loot. I wouldn't say there's nothing to kill. It takes all of seven or eight seconds to kill them. For sheer firepower alone it makes a perfect cash farming zone for Coercers. You'll come out of there looking like a Tunarian Tailor. Fifteen Tunarian Slippers...twelve Tunarian boots.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1.8 Plat for my Harmonious Link <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV><p>Message Edited by Kardgar on <span class=date_text>01-05-2007</span> <span class=time_text>10:14 AM</span>

[Cattastrophy]

heheeh yeah there isn't much in NT. Few mobs here and there, and some AA... that's about it. If you ser seriously farming over there for cheap quick sellables, MMC and BM are a LOT faster and you get more out of it. (Although watching a pet almost always start nuking for 25 ~ 42k is neet, it does only work on HUMANIOD type mobs, or did last time I tried. Which limits just out right pwning everything in the zone.)Betrayal? - I'ed say this. If you want more solo-ablity yes go Coercer, if you want higher DPS on raid Parses stay Illu, if you want to help tanks and melee more go Coercer, if you want to help out the casters a bit more than the melee stay Illu... I'ed say just do your reasurch, see what your guild needs most, and above all PICK WHAT /YOU/ WILL HAVE THE MOST FUN WITH! [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] all of us... we obviously like Coercers better if we are playing one, or we'ed betray =p<div></div>