stroke vs words of force

[Mage-Apprentice]

<DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/6351/eq2000459lw6.jpg"></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why should I ever use stroke?</DIV> <DIV>because it's faster cast? (agi-coercer makes this absolite imho)</DIV> <DIV>interupt? can I realy interupt epics? (sure on some herioc nameds meaby)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Imho that the splitpaw nuke is better than our tier 6 m1 nuke wich is still used in t7 is quite sad.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So why use stroke, can anyone give arguments for that?</DIV>

[Ba]

<P>Seems pretty straightforward to me:-</P> <P>1. Stroke costs less mana (74 vs 96)<BR>2. Stroke has a FAR faster casting time (0.87 vs 1.75)<BR>3. Stroke can interrupt the target (which considering the fast casting time is pretty handy -- if you highlight npc spells/arts/specials with a custom UI)</P> <P><BR>and...</P> <P>4. Stroke doesn't require the Splitpaw adventure pack to get<BR>5. Stroke is mental damage instead of magic damage (which is handy after mental has been debuffed) <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>They both do pretty equivilent damage unless WoF happens to proc its special.</P> <P><BR>Word of Force is a decent spell but I would consider Stroke M1 to be a tad better. The 10% chance for double dmg from WoF really doesnt happen very much in my experience.</P> <P> </P> <P>Edit: Oh, and Stroke M1 is harder to resist. 33% on M1 vs 20% on WoF.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by sabutterworth on <span class=date_text>12-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:50 AM</span>

[Vydian]

This is not as straightforward as you might think...1) It is VERY hard to interrupt most epic mobs as most of their abilites are insta-cast. There are some exceptions that I have seen (Quelthullian researchers in Vlabs), but by and large trying to interupt on raids is a waste of time. You also need to consider that LOTS of classes will using abilites that come with interrupts anyway. Several tank taunts, rogue offensive stance % chance, etc.2) We can debuff magic the exact same as we debuff mental, with the exception of Tash. If you have a Troub around, mental will pretty much be floored though <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />3) I don't know about anyone else, but I don't exactly have mana issues....pretty much ever. Even if I die on a raid I just recast the power buffs, cast transfer potential, throw gorging thoughts/vicious torment and I'm fine.4) Splitpaw isn't really expensive, like what 5 bucks now?That leaves pretty much resist and cast time. After I land both our debuffs, I don't get resisted again (certain mobs can be a pain though). So the resist difference isn't a big deal. Down to cast time. It does cast twice as fast as WoF and if you have a good chain setup based on this, it is very worthwhile. The fast cast time is also nice for hitting the harder HOs if your group does them. Also, WoF doesn't proc everytime, so it's not guarenteed to be more damage.On raids, I usually vary between the 2 depending on what I am doing. HOs, while Tash is ticking, and encounters where interrupts are useful, I'll use Stroke. Most of the other times I'll use WoF. I really never see a difference in my parse if I focus on one or the other due to WoF only procing 10% of the time, so I wouldn't go out of my way to get it if you don't already have it in your spellbook.<div></div>

[Pins]

Stroke has a faster cast time, lower mana usage, does slightly less damage, and has an Interrupt component(which btw, all Interrupts work on epics).However, based on the fact that it takes 10 casts to get 1-average proc of Word of Force, that gives you a total time of 50s, with 20s of casting, 30s of waiting on recast(assuming you just spam it). This would give you a total of 6260 Damage and use 960 Power. Whereas if you were to cast Stroke 12 times for a total of 48s you would do 6732 Damage and use 888 Power.

[Vydian]

I never said interrupts DIDN'T work on epics, I said it is very unlikely that it will actually work. There is a difference.<div></div>

[Redra]

<div></div><div></div><div align="left">deleted</div><div></div><p>Message Edited by Redrain on <span class="date_text">12-19-2006</span> <span class="time_text">05:56 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Redrain on <span class=date_text>12-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:57 AM</span>

[Lleinen]

<DIV>Yeah I tested this one out pretty throughly a while ago.  The cast/recast/power use is all a negative, stroke is the better choice.</DIV>

[schmee]

bleh i gave up on trying to do all the splitpaw quests to get access to it anyway. i rarely have time to cast a DD more than 3-5 times on a mob anyway since i rarely solo, or when i do it's to finish off green-blue quests so they're quick kills.<div></div>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<DIV>More importantly than efficiency of damage/power ratios... is how the spell interacts with the playstyle.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Face it, we aren't going to be just sitting there pressing the nuke buttons the entire fight, we have other things we need to do. Having a quick casting interupt nuke works far better because it can be sneaked in between our other more important casts, especially when you see the enemy starting to cast a spell you know you don't want them to get off (such as a healer, etc).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The slight increase in damage or lowered power consumption is nice too... but the fact that it can mesh well with the playstyle is what makes Stroke a better choice, even if it isn't mastered.</DIV>

[WasFycksir]

<DIV>Using the easiest setting on all the SP quests, they can be completed in less than 3 hours np, just an FYI.</DIV>

[Tanatus]

Lol I already fogot are they on same timer? if yes then stroke ftw (chain-casting lead to chain proc of you gear thus fast casting spell significant advantage in terms of frequensy of procs GEAR, spell procs goes more often with slower casting spell but lol aside of dynamism I other procs goes off on every cast thus - again stroke definitely obviously winner

[Cattastrophy]

I'm going ot agree with the popular vote here, Stroke all the way... wow that sounds bad... I used to use Word of Force because it had the "chance" to do a lot more damage, but do ot the casting time I can do more damage constantly with other things. Plus Strokes casting time fits in perfectly with a stun-nuke-mez combo, almost to the second.With stroke there is a combo you can pull off at level 70 that does about 4,000 ~ 6,500 damage a round by rotating the proper stuns and nukes in a certain order than finishing with mezz. With Words of Force, the mobe would have a 1 second gap in 2 different places where it could hit you... and that makes for a sad panda. =(<div></div>

[Mage-Apprentice]

<P>gear proc are afaik normalised like spells, the base casting time, that makes the agi line a bit more atractive, however that doesn't mean stroke is better, so if you can clarify that part, plz do.</P> <P> </P> <P>Pinki's comment made me doubt, but I'm not casting this spell 100% of the time when it refreshes, however I try to do it sometimes. However I'm in a group that has 2*25% proc increase (templ+dirge AA), wich means I've atleast a 14% proc chance. Now it's 1:7 WoF's for a free proc wich means 8 stroke cast's, wich means:wof (4542.5) vs stroke (448<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</P> <P>I raid alot and actually never say a real use for the interupt part, I've the agi line for speed, so my wof is often around 1 sec cast time (less than the pic above says), sure stroke will be around 0.5 sec, but at this point the difference is less signifisant to me.</P> <P>Also all our debuffs except the big AA debuffs, does debuff mental and magic equally.</P> <P>Power, since when is power an issue for a coercer? (I've many power proccing gear as well) so the 22 mana diff is meaninglis, only chaincasting sonic boom drain me mana.</P> <P> </P> <P>So may only reason is usefellnis, wich means good dps (they are roughly equal), the amount of cast in a battle (also roughly equal), and the ability to cast other spells, this part is situational, and seems to tend (from above posts) towards stroke, however I don't see a real reason to upgrade stroke to m1 like you try to do with so many other spells.</P> <P>if stroke is worse than m1, the dps will fall greatly below WoF, and I am curious, why should a nuke wich you can't upgrade be better than our "primary" nuke?</P> <P> </P> <P>ps in some raidsituations I may still go to stroke, but mostly I am not impressed</P> <P>pps got this spell for free.</P>