stuns/stifles vs epics

[enchranter]

<DIV>Hi I have been away from game for a while, and when I left, a lot of our spells were useless against epics. Now i see that some have a limited affect on epics. I was wondering how much difference it makes to use the stuns/stiffles on epics, does it negate that much damage, or should i stick to my 400 dps?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks</DIV>

[josephloceff]

it can make a huge difference on a spike, and if your doing 400 dps your a slacker<div></div>

[Kyriel]

<DIV>stuns help more than people think. if the tank is in the red and you get your single stun, then cast ur stifle and then ur daze, thats about 4 seconds of no damage to the tank, plenty of time for healers to cast their uber heals </DIV>

[Aranieq]

<DIV>the dps loss (from reactive damage ect...) from the stuns we add are woth the mitigated damage to the tank in many events.  You will barely notice the difference for the most part.  I tend to let the illusionist stifle since they have a longer duration one (to my knowledge they do lie to me sometimes =p ) and the coercers do the stunning / daze for us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>a side note everyong knows dps is relative to debuffs, master lvl and Class posision on raid (ie MT coercer should be doing less dps than dps coercer who doesnt need the STA line ect...) so a coercer can be doing 400 dps and not be slacking by far.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our coercers have their stuns mastered so it doesnt matter wich one of us lands it triggering the stun timer...  Theres been few events I'd say a win / loss was determined by timed stun/stiffle/daze cycle...</DIV>

[Leawyn]

<DIV>I stun constantly, and I have seen the effect it has on a fight. Last night our MT got into the red, and I landed a stun that lasted just long enough for the spam heals to land and get him back to the green. I didn't even need to daze afterwards, and saved it for later in the fight. I keep a tight timer on my stuns, and cycle them as the spell icon becomes available. In the end, it saves our healers power, and stress. Plus it makes me feel useful :smileytongue: Since EOF nerfed a big chunk of my dps (/sigh) and I'm still trying to get it back through different spell orders etc, I tend to burn my power more on control spells (stuns, stifles and daze) and all the debuffing (I use my hex doll so that the other higher dps casters don't have to waste the time) rather than dps anyway. Tho I do love the fights that I don't have to pay that much attention and can just unload hehe.</DIV>

[Ibunubi]

<DIV>Exactly what everyone else has said. I see the MT low on health, I pop either a stun or daze. Plus, I usually cycle stun, daze, stun... one after each AE to help recover.</DIV>

[teknoide]

<P>Not sure but thinkt coercer/illu stiffle have the same duration.</P> <P>Difference come from the daze which is longer (and a better recast time) for illusionist but for them it's not ae target but single target.</P>

[Pins]

Too bad a lot of epics are control effect immune anyway!

[Roriondesexiest]

Well with some of the 5 expicx2 type mobs I have started hitting sonic boom a bit closer to the start of the fight, we seem to get a lot of up front damage, and stunning them for a second or so gives the healers a chance to catch up and stabalize. I use my stuns alot now. 400 DPS is fine for me in my setup, I am in the scout group for DPS boost for them so they pretty much provide me with 3 pathfinding buffs and not much else, I have STA and WIS AA line as well. <div></div>

[gracjan-s]

dazes comes only from ego strike, right? and it prevents autoattack from the mob?as for stuns...doing the same: I see our MT is in yellow -> I am beginning with casting Deep Focus.another question about stuns. Does an epic mob have got only one stun timer? if so...who can cast any stuns on epic? Almost everyone? So the best is to write, that only coercers has the right to stun epics...<p>Nachricht bearbeitet von gracjan-ski am <span class=date_text>12-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:20 AM</span>

[zormik]

<DIV>i think 400 dps for a coercer with the sta/wis spec is normal tbh.  In raid we dps but we focus more on powerdistribution and dazing/stunning ...</DIV>

[Roriondesexiest]

<blockquote><hr>gracjan-ski wrote:dazes comes only from ego strike, right? and it prevents autoattack from the mob?as for stuns...doing the same: I see our MT is in yellow -> I am beginning with casting Deep Focus.another question about stuns. Does an epic mob have got only one stun timer? if so...who can cast any stuns on epic? Almost everyone? So the best is to write, that only coercers has the right to stun epics...<p>Nachricht bearbeitet von gracjan-ski am <span class="date_text">12-22-2006</span> <span class="time_text">01:20 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I believe you are correct about daze and ego torrent, but I think daze is a breakable stun, so if someone is attacking the mob daze breaks. Correct the mob has only one stun timer, so if someone stuns a mob, our stun will get resisted. Well anyone with a stun proc'ing weapon that works on epics can stun, or got abilities can stun epics.<div></div>

[Leawyn]

Up until EOF, we were the only ones that could stun epics. Then they introduced the diety miracles and blessings, and the Raincaller, all of which affect epics. The diety abilities, IMHO, are ok, because the user must choose to use them and usually they come with some other nice benefits aside from the stun. The Raincaller sucks [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and needs to be changed to not affect epics. The randomness of the proc triggers the immunity timer and then when I NEED to stun, I'm not able to.<div></div>

[Alaeth]

<blockquote><hr>dalessit wrote:I believe you are correct about daze and ego torrent, but I think daze is a breakable stun, so if someone is attacking the mob daze breaks.Correct the mob has only one stun timer, so if someone stuns a mob, our stun will get resisted.Well anyone with a stun proc'ing weapon that works on epics can stun, or got abilities can stun epics.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Daze in general is not a breakable stun; it simply prevents the target from auto-attacking, but it doesn't prevent CA/spell use. In most cases, it's not breakable either. Perhaps you're thinking of the daze on our root, which explicitly states that it breaks when the target takes damage.And yeah...Raincaller sucks. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Vydian]

There are epics that are immune to our CC abilities (usually stun if it's anything), but mitigating damage anyway possible is a good thing. Most of the time I restrict myself to using stuns/stifle/daze during the first few second of a fight, when reactives and wards haven't been put up yet. I then hang on to them if I see some quick damage spikes to help the healers get things under control.And while this thread isn't about coercer raid DPS, keep in mind that our DPS is very encounter dependant, especially after the update. The new name of the game is getting avoidance up for all tank types since mitigation is no longer king. That in turn hurts Auspex at the least and probably extends to Spell Scourge on CA's that hit in melee as well. Anyway, there are some fights where I can get 900+ (single mob, no mass AOE), others probably below 400. Full STA/WIS AA. In all honesty, if you are concerned at all about your parse spot, this isn't the class for you. Nothing wrong with getting the most out of our spells, but if you fixate on it, you'll end up forgetting about other important aspects, like the use of CC.<div></div>