Question for raiding coercers (especially MT group coercers)

[Leawyn]

<DIV>Expansion has been out for almost a week now. We have done a couple of raids since then. One of the most predominate things I noticed was lack of agro control. Our MT, who usually has no problem holding agro 99% of the time (losing only to a warlock or wizard who happens to crit at a bad time) is having a hard time keeping agro even on trash mobs. Named mobs are a whole other beast.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Last night in Lyceum, I managed to pull agro 4 times. I have no idea how I was pulling agro, my dps was down from normal (go go resists!) and I wasn't casting early. The MT was standing every single time I pulled agro, so it wasn't because he died. I am honestly flabbergasted that I could pull agro with only ~500 dps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is anyone else noticing the lack of agro control? Anyone else pulling agro when they normally wouldn't? I was even pulling agro in normal instance groups way more than normal, over and above the usual suspects of sorcs and preds.</DIV>

[Alaeth]

I don't raid much, but I did my normal weekly Labs raid yesterday (which went absolutely horribly...couldn't even kill Pardas or Slavering, when before we routinely cleared the zone), and our MT was saying that his master taunts were being resisted more often than not. He also said he was missing with the majority of his CAs, so if taunts are being resisted more and the MT isn't putting out much damage, that would naturally lead to poorer aggro control. I don't know if that's the same problem you've been having, and I don't really raid enough to know if this is something specific to Labs or not, but that's one explanation.

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

They made skills mean more. This screwed all tanks.Here's how: Taunts work of some stupid skill like Disruption. Tanks aren't casters, therefore they don't even have any kind of bonus to it. Ever. Enter epic mobs and named... BAM resists.And Coercer DPS, while low over the whole course of the fight, can spike when people are getting hit a lot. I've had 3 procs each from both Auspex and Spell Scourge go off at one moment because of some multi-attack thing going on, and spiked for over 6k damage. With no normal deaggro's on me, the tank needs to be doing his job or I'll get aggro temporarily.<div></div>

[mcavellero]

<DIV>yeah the zones have been buggy..as soon as we zoned into deathtoll we got killed one by one as we zoned in.  The damage output of the mobs are not scaled properly for the new gear.  I also hear labs/trials were horrible...  Hopefully they will get this cleared up soon.</DIV>

[Mage-Apprentice]

<P>Hmmm, mt-coercer you say?</P> <P> </P> <P>Strange I've hardly pulled agro atm (didn't do much old zones though), but there was 1 mob (chell'drak) where I pulled agro few times, and the mt switched moderate to me, and had no problems at all.</P> <P>We haven't got a dirge, so I blame mostly that for our agro problems.</P> <P> </P> <P>Btw I've sol ro cloak and repsecced to agi line to increase my dps, didn't watched it closely, but it feels better than ever.</P> <P>Also debuffing brigands also helps alot.</P>

[Leawyn]

Raided today and didn't pull agro at all, so I guess it was just a bad night in Lyceum. I think we were all rusty after having 5 days off. <div></div>

[Lleinen]

<DIV>I've noticed it a little, our tank didnt have much trouble today, but I definitely see what your talking about.</DIV>

[Roriondesexiest]

I think it might have to do with the resists, think about how much our AOE Mez is resisted and many have Master Mez's with close to 400 subjigation, don't think tanks can increase whatever it is that affects taunts so more would get resisted I suppose. <div></div>

[123]

I usually have problems with aggro. Maybe not usually, but it happens sometimes. Now it's worse because the tank have much more resist than before but even before EoF, I had problems with aggro. But no idea why and nobody in the raid can explain... My DPS is quite low (between 450 and 700 depending on the encounter and I didn't choose the Int line). And it's really low comparing to a wizard, ranger, T1 DPS in general... And sometimes I take the aggro.. Maybe a reactive as beholder eye could be a problem ? Or maybe the damages done by a ranger/swash.. with Impetus increase our own aggro instead the ranger, swash himself ?No idea in fact but it's a big mistery :/<div></div>

[UmanAsi]

check update notes, they fixed those zones, scaled em down<div></div>

[Tanatus]

<P>Yep agro went [Removed for Content] ... I add few more things here</P> <P>First of all SOE [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ed up agro attached to debuffs/stuns...  No matter how hard I nuke/my reactives proc ... I am good.. but once I use 2-3 stuns on same mob in row... no matter how long been combat mob rush toward me. Before LU29 Paladin MT was favorite only for my warlock ... now for coercer as well</P>

[Toredorf]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> krisallyde wrote:<BR>I usually have problems with aggro. Maybe not usually, but it happens sometimes. Now it's worse because the tank have much more resist than before but even before EoF, I had problems with aggro. But no idea why and nobody in the raid can explain... <EM><U>My DPS is quite low (between 450 and 700 depending on the encounter and I didn't choose the Int line)</U></EM>. And it's really low comparing to a wizard, ranger, T1 DPS in general... And sometimes I take the aggro.. Maybe a reactive as beholder eye could be a problem ? Or maybe the damages done by a ranger/swash.. with Impetus increase our own aggro instead the ranger, swash himself ?<BR>No idea in fact but it's a big mistery :/<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Try Freethinkers Hideout yet? my dps in vampire there was from 800-1050 (without the signets) (eof coercing line, and wis and sta normal line). Sucks that doing 1050 dps I still was the 5-6 in parse <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>-Mezter Boricua, Coercer of Genesis<BR></P>

[Wikod]

The only real agro issues I have seen (Which hasn't been to many) since EOF is tank taunts getting resisted more but if they don't get resisted it seems to be just like normal. Everytime agro goes nuts (Usually in the begining of the battle right after dps is called) the tank has said xxx resisted multiple taunts or something to that effect.<div></div>

[Leawyn]

<P>We were in Labs last night, glad to see they retuned it, it was just like normal.... except my dps is still down (this is so frustrating to me!) and I still pulled agro. :smileysad: It wasn't so bad this time, I pulled agro 3 times, but didn't die any of those times. And usually it wasn't the main mob that agro'd me like in Lyceum when we went. I was attracting the adds of multiple groups hehe.</P> <P>Anyone else notice a drop in DPS? I was steadily moving up towards a steady 650-700 dps zonewide. Now I struggle to maintain 450, and its [Removed for Content] me off.</P><p>Message Edited by Leawyn on <span class=date_text>11-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:45 AM</span>

[123]

<div><blockquote><hr>Toredorf wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> krisallyde wrote:I usually have problems with aggro. Maybe not usually, but it happens sometimes. Now it's worse because the tank have much more resist than before but even before EoF, I had problems with aggro. But no idea why and nobody in the raid can explain... <em><u>My DPS is quite low (between 450 and 700 depending on the encounter and I didn't choose the Int line)</u></em>. And it's really low comparing to a wizard, ranger, T1 DPS in general... And sometimes I take the aggro.. Maybe a reactive as beholder eye could be a problem ? Or maybe the damages done by a ranger/swash.. with Impetus increase our own aggro instead the ranger, swash himself ?No idea in fact but it's a big mistery :/ <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>Try Freethinkers Hideout yet? my dps in vampire there was from 800-1050 (without the signets) (eof coercing line, and wis and sta normal line). Sucks that doing 1050 dps I still was the 5-6 in parse <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p> <p>-Mezter Boricua, Coercer of Genesis</p><hr></blockquote>I tried it some days ago, at least the beginning.. up to the first named who was impossible to defeat.Yes, I had a good DPS around 800, better as normal like the other mage too. But every scout and  fighter did lots of miss/failed in their attacks. And they had a really bad DPS... But the original question is not here, it's more about a problem with aggro which is not really normal with the low DPS from a coercer</div>

[Sokolov]

The Coercer in my raids pull aggro sometimes.. but not sure how often it is due to damage.  Post-EoF she is pulling 1200 DPS now and gets aggro once in awhile in weird situations, but not the way a Wizard does with DPS, as far as I can tell.  It appears that your buffs seem to generate a decent amount of aggro simpy by being on the tank.<div></div>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

I was in a group with a Pally tank who had amends on a Wizard. The wizard had my deaggro, and so did I.The wizard was pulling down over 2k DPS per fight. I was getting roughly 250-500 (instance grouping, I was stunning/stifling, etc).When I DPS'd, I didn't pull aggro, but the second I pulled out any crowd control... like mezzing or stunning, any DPS I did after (even with the tank and wizard beating the hell out of it), I'd get aggro and keep it. I used Amnesia quite a bit that run.I think Tanatus has the right of it here, there's something going on with debuff/stuns, etc.<div></div>

[Roriondesexiest]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Raidi Sovin'faile wrote:I was in a group with a Pally tank who had amends on a Wizard. The wizard had my deaggro, and so did I.The wizard was pulling down over 2k DPS per fight. I was getting roughly 250-500 (instance grouping, I was stunning/stifling, etc).When I DPS'd, I didn't pull aggro, but the second I pulled out any crowd control... like mezzing or stunning, any DPS I did after (even with the tank and wizard beating the hell out of it), I'd get aggro and keep it. I used Amnesia quite a bit that run.I think Tanatus has the right of it here, there's something going on with debuff/stuns, etc.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Yeah I noticed that too, hell even in labs fighting coroslander had him run right towards me even though we had all the dps classes unloading on him, doing way more dps, I throw stuns and stifles up every minute or so, along with my dps (not much dps to speak about). Also noticed alot of aggro flip flopping I put a coercer, and a dirge in the MT group to try to help and it didn't seem to work much better.<div></div><p>Message Edited by dalessit on <span class=date_text>11-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:37 AM</span>

[Alaeth]

I think there may be something going on with our maintained buffs as well. In Labs yesterday, twice--once on Slavering and once on Doomwright--I had a named come straight for me off the initial pull and kill me before I or anyone but the MT had even attempted to cast anything. In both cases, the MT body pulled and had his first taunt resisted. We had a normal group setup of Guard/Defiler/Templar/Warden/Dirge/me, and both the Dirge and I have master hate buffs. I did have Mana Link up, but that was cast a good 10 seconds before the pull and didn't expire during the pull.

[Signal9]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Alaeth wrote:<BR>I think there may be something going on with our maintained buffs as well. In Labs yesterday, twice--once on Slavering and once on Doomwright--I had a named come straight for me off the initial pull and kill me before I or anyone but the MT had even attempted to cast anything. In both cases, the MT body pulled and had his first taunt resisted. We had a normal group setup of Guard/Defiler/Templar/Warden/Dirge/me, and both the Dirge and I have master hate buffs. I did have Mana Link up, but that was cast a good 10 seconds before the pull and didn't expire during the pull.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That sounds a lot like the old power-heal aggro.  Body pull, mob enters aggro range of coercer just as Ease ticks, and adds power to all 6 in group, hate from the "heal" puts coercer on top of the "eat me" list.