Taking Mez off my Hot Bar

[gggun]

Trying to mez a no-arrow solo mob yellow con one level higher than me just resisted four times in a row. Charm also seems to be breaking way more frequently.This patch is a disaster for Coercers. Funny that our dmg spells don't seem to get resisted any more frequently... guess we're a DPS class now. A [Removed for Content] DPS class at that.<div></div>

[Mordion89]

<DIV>aoe mez got freakin nerfed to 3%EASIER with MASTER rank, god thats insane</DIV>

[Venzule]

<FONT color=#ffff00>Just a little thank you from SOE for sticking with them and buying their expansion.</FONT>   :smileymad:

[Kyriel]

:smileysad:

[Dekiri]

Stop crying that was to be expected the moment they put in anything related to the old tashania line. You are supposed to debuff before mezzing now =pJust like in EQ1 wich is actually really awsome and adds a lot of flavor to the class. Not to mention that playing coercer well is going to be a bit more demanding now, wich is actually a +<div></div>

[Flipmode]

<DIV>To be honest, my mezzes arent being resisted much at all.  Then again I was trying the wisdom line...seems subj makes a difference now :smileywink:</DIV>

[Twizzler66]

Having troubles with AE mez.  No problems with single target.  Root+debuff+mez.

[Kyriel]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Flipmode wrote:<BR> <DIV>To be honest, my mezzes arent being resisted much at all.  Then again I was trying the wisdom line...seems subj makes a difference now :smileywink:</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>*waits for tanatus to hi-jack this thread*<BR>

[JackAll]

<P>I tested resists on mezz yesterday in beta.</P> <P>target was a 68 heroic</P> <P>I got 8% resists with 365 subjugation</P> <P>I got 8% resists with 402</P> <P>So.....</P>

[Rominian]

Well, I wasnt in beta, but last night as I played the expansion for the first time I did notice that mezzes were resisted a lot more than before.  It seems that rather than give us a cool new ability, SOE would rather make us spend points from our coercer tree to attempt to un-nerf what they have done to us in the past....Im sorely disappointed

[Kyriel]

<DIV>either way I think "taking mez off your hotbar" is a little extreme.  We're still crowd control. Just not as powerful as before <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV>

[Vydian]

The real kick in the teeth is the Encounter Mez. I was in Mistmoore with guildies yesterday and the resist rate for Astonishing Awe M1 was just insane. Almost always there would be 1-2 that would resist out of a group of 5 mobs and there were a couple of times where it would only land on one mob! The single target was a lot better, but still had a few cases where it was getting resisted 2 times in a row. This was with 395 subjugation. The only bright side I can see is that is if you hit very close to the skill cap for subjugation now, we should be better off than before if it does indeed cap at a 20% difference instead of 10%. I REALLY wish SOE would modifiy the examine info on a spell to include the casting skill in the resistability.Oh, and to whoever said to use tashiana before mezzing....give me a break. 1 target, lasts 10 seconds. Won't do crap for the AoE mez and you can just use marred psyche on a single target that is giving you resist trouble as it is. Not to mention it would take 25 AA to pick up tash. If you are going that way anyway, no biggie I guess, but I would save it for doing that much extra DPS or breaking an immunity instead of mezzing.*Also waits with Zemfira for Tanatus to hijack the thread saying we are nothing but DPS and "THE pet class"*<div></div>

[Kyriel]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Vydian wrote:<BR><snip></P> <P><BR>*Also waits with Zemfira for Tanatus to hijack the thread saying we are nothing but DPS and "THE pet class"*<BR><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>*giggles!!* He's probably busy trying to drain power from epic mobs that should only live for 3 minutes anyway :smileyvery-happy:<BR></P> <P>Anyways</P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vydian wrote:<BR>The real kick in the teeth is the Encounter Mez. I was in Mistmoore with guildies yesterday and the resist rate for Astonishing Awe M1 was just insane. Almost always there would be 1-2 that would resist out of a group of 5 mobs and there were a couple of times where it would only land on one mob! The single target was a lot better, but still had a few cases where it was getting resisted 2 times in a row.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>This is true. We went to the catacombs and AE mez is now, at master 1, 3% easier to resist. I think that's a little harsh. If anything it shuold be 3% <EM><STRONG>harder</STRONG></EM>, after all, its a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing <U>MASTER SPELL</U>. Single Mez is still Okay though, in my book <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Rominian]

The only zone I have really been too so far was Obilisk, so my experience comes from just an hour playing in there, but I did not notice a significant difference between the AoE mez resists and the single target one.  When you get down to it, it was probably about the same, given the actual casts/mob.  In a 3 group encounter for instance, one of the mobs would resist.  Casting the single target got about the same resist rate.  I still consider myself a good enough Coercer to be able to deal with this, though it is a pain having to change your expectations all the time.  I was still able to control 6 targets at a time last night, and save the group from a wipe, though the tank and a healer bit it....thats what you get for shooting an arrow into a room...

[Dekiri]

<div><blockquote><hr>Vydian wrote:Oh, and to whoever said to use tashiana before mezzing....give me a break. 1 target, lasts 10 seconds. Won't do crap for the AoE mez and you can just use marred psyche on a single target that is giving you resist trouble as it is. Not to mention it would take 25 AA to pick up tash. If you are going that way anyway, no biggie I guess, but I would save it for doing that much extra DPS or breaking an immunity instead of mezzing.<div></div><hr></blockquote>If you look at it i expect the game to be more focused on bigger mobs with more HP in the future. And you can already see it coming. There are almost no arrow down mob groups anymore in EoF and i promise you when they pull off the next expansion as real high level content you will have to do exactly that --- tash -> mez It is just right in the eyes of the average dev that enchanters die fast and often =PI am not pulling that stuff out of my butt btw it is how it was in EQ1 and they are going way retro atm anyways.</div>

[The Dark Savant]

On the subject of resists, I haven't had a full duration charm since EOF went live. I've put five points into improved Charm, and even now it seems to break much more often. Am I just getting unlucky, or are others having trouble with charm breaking as well?<div></div>

[Roriondesexiest]

I went to the castle zone off of Loping Plains can't reember the name. hehe there were 6 full groups in there.... Mobs were all 72-73 ^^ and ^^^ linked. I don't think there was one encounter that didn't have resist or two, mainly had issues with initial aoe mez sometimes 2 out of 3 mobs would resist. I did take the AA line that increases subjigation and have lots of + subj gear on, so who know if it helps. On the other hand I haven't looted any of the new gear yet which is useful to coercers, we did get a treasured ring with +32 to wisdom on it. <div></div>

[Vydian]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Dekiri wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Vydian wrote:Oh, and to whoever said to use tashiana before mezzing....give me a break. 1 target, lasts 10 seconds. Won't do crap for the AoE mez and you can just use marred psyche on a single target that is giving you resist trouble as it is. Not to mention it would take 25 AA to pick up tash. If you are going that way anyway, no biggie I guess, but I would save it for doing that much extra DPS or breaking an immunity instead of mezzing.<div></div><hr></blockquote>If you look at it i expect the game to be more focused on bigger mobs with more HP in the future. And you can already see it coming. There are almost no arrow down mob groups anymore in EoF and i promise you when they pull off the next expansion as real high level content you will have to do exactly that --- tash -> mez It is just right in the eyes of the average dev that enchanters die fast and often =PI am not pulling that stuff out of my butt btw it is how it was in EQ1 and they are going way retro atm anyways.</div><hr></blockquote>Maybe, the only problem is that in EQ1, tash was free. It's 25 AA now and has a long enough recast to make a multi mob situation a big headache. I do still think that subjugation gear is going to be top priority for mezzers now and I'm ok with that if the EoF loot tables provide that. I saw 1 or 2 adornments that added +subj too. It just sucks that to do our main job (aside from power regen, hate buffs, etc) we almost HAVE to take the WIS line for the subj increase. It should be a way to ease gear requirements, not necessary to have both.*EDIT* Just saw tash is only 16pts, thats not quite as bad, but still...</div><p>Message Edited by Vydian on <span class=date_text>11-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:30 AM</span>

[Dekiri]

To be honest after some testing i like how it is now. I seem to be using my debuffs a LOT more now and they actually make sense now too. Before the debuffs where just .. well there, but now i get the "YES" feeling from EQ1 again when the initial debuff lands, because it means the mob is screwed.<div></div>

[Flipmode]

I dont know what to tell you guys.  I am having a little more resists on the aoe mez but its not the end of the world.  I do notice that subj finally makes a difference.  I am spec'd agi/wis atm.  Seems the raid parts of the expansion call for some mezzing so I may stay this way.  I just ran through nizara tonight and had little trouble locking down mobs.  The lvl 75 mobs adds at the end resisted me 2 times with 411 subj.  Go figure.

[bodthewiz]

<DIV>This is why I quit my coercer (level 70 by the way) SOE hates the coercer line honestly I played since day one and coercers have been nerfed every patch every new expansion what they have done to coercers is so terrible I dont even have the words to describe it your best bet is to re roll a different toon!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AND THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE TO DEBUFF BEFORE MEZZING WHAT A SICK [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] JOKE THAT IS!</DIV>

[Kyriel]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> bodthewizzy wrote:<BR> <DIV>This is why I quit my coercer (level 70 by the way) SOE hates the coercer line honestly I played since day one and coercers have been nerfed every patch every new expansion what they have done to coercers is so terrible I dont even have the words to describe it your best bet is to re roll a different toon!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AND THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE TO DEBUFF BEFORE MEZZING WHAT A SICK [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] JOKE THAT IS!</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You're ret4rded imo.  You're telling me that we should be able to stun/stifle/mez mobs for the full duration? We were WAY overpowered in the begining. yes we've had our downsided nerfs. But obviously if you're crying about it this much, its better that you quit, because being a coercer takes work, we must adapt to every situation its not a "mash this button, mash that button" class and if you can't even handle a tiny nerf here & there then please, PLEASE do a favor, delete yuor character, and shut the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] up and stop posting here. I love my class, it's more dificult and that is how it should be. Stop [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing and complaing that you want the god [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] world handed to you. Go play pokemon or something.

[bodthewiz]

<P>Zem your a newb and for calling me a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] your even more ignorant than I thought bite me!</P> <P> </P> <P>you obviously havent been playing long</P><p>Message Edited by bodthewizzy on <span class=date_text>11-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:58 AM</span>

[Leawyn]

<P>I used AE and single target mez in EH last night. Tough zone, alot of fun exploring it. I found AE mez to be resisted about as often as it had been before the expansion, thats with subj at 350 (no buffs). To me, it was obviously better than AE mez was behaving in beta just before launch. I now know the reliability of AE mez, and only use it to lock down as many as it will hold until I can get a single target mez on the mobs.</P> <P>Overall, while I'd like to see it dropped to 3% harder, I can live with it as it stands now. Its just a matter of adjusting your strategies now.</P>

[Leawyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> bodthewizzy wrote:<BR> <DIV>This is why I quit my coercer (level 70 by the way) SOE hates the coercer line honestly I played since day one and coercers have been nerfed every patch every new expansion what they have done to coercers is so terrible I dont even have the words to describe it your best bet is to re roll a different toon!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AND THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE TO DEBUFF BEFORE MEZZING WHAT A SICK [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] JOKE THAT IS!</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Sorry for the double post but I just caught a gander at this post. Holy moly, issues much?

[Vydian]

Well, after a few more trips and some other instance running, things don't like quite so bad. My subjugation didn't change, but the resists didn't seem as bad in MM yesterday. Still one or 2 here and there. I'm chalking up the first run to bad luck right now.I'm not against debuffing a mob to make CC land more reliably.....provided I have the time to do so. In Nizara where a group of 4 Flame Claw capable mobs are charging my tank on a pull, I don't have that time, they need to be locked down ASAP. If one gets loose every other pull, we usually manage to stay alive for me to get single targets down, but it would take way to long to put single target debuffs on eveything to keep em locked.I'm hoping the end result of this is that to be good at CC, the WIS line and some modest +subj gear will be sufficient. And I'm fine with that. You can spec for DPS, MT support, soloing etc. Only makes sense that you can now spec to be better at CC than the next guy. It's still a nerf, but now I could be seen as a chanter that gets the job done instead of "Haha, wha..? you took Dreamweaver's Trance? lol"<div></div>

[steelbadger]

So...  the sky ISN'T falling? <span>:smileytongue:</span><div></div>

[Tanatus]

<P>While I wont agrue with statement that Zem iz n00b .... I do agrue with what other n00b said about nerfing coercer.... </P> <P>Coercer class become much better then it was at day 1... Well who the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] care about mezes anyway? You are COERCER not illusionist or bard lol - you have massive array of stuns/stifle/dazes/root. If your group can't kill encounter while AoE/PBAE stuns with follow up Daze lasts ... well you might consider find another group. But back to mez ... Single target mez work JUST FINE with very basic subjugation (well 357 to be precise lol) - I have seen single mez resist... AOE mez it all together different story ... lol I have seen single time this spell has NOT been resisted at least partically. Stuns are fine so far, stifle fine too..</P> <P>Charm ah here is an interesting observation - I DID notice that Total Domination AA DO help - with zero AA in total domination my charms vs. 72 mobs lasted on average 4-5min with Total Domination 4 ? 15-20 min easy</P> <P>As for DPS .. ya we could use some new focis that boost every dot tic by 65 damage or so <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ... I mean more foci's like that</P>

[Mystfit]

Sorry, I popped in to learn a bit about the class. Massive Noob newbie coercer, but i wanted to ask a question about something mentioned in this thread..debuff then mezz? Why not mezz then debuff? Are the debuffs waking them up?

[zormik]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> STCardGeek wrote:<BR> Sorry, I popped in to learn a bit about the class. Massive Noob newbie coercer, but i wanted to ask a question about something mentioned in this thread..debuff then mezz? Why not mezz then debuff? Are the debuffs waking them up?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>No debuffs don't wake them up.  But hitting the debuff first is to make sure your mezzes will land.  The topic as about how hard it was for mezzes to land and o make it easier they suggested, you could debuff the mob so it lowers his resists and the mezz would land easier ...</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by zormik on <span class=date_text>11-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:14 PM</span>

[Rahatmattata]

<P>The only suck thing is when your debuff gets resisted so you probably should have just mezzed it first anyway. I have a lowbie coercer, and upgraded some key spells to master1. My subjegation is naturally capped (no special +sub gear, AA, etc). At the low levels resists are insane (in Crushbone Keep anyway). I've noticed FG is nice and playable, more resists than before LU, but still blue mobs are nice and controlable as they should be (with master control spells). Crushbone Keep is hell; resist happen way too much even with Master1 mez and aoe mez. Syballint (sp) M2 is 28% harder (I think) and was getting resisted very very often on debuffed (marr app4) blue mobs 2 levels lower than me. It's just resist city and frustrating as hell. Had my mez bounce off a lite blue mob 4 freakin times. It wouldn't be such a pain in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] if the recast was lowered after a resist IMO, or if they just nerfed the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] mob resists a bit (at least in that particular zone). </P> <P>I only have 8 AAs, and I plan to go agi and sta (I like the % to crit heals, and deaggro except fighters). It would take quite a while to build up the AAs to reach the subjegation one in the wis line and you have to suffer with the resists until then anyway. Not to mention there's absolutly nothing in the wis line that appeals to me. I don't know about the higher levels, except what you guys say on these boards, but roll a new enchanter, level to 30 and come back and say everything is peachy-keen. The low levels are really sucking [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] right now.</P>

[Mr. Dawki]

<P>I had to respec my aa's to go down the wisdom line for subjugation things dont resist my mez anymore but its very angering when i see an illusionist self buff himself and have more subjugation than me as well as more dps</P>

[Toredorf]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mr. Dawkins wrote:<BR> <P>I had to respec my aa's to go down the wisdom line for subjugation things dont resist my mez anymore but its very angering when i see an illusionist self buff himself and have more subjugation than me as well as more dps</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>want dps make a necro/conj or a scout. We are Crowd Control and with Nizara and Castle mismoore SoE have make two places for us to have fun...... Beside i do 800 dps averange in new raids (max 1050) in the main tank group, wis and sta.... with coercing line from EoF.<BR>

[Sonaht]

<div>I've noticed this also. My charms seem to break more often than before even with 5 AP's put into the improvement. I don't know about full duration charms because I don't often trust them enough to let them run out.<blockquote><hr>The Dark Savant wrote:On the subject of resists, I haven't had a full duration charm since EOF went live. I've put five points into improved Charm, and even now it seems to break much more often. Am I just getting unlucky, or are others having trouble with charm breaking as well?<div></div><hr></blockquote></div>