I wonder what they did with charm in new combat change

[Meio]

<b>Spells, Combat Arts, and Quality Levels</b> •    The spell variables for Adept III, Master I, and Master II spells and combat arts have been lowered to conform to the new combat mechanics, mob difficulty, and philosophy of diminishing returns. •    The spell variable gaps for Adept III, Master I, and Master II spells have been narrowed.  <b>This ensures that an Adept III of a higher level upgrade spell is always better than a lower level Master I version. </b> Do they also change charm spells ? If they do, have they nerfed master1 or up adept3 ? Anyone on test have master1 charm ? <div></div>

[Flipmode]

With all the bragging some of these folks did, is there any doubt its nerfed?

[Korpo]

Changing the scaling of every single spell in the entire game can hardly be blamed on people bragging about charmed mob damage.<div></div>

[Outerspace]

<div></div>There were a few spells where the lower level Master is better than the higher level Adept 3 - like Velocity Master compared with Impetus Adept 3. If I'm not mistaken they are the same.Charm quality determines the level of the CA's used by the mobs we charm: the only current difference between charms is the duration and it is always the case that lower level charms are worse than higher level variants in this regard.Maybe they wont touch it <span>:smileyindifferent:</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Outerspace on <span class=date_text>11-02-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:24 AM</span>

[Thibor24]

<P>It looks like if you had master charm youve been nerfed slightly.</P> <P>If you had ad3 youve been upgraded slightly.</P> <P>As i never found domination for a good price this is ok for me</P> <P> </P> <P>Its a bit of a shame as there will be less reason to find masters and with diminishing returns less reason to raid.</P>

[Aoi]

<blockquote><hr>Flipmode wrote:<div></div>With all the bragging some of these folks did, is there any doubt its nerfed?<hr></blockquote>This post is hardly proof that anything has been nerfed This sounds much like the panic that ensued when people saw the new verbiage about "reduced effectiveness on on targets over level x", thinking that it meant lower level charms were nerfed....when actually it meant the mes on charm break. Cyene<div></div>

[The Dark Savant]

Just theorizing here:It seems to me that the impact of this change on the Charm spells will depend on whether the new variable range impacts NPC CAs as well as player ones. Whichever method they use to change the variable ranges will then likely have an equal effect on the charmed mob; if Adept 3s are buffed, Adept 3 charmed pets will do more damage.f Master is left unchanged, then Master charmed NPCs will still do the same CA damage they do now. If by "narrowing the gaps" they mean "nerfing Master 1", and they use that scaling on NPCs CAs, then Master charmed pets will do less damage than they do now. I can't see SOE doing a global nerf of Master spells, but I suppose it's possible.<div></div>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>As I see that ...</DIV> <DIV>Most likely final charm left intact but ! lower level charm been nerfed dearly. </DIV> <DIV>Aka now I presume mobs charmed with Adept 3 Domination will do more damage then mob charmed with M1 Dominate ... that is kinda logical</DIV>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

Charm doesn't have anything in the description that talks about damage at all. There's nothing in the actual charm spell that determines damage between low level versions and high level versions.The "effect" of the spell is to make it so the NPC uses his abilities at the same quality. There's no "quantifying" that. Simply put, higher level NPCs will do more damage because THEY are higher level, not the spell.However, ALL NPCs are having their Combat Arts/Spells altered just like everyone else, so in that roundabout way, we will see a difference on the damage our pets are doing. But that's simply a by-product of the global scaling change that's affecting all abilities used, as well as autoattack, etc.So we will see a difference, but lower level charms will still operate the same as they do now.They would have to do something completely different to change the effectiveness of the lower level spells. It can be done, and I know how to, but I'm not about to give them any ideas, just on the off chance they hadn't conidered it.<div></div>

[Venzule]

<P>Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah.....</P> <P> </P> <P>You all have no clue, you can theorize all you want, get on the test server and check it out, then come and post the results.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[The Dark Savant]

That would be be the best solution, sure, but wouldn't it be difficult to get a Master charm on Test?<div></div>

[Venzule]

<DIV>Probably as easy as a regular server.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> The Dark Savant wrote:<BR>That would be be the best solution, sure, but wouldn't it be difficult to get a Master charm on Test?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV>

[Aoi]

<blockquote><hr>Venzule wrote:<div></div> <p>Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah.....</p> <p>You all have no clue, you can theorize all you want, get on the test server and check it out, then come and post the results.</p> <hr></blockquote>All the "theorizing" sure added more to this thread than your post did...and I'm sure all the long time Coercers who have given you invaluable advice on other posts just love to hear you rant. Cyene<div></div>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

Not to mention some of us who might have had a chance to actually playtest, weren't allowed to answer until the day after that post.As far as I've seen,nothing verbally has been changed in the spell (from linking the master in beta). I don't have access to the master yet for physical testing... hmm.. wonder if I can copy more than one character over to beta?If there were any coercers copied over that could do some testing and report in, that'd be awesome.<div></div>

[Venzule]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aoine wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Venzule wrote:<BR> <P>Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah.....</P> <P> </P> <P>You all have no clue, you can theorize all you want, get on the test server and check it out, then come and post the results.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>All the "theorizing" sure added more to this thread than your post did...and I'm sure all the long time Coercers who have given you invaluable advice on other posts just love to hear you rant.<BR><BR>Cyene<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I hear from a very reputable source on the test server that when you cast Charm on mobs now YOU get charmed and the mob can now use you as a pet.</P> <P> </P> <P>There, ive added to this thread.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Flipmode]

I am happy to report that from my tests currently in Beta that charm appears to be fine.  Most of the mobs are charm are still doing their same level of damage.  Tests were done with M1 Domination.

[Aoi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Flipmode wrote:<BR> I am happy to report that from my tests currently in Beta that charm appears to be fine.  Most of the mobs are charm are still doing their same level of damage.  Tests were done with M1 Domination.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Thanks for checking it Flip, excellent news!</P> <P>Cyene</P>

[Meio]

<blockquote><hr>Flipmode wrote:<div></div>I am happy to report that from my tests currently in Beta that charm appears to be fine.  Most of the mobs are charm are still doing their same level of damage.  Tests were done with M1 Domination.<hr></blockquote>Could you make a test with a beta buffed coercer with adept3 spells, if the difference between adept3 and master1 domination is still the same ?<div></div>

[Roriondesexiest]

I would be more interested if there is any change between M1 Dominate (which I have) and M1 Domination (which I refuse to pay 50 plat for...) <div></div>

[Ibunubi]

<P>I very briefly tested if there was any difference between M1 Dominate and M1 Domination ... I saw no noticeable difference in spell damage. I couldn't test further because I was being attacked (I rolled Beta PvP).</P> <P>I charmed the same mob using both spells, and both nuked about the same ~2.5k, give or take.</P> <P>Thank goodness... But I do not know how Adept 3 has been affected.</P>

[Fael]

If Masters havent been affected, then Adept IIIs have to have been upped.  You cant narrow a gap without altering the one or the other.Honestly the difference power between Master charms and Adept IIIs is the reason I wont bother to play a Coercer.From the way you describe it, Im a bit confused though.  If Adept III with be more powerful than Master I, and the last two charms are dealing the same damage, you cant quite fit an Adept III between the two.Something to do with the mob level you're charming I guess.  Its capped?I was thinking before you mentioned this that Master would still allow mobs to nuke for x3 damage of Adept III, as people have stated before.  And the lower level Master would do 90% of the higher level Adept III, or something like that.  Well either way I like the narrowing of power bit.Might just have to create some Coercers again.<div></div>

[Aoi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Faelos wrote:<BR>If Masters havent been affected, then Adept IIIs have to have been upped.  You cant narrow a gap without altering the one or the other.<BR>Honestly the difference power between Master charms and Adept IIIs is the reason I wont bother to play a Coercer.<BR><BR>From the way you describe it, Im a bit confused though.  If Adept III with be more powerful than Master I, and the last two charms are dealing the same damage, you cant quite fit an Adept III between the two.<BR>Something to do with the mob level you're charming I guess.  Its capped?<BR><BR>I was thinking before you mentioned this that Master would still allow mobs to nuke for x3 damage of Adept III, as people have stated before.  And the lower level Master would do 90% of the higher level Adept III, or something like that.  Well either way I like the narrowing of power bit.<BR><BR>Might just have to create some Coercers again.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>As I think someone stated earlier in this post, this very likely has more to do with spells like Impetus (where the previous master is equal or better than the current AD3) than charm.</P> <P>Charm has always been an anomaly, and really doesn't fall into that category, since technically speaking, Coerce Master 1 is better than Domination AD3.</P> <P>Just a guess, but the history of drastic spell changes ignoring Coercer charm is on my side (i.e. charms not having verbiage that most spells have about affecting mobs over a certain level, etc.)</P> <P>Cyene</P>

[Venzule]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Faelos wrote:<BR>If Masters haven't been affected, then Adept IIIs have to have been upped.  You cant narrow a gap without altering the one or the other.<BR><FONT color=#ffff00>Honestly the difference power between Master charms and Adept IIIs is the reason I wont bother to play a Coercer.<BR></FONT><BR>From the way you describe it, Im a bit confused though.  If Adept III with be more powerful than Master I, and the last two charms are dealing the same damage, you cant quite fit an Adept III between the two.<BR>Something to do with the mob level you're charming I guess.  Its capped?<BR><BR>I was thinking before you mentioned this that Master would still allow mobs to nuke for x3 damage of Adept III, as people have stated before.  And the lower level Master would do 90% of the higher level Adept III, or something like that.  Well either way I like the narrowing of power bit.<BR><BR>Might just have to create some Coercers again.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Cool with me.  There are plenty of other classes to play, because im sure you are going to be disappointed finding out that Adept III will be no where near as powerful of any version of Master I charm come patch day.</P> <P> </P> <P>What are you going to do with that disappointment is the question though.... come onto the forums and whine along with the other Nerf herders until it gets nerfed or deal with it?</P> <P> </P> <P>Coercer charm line is fine the way it is and I see no reason for a change.  Asking for such is going to nerf the entire spell line.</P> <P> </P> <P>If you cant handle the idea that you need to get Master versions of charm to play a Coercer (That are easily obtainable for cheaper than Necro Pet Spells) than go play another class.</P> <P> </P> <P>The only thing I see that makes sense in your post is that Charm Master I is better than Domination Adept III.    This is the case and hardly the case at the same time.  If your going to use Charm Master I and level 60+ mobs you will die ALOT!   5 min charm with no chance the stun will stick when charm breaks in the middle of fighting 2 level 60+ mobs???   Dead....</P> <P>But I also agree,  the power of the charm shouldn't be more powerful than Adept III of Domination.   My advice:  Remove the Master I spells for Charm from the game.   Adept III is the best you can get for Charm.  Leave the other Masters Alone.</P> <P> </P> <P>#1 problem with MMO's.  Players have no patience and want everything NOW!.  Take the time to get the Master version of charm and you will be rewarded for your effort.....  but nooooooo.... they want it NOW!</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Edit: <FONT color=#ffff00>By the way,  I love the idea that you dont play a Coercer yet you are here to whine for changes to our spell line.  Go back to your class forums and get it nerfed.</FONT>  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P><BR> </P> <P>Message Edited by Venzule on <SPAN class=date_text>11-10-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:52 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Venzule on <span class=date_text>11-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:53 AM</span>

[ca]

<P>I Beta copied my 35 coercer to test, ran to feerott and charmed a evol ewe mender, the damage numbers went down by maybe 15 points of damage average, overall the soloing was actually a tiny bit easier now since the mobs had stat reductions too, also managed to pull a full duration charm on the lvl 40 mender using my M1 beguile.</P> <P>After this I went to the beta buffer and got buffed to lvl 70 full relic gear and extras, giving me some nice stats, I had a crafter make me an adept 3 domination and I went to bonemire to test on corpse candles since I absolutly cannot wait to charm these on live, I don't have any damage parses on ACT saved since I have never charmed these so I had to base it on what I have seen in these forums, the adept 3 domination was averaging @ 4-5k on the big hits by CC then I switched to the master 1 Dominate and the average went up to 5.5-7k with once in a while seeing a hit for as much as 8k, I was fully debuffing the mobs. Like I said I have no experience with this before hand but compared to the mid level experience I do have it would seem to me the master still does more damage but the gap from adept 3 to M1 has been narrowed, adept 3 appears to be better (a wee bit) than it was before, master seems unchanged except for the overall reduction in stats to everything in the game.</P> <P>Now if only a CORPSE candle could be charmed by my necro the world would be a better place.</P>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

The only difference we will see in damage between adept 3s and master 1s will be between the MOBS newly adjusted spell/art damage.The charm spell doesn't have an actual damage modifier, so it is not part of the change. It's not like adept3s of lower level +dps being better than adept 1s of higher level versions.... there just no numbers to go by.So all in all, unless they drastically change how charm works, it's going to work exactly the same with only the MOB's difference in power being noticed.<div></div>