Question for our chanter brothers/sisters

[Roriondesexiest]

No joke I have been in 2 or 3 in the last few days, one on my coercer and others were on my various alts where I suggested we grab an illusionist  and at least one person in the group has said, don't grab them they can't do anything... Well I start to explain the need for mezzing and power regen but then I don't know what to say because I don't know exactly what an illusionist does. I know you get a haste buff, where coercer gets dps buff. I assume you get power regen but not sure how it compares. I know you have the persona spell but not sure what that does exactly. /shame on me for not knowing but can someone explain?  <div></div>

[Cersiana]

<P>I know you get a haste buff, where coercer gets dps buff.<BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#99ff99 size=2>They also get a caster buff that adds a proc. Decreases hate too I believe.</FONT></P> <P><BR>I assume you get power regen but not sure how it compares.<BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#99ff99 size=2>They only lack a spell equal to beholders eye tho they can cast a spell that decreases the amount of power used.</FONT></P> <P><BR>I know you have the persona spell but not sure what that does exactly.<BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#99ff99 size=2>Basically supposta mimc their spells tho even I'm not certain here. It's really just extra dps it can ae ect. </FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#99ff99 size=2>Thats all I know while half asleep off teh top of my head I'd really like to know more myself.</FONT></P> <P> </P>

[ximo]

Hello! I play both a Coercer and an Illusionist (only up to level 55 I hasten to add!), (made ilusionist way back and more recently played coercer too - I go through phases of playing them lol).Yep illus gets haste buff instead of DPS and a proc for caster types (pet or self during solo if wanted)Illus power regen isn't quite as good as coercer: as well as the minds eye line our single DOT doesnt return us any power either (ok thats not group mana regen I guess) Also my coercer has a short mana regen buff (devouring thoughts line) which I guess replaces the illus fleeting thoughts line (short INT buff)The pet is meant to be a slightly weaker copy of yourself (although mine always seems to take more hits than me?!) It inherits some of your DPS spells and your control spells, so it will root, stun, stifle etc also. It uses 3 conc as does a coercer pet but doesnt break or expire. It might not be as powerful as some pets my corecer can charm but its reliable and efficient.I don't have the facts and figures but think illus dps is slightly more? It certainly seems it, but then if some of my coercers reactives went off more?To me at least my coercer feels like the more challenging enchanter and illus slightly easier and more offensive, but thats just my opinion from playing both..I can't say I've noticed a difference in getting groups, but it still makes me chuckle to myself when my Coercer still occasionally gets mistaken for a healer. (used to happen more in the days of Enchanter subclass too) :-p

[Roriondesexiest]

I will say again you have the best sig I have ever seen....  And thanks for the info. <div></div>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<DIV>Illusionists actually do better in the power regen department.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We both get the same Clarity line. We both get the power heal line (gorging thoughts for coercer). Coercers get an additional Beholder's Eye spell.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The problem is that the Coercer's Clarity and Beholder's Eye will max out the spell power regen (at level 70 it's 52), without even being mastered. Which means anything extra is coming from the power <STRONG>heal</STRONG> from our Gorging Thoughts line.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The illusionist's version of the power heal ticks every 4s instead of every 6s, and gives more power. So while a person is at maxed spell regen, illusionists can give more power heals.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's a slight edge though, and only very apparent when you stack a bard and an enchanter together (bard increases spell power regen, not power heals).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for damage, the only reason their damage is higher is because their damage spells depend on the player hitting the mob. Coercer's depend on the mob hitting the player.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The stronger, more numerous and more AoE causing Mob, the more damage we end up doing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just the things I've noticed from my Illusionist brothers.</DIV>

[Korpo]

<div><blockquote><hr>Raidi Sovin'faile wrote:<div>Illusionists actually do better in the power regen department.</div> <div> </div> <div>We both get the same Clarity line. We both get the power heal line (gorging thoughts for coercer). Coercers get an additional Beholder's Eye spell.</div> <div> </div> <div>The problem is that the Coercer's Clarity and Beholder's Eye will max out the spell power regen (at level 70 it's 52), without even being mastered. Which means anything extra is coming from the power <strong>heal</strong> from our Gorging Thoughts line.</div><hr></blockquote>Wrong.In combat regen max is level * 1.5, 105 at level 70. Of that, half can come from items, so you could have a bunch of items that add up to FT52 or 53, not sure which.There's no limit on the amount that can come from spells, other than the hard cap of 105. If you assume that everyone in your group is running around with 53/tick power regen from items, then yes part of the Coercer power regen is going to be wasted. Howerver, that's rarely the case.</div>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<P>When I'm with a dirge in the group, I get no difference whatsoever if I put up Beholder's Eye on my display for regen. When he has it off, then Beholder's Eye will increase my regen <EM>to a point</EM>.</P> <P>I know what the Dev's say, and maybe intend, but what it is actually doing in game is not the case.</P>

[Korpo]

Tested tonight, I stripped naked and stood next to the guild dirge<font face="Arial"> while fighting a level 1 spider. I have M1 Ease (41/tick) and Beholder's Eye (14.6), she has M1 Bria's (46).8 because I'm "Tier 8" (Does not count towards 105 cap)5 + 5 because of traits and training things (Does count towards 105 cap)Regen with no buffs = 18/tickBeholder's = 33Ease = 59Bria's = 64Ease + Beholder's = 74Bria's + Beholder's = 79Ease + Bria's = 105Ease + Bria's + Beholder's = 113Looks like everything is working just fine to me. The reason you get less than the full 15 out of Beholder's is that 41 + 46 + 15 + 5 + 5 = 112.</font><div></div>

[Roriondesexiest]

<DIV>hehe, I don't care whose power regen is better, just want to know what makes illusionists different from coercers.  What abilities do they have that we don't?</DIV>

[Korpo]

Instead of the DPS buff line, they get a haste buff line. The haste buffs are a bit less than the DPS buffs.Instead of the dehate and spell reflect line, they get a spell proc and dehate.Instead of the single target magic resist debuff, they get a single target offensive skills debuff (crush, slash, etc.).Instead of the Auspex line, they get a buff that goes on an ally that procs damage three times.Instead of the INT debuff and power heal, they get a power drain and power heal.Instead of AE fear and dehate, they get AE mez and dehate.Instead of the AE stun and nuke from Sonic Boom, they get group stifle and dot.Instead of charm, they get a pet that nukes, roots, stifles, etc.Instead of being able to mez while stunned, their mez can't be interrupted.They get a second single target mez.They get a temporary huge INT and cast skill buff.They get group invis.They get a funny little dumbfire pet that explodes and stifles or something like that.We get the Tyrranical Mind and Spell Scourge lines.We get a hate buff.They get Savante (reduces power cost of spells/CAs for a short time), Illusory Allies (makes a "copy" of the group that distracts the enemy), and Spellshield (reflects a spell back at an enemy).We get Mindbend, Amnesia, and Channel.I'm sure there's more, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head.<div></div>

[Cersiana]

<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#99ff99 size=2>I've never had a problem with spell regens capping. You can tell a complete difference in when one of my main regen spells are down and when they are not. I almost have capped ft as well.. I personally dont believe if its supposta or not that spell regen and gear regen are capped by the same things.. the whatever times lvl applies to FT not spell regens.</FONT></DIV>

[Korpo]

<blockquote><hr>Cersiana wrote:<div><font color="#99ff99" face="Comic Sans MS" size="2">I've never had a problem with spell regens capping. You can tell a complete difference in when one of my main regen spells are down and when they are not. I almost have capped ft as well.. I personally dont believe if its supposta or not that spell regen and gear regen are capped by the same things.. the whatever times lvl applies to FT not spell regens.</font></div><hr></blockquote>... Look above. I can post a huge pile of screenshots, but those are the numbers right out of my UI that show regen. It definitely shows that regen caps, and it definitely shows that it caps at the place it should be capping. Put on a bunch of FT gear, stand next to a bard with your regens running, and you will still only regen 113/tick, no matter what you do. You can believe purple fairies live in your kitchen, but that doesn't make it true.<div></div>

[Mordion89]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> korpo53 wrote:<BR>Instead of the DPS buff line, they get a haste buff line. The haste buffs are a bit less than the DPS buffs.<BR>Instead of the dehate and spell reflect line, they get a spell proc and dehate.<BR>Instead of the single target magic resist debuff, they get a single target offensive skills debuff (crush, slash, etc.).<BR>Instead of the Auspex line, they get a buff that goes on an ally that procs damage three times.<BR>Instead of the INT debuff and power heal, they get a power drain and power heal.<BR>Instead of AE fear and dehate, they get AE mez and dehate.<BR>Instead of the AE stun and nuke from Sonic Boom, they get group stifle and dot.<BR>Instead of charm, they get a pet that nukes, roots, stifles, etc.<BR>Instead of being able to mez while stunned, their mez can't be interrupted.<BR><BR>They get a second single target mez.<BR>They get a temporary huge INT and cast skill buff.<BR>They get group invis.<BR>They get a funny little dumbfire pet that explodes and stifles or something like that.<BR>We get the Tyrranical Mind and Spell Scourge lines.<BR>We get a hate buff.<BR><BR>They get Savante (reduces power cost of spells/CAs for a short time), Illusory Allies (makes a "copy" of the group that distracts the enemy), and Spellshield (reflects a spell back at an enemy).<BR>We get Mindbend, Amnesia, and Channel.<BR><BR>I'm sure there's more, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>besides these</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Their root has additional stifle, ours is daze</DIV> <DIV>Their power drain is instant drain, ours is drain over time</DIV> <DIV>Their resist buff buffs more magic/divine, ours buff more mental</DIV> <DIV>They buff int and wis, we buff int and agi</DIV> <DIV>They buff attack speed, we buff dps</DIV> <DIV>Their encounter stun duration shorter/recast faster, ours duration long/ recast longer</DIV> <DIV>Their daze is single target/longer duration, ours is encounter wide/recast longer</DIV> <DIV>Our encounter mez cost thoughtstone, theirs dont</DIV> <DIV>Our single target nuke has interupt component, theirs do more dmg? or lower power cost? not sure <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV>Our possession sucks, their phase doesn't XD</DIV> <DIV><BR>theres some more minor ones like dot/encounter dot difference</DIV>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<div><blockquote><hr>korpo53 wrote:Tested tonight, I stripped naked and stood next to the guild dirge<font face="Arial"> while fighting a level 1 spider. I have M1 Ease (41/tick) and Beholder's Eye (14.6), she has M1 Bria's (46).8 because I'm "Tier 8" (Does not count towards 105 cap)5 + 5 because of traits and training things (Does count towards 105 cap)Regen with no buffs = 18/tickBeholder's = 33Ease = 59Bria's = 64Ease + Beholder's = 74Bria's + Beholder's = 79Ease + Bria's = 105Ease + Bria's + Beholder's = 113Looks like everything is working just fine to me. The reason you get less than the full 15 out of Beholder's is that 41 + 46 + 15 + 5 + 5 = 112.</font><div></div><hr></blockquote>Hmm...I was going by the UI given data that comes from SOE... and after looking up some info on it, apparently it isn't even working properly.I'll admit, I hadn't done actual empirical testing like I had when testing if FT stacked... so I'll go by your results over something SOE brokenly added to the game, lol.And thanks for reminding me of the regen traits. I need to go respec that sometime for total power.</div>

[Cersiana]

<P><FONT color=#99ff99 size=2>Hate to tell you but my UI shows it too and guess what.. No matter what my UI shows watching myself I can tell the difference. Maybe this is just me or SOE really has broke it butI can't help what I've seen myself. I know what the UI says I have profit UI and it says all the same junk too... And fyi I like the fairies in my kitchen.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#99ff99 size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#99ff99 size=2>edit to add.  I have a 56 fury with 229 regen on the profit ui... </FONT></P><p>Message Edited by Cersiana on <span class=date_text>10-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:35 PM</span>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>1 more but important thing</DIV> <DIV>Coecer can cast mez in any condition of coercer as long as coercer not dead.... Illusionist can't cast mez while been mezed, stunned, stifled</DIV>

[ximo]

you are quite right about coercer being able to cast mez when stunned etc, however, when playing my ilus I love to be able to cast mez while running.....

[Tanatus]

I use to able do that all the time with my stun <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> aka cast stun on the run

[Korpo]

<div><blockquote><hr>Cersiana wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <p><font color="#99ff99" size="2">Hate to tell you but my UI shows it too and guess what.. No matter what my UI shows watching myself I can tell the difference. Maybe this is just me or SOE really has broke it butI can't help what I've seen myself. I know what the UI says I have profit UI and it says all the same junk too... And fyi I like the fairies in my kitchen.</font></p> <p><font color="#99ff99" size="2"></font> </p> <p><font color="#99ff99" size="2">edit to add.  I have a 56 fury with 229 regen on the profit ui... </font></p><p>Message Edited by Cersiana on <span class="date_text">10-21-2006</span> <span class="time_text">05:35 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Then back it up with proof. "It feels like I have more power" is entirely useless without any numbers, screenshots, or anything else.That's nice about your fury, maybe when he gets to 70 he'll learn the difference between in-combat (what we're talking about here) and out of combat (what we're not talking about).</div>

[Crono1321]

Main differences between coercer and illusionist Illusionist gets Spell shield (reflects spells back at caster with high %) Synergism - dmg proc for spells Melee Debuff Personae pet vs Charm Haste Mez while running .5 second casting addional mez Point blank Mez (vs coercer pbae fear) Savante vs Beholder's Eye--56% less power consumed when active I think those are most of them...I'd take synergism over link, spellshield over...w/e our equivalent is...and a third and FOURTH mez over our god awful ae fear. <div></div>