Calculation of harmonious link with amends

[Mordion89]

<DIV>Does the harmonious link's deaggro get counted before or after amends' hate transfer or both calculated together?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>for example, theres a wizard at the group, the paladin amends the wizard, and i cast harmonious link on the wizard, will the wizard's 41% hate be transfered to paladin first, then the rest of the 59% get further reduced by harmonious link's 23%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>or</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>will the wizard's hate get reduced by 23%, then the rest of the 77% hate get transfered 41% to paladin? if so, it's better not to cast link on wizard as it will cause paladin's total hate to reduce too</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>or</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>will the wizard's 100% hate get reduced by 64%(41%+23%) and still 41% of the true hate(before deaggro) transfered to paladin?</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN>  <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN>  <P><SPAN class=time_text>ps: pls don't comment on simply don't cast the link on the wizard etc. this post is to get clarification on the calculation</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Mordion89 on <span class=date_text>09-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:48 PM</span>

[AdiX__Styxx__]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mordion89 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Does the harmonious link's deaggro get counted before or after amends' hate transfer or both calculated together?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>for example, theres a wizard at the group, the paladin amends the wizard, and i cast harmonious link on the wizard, will the wizard's 41% hate be transfered to paladin first, then the rest of the 59% get further reduced by harmonious link's 23%</DIV> <DIV>or</DIV> <DIV>will the wizard's hate get reduced by 23%, then the rest of the 77% hate get transfered 41% to paladin? if so, it's better not to cast link on wizard as it will cause paladin's total hate to reduce too</DIV> <DIV>or</DIV> <DIV>will the wizard's 100% hate get reduced by 64%(41%+23%) and still 41% of the true hate(before deaggro) transfered to paladin?</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text>ps: pls don't comment on simply don't cast the link on the wizard etc. this post is to get clarification on the calculation</SPAN> <P>Message Edited by Mordion89 on <SPAN class=date_text>09-24-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:48 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>None of the above actually at least unless soe has fixed it! There was a thread about this in the ranger forum but a tad different in a way that the dehate buff of the ranger would actually bug amends to not make it work at all!</P> <P>Now this thread was very old.... so if soe has fixed it then it should be like this first the agroe reducer and whats left goes tru amends hope this helps altough i cant be 100% if its been fixed or not!</P>

[Crono1321]

Amends is not a deaggro, its a transfer.  The modifier goes on first, then the transfer is applied afterwords.  <div></div>

[Flipmode]

Not to mention its just plum stupid to put harmoniuous link on a wizzy with amends.  You want the pally to get his hate, so dont reduce it.

[Mordion89]

<P>thx for the reply all, except flipmode, if u wanna post something, make it constructive, didnt you see that i put the comment on dont reply on "not to cast on it wizard" etc. because the purpose of this post is not to ask whether to cast it or not<BR></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Flipmode wrote:<BR> <P>Not to mention its just plum stupid to put harmoniuous link on a wizzy with amends.  You want the pally to get his hate, so dont reduce it.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>then don't mention</P>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

It's a silly comment also because not all pallies are tanking.It's rather common on our raids to have the pally amends a "hate-hotspot" in the group, even though they aren't the MT. I'll put Harmonious Link on the hotspot with that setup, and the Pally too if I have the slots free. The wizard ends up with a lot more DPS potential out of the exchange, and the pally can survive a hit or two if too much aggro is built.<div></div>

[AdiX__Styxx__]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crono1321 wrote:<BR>Amends is not a deaggro, its a transfer.  The modifier goes on first, then the transfer is applied afterwords.  <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>That amends is not a deagroe isnt true but hat yer saying is also true! Its a deagroe for teh wizzy since hate gets siphoned away to the paladin this means he creates less agroe meaning deagroe....but since its siphoning its also a transfer!</P> <P>And yes the modifier (should) goes first but if there is a siphon on ya like amends after ya modify the hate ya create....the amends line on occasion doesnt work at all! This is a bug that occasionally used to happen if i still had the logs from my ranger to prove it i would post em or put a link but i dont!</P> <P>Also like i stated above this bug is a very old one i dont know if it has been fixed yet. It might have and it should work as the above poster stated : deagro (link) first then the transfer to the pally!</P> <P>oh and about harmoious link on the wizzy / pally i would put it on the paladin because of this bug and on the raids ive been our paladin has died a buncha times cause our warlock went nuts wiht 2 k dps and gained agroe cuase of his own 500 dps on top of that! so deagroing the pally in this setting isnt too bad!</P>

[Crono1321]

<blockquote><hr>AdiX__Styxx__ wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Crono1321 wrote:Amends is not a deaggro, its a transfer.  The modifier goes on first, then the transfer is applied afterwords.  <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>That amends is not a deagroe isnt true but hat yer saying is also true! Its a deagroe for teh wizzy since hate gets siphoned away to the paladin this means he creates less agroe meaning deagroe....</p><hr></blockquote>Now you're just mincing words.<div></div>

[FininCuthalion]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Raidi Sovin'faile schrieb:It's a silly comment also because not all pallies are tanking.It's rather common on our raids to have the pally amends a "hate-hotspot" in the group, even though they aren't the MT. I'll put Harmonious Link on the hotspot with that setup, and the Pally too if I have the slots free. The wizard ends up with a lot more DPS potential out of the exchange, and the pally can survive a hit or two if too much aggro is built.<div></div><hr></blockquote>/agree.I'm using this combo also from time to time.In general, I think at first the aggro-modifier will do their work, than the transfer spells. But I'm not sure,... :pUsually in raid MT group, this combo does not occur (in my raid setups, at least) </div><p>Nachricht bearbeitet von FininCuthalion am <span class=date_text>09-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:06 AM</span>

[Mordion89]

<DIV>how about when link is cast on paladin instead? still harmonious link deaggro work first, then the additional hate from amends get added? or recieve transfered hate first then reduce by link?</DIV>

[FininCuthalion]

<div><blockquote><hr>Mordion89 schrieb:<div>how about when link is cast on paladin instead? still harmonious link deaggro work first, then the additional hate from amends get added? or recieve transfered hate first then reduce by link?</div><hr size="2" width="100%"></blockquote>I don't know, but it's also a option to cast it on the paladin, if you don't want him to get aggro all the time, because of the angry wizard who got amends.</div>

[Tanatus]

Wizards are usually way to low on DPS ladder to waste amends on em - bridands and warlock are main agro magnets

[Korpo]

Our pally never gets agro, even with Amends on a warlock or wizard or whatever else. It probably has to do with the fact that he's a complete idiot and a waste of a raid spot, but at least he can rez.<div></div>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>bah trade him somebody for dirge ....</DIV>

[Korpo]

Heck, trade him for a necro kicking out ungodly DPS.<div></div>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crono1321 wrote:<BR>Amends is not a deaggro, its a transfer.  The modifier goes on first, then the transfer is applied afterwords.  <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>wrong.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>if a paly is MT and has amends on the wizard you will want to use Harmonious link on the wizard.  Because even as mt with amends the wizard can still pull agro and die.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What actually happens is the total hate is transferred, 41% to paly, then the total hate is reduced by the modifier, then that figure is reduced from the remaining hate on the wizard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>100 % total hate</DIV> <DIV>41% to paly</DIV> <DIV>59% left on wizard - 23% harmonious = 36% hate gain by wizard and 41% hate to paly which = always more hate to paly that wizard accrues.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>as long as I'm within amends transfer range (30m) I can pull mobs with nukes and they go straight to the paly without him applying any taunts.</DIV>

[Cersiana]

<DIV>I ust abe a ranger and yes our self hate debuff usta screw up amends Lol. While as I never really put much thought into it I've always heard that the decreaser is applied first. Since my raids include both a aggo hungry warlock and wizard rarely would one ever get the chance to have both Amends and Link. So to be specific fromwhat it says.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Link - Decreases hate gain </DIV> <DIV>Amends - Absorbs hate form anotehr target.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Link would go fist since it decreases the hate actually gained, then amends would draw off of what was left since link stops part of the actual gain. You can't gain hate thats not there so decreased hate gain means you wouldn't get it in the first place for amends to draw off it... Someone should get a dev in here to explain how they actually have it happen because even with considering teh wording doesn't mean it works that way it is SOE after all !!</DIV><p>Message Edited by Cersiana on <span class=date_text>10-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:11 PM</span>

[Crono1321]

<blockquote><hr>Cersiana wrote:<div></div> <div>I ust abe a ranger and yes our self hate debuff usta screw up amends Lol. While as I never really put much thought into it I've always heard that the decreaser is applied first. Since my raids include both a aggo hungry warlock and wizard rarely would one ever get the chance to have both Amends and Link. So to be specific fromwhat it says.</div> <div> </div> <div>Link - Decreases hate gain </div> <div>Amends - Absorbs hate form anotehr target.</div> <div> </div> <div>Link would go fist since it decreases the hate actually gained, then amends would draw off of what was left since link stops part of the actual gain. You can't gain hate thats not there so decreased hate gain means you wouldn't get it in the first place for amends to draw off it... Someone should get a dev in here to explain how they actually have it happen because even with considering teh wording doesn't mean it works that way it is SOE after all !!</div><p>Message Edited by Cersiana on <span class="date_text">10-05-2006</span> <span class="time_text">03:11 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Yes going by the wording, the modifier goes first, followed by the transfer.  You can't say 100-41=59-23 = 36.  The 23% is applied to both sides.<div></div>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crono1321 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cersiana wrote:<BR> <DIV>I ust abe a ranger and yes our self hate debuff usta screw up amends Lol. While as I never really put much thought into it I've always heard that the decreaser is applied first. Since my raids include both a aggo hungry warlock and wizard rarely would one ever get the chance to have both Amends and Link. So to be specific fromwhat it says.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Link - Decreases hate gain </DIV> <DIV>Amends - Absorbs hate form anotehr target.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Link would go fist since it decreases the hate actually gained, then amends would draw off of what was left since link stops part of the actual gain. You can't gain hate thats not there so decreased hate gain means you wouldn't get it in the first place for amends to draw off it... Someone should get a dev in here to explain how they actually have it happen because even with considering teh wording doesn't mean it works that way it is SOE after all !!</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Cersiana on <SPAN class=date_text>10-05-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:11 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><STRIKE>Yes going by the wording, the modifier goes first, followed by the transfer</STRIKE>.  You can't say 100-41=59-23 = 36.  The 23% is applied to both sides.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>sure you can, grab a high agro class A, and a paly,</P> <P>put amends on agro class A, with harmonious link on agro class A</P> <P>make agro class A pull with their biggest attack or nuke, and stay within 30m of paly and coercer.</P> <P>watch mob agro tank with no taunts.</P> <P>-end of story<BR></P>

[Maelick]

<DIV>I'm just thinknig about something, I have no clue about it... But is it different to put amend first and harmonious link after, or harmonious link first and amend after ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope not, but it would explain a lot of the discepancies in the previous answers <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maelick (newby to EQ2 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )</DIV>