AA suggestions for PvP

[Mentla]

Again, unless I'm missing it can't find this on here anywhere.  Anything you guys can recomed?<div></div>

[Mentla]

pwetty pwease?<div></div>

[Mordion89]

<DIV>Take the Agi line</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Agility stat it self will give u a little more avoidance which is good in pvp, further down the line, u'll get defense+ which will further improve ur avoidance</DIV> <DIV>- Being able to slow down casting speed of others, it'll be easier to interrupt evac etc.</DIV> <DIV>- Speed casting is very important in pvp, if u can't mez/root a melee before it gets to u, ur pretty much dead</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You might wanna get some of the int line too, for interruption immunity and mental debuff</DIV><p>Message Edited by Mordion89 on <span class=date_text>09-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:43 PM</span>

[Tanatus]

<P>.... Best advice would be retier you mage permanently because SOE NEVER will balance resistance problem</P> <P>In a simple words .... if at lvl 50 - 50% of you spell will bonce out of opponent lvl 50, at lvl 60 about 80% of spell will bonce out, at lvl 70 EVERYONE become immune to any magical attacks ...</P>

[SonnyA]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <P>.... Best advice would be retier you mage permanently because SOE NEVER will balance resistance problem</P> <P>In a simple words .... if at lvl 50 - 50% of you spell will bonce out of opponent lvl 50, at lvl 60 about 80% of spell will bonce out, at lvl 70 EVERYONE become immune to any magical attacks ...</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>So you're suggesting Strength line and get into melee?

[Mentla]

<div><blockquote><hr>SonnyA wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Tanatus wrote: <div></div> <p>.... Best advice would be retier you mage permanently because SOE NEVER will balance resistance problem</p> <p>In a simple words .... if at lvl 50 - 50% of you spell will bonce out of opponent lvl 50, at lvl 60 about 80% of spell will bonce out, at lvl 70 EVERYONE become immune to any magical attacks ...</p> <hr> </blockquote>So you're suggesting Strength line and get into melee?<hr></blockquote>heh</div>

[Tanatus]

I suggesting delete coercer on PVP server and make something more fisable .... like brigand

[fat to]

    Coercer is a very fun pvp class to play, and can hold its own in groups and solo. I have been having resistance trouble and was thinking about respecing to wisdom line for more subjugation, although I'm not sure how much it will help. I started off with the strength aa line, then at 67 or so changed to agi. The fast casting really helps get your debuffs and reactives on the person before mez wears off. I have been going down the int line but haven't gotten to the increased spell crit. I'd say though that the best aa's for pvp is agi/int or agi/wis. Kind of hoping they fix tier 7 resists, but pvp is still a lot of fun. Also daydream would help with some of the tough instances like nizari. I've appreciated Tanatus' knowledge of the coercer class and he's taught me a thing or two from his posts, but he doesn't play on a pvp server. Coercer pvp tactics have very little to do with pve tactics. Coercer pvp is a very viable option, although in my biased opinion may take a little more skill due to the complex nature of coercer spells and how they work differently in pvp than in pve. Happy hunting....pumpkin pie of overlords on nagafen70 coercer / 62 woodworker<div></div>

[Mentla]

Thanks chaps.In my exoerience on a Fury increase spell crit makes pretty much no difference btw.<div></div>

[Tanatus]

<P>You missing point folks</P> <P>Major PvP flow is SOE design</P> <P>a) Spells suggest FULL resist penalties on top of that spells have damage/duration reduction</P> <P>b) EVERYONE with minimum raiding capable attain resistance accross board 3000+ and worst thing mental/magic resistance aren't hardest to come (poison hardest). Now toss in equation if we are talking about group PvP and add to group conjuror and warden and guess what happend? - yep ...2000 resist to all (on top of basebuilt 3000). At 5000+ resistance you eat all day long mez, stun, ice nova, apocal ... everything - ZERO effect</P> <P>c) I give you one thing in some places providing proper pet (brigand/zerker/swash/assasin) you can cause other ppl serious problem but genium problem is all great melee based pets located in instanced dangeons - hence mute point. Well I give you name of 1 pet Barren Sky that DO actually work - orthalian sentries by entrance of vaults - they are brigands (many time nerfed but still brigands)</P> <P>Don't kid yourself that PvP servers still youngs and ppl not yet fully raid geared - give it few more months and thats it. Total and uncontested domination of scouts in PvP</P> <P> </P>

[Mentla]

...and all the Devs play scouts so don't expect any change...<div></div>

[Tanatus]

No actually 1 play coercer ... but he did not bother play him above lvl 50 and get better gear then mastercrafted.....

[SonnyA]

<P>A bit off thread topic. But being a 50+ coercer on a pvp server actually has a few advantages. Low cost of master spells and high desirability in raids.</P>

[Mentla]

Don't remember the name - on my Ranger at the moment - but I just hit 28 with my Coercer and got that awsome mana-use-equals-death spells at M1 for about 10g!!<div></div>

[Melmoth1820]

<P><EM>b) EVERYONE with minimum raiding capable attain resistance accross board 3000+</EM></P> <P>Heh, it's worse than that.  I had absolutely zero problem getting 70-80% resists to all magic, except divine (who cares), before I had a single piece of raid gear.   It took me under a week total to put together.  If you ask some ppl who <3 pve, do a little research, and intelligently select your gear, you can easily, easilly get 4-6k resists across HoF, Nest, PoA, etc. which anyone can do, let alone stuff from Nizara, Roost, etc.  I have some really nice pieces to make a better suit out of now, but I don't really care, as haven't played my illlus in a month and I'll be cancelling Oct. 1st if some definite and specific word on t7 pvp resist fixes hasn't been given from SoE. </P> <P>Not everyone is saavy about how they gear tho, so there's still a few ppl you can actually land spells on, and a whole slew who "only" resist 4-6 out of 10 spells (which is still often enough to win them fights despite them playing like garbage).  These people will become fewer and fewer as, inevitably, more people raid, more high end gear trickles into the market, and it becomes common knowledge that you can (and should) fix up your resists like I did without an ounce of raid gear.</P> <P>Tbh tho, coercer is, by far, the best-off of all casters with the way resists work as, basically, you can probably win if you can manage to land a mez before you die.   No, coercers are not okay in the grand spectrum of pvp.  They can't provide more than a fraction of their full utility in group pvp, but at least they can run around solo ganking people via spamming Catacylsmic Mind and Auspex on a mezzed opponent till they finally stick, wheee what great pvp.</P>

[Melmoth1820]

<P>Anyways, in regards to the OP's question (rude to join in on the bishing and not the original question I guess), here's my take on the AA lines from a pvp server standpoint.  I have not tried stamina (looks like garbage) or str (I'll play a scout if I want to melee thanks), but I have tried the others down to the end of the tree and in combination with each other.</P> <P>1.  Agility:  Agility, compared to any other aa line, gives you the most bang for your buck at low AA with chronomotion.  It's also the best tree overall to take to the bottom, <EM>but it's not as powerful in pvp as it is in pve because, except in rare circumstances, you cannot stand still chaincasting in pvp, and good casters must kite especially, but not only, in group pvp.  </EM>Perpetuality isn't the beast it is in pve, but it's still helpful in two ways.  1) You get to squeeze off an extra 1-2 spells inbetween kiting fests which is 1-2 more spells you normally would not have been able to cast. 2) you can blast out one slow-but-important spell that would normally be annoying to cast in pvp simply by going chronomotion (+24-30% speed from the debuff itself, then 24% more speed since it triggers p2 off the bat) ---> spell.  In conclusion, perpetuality is totally worth having, but the best pvp ablitiy in the line is chronomotion (since it pretty much effectively works out to be 30% passive speed once you stick it, compared to perpetuality which needs to be fueld and refueled all the time) and I recommend going back and boosting it all the way up to 8 after you go 4-4-4-4-8.</P> <P>2.  Int:  The entire line is absolute garbage in pvp except for the spell crits, which are very very very nice.  DoTs will crit on every tick as soon as any tick crits, and enchanters each have a lot of dots.  I<EM> think</EM>, however, illus has one more dot than a coercer, and color/solar shower is our most damaging single spell....so it might be a bit better for an illus than a coercer.  If I were on a blue server, I would have the volatile magic, without a doubt, but in pvp it's simply too much of a disadvantage to limit yourself to 29% power.  I've tried manaflowing myself at the first free moment, sprinting down low, hitting savante, and squeezing off hp-to-power whenever it's up, but really, aside from being totally cumbersome to do in the midst of a group pvp fight (solo, it's feasible sometimes, but generally only in fights where you're already pwning them, so it's not really helping) with a class that already has so much utility to manage (if I were a class who just had to mash assist and dps I could see it, but not as a chanter), but it's crippling for a cloth in pvp to not be able to use sprint.  Even if you can manage to not run oop, the extra damage does not make up for not being able to sprint in short bursts as needed to escape melees.  4-4-4-8 is win, but don't bother with volatile magic in pvp.</P> <P>3.  Wisdom:  the charm at the bottom of the wisdom line is a great spell in pvp.  It's got poor resistability, tho it's hard for me to really judge how much of an effect it makes since all my spells get resisted regardless, lol.  Seriously tho, no hard proof to back it up since I haven't been able to get one fp to help me test, but I <EM>suspect </EM>that the "x% harder to resist" on spells has no effect to do with how much you get resisted due to a player's resists from buffs/gear, but rather only due to level differences.  I say this because, really, my aoe stun with a very poor resistability (I forget, I think it's like 4% harder or something lame) seems to stick no more or less vs. other 70s than my master1 single mez which is 30% harder.  In any case, charm is good stuff--at the least it's another form of crowd control that shares no immunity timer with your other cc.  At best you can grab a high dps class with it and send him on a squishy making it a 2-for-1 cc spell.</P> <P>The wisdom line has nothing else that stands out, but the resists are a nice bonus.  I would not spend more than the minimum 4 points on them, because it's so easy to get good resists even without raid gear, but compared to other abilities we pick up just to get deeper in a line, it's a pretty sweet bonus.  The bonus to subjugation is useless in pvp.  I had high hopes for it, and tried maxing it 8/8, but 480+ subjugation (seriously, how much more can a person possibly have) made it absolutely not one iota easier to land a spell on an opponent with good resists.  I've found skills to help quite a bit landing spells on orange mobs in pve, but again, it makes zero difference 70 vs. 70 in pvp.</P> <P>Side note:  I've heard that troub charm was stealth nerfed or is currently bugged to where they can no longer charm players and make them attack others.  Since the wisdom line charm works very similarly, I'd be wary that it hasn't suffered similarly.</P> <P>So, any case, I would basically suggest going 4-8 in agility and then respeccing when you are aa lvl 25 into 4-4-4-4-8 agil.  Then boost chronomotion back up to 8 and then respec again when you have enough points to invest in two trees, keeping, at the very least 4-8 in agility always.  For a final setup I believe either one of these is best on pvp:</P> <P>Agil: 4-8-4-5-8     </P> <P>Int: 4-4-4-8</P> <P>or...</P> <P>Agil: 4-5-4-4-8</P> <P>Wis: 4-4-4-4-8</P> <P>In any case, that's my wordy speil on pvp AAs.  I feel like maybe I should get some info out there since I'll prolly be quitting in a few days and some people on the chanter forums have given me some good info in the past saving me a lot of legwork as well as time getting caught up in (generally) understanding a new game. Good luck to all pvp chanters!  </P> <P>P.S.  I do think the str line is complete garbage, but I could see placing 5 spare points into it just for an interrupt CA.  Highly situational already, and this would be even less useful as a coercer who can interrupt on every zap of their dd, but you could get some limited use out of it, namely while kiting from melees in group pvp, running through a casting healer and slashing them to interrupt.  Once you've got 4-8-4-4-8 agility, you can temporily invest your next 4 points into maxing the passive cast speed boost in the same line, but  once you've done that, you hit a dead zone where you can't afford anything worth a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] for a long time and keep perpetuality.  If you aren't willing to cut agility down to 4-8 and max another line while rebuilding agility, 5 points into str wouldn't be the stupidest thing ever for a pvp chanter.</P><p>Message Edited by Melmoth1820 on <span class=date_text>09-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:11 AM</span>