Illusionist vs. Coecer in solo/group (no raid)

[Aarithon]

crossposted to illusionist group, curious to hear both sides...Had an EQ1 enchanter alt which i found quite enjoyable, now I was wanting to roll up a CC class in EQ2, not sure which way to swing on this though. My understanding of the key differences is that ill get one extra, fast casting mez, whereas coecer can charm.  the hate transfer doesn't matter too much to me (raid useful only?).  So which is the better of the 2 for solo/single group situations?  Is charm too unreliable for general use?  Are charmed pets normalised in their power or is it useful to charm heroic mobs?  Is the reliable ill pet roughly equal in power to the coecer charmed pets?thanks, and sorry for asking a question that has been gone over already, i did read previous posts, just didn't see too much to do with solo/group, a lot was stating raid the coecer was better.<div></div>

[Ghu]

<P>I played Illusionist until the mid 60s then betrayed to Coercer. This is what I know...</P> <P>Coercer is the funner more challenging of the two in my opinion. Illusionist seemed easier to level (Yeah I tried lvling up a coercer but couldn't get the charm down. That toon is still lvl 27 and has a ton of deaths.)</P> <P>Both bring great things to groups.</P> <P>Illusionist is easier to solo (summoned pet is easier to handle)</P> <P>Coercer is more exciting to solo (charmed pets are the bomb!)</P> <P>Either class does great on CC. Either class makes a huge differance in groups.. </P> <P>All things considered, if I were going to do it all over again, I'd probly do it the same way. LVL up an illusionist then betray them to coercer.</P>

[UmanAsi]

did about 7 one on one fights with a illusionist who was one level up on me last night, on my coecer.   Coecer is much more powerful, as the illusionist requires a pet to do any real damaage, we have an abiltiy that will totattly dominate anyone, anyone who uses power that is. <div></div>

[Dyshar]

<P>Thats not true for the above statement, most of an illusionists dmg comes from himself not the pet.</P>

[nscragg]

As hard as you tried to disguise the question with your wording, this post still came down to, "Coercer v. Illusionist, which is better?"  I can assure you that if you'll read or even search BEYOND the top 2 posts you'll find a treasure trove of factoids around this question.  This subject is debated weekly ffs.  I'm sorry if I sound crass, but this <b><i>same question different day</i></b> stuff is growing old.  =/I think it would be serving for us as a coercer community to compile this debate once and for all into one last thread, with links to other threads and petition a sticky for it.<div></div>

[Aarithon]

<div><blockquote><hr>nscragg wrote:As hard as you tried to disguise the question with your wording,<font color="#ff0000">Not trying to disguse anything.  My question was actually narrowing down the specific area i was interesting in hearing comparitive opinions on, so as to eliminate the areas I'd already read useful info on in previous topics.</font>this post still came down to, "Coercer v. Illusionist, which is better?"  I can assure you that if you'll read or even search BEYOND the top 2 posts <font color="#ff0000">And I can assure you that I read through the first 3-4 pages worth of posts but did not find a great deal of specific info with respect to the comparitive usefulness of each of the classes in a small group setting, there was some stuff on solo, but not heaps.  It seems to me as though you saw the topic and decided to jump on in and yell at me without actually reading my post.</font>you'll find a treasure trove of factoids around this question.  This subject is debated weekly ffs.  I'm sorry if I sound crass, but this <b><i>same question different day</i></b> stuff is growing old.  =/<font color="#ff0000">Well that's what a forum is for. A place where people can ask stuff, you know the only stupid question is the one you don't ask.  And yes you do sound crass, if you don't like the question, heck, don't read the post, and sure as hell don't waste your time and mine, and everyone elses who might be interested in an actual response to the topic by posting an utterly useless reply.</font>I think it would be serving for us as a coercer community to compile this debate once and for all into one last thread, with links to other threads and petition a sticky for it.<font color="#ff0000">That would certainly be a useful resource, because I know there are lots of us who would like to see a good breakdown on the differences between the 2 classes, not just ill vs. coercer but all the class pairings.</font><div></div><hr></blockquote></div>

[Tanatus]

<P>Classes have very little similarity ...</P> <P>Coercer is ultimate solo machine of EQ2 - no other class can do things that coercer can, to some extend illusionist can do those things too ... but it will take for illi 10X longer </P> <P>Major difference is fact that Illusionist goes as he goes, coercer have to heavy relay on pet. To make it totaly clear for you no charm = no coercer</P> <P>For groups its goes pretty much same, except for fact that coercer have edge with hate buff</P>

[Aarithon]

<div><blockquote><hr>Tanatus wrote:<div></div> <p>Classes have very little similarity ...</p> <p>Coercer is ultimate solo machine of EQ2 - no other class can do things that coercer can, to some extend illusionist can do those things too ... but it will take for illi 10X longer </p> <p>Major difference is fact that Illusionist goes as he goes, coercer have to heavy relay on pet. To make it totaly clear for you no charm = no coercer</p> <p>For groups its goes pretty much same, except for fact that coercer have edge with hate buff</p><hr></blockquote>Hi Tanatus,can i get you to clarify a little on how the illusionist can function without a pet?  They have the normal type of pet where they just summon it type thing, but are you saying that they can function effectively (solo or group situation) without their pet out? If so, what spells do they have that actually facilitate functioning without a pet?</div>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<DIV>What he's saying is that the Illusionist <STRONG>always</STRONG> has his pet available if he wants it...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Whereas a Coercer is bound by whatever pet he can find in the area... sometimes it's worthless... sometimes you aren't even allowed to charm anything (Den instance)... but if you can charm something decent, you are better off than the Illusionist.</DIV>

[Aarithon]

<div><blockquote><hr>Raidi Sovin'faile wrote:<div></div> <div>What he's saying is that the Illusionist <strong>always</strong> has his pet available if he wants it...</div> <div> </div> <div>Whereas a Coercer is bound by whatever pet he can find in the area... sometimes it's worthless... sometimes you aren't even allowed to charm anything (Den instance)... but if you can charm something decent, you are better off than the Illusionist.</div><hr></blockquote>ahh i understand now, thankyou.</div>

[Tanatus]

<P>Not charm in Den? why?</P> <P>There is "fury" type pet in Den fogot the name of that insect - very decent nuker (~2K a pop but like chain gun)</P>

[Korpo]

<div><blockquote><hr>Tanatus wrote:<div></div> <p>Not charm in Den? why?</p> <p>There is "fury" type pet in Den fogot the name of that insect - very decent nuker (~2K a pop but like chain gun)</p><hr></blockquote>Yeah, they're right at the entrance too, drones I think they're called.</div>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Bingo!! yep - they called Ravasect Drone (always comes on 1 modification ++ lvl 67)</DIV>

[Korpo]

Since the thread is already derailed... I can't seem to find a really good pet in the nest. The ransacking vultaks are warlock types, but they're pretty [Removed for Content]. You can charm Nutty and Switch, but they're even worse.<div></div>

[Alaeth]

Meh, I just go with the warlock types in Nest...yeah, they're not that great compared to pets in any other sky zone except SoS, but they're still better than anything else you could do with those 3 slots. The problem is they all seem to have awful scripts loaded with nothing but Netherlord and the same 2 dots they cast over and over without even waiting for them to run their courses before recasting. I've found that warlock mobs in general are kind of disappointing, though, at upper levels; in Den and BSS, I've consistently parsed the fury-type mobs as doing a fair bit more DPS than the warlock-type mobs.

[Korpo]

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. I duo the nest twice a night with a buddy of mine, so I'm always on the lookout for a way to make it go quicker. <div></div>

[Tanatus]

<P>Nest:</P> <P>First floor: charm Named - he best pet</P> <P>Second floor - group or 4 birds - one of those bird is warlock .... it so so pet</P> <P>Third Floor - no decent pets</P> <P>4 Floor - well obvious ring event</P>

[Korpo]

<div><blockquote><hr>Tanatus wrote:<div></div> <p>Nest:</p> <p>First floor: charm Named - he best pet</p> <p>Second floor - group or 4 birds - one of those bird is warlock .... it so so pet</p> <p>Third Floor - no decent pets</p> <p>4 Floor - well obvious ring event</p><hr></blockquote>I thought I tried charming the first named, hmmm....</div>

[Tanatus]

lol actually on a 3rd floor best pet also named

[Korpo]

I tried the first named, the one that can pop to the left, right, or front as you come into the nest. No dice, "Won't work on target".???<div></div>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Since then????</DIV> <DIV>I mean first floor named that call for help all vultak guardians now marked not charmable?????</DIV>

[Mackrala]

Coercers are better unless you're [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn],, end of discussion.

[Dorein]

Nest- Searching Vultak's. Nothing in there is a great pet, but those have a 2k hit they use about once a fight, normally a ^ mob easily controlable if broken (master charm) <div></div>

[Korpo]

<div><blockquote><hr>Tanatus wrote:<div>Since then????</div> <div>I mean first floor named that call for help all vultak guardians now marked not charmable?????</div><hr></blockquote>I've never been able to charm any nameds in the Nest, except for Nutty and Switch, but my coercer hasn't been high enough to run the nest until fairly recently.</div>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>I been always draging with me some sort of named in Nest lol mostly for [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and gigle. FIght 2 named on second floor is kinda hilarious to watch</DIV>

[TuxDave]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> UmanAsika wrote:<BR>did about 7 one on one fights with a illusionist who was one level up on me last night, on my coecer.   <BR><BR>Coecer is much more powerful, as the illusionist requires a pet to do any real damaage, we have an abiltiy that will totattly dominate anyone, anyone who uses power that is.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I would that it really depends on which Illusionist that you're fighting.  If you're playing a good player, it boils down to who can click faster in the first 0.5sec.  The illusionist has a 0.5sec quick mez and I'm sure the coercer has their own 0.5sec casting time spell. </P> <P>As an illusionist, what usually follows is a mez on the pet, and a chain of stifles/stuns from me and my pet.  I personally only use the pet to assist me in stuns/stifles/dazes.  I do the rest of the damage myself.  And there's always spell shield in case I screw up.</P>

[Morthore]

nope no .5 sec mez or a mez on the run, BUT we do have a .5 sec amnesia which stifles them and makes em lose target, enough time to follow with a mez

[TuxDave]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Morthore wrote:<BR> nope no .5 sec mez or a mez on the run, BUT we do have a .5 sec amnesia which stifles them and makes em lose target, enough time to follow with a mez<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yup so the beginning of most duels I've been in always started off with me rapidly clicking that 0.5sec spell hoping that mine lands before his.  Oh.. and if it resists well...that sucks.

[Fingu]

<DIV>Solo Content:  Illusionist by far superior.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Group Content:  About Even</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Raid:  Coercer, although Illusionists are good in add groups, but Coercers still effective in those too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Murdox</DIV> <DIV>Ancient Vengeance</DIV> <DIV>Najena</DIV>

[Tanatus]

<P>Roflmao - please please please show me ANY target that illusionist can solo and coercer can't solo ... I can show thou 1 target that Coercer can and Illusionist can't ...  First named in Nizara  </P>