Which would be better for me a coercer or Illusionist

[The Mo]

Hi all, I got my coercer to 22 and and I want to see if I made the right choice. I want to be the best mezzer I can possilby be as thats what I focus most on in groups. I plan to take my time and solo around in zones ive ignored in the past, I am not trying to take on anything to tough maybe a solo mob a few lvls higher then me and perhaps a heroic thats much lower but still conned. I want my pet to be consistant with dmg and able to take blows from mobs. I love to group and thats where I spend much of my time so I want the one that is most useful to a group. (I do not raid) With that in mind should I keep going with my coercer or betray to an illusionist? <div></div>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<P>Hmm... it's a mixed bag. My answers are in yellow.</P> <P> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>The Moor wrote:<BR>Hi all, I got my coercer to 22 and and I want to see if I made the right choice.<BR><BR>I want to be the best mezzer I can possilby be as thats what I focus most on in groups.<BR><FONT color=#ffff00>Illusionists get one extra Mez. However this game isn't that mez friendly... many folks do more damage the more creatures they can land their AoE spells on. Mez takes the creature out of AoE consideration, and therefore slows things down.<BR>However, if you like crowd control, Coercers end up with a single target stun, root and stifle, a single target "stuns when it attacks" debuff, two group stuns, and a group daze (creature doesn't autoattack). These will all reduce damage, and even take a creature out of combat (stun), but still allow people to land damage. Best of both worlds, even if it doesn't last as long as Mez.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Coercers do get two mez's (single and group), and I've found that that is enough for the "oh crap" situations (adds you didn't want, etc). They also get amnesia (memory wipe), which means if you expect the tank to have problems pulling aggro back on a wayward peeled creature, you can amnesia, mez and the tank will be able to take back aggro with just a tap. I think Illusionists get something similar, but it's more messy (spawns pets to get aggro and then memwipes when they die? I like the instant memwipe better).</FONT><BR><BR><BR>I plan to take my time and solo around in zones ive ignored in the past, I am not trying to take on anything to tough maybe a solo mob a few lvls higher then me and perhaps a heroic thats much lower but still conned.<BR><FONT color=#ffff00>Either class can do this fine then. The solo mobs won't be a problem at all. Coercers might have an easier time with low level heroics just because the pet choice can allow for healers, etc.</FONT></P> <P><BR>I want my pet to be consistant with dmg and able to take blows from mobs.<BR><FONT color=#ffff00>This won't happen with either class. Illusionists pet does a lot of debuffing instead of straight up DPSing, and won't be able to take blows. A coercer has to find a pet that does decent damage, it can break/has to be recast, and is nerfed down in health and defense so that it can't take blows either.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>A coercer's pet has potential (with available mobs and quality of charm) to be stunningly powerful DPS. Otherwise they are average DPS. Illusionists pet has the advantage of always being available, but no real potential for as high of damage.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Honestly... we aren't a pet class. We have a bonus from pets, and with work the coercer's charm can be mighty, but if you want stable, consistant damage and a tanking pet, you need to play a Conjuror or Necro.<BR></FONT><BR><BR>I love to group and thats where I spend much of my time so I want the one that is most useful to a group. (I do not raid)<BR><FONT color=#ffff00>In groups, either can do very well. Coercers buff DPS, so they match well with melee that don't self buff DPS too high already (only a problem in the higher levels). Illusionsits buff haste, which services the other half of the melees.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Both give pretty similar regen. Coercers have a bit more regen non-reliant on mobs, Illusionists have a bit more that relies on debuffing a mob.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Both have a similar level of crowd control. I think coercers have a bit more AoE friendly stuff, but it's not a big enough difference to matter much in a heroic group setting. For the most part, instance and regular grouping, either enchanter is going to be wanted and can do their job well.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>The only thing I'd say is that in a few niche areas, Charm can be nice to have. It's like adding a 7th member to the group, who's doing as much DPS as the nukers/scouts.</FONT><BR><BR>With that in mind should I keep going with my coercer or betray to an illusionist?<BR><BR><FONT color=#ffff00>Honestly.. what it's going to boil down to, is that the Illusionist will be a bit safer to play to get their full abilities, while a Coercer will have higher potential, but a bit riskier.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>I myself prefer the Coercer simply because charm, and charm breaking, keeps me on my toes and give me a chance to "go for those high highs".</FONT></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Hope this helps. :smileyhappy:

[Tanatus]

<DIV>If you want to play mezer you picked wrong class - try bard or swashi ... coercer is all about offense aka charm + stun ... well a little mez for farming purpose only </DIV>

[The Mo]

<DIV>Thanks for the advise, I am gonig to stick with the coercer.  And to sweeten the deal I finally got coerce master 1:smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

[Nolomite]

<P>I'm a noob to both Illusionist and Coercer (started up both to see which I preferred) and I've got an empirical observation: My Coercer has the worst kills/death ratio of all my characters, and my Illusionist the best.</P> <P> </P> <P>But - I have more fun with the Coercer, so I'm sticking with him over the Illusionist. Weird, huh?</P> <P> </P> <P>I mostly have solo'd with them, but they were created with grouping in mind. I just want to learn what I'm doing before I join a group that expects me to know what I'm doing. I figure the auto attacks the Illusionist pet is doing keeps the mobs docile while I take them down, so I'm casting from relative safety. The Coercer is all about charm, so far, so you can pretty much pencil in a death whenever the charm breaks early in a fight. Ya, I should be able to  handle that, but I'm not great at it yet. When the Coercer graduates to group play he'll worry more about neutralizing mobs and less about coercing them.</P>

[Crono1321]

<blockquote><hr>Tanatus wrote:<div>If you want to play mezer you picked wrong class - try bard or swashi ... coercer is all about offense aka charm + stun ... well a little mez for farming purpose only </div><hr></blockquote>You really are an idiot.  The most posts I read from you the more I hate you.<div></div>

[Leawyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crono1321 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <DIV>If you want to play mezer you picked wrong class - try bard or swashi ... coercer is all about offense aka charm + stun ... well a little mez for farming purpose only </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>You really are an idiot.  The most posts I read from you the more I hate you.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>C'mon, no need for personal attacks, even if its spot on... :smileyvery-happy:

[Vydian]

Sorry, I'm going to agree with Crono. I haven't had my coercer but for 3 weeks, and some of the information on this board has been a great help. But all Tanatus does is focus on "charm this, charm that". He doesn't understand the class, probably never will, and seems to love forcing that ideal on other people that ask legit questions. In other words, useless..<div></div>

[Leawyn]

LOL! I said i agreed ("its spot on") but ... no reason to get this thread locked cuz some [Removed for Content] is spewing the gospel according to him.

[Tanatus]

<P>lol n00bs just FYI I am the oldest coercer on this board and Netulos server </P> <P>But just for some idiots I will spend a few min of my presious time explaining game mechanic in EQ2</P> <P>First and foremost - this game was NEVER designed around CC - it was thou design around another holy trinity Tank-Healer-DPS. Evolution of this game (mostly raiding part) bring another fuctions that are vital for raiding yet somethat unique for coercer class - namely hate manipulation and secondary mana manipulation - in both coercer excel above any other classes of game .... but guess what? MEZING IT NOT REQUIED in this game PERIOD - how hard comprehend this?</P> <P>Now use your brain and try figure what out of 3 major function in group (Tank-Healer-DPS) can provide coercer ....</P> <P>FOGET about EQ1.... in EQ2 Tank can afford take on 2-3 encounters (heroic) and if tank cannt lol - get better tank. During raid the only thing can do mez is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] THE [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] AGRO...</P> <P>So now I gona repeat for a last time for morons who not understand that it is not EQ1 it is EQ2 - if you was looking for best mezing class you pick the WRONG GAME - understand now?</P>

[Vydian]

1. Only shortsighted people view the game as tank-heal-dps - that and power gamers and plat farmers.2. If this is what you truly believe, why are you playing a coercer? Not to mention "the oldest on the board and on the Nektulos server"?3. Its a very good thing crowd control isn't required in EQ2, its one of the downfalls of EQ1. What crowd control does is make things EASIER. You know, so maybe you don't HAVE to run tank-heal-dps. Again, see point #1 for a list of people that cannot grasp this.4. Whether you like it or not, an illusionist or coercer is in fact MUCH BETTER than a bard or swash when it comes to CC.5. The OP simply asked  an opinion on which class he might prefer between an illusionist and coercer. Regardless of your feelings on the matter, you didn't answer his question at all, making your post completely useless (no big shock there from past posts..)6. I could go on, but constructive arguements don't seem to work with people that are full of themselves.<div></div>

[Leawyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <P>lol n00bs just FYI I am the oldest coercer on this board and Netulos server</P> <P>[snip out a bunch of worthless crap]<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That means nothing. Being around longer doesn't make you better. I am only level 59 and I could out-coerce you any day of the week. Why? Because I choose to utilize ALL my skills, not just the ones that "count".

[Manyak]

<DIV>Each spell has its own situaton. To think mezzing is NEVER EVER EVER needed is wrong....and same goes for getting over-zealous about ur class and mezzing every [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] mob in sight.</DIV>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <P>lol n00bs just FYI I am the oldest coercer on this board and Netulos server</P> <P>But just for some idiots I will spend a few min of my presious time explaining game mechanic in EQ2</P> <P>...</P> <P>Now use your brain...</P> <P>...</P> <P>So now I gona repeat for a last time for morons...</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Y'see, this is why people don't receive your posts well. Whether you are right or not, you are being abrasive and mean. People will receive a handshake better than a punch in the teeth.... what's the point of even posting this here if you don't think that highly of others? Usually people post here to help others... what's your motivation?</P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <P>in EQ2 Tank can afford take on 2-3 encounters (heroic) and if tank cannt lol - get better tank. During raid the only thing can do mez is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] THE [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] AGRO...</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>So what you are saying is that to the 90% of the gaming population that plays this game, we should all just give up because we can't get a raid force as uber as yours. Don't bother using Mez and CC that's currently working, because this game isn't designed for it, right? I should just stop doing what's <STRONG>working currently for us</STRONG> just because you say that it isn't required if we have a good enough tank and if we don't then we should just not even bother?</P> <P> </P> <P>Look.. not everyone is in a uber guild with massive mitigation, all master 1 heals, and the perfect raid group. Sometimes we don't even have a dirge for stoneskin, etc. We weren't all in the perfect raiding group back when things were easier either, getting decked out quickly before it all gets nerfed.</P> <P>What this means is we have to use our CC to mitigate the damage from even happening. It's just like getting a Dirge's Stoneskin up.. or stacking mitigation from a conjuror and/or Paladin in there.</P> <P>Mez doesn't have to screw up aggro if you time it right, and the MT has planned for it. I've personally used it successfully on many spike damage situations. Same with the rest of our CC... I've been getting into a groove with learning the best sequence of using stuns (using quicker immunities first).</P> <P>If my mez doesn't go through for whatever reason, or we don't use it... I can see the MT get spiked down to low health right off the bat... and then the healers are playing a deadly game of catch up. I've literally watched it happen where I land my group or AoE Stun, give the healers a moment to pop in an extra heal and voila, he's now back to green with heals instead of 50% with heals. Sure that's just stun... but it's still CC on epics. What's even better is that if I can land a 12s mez on one of the high hitting mobs right at the start, then the previous situation won't even happen.</P> <P> </P> <P>Whats going to happen when there's some uber mob out there that will require not only the best raid force possible... but <EM>also</EM> the CC from an enchanter. Sure you can handle everything now.. what about if they make something even more powerful. Whine on the boards that the mob or instance is "impossible"? Demand that it becomes "more reasonable"? Or try and use all the tools available to you?</P> <P>Honestly... I'd suspect it would be the former.<BR></P>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<P>Sorry for contributing to the derailing of this thread.</P> <P> </P> <P>To bring it back on track. Yes, Mez's aren't the be-all end-all of the enchanter. I mentioned that much in my original post. Whether you have 3 mez's or 2.. it's not going to be the end of the world.</P> <P>They have their uses, definately great in small groups (3-4 people) to take on much harder things that you normally could. It has it's place. But the difference between an Illusionist or a Coercer isn't that big with regards to this. Both can do about the same with regards to Mezzing... and both are pretty much equal in terms of overall CC.</P>

[Tanatus]

<P>To FULLY utilize ability of coercer you have to be level 70, have 50AA and also tested personally ALL variations of AA tree, also you need to be geared up ....</P> <P>W/o heaving Daydream you simply cannt comprehend how you can pull single from very tight packs ... yes that includes Nizara... Without knowledge that you can line up your stuns, reactive stuns, stifle and daze you can total incapacitate encounter .... permanently ... at level 70 and cannt do that at lvl 59. If you dont playing min-max aka if you aren't power gamer speaking about full utilization of coercer tactic and skill ... kinda silly (mildly say). If you never soloed HoF including Ishatar (sp) and Lord Septimus - you have no clue about REAL potential of coercer. Ppl lol comprehend such simple thing - that in current stage of game coercer capable of soloing most none epic mobs, including instances and dangeons - with exception of Nizara - I haven't been able yet solo named here but have good ideas how to do at least 2 of em</P> <P>Mez have it uses ... for farming... not for raiding</P> <P>And speaking about CC ... the only place where its actually USEFULL is Nizara but per say if you have warden (same almost unbrakeable root) - you are good as you are would be with coercer</P> <P>So before you try to pretend you know much about playing coercer give yourself a favor and test your skills soloing HOF (fairly trivial task btw) then come back here with conclusion of your class knowledge</P>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<P>Tanatus, I'm a slave to the 23 other people I have with me on the raid.</P> <P>How 'bout you come over and take my spot in MY raid set up and see how well Mez and other CC is used in epic fights.</P> <P> </P> <P>Seriously... I really don't care about the upper percentile, only ubers know crap stuff. Try playing in my world and tell me the same thing.</P>

[Vydian]

And here I thought I was playing Everquest, not Tanatusquest.... I had no idea that my ultimate goal was to power game my way through and then come on the boards and ridicule everyone else since they "don't match up".Oh well, let him stay in his own little world. Thank god I don't play on Nektulos. I'm done, this thread isn't going anywhere and I hope the OP has gotten what information he wanted.<div></div>

[Seffrid]

<DIV>To be of assistance to others on this board requires two things. Knowledge of one's class and the ability to inform your fellow players in a polite and helpful way.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some have both skills, some have one but not the other, some have neither.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm clear where Tanatus stands on one of the pre-requisites, not so clear on the other.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks to those who have offered constructive advice to the OP, it has informed and assisted me over my lowbie coercer (and middle-level illusionist) and I'm grateful for that.</DIV>

[Tanatus]

<P>Raidi you still missing point ... completely </P> <P>My point was that mez it have no place in this game for anything but farming - thats all. Speaking about raiding - its not a rocket science lol - in most of part as a coercer you been expected to be a) hate manipulator (including memblurs is necessary) b) be mana manipulator - thats your primary job. ALSO as a mage you are expect to keep up 500-1000 DPS and that pretty much conclude your role</P> <P>Lets look what coercer can and shall do in MT- you did Enranged Demeanor on MT, Harmonious Link on brigands and warlocks, keeping up with 3 cracks up and running, hitting mana flow every time its pop up, ghetto despatching all mobs, controlling agro on pulls with TOE, softening spike damage of mobs via Sonic, Confoundment, Focus, Ego, Silence.. Of course DPSing your [Removed for Content] off as well (Sonic after brigand call Dispatch, maitaining Scrouge, Auspex along Breakdown and Torment) ... charming at first possible occasion .... even in such gimpy place like TOS your pet will contribute at least 700-800DPS - See there is no place or time for mez in here ...</P>

[Anachronomicon]

<DIV>I agree with that summation. An accurate portrayal of what should be happening on a raid. If you do not raid top tier things, then your perception of Tanatus' veiwpoint may be skewed, but he speaks the truth. He's just getting the most out of his character.</DIV>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<DIV>I do exactly all of that Tanatus, and I pop a mez at the beginning of combat on one of a multiple pull that threatens spike damage. Not that hard, it gives a nice 13s delay in spike damage offsetting that burst right at the start. Do it right after the MT does his initial pull with aggro (taunt or damage, whatever his tool is), but before it reaches where he's tanking.. so it's off to one side away from the raid's AEs. Simple, easy, takes a whole second of effort and voila, made the pull easier on the clerics and tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Since I'm using the mez like this right at the start of the fight, it doesn't interupt the flow for the rest of combat either.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, while it's not used as often as say my stuns or my damage spells, or my regens, etc... it can be used on nearly every pull in some zones.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And yes, I raid the high end zones, thank you very much. I do Labs, Lyceum and Halls of Seeing once a week, at least. More if we are doing trash runs as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh.. and I do believe the original poster said he doesn't raid. So none of this crap is really going to help him is it?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We are talking about a lvl 20 guy, running around probably not in the most efficient of groups, fighting in zones where the people playing most likely haven't played before, nor are equipped up the wazoo. In this kind of scenario... mezzing adds can mean the difference between success and a total wipe.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe you think mezzing is useless for everything but farming... but try playing a lvl 20, with no rare armor (let alone fabled), grouped with a bunch of other folks who are just as new as him... and leveling up like that. I seem to recall mez being a downright lifesaver in those days.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How about we all step off the high end, uber gaming and take a look at what the OP is asking for, instead of just saying the same old unrelated stuff.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Raidi Sovin'faile on <span class=date_text>08-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:19 AM</span>

[AdiX__Styxx__]

<DIV>You are both right altough the last poster a lil more then thanatus, cause its about what the op asked you answered only raiding Questions maybe its cause ya been top coercer for a long time with really good gear and mostly been raiding and farming and lost touch with the lowby days. I do recall a buncha reactions of you to my posts in the past that were really polite and usefull to me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What happened to you tan? Never thought to see the day you would look down on newbies or even trash their Questions and even yer own class cause thats kinda what ya did trash yer own coercer class and blemished it. Common be an adult and go back to being usefull to the coercer community and at least respectfull towards the people that arent as well geared and skilled as you are. We are trying really hard and could benefit from your experience aswell of yer knowledge~!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You dont have to act on what i said here do yer own thing but just think about the days when you were a newby and still asking Questions you couldnt figure out on yer own! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now to the posters that shot him down he might have been rude and abrasive but dont ya think it would have been wiser to just ignore the knowledge he has put into that post since it wasnt constructive or usefull for a lvl 20 coercer..... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyways lets get real people respect is whats it all about!</DIV>

[zormik]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <P>To FULLY utilize ability of coercer you have to be level 70, have 50AA and also tested personally ALL variations of AA tree, also you need to be geared up ....</P> <P>W/o heaving Daydream you simply cannt comprehend how you can pull single from very tight packs ... yes that includes Nizara... Without knowledge that you can line up your stuns, reactive stuns, stifle and daze you can total incapacitate encounter .... permanently ... at level 70 and cannt do that at lvl 59. If you dont playing min-max aka if you aren't power gamer speaking about full utilization of coercer tactic and skill ... kinda silly (mildly say). If you never soloed HoF including Ishatar (sp) and Lord Septimus - you have no clue about REAL potential of coercer. Ppl lol comprehend such simple thing - that in current stage of game coercer capable of soloing most none epic mobs, including instances and dangeons - with exception of Nizara - I haven't been able yet solo named here but have good ideas how to do at least 2 of em</P> <P>Mez have it uses ... for farming... not for raiding</P> <P>And speaking about CC ... the only place where its actually USEFULL is Nizara but per say if you have warden (same almost unbrakeable root) - you are good as you are would be with coercer</P> <P>So before you try to pretend you know much about playing coercer give yourself a favor and test your skills soloing HOF (fairly trivial task btw) then come back here with conclusion of your class knowledge</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>My coercer is only lvl 42 but i know one thing. And that is an enchanter can mean the difference between a wipe or not.  The mezzing/dazing/... lowers the dps of the epics which can be critical to survive the first 20 secs of an epic encounter.

[Leawyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <P>To FULLY utilize ability of coercer you have to be level 70, have 50AA and also tested personally ALL variations of AA tree, also you need to be geared up ....<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Actually, not to be a nitpicker, but I am only 62 and i can fully utiilize the abilities of my level 62 coercer. Just because i'm not 70 with 50 aa's doesn't mean i'm not using everything in my artillery to accomplish whatever goal I have set out to do. You have tunnel vision right now, only seeing things from your perspective.</P> <P>Can I do EVERYTHING a lvl 70/50 coercer can do? Nope. Can I do EVERYTHING a level 62 coercer can do? I sure think so! I like think I go beyond what a normal coercer would do. I have pulled out a wipe for my group deep in SOS with <50 health on my health bar. I have saved a tank with a well timed stun just before the healer got off that much-needed heal. I have saved an almost-dead healer with amnesia preventing a sure wipe.</P> <P>I don't claim to know everything you do. In fact I know I don't. But I do know as much as I can about the class for as long as I've played it. The OP isn't asking for a raiders point of view. He was asking about grouping in the 20's. Try to take things into perspective when you post.</P>

[UniformMarsha]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <P>lol n00bs just FYI I am the oldest coercer <FONT color=#cc99ff>with a HUGE mouth and no brain</FONT> on this board and Netulos server </P> <P><FONT color=#cc99ff>Fixed</FONT></P> <P>But just for some idiots I will spend a few min of my presious <FONT color=#cc99ff>(spell check please, its the red check mark on the right)</FONT> time explaining game mechanic in EQ2</P> <P>First and foremost - this game was NEVER designed around CC - it was thou design around another holy trinity Tank-Healer-DPS. <FONT color=#cc99ff>(Incorrect, it was designed around the 4 point group of Fighter, Mage, Priest and Scout, then fleshed out to make successful groups using any combo's of the above, this is evidenced through the HO system)</FONT> Evolution of this game (mostly raiding part) bring another fuctions that are vital for raiding yet somethat unique for coercer class - namely hate manipulation and secondary mana manipulation - in both coercer excel above any other classes of game <FONT color=#cc99ff>(This is not unique, this is a grandfathered technique from EQ1 that all enchanters complained was lacking in this game at th begining, technically, this is nothing more than our just due)</FONT> .... but guess what? MEZING IT NOT REQUIED in this game PERIOD - how hard comprehend this?<FONT color=#cc99ff> (It is required in any dungeon crawl situation when your group make up has no off tank and you are in danger of wandering mobs)</FONT></P> <P>Now use your brain and try figure what out of 3 major function in group (Tank-Healer-DPS) can provide coercer ....</P> <P>FOGET about EQ1.... in EQ2 Tank can afford take on 2-3 encounters (heroic) and if tank cannt lol - get better tank.<FONT color=#cc99ff> (Group and situationally dependant)</FONT>  During raid the only thing can do mez is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] THE [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] AGRO... <FONT color=#cc99ff>(This statement makes absolutely no sense at all, try NOT writing in such a way as to incur the bleeps, spell checker remember?)</FONT></P> <P>So now I gona repeat for a last time for morons who not understand that it is not EQ1 it is EQ2 - if you was looking for best mezing class you pick the WRONG GAME - understand now?</P> <P><FONT color=#cc99ff>Your mother should be whacked for letting you play a video game instead of doing your homework</FONT></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Andu]

Despite the way that he phrases it, Tanatus is pretty much right imho. This game barely needs mezzing. Name one zone where you need to mezz, other than Nizara. You don't need to there either but it is pretty much the only place where it is desired. Other than that, most groups would prefer you didn't use a mezz on the whole, as you just remove mobs from the AoE's when they don't need to be. Sure, there is the odd occassion where mezzing an add is beneficial but that is pretty rare and is hardly sufficient to base two classes around. So, if you put mezz spells aside, what are you left with? As a Coercer - charm and stuns. As an Illusionist - pet and stifles(? cant think of anything else, happy for an illy to put me right). Hence I chose Coercer, despite the apalling Kill to Death ratio. Stuns still rule in a fight, even after the nerfs of LU24, and with a good charmed pet you can be throwing out T1 DPS to boot. Whats not to like? People with this fixation on mezzing really need to let it go or they will be very disappointed in the long run. Plus it gives us no end of a bad reputation. The number of people who have said to me "I don't normally like having Enchanters in the group because they get so precious about mezzing - but you're ok" is countless. There are too many chanters who insist on mezzing every encounter, trying to lock down every mob - and they annoy the hell out of everyone when they do. They also then have temper tantrums when someone breaks their mezzes, even though they are completely unnecessary. The game is too easy and crowd control is designed for a difficult game. So in answer to the OP's original question - go Coercer. We have weaker CC than illusionists but the game just doesn't need it. Learn to love your charm and stuns. <div></div>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<DIV>Coercers <STRONG>don't</STRONG> have weaker CC than Illusionists. Stuns, group daze are possibly more important in regular CC than the extra mez that illusionists get.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, that isn't to say that Mez is completely useless.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's like an emergency spell. Like any other emergency spell, it's great and wonderful when you need it.. but not always needed. It's far from useless, but I agree... locking down every encounter every time is pointless too.</DIV>

[Manyak]

<DIV> <DIV>Illus get more 'OH [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]' CC with a faster encounter stun and an extra quick mezz, but yes, in the end its still probably more appropriate just to say that its 'different' CC.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But still, neither class is a CC class. As i said in another thread somewhere.....a coercer is more of a utility class with situational DPS, while an illusionist is a DPS class with situational utility. If you wanna compare the two, you really need to take that into consideration, cuz it reflects on both the abilities and playstyle of the class, especially when illus can do at least double the DPS of a coercer at a raid, while coercers still get sought out more for their extra utility like demeanor and channel and such.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In the end though, just dont think you should make an enchanter just so u can CC.....its like saying i wanna make a necro so u can heal. Yes enchanters do get better CC then any other class, but its still only a small (and i mean very small) part of the whole picture.</DIV></DIV>

[JackAll]

<DIV>To UninformedMarshal</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While Tanatus might have a huge head(Im pretty sure he has some kind of RL /cutemode) he has a point. The clasic enchanting job from EQ1 just isnt here and if you try to fill that job you are worthless to any group or raid. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by JackAll on <span class=date_text>08-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:57 AM</span>

[UniformMarsha]

^ --- Hes talking about raiding, which the OP said "I dont raid" so how useful is Tan's particular advice, not to mention his delivery is off putting and gives off some idea that we're all elitists. What I have found curious about the Coercer ability is that we're focused less on damage reduction through mezzing, to damage reduction through stun/stifle/Power Drain.  Its more of a finesse style.  I dont think I really ever mezz mobs unless its something that popped up in the back of the group (which is where I usually am, guarding the rear for wanderers) <div></div>

[Tanatus]

<P>Dude regardless of fact that my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] biger then yours lol get grasp.... Coercer  <U><EM>outside of raid</EM> </U>is pure DPS class with a kicker ... much like brigand is pure DPS class with a kicker</P> <P>You have tools to fullfill your DPS role - yes coercers ARE Tier 1 DPS outside raid  ALWAYS. Combination of charmed pet and your attack spells ALWAYS should put you on top of DPS list and if you are not on top then you dont do your job as a coercer. In a sence coercer is more pet class then summoners because lion share of our DPS comes from correct picked type of pet (usually my pet outdps me at least 2X)</P> <P>Raid is totaly different, raid is more team play much like brigands sacrofice their DPS in order to stay alive and keep Dispatch going in very same way coercers often sacrofice their DPS in order to perfrom more import roles - like hate and power manipulation</P> <P>The whole point of converstaion that per se within group enviroment you dont need extra damage mitingation/avoidance for MT except he/she already have via group/own buffs... I know only 2 places where ppl still kinda looking for a mezers - its New Nekropolice (but here its not as much for mezer but for charmer) and Nizara (here its more not for mezer but for some sort of specialist who can soften spike damage of encounters)</P><p>Message Edited by Tanatus on <span class=date_text>08-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:22 PM</span>

[The Mo]

LOL my thread turned into one big flamefest. Just to let you all know I am sticking with the coercer and I am having a blast.  And I now realize that my stuns are way more helpful then my mezzes(though ive saved many group wipes with them) <div></div>