Newbie Coercer -- I'm getting pwned by even con mobs!

[Prancibald]

<DIV>What am i doing wrong? My spells do no dmg, my mezzes don't hold, and I have no idea how long my charm will last so I have no idea how do depend on it. I can't solo mobs at my lvl  (11) I keep getting pwned.</DIV>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<DIV>Make sure you get app4 or adept 1 on your spells. Adept 3 or Master on your charm would help a LOT if you can... not sure if this is your first char, but I've seen a master 1 of the lvl 10 (or is it 11?) charm going for 12 gold. This will make your spells land better and last longer, and damage more. Trying to do things with App 1 spells just won't cut it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, to help spells land, make sure you are hitting the mob with the resist debuff.. you should have at least one by lvl 11, and that should help mez land and last.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>See if you can find a tailor (outfitter at that level i think), or do it yourself and make some gear. Harvest for sisal roots and maybe even get some decent gear made. Hexx dolls too. They are also decently cheap on the market if you can afford the 5-10g each (also depends on if this is your first char or not).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Honestly, most of your damage spells won't show up until later levels, so the earlier levels can hurt, solo-wise. If you can get a duo, or even a full group to play with, you can get a lot more xp, a lot quicker.</DIV>

[Snarks]

keep in mind, that while coercers can certainly hold their own soloing even the hardest of mobs, the class is fundamentally a support class for a group. If you can, find a friend or two and work through the quest lines with them for freeport/commonlands. If you really want to keep soloing, you are going to have to get your charm at a higher spell level <div></div>

[Crono1321]

That level was frustrating for me too.  You need to either be charming a pet to attack for you, or root/nuke.  I do a combination of both.  Use your root as soon as it breaks on a mob, it will daze them so they don't attack you for a second.  Back up, then continue dps.

[Prieston]

<P>Charm is somewhat unreliable at those early levels, but that makes it a good time to practice with it and learning to be quick to handle the situation if it breaks. What I did at those levels was root a mob, send in pet, and continue to reroot when it wears off, casting damage spells in between.</P> <P>At that level try to keep your pet targeted. you can use implied targetting to target mob through pet. If charm breaks, immediately hit mez. That will mez your former pet. Make sure that you reroot other mob. Then recharm your pet and send it back in. </P> <P>Also, from your post, it sounds like you are mezzing mobs while fighting them? Mez is used to deal with adds or to mez your broken pet if charm breaks. Any damage breaks mez. If you dot a mob, then try to mez it, the dot will just break the mez. I haven't seen mez break early on it's own if no damage is being done to mob. While fighting a mob, root the mob. If the root breaks, stun him and root again. Only mez the adds if you get them or if you know you don't have any dots on mob you are fighting and have stopped attacking with your pet. Otherwise the mez will only serve to interrupt the mob. </P>

[Triple Black]

<DIV>Don't feel bad, I was level 10 and 11 over the weekend and I know I died a ton!  I just started to focus on getting a pet even if it was 2 levels lower then me, and keeping them.  Then I would pull with my power drain and start firing of Heroic Opportunities.  Eventually, I made it through those levels and on to level 13.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I haven't upgraded my gear, but I did focus on getting some help from my guild for adepts and at aleast App IV spell upgrades.  As the above poster mentioned, they help a great deal.</DIV>

[Alienor]

I guess, don't see the coercer as a pet class. As already mentioned it is a support class like a healer. They are able to solo con ^^^ heroics but imho this just takes too long to be efficient, although helpful when you need them for a quest (like the snow leopards in EF). Getting a group is of course the better option but I know that can be difficult.Beside that I have made the same experiences over the weekend (started last thursday) and even when twinked the girlie with Ad3 charm and mastercrafter gear (had some sisal roots left) it is still a pain compared to my necro. Heck, even on the starter island I thought about starting another necro instead <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Hopefully this will get better, when I stop playing the coercer like my main and thinking of it as a warlock <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> If this is your first char I would like to recommend starting a sage career, I missed that a lot through my life as a necro.<div></div>

[Triple Black]

<DIV>Aoraki,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why start a sage career?  To make our own AD Spells?</DIV>

[Alienor]

I have found this useful with my 2 mages and one priest. Just wished I would have  started this in the beginning <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> although the provisioner was also helpful <div></div>

[ca]

<DIV>I have a 70 necro, 44 warden 40 defiler and decided to make a coercer since enchanters are hard to find in end game, heck in any part and they are a seriously desired class, I had to spend some hard time unlearning my other toons, especially the necro, in order to play the coercer well, I managed to get a lvl 20 master charm but at the lower levels I harvested my own rare and made my own adept 3 charm, even with adept 3 charm I was getting destroyed, mind you I am a master at dying with my necro but I seemed to be creating a new art form with the coercers many deaths, I started to get very frustrated and considered dumping the coercer, that is until I found something on this forum that changed the class totally for me. I was charming tanks and scouts, stands to reason that if you have a pet you want it to hold aggro for you, wow is that wrong for coercers, I finally took the advice given here to find a preist to charm, not only was my pet suddenly able to protect me but it would heal itself when low! and the damage it produced was much much more than I could push out with all my app4 skills, all I had to do was root the mob-dot-nuke-send pet-stun and the fights were pretty much over, this is solo single even con mobs mind you, groups took different tactics but I was easily taking on yellow con solos this way, ALWAYS alwaysalwaysalways target through your charmed pet, even at adept 3 it would break the charm a lot! a quick mez on the pet and another on the enemy kept them at bay long enough for me to recharm the pet and continue on my way, this is also excellent practice for later high activity situations when pet breaks at the worst possible time, which is always the case. Groups are of course always the best XP but solo is very viable, once you get tactics right and especially after getting breeze you can pretty much mow through solo mobs non stop, no breaks means great XP and a large acumulation of loot, if this is your first toon making a sage is a great idea, making your own spells, especially adept 3's can be a huge money saver, and if you have enough rares you can make some extra adept 3's to sell for good money, just find out what are important spells to certain classes and you can be rolling in the cash.</DIV>

[Alfgand]

<blockquote><hr>Aoraki wrote:I guess, don't see the coercer as a pet class. As already mentioned it is a support class like a healer. necro.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Gee, I could not disagree more. I think of my Coercer as a very powerful pet class. Not in a raid environment and not in all groups. Some groups depending on the people involved and the zone lends itself to pet usage and others do not.But for soloing, good grief, I don't even start until I get a good pet.What a fun pet pet class we are too. We get our choice of most mobs in the zone! As others have stated here some mobs are much better for getting the job done than others but some are sheer fun.I have had more people stop dead in their tracks and watch my pet in amazement. More than one send me a tell and ask what the heck is that thing?Start out your Coercer on the Isle with charming the cow named Mabel and you have your own attack cow. People were rolling on the floor watching my killer cow attack things. Poor Mabel even wanted to come with me to Freeport but I told her it was not possible.(Note, you cannot normally charm named mobs)In the Commonlands grab a big Rhino or Elephant as a pet. (If they still are around. lol)In Nek Forest when you are that level, grab a giant tree that nukes for over a thousand. (Thats why you want a master lvl spell, it affect the damage output of the charmed pet)In Thundering Steppes, what could be more fun than having a Giant follow you around and follow your commands, or a Giant turned into a huge Ratonga or Troll.Go to Enchanted lands and charm one of those little deer and turn it into a Ratonga. Its not all that tough and you have to work at keeping it alive but think of the fun of having a six inch high Ratonga pet attacking mobs ten times it size.Go to Everfrost and charm one of those big sharks and turn it into a Troll. Ever see a 60 foot high troll walking on water. lol You cannot take it out of the water but click on your Haddens earring and have a ball killing other sharks.Go to Lavastorm grab one of those fireball elemental things and turn it into a Ratonga. You then have a Ratonga with fire oozing from it.Get your self a Master charm, sell your soul if have to. Hey, you are evil anyhow. Then grab the right ^^^ a level or two above you. They lose their ^^^ status but they seem to retain their power and health. Proceed to lay waste to all the even con mobs near you, one after another, after another, without a break. Then look at the carnage around you and tell me that we are not a pet class. If you cannot do this then you are doing something wrong. (See Master spell note below)Get yourself in a guild and create a good character. Then shop for your Masters on the Qeynos broker. Coercers are one of the most rare of classes and are only evil, thus the master spells sometimes go for a song on the good side. You can then use the guild bank to pass the spell over to your evil Coercer. Shop for higher level Master charm spells way ahead of when you need them. This way you are more likley to get a bargain. I wish my Wizards masters were so cheap. But there are both good and evil Wizards and Wizards are a dime a dozen so the demand for masters is much much higher. Simple supply and demand.Sure you die allot but heck the fun and speedy soloing more than make up for it. I compared my Defiler to my Coercer when they both were lvl 35. The Coercer had died 187 times the Defiler 15 times !There are so many different pets to experiment with and learn about. You can have a dirge pet, a SK pet, a brusier pet, a Wizard pet, a Warlock pet, a priest pet, a giant pet a small pet, an animal pet, a skeleton pet, a golem pet, a bird pet, a deer pet, a turtle pet and on and on.No wonder I get a smirk on my face when a Conjurer or Necromancer run by with their pet. Sure they have powerful pets and powerful abilities but they just are missing all the fun.Sure if you are a raiding Coercer then you are not a pet class and in groups sometimes you are and sometimes you are not. But when my Coercer solos, don't tell me I am not a pet class.Ah, on second thought, forget I said all of this. I like being a rare class.Svenghali MindravenEQ2 Level 48 CoercerSvenghali MindravenEQ1 Level 51 Enchanter

[jddro]

lol Alf but that is good information <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[ca]

great post Alf, actually makes me consider changing my coercer to my main, we shall see when he hits 70.

[Vydian]

<div><blockquote><hr>Alfgand wrote:<blockquote><hr>Aoraki wrote:I guess, don't see the coercer as a pet class. As already mentioned it is a support class like a healer. necro.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Get your self a Master charm, sell your soul if have to. Hey, you are evil anyhow. Then grab the right ^^^ a level or two above you. They lose their ^^^ status but they seem to retain their power and health. Proceed to lay waste to all the even con mobs near you, one after another, after another, without a break. Then look at the carnage around you and tell me that we are not a pet class. If you cannot do this then you are doing something wrong. (See Master spell note below)<hr></blockquote>Actually, heroic mobs DO lose their huge HP pools (not entirely sure on power, pretty sure it goes down too). Just charm a heroic and send it after another heroic,perhaps one of its friends near by, and don't help. The pet will get hammered into the ground WELL before the mob has taken much damage. On the flip side however, it seems that down arrow mobs are not scaled UP in HP and mana. If I charm a 2 or 3 down arrow fury mob, it'll go oom in a couple of fights and it gets hit alot harder visually due to lower hps. But a no arrow fury mob can be sent in almost nonstop.</div>

[gm9]

Only HP is reduced, power stays the same.

[Mordion89]

<DIV>actually, power pool is reduced too but not as much as hp pool, and im pretty sure the HP/Power "regen" is not reduced at all, u can try charming a ^^^heroic and let it get pound by an even con, it'll regen up most of it's dmg received</DIV>

[ca]

the risks associated with charming heroics for regular solo play just dont seem worth the rewards, only my opinion, I can stay alive and have a better chance of regaining charm if I choose a no arrow or better a single arrow up mob, heroics do definetly seem to regen faster which I suppose (still too low to know) will help out a great deal if you are using the master lvl 20 charm at level 50 since its built in regen is directed at a 20ish pet, or if soloing a hard enemy, or as crowd control, other than that I just don't see the point in charming a heroic pet, of course with my necro I would use my undead charm on heroics because there where not a lot of options for solo undead that could match the damage output of a spectre and they only came in heroic flavors in some spots.

[Aoi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Alfgand wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aoraki wrote:<BR>I guess, don't see the coercer as a pet class. As already mentioned it is a support class like a healer. necro.<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>Gee, I could not disagree more. I think of my Coercer as a very powerful pet class. Not in a raid environment and not in all groups. Some groups depending on the people involved and the zone lends itself to pet usage and others do not.<BR><BR>But for soloing, good grief, I don't even start until I get a good pet.<BR><BR>What a fun pet pet class we are too. We get our choice of most mobs in the zone! As others have stated here some mobs are much better for getting the job done than others but some are sheer fun.<BR><BR>I have had more people stop dead in their tracks and watch my pet in amazement. More than one send me a tell and ask what the heck is that thing?<BR><BR>Start out your Coercer on the Isle with charming the cow named Mabel and you have your own attack cow. People were rolling on the floor watching my killer cow attack things. Poor Mabel even wanted to come with me to Freeport but I told her it was not possible.(Note, you cannot normally charm named mobs)<BR><BR>In the Commonlands grab a big Rhino or Elephant as a pet. (If they still are around. lol)<BR><BR>In Nek Forest when you are that level, grab a giant tree that nukes for over a thousand. (Thats why you want a master lvl spell, it affect the damage output of the charmed pet)<BR><BR>In Thundering Steppes, what could be more fun than having a Giant follow you around and follow your commands, or a Giant turned into a huge Ratonga or Troll.<BR><BR>Go to Enchanted lands and charm one of those little deer and turn it into a Ratonga. Its not all that tough and you have to work at keeping it alive but think of the fun of having a six inch high Ratonga pet attacking mobs ten times it size.<BR><BR>Go to Everfrost and charm one of those big sharks and turn it into a Troll. Ever see a 60 foot high troll walking on water. lol You cannot take it out of the water but click on your Haddens earring and have a ball killing other sharks.<BR><BR>Go to Lavastorm grab one of those fireball elemental things and turn it into a Ratonga. You then have a Ratonga with fire oozing from it.<BR><BR>Get your self a Master charm, sell your soul if have to. Hey, you are evil anyhow. Then grab the right ^^^ a level or two above you. They lose their ^^^ status but they seem to retain their power and health. Proceed to lay waste to all the even con mobs near you, one after another, after another, without a break. Then look at the carnage around you and tell me that we are not a pet class. If you cannot do this then you are doing something wrong. (See Master spell note below)<BR><BR>Get yourself in a guild and create a good character. Then shop for your Masters on the Qeynos broker. Coercers are one of the most rare of classes and are only evil, thus the master spells sometimes go for a song on the good side. You can then use the guild bank to pass the spell over to your evil Coercer. Shop for higher level Master charm spells way ahead of when you need them. This way you are more likley to get a bargain. I wish my Wizards masters were so cheap. But there are both good and evil Wizards and Wizards are a dime a dozen so the demand for masters is much much higher. Simple supply and demand.<BR><BR>Sure you die allot but heck the fun and speedy soloing more than make up for it. I compared my Defiler to my Coercer when they both were lvl 35. The Coercer had died 187 times the Defiler 15 times !<BR><BR>There are so many different pets to experiment with and learn about. You can have a dirge pet, a SK pet, a brusier pet, a Wizard pet, a Warlock pet, a priest pet, a giant pet a small pet, an animal pet, a skeleton pet, a golem pet, a bird pet, a deer pet, a turtle pet and on and on.<BR><BR>No wonder I get a smirk on my face when a Conjurer or Necromancer run by with their pet. Sure they have powerful pets and powerful abilities but they just are missing all the fun.<BR><BR>Sure if you are a raiding Coercer then you are not a pet class and in groups sometimes you are and sometimes you are not. But when my Coercer solos, don't tell me I am not a pet class.<BR><BR>Ah, on second thought, forget I said all of this. I like being a rare class.<BR><BR>Svenghali Mindraven<BR>EQ2 Level 48 Coercer<BR><BR>Svenghali Mindraven<BR>EQ1 Level 51 Enchanter<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>While most of what you posted is true, I don't really agree Coercers are a pet class.</P> <P>First and formost we get exactly zero pet buffs, stances, or heals, and are entirely dependent on the zone we are in at the time when Charming.  So, while you can get all those pets, you certainly can't "take one with you".</P> <P>From my point of view, as I have said in other posts, Charm is a form of offensive crowd control.  This by no means is to indicate that I think we are less powerful than summoners.</P> <P>Cyene</P>