Master 1 Dominate or Adept 3 Domination ?

[hastur1]

<DIV>Hi all,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just came back after a 2 month break.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have been using charm a lot more often - it seems more stable. In reading the forums it appears that master charm is the way to go. I found a Master 1 Dominate spell for 1.6 plat on the broker so I bought it. I am currently level 64 though so I am unsure whether I should stick with it or get an adept 3. I have not tested the master yet - I will try it out tonight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What would be the difference between dominate and domination master spell ? Just the frequency of resists or does it affect the damage that the pet does ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks !</DIV>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<DIV>If you had master in both, the only difference really is duration. And how well the 3s stun when charm breaks will land (level issues on lower levels for that part of the spell).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Otherwise, it's functionally the same whether you have Coerce or Domination.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The difference between Adept 3 and Master 1 is huge. Master 1 is about 3x the damage of Adept 3.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is the reason I'm still using Beguile, as it's my only master charm I've been able to find (either in drops or on broker).</DIV>

[hastur1]

<P>Ok, so I guess it breaks a little more often - I can live with that.</P> <P> </P> <P>I was using Dominate adept 1 today and it didn't break much at all. The mob was doing 500 - 700 damage per hit... I will go back tonight to charm with my Master 1 to see if it does 1500 or so per hit. That would be sweet. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>Thanks for the info.</P>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<DIV>The Master 1 won't break more often than the higher level Adept 3, just making sure you realize that. Only difference is after it does break, it might have a harder time giving you that sonic vision/three second stun thing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Melee damage might not go up as well... as it's just melee. The charmed creature will use abilities (not melee) at the quality level of the charm, so you'll see the nukes get higher.</DIV>

[Petgroup]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Raidi Sovin'faile wrote:<div>Only difference is after it does break, it might have a harder time giving you that sonic vision/three second stun thing.</div><div> </div><div> </div><hr></blockquote>I noticed this to with my Master 1 version, is there any reason why I lost my sonic vision thing with the master version ?Its been like that for a month or 2 and I have lost all hope in /bug /feedbacking anything ever again for Sony.They never listen and when they do, it takes 6months for results, unless its pvp related or gets you 500p a minute <span>:smileyindifferent:</span></div>

[Roriondesexiest]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> nikecmh42 wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raidi Sovin'faile wrote:<BR> <DIV>Only difference is after it does break, it might have a harder time giving you that sonic vision/three second stun thing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I noticed this to with my Master 1 version, is there any reason why I lost my sonic vision thing with the master version ?<BR><BR>Its been like that for a month or 2 and I have lost all hope in /bug /feedbacking anything ever again for Sony.<BR><BR>They never listen and when they do, it takes 6months for results, unless its pvp related or gets you 500p a minute <SPAN>:smileyindifferent:</SPAN><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>If you are using Dominate lvl 47 charming mobs above 67 you probably won't get any mez or yellow screen.</P> <P>If you are using Domination lvl 61 then it is bugged...<BR></P><p>Message Edited by dalessit on <span class=date_text>07-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:59 AM</span>

[ary]

<P>So basically you are saying that a master of any level even much lower is better than the last charm you get even if the highest is an adept three.</P> <P>How does one solo then with an App IV or adept I ....is it really bad ? I am just starting this new toon and am really interested in the class but am really afraid after what I am reading here about an absolute must get master thing. See I have one char which is my highest almost 60 but have mostly adept I and even a couple of APP IV and maybe two masters in all that ,that I bought. If I need masters then I might as well stop this toon right now before I go any furthur and get disappointed. I know I cannot afford it for sure and if this is what it takes to play this class I might as well be advised of this now .</P>

[Alaeth]

You should still get the yellow screen, regardless of whether you get the stun or not. In the effects list, they're separate effects, and the yellow screen doesn't have the level restriction. That said, I've noticed times when I've gotten only the stun, only the yellow screen, or neither, so it seems to be broken in some way.

[Roriondesexiest]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> aryel wrote:<BR> <P>So basically you are saying that a master of any level even much lower is better than the last charm you get even if the highest is an adept three.</P> <P>How does one solo then with an App IV or adept I ....is it really bad ? I am just starting this new toon and am really interested in the class but am really afraid after what I am reading here about an absolute must get master thing. See I have one char which is my highest almost 60 but have mostly adept I and even a couple of APP IV and maybe two masters in all that ,that I bought. If I need masters then I might as well stop this toon right now before I go any furthur and get disappointed. I know I cannot afford it for sure and if this is what it takes to play this class I might as well be advised of this now .<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yes, that has been pretty well documented in a few posts here, some with exact numbers.</P> <P>You can get by without M1 but I think it makes life a bit harder, pets charmed with Master 1 hit 5x harder than adept 1 and 3x harder than adept 3.</P> <P>As far as the sonic vision, when I was using beguile and charming stuff well over 20 levels I never got a stun or sonic vision.  When I moved to dominate it came back.</P> <P>That is not to say that pets don't sometimes just disappear and go back to their spawn point or any of the other issues.</P> <P><BR> </P>

[hastur1]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raidi Sovin'faile wrote:<BR> <DIV>The Master 1 won't break more often than the higher level Adept 3, just making sure you realize that. Only difference is after it does break, it might have a harder time giving you that sonic vision/three second stun thing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Melee damage might not go up as well... as it's just melee. The charmed creature will use abilities (not melee) at the quality level of the charm, so you'll see the nukes get higher.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ok cool - this makes sense. I originally charmed a couple of melee type mobs and wasn't overly impressed.</P> <P>Today I tried using a Scaleborn Spiritualist in SoS today and he nuked for 1300-2000. The nuke was AE. Also when he was about to die at one point he healed himself for 1500. M1 seemed to make a big difference on this mob - great pet ! </P> <P>I will keep a lookout for caster type mobs from now on...</P>

[VerikDarkfaith]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dalessit wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> aryel wrote:<BR> <P>So basically you are saying that a master of any level even much lower is better than the last charm you get even if the highest is an adept three.</P> <P>How does one solo then with an App IV or adept I ....is it really bad ? I am just starting this new toon and am really interested in the class but am really afraid after what I am reading here about an absolute must get master thing. See I have one char which is my highest almost 60 but have mostly adept I and even a couple of APP IV and maybe two masters in all that ,that I bought. If I need masters then I might as well stop this toon right now before I go any furthur and get disappointed. I know I cannot afford it for sure and if this is what it takes to play this class I might as well be advised of this now .<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yes, that has been pretty well documented in a few posts here, some with exact numbers.</P> <P>You can get by without M1 but I think it makes life a bit harder, pets charmed with Master 1 hit 5x harder than adept 1 and 3x harder than adept 3.</P> <P>As far as the sonic vision, when I was using beguile and charming stuff well over 20 levels I never got a stun or sonic vision.  When I moved to dominate it came back.</P> <P>That is not to say that pets don't sometimes just disappear and go back to their spawn point or any of the other issues.</P> <P><BR> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I'm a little surrprised at that.  With most spells, they don't scale up that much from adept to master 1.  Not that I dno't believe you, but can anyone confirm this?<p>Message Edited by VerikDarkfaith on <span class=date_text>07-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:49 PM</span>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<P>We <STRONG>do</STRONG> have a FAQ post stickied for a reason folks.</P> <P>Yes it has been verified... that's how we came up with the 3x/5x numbers.</P> <P> </P> <P>And this isn't just unique to Coercer's charm (hence the reason why it hasn't been changed). This is how <EM>all pet spells</EM> work ever since LU 19. An NPC under the control of a PC will use their abilities (Combat Arts and Spells) at the quality level of the spell that brought it under the PCs control. Whether by charm, or summoning.</P> <P>This doesn't affect autoattack (unless specifically designed in the spell, like summoner pets/dumbfires, etc). Hence why summoners (who had half their spells as some form of pet) with master 1s were so powerful after that update, and the resulting nerfing in power. For the random dumbfire or pet that some classes get, it wasn't a big issue... it was one spell in a repetoire. Summoners saw the most increase, notice the update basically reduced only their pet-like spells.. and left their dots and dd spells pretty much alone.</P> <P> </P> <P>So yeah... find yourself a master 1 in any charm, and use it until you find a higher level one.</P>

[VerikDarkfaith]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raidi Sovin'faile wrote:<BR> <P>We <STRONG>do</STRONG> have a FAQ post stickied for a reason folks.</P> <P>Yes it has been verified... that's how we came up with the 3x/5x numbers.</P> <P> </P> <P>And this isn't just unique to Coercer's charm (hence the reason why it hasn't been changed). This is how <EM>all pet spells</EM> work ever since LU 19. An NPC under the control of a PC will use their abilities (Combat Arts and Spells) at the quality level of the spell that brought it under the PCs control. Whether by charm, or summoning.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>But masters hitting 3x as hard as adept III's?   Its pretty rare to find a spell where the master is 3x as powerful as the adept III.<BR>

[Korpo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> VerikDarkfaith wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raidi Sovin'faile wrote:<BR> <P>We <STRONG>do</STRONG> have a FAQ post stickied for a reason folks.</P> <P>Yes it has been verified... that's how we came up with the 3x/5x numbers.</P> <P> </P> <P>And this isn't just unique to Coercer's charm (hence the reason why it hasn't been changed). This is how <EM>all pet spells</EM> work ever since LU 19. An NPC under the control of a PC will use their abilities (Combat Arts and Spells) at the quality level of the spell that brought it under the PCs control. Whether by charm, or summoning.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>But masters hitting 3x as hard as adept III's?   Its pretty rare to find a spell where the master is 3x as powerful as the adept III.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>No it's not true don't worry about it keep your ad3 charm everyone is lying to you for no reason other than to make you spend money.</P> <P>On a totally unrelated note, it really irks me when people ask a question about a mechanic and then argue with your answer, like you made the mechanic and are going to up and change it based on their argument.</P>

[Tanatus]

<P>An example that prove that Master 1 is 3X more efficient - Copse Flames:</P> <P>Adept 3 charmed Corpse Flame - max hit 2400-2800 occasional crits 3200</P> <P>Master 1 charmed Corpse Flame max hit 7800-8400 occasional crits 10800</P> <P>So anyone who say that Adept 3 charm not that much worst simply lied to you</P>

[VerikDarkfaith]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> korpo53 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> VerikDarkfaith wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raidi Sovin'faile wrote:<BR> <P>We <STRONG>do</STRONG> have a FAQ post stickied for a reason folks.</P> <P>Yes it has been verified... that's how we came up with the 3x/5x numbers.</P> <P> </P> <P>And this isn't just unique to Coercer's charm (hence the reason why it hasn't been changed). This is how <EM>all pet spells</EM> work ever since LU 19. An NPC under the control of a PC will use their abilities (Combat Arts and Spells) at the quality level of the spell that brought it under the PCs control. Whether by charm, or summoning.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>But masters hitting 3x as hard as adept III's?   Its pretty rare to find a spell where the master is 3x as powerful as the adept III.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>No it's not true don't worry about it keep your ad3 charm everyone is lying to you for no reason other than to make you spend money.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Someone said the spells hit at the level of the charm (master vs adept), and that's why they were 5x as powerful  I merely pointed out that nukes rarely if ever scaled up that much from adept to master, a clear contradiction.  I WASN'T questioning that the nukes hit that much harder.  If you don't like being questioned, think through your explanations a bit more, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  </P> <P>Asking for a clarification there was entirely justfified, given that someone said the mobs would nuke at the level of the charm spell. The reason, again, is that master nukes don't come near nuking 3x as hard as the adept III's.  Even a new player like myself knows that.  </P> <P>Now on the one hand you have a claim that the monsters will do 3x as much damage when charmed with a master as opposed to an adept III.  </P> <P>On the other, someone said a mob charmed with a master spell will nuke like a master, and one charmed with an adept III will nuke at that level - this would NOT give you that much of an increase in power.  </P> <P>Yes, I know it hurts you board "regulars" deep in your soul to have to revisit a topic that has been mentioned elsewhere, but then the information that's out there can be contradictory or confusing.  Its bound to happen sometime.</P> <P>Message Edited by VerikDarkfaith on <SPAN class=date_text>07-25-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:22 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by VerikDarkfaith on <span class=date_text>07-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:26 PM</span>

[Korpo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> VerikDarkfaith wrote:<BR> <P>Someone said the spells hit at the level of the charm (master vs adept), and that's why they were 5x as powerful  I merely pointed out that nukes rarely if ever scaled up that much from adept to master, a clear contradiction.  I WASN'T questioning that the nukes hit that much harder.  If you don't like being questioned, think through your explanations a bit more, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. </P> <P>Asking for a clarification there was entirely justfified, given that someone said the mobs would nuke at the level of the charm spell. The reason, again, is that master nukes don't come near nuking 3x as hard as the adept III's.  Even a new player like myself knows that. </P> <P>Now on the one hand you have a claim that the monsters will do 3x as much damage when charmed with a master as opposed to an adept III. </P> <P>On the other, someone said a mob charmed with a master spell will nuke like a master, and one charmed with an adept III will nuke at that level - this would NOT give you that much of an increase in power. </P> <P>Yes, I know it hurts you board "regulars" deep in your soul to have to revisit a topic that has been mentioned elsewhere, but then the information that's out there can be contradictory or confusing.  Its bound to happen sometime.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Nobody around here designed the mechanic, nobody around here has any input on the mechanics of the game. All players can offer is advice and experience in using ad3 vs. m1 charm, and that experience says that m1 charm leads to at leastr 3x the dps from your pet.</P> <P>Questioning "why it works that way" does no good because as I said, nobody here designed the mechanic and nobody has the answer. It just does, accept it, buy a master charm. If you don't like the fact that you have to spend a lot of money on a master charm, don't buy one, and continue playing.</P> <P>It's not that it hurts people to revisit topics, it's that revisiting the same topic over and over again and having the same questions to which there are no answers asked over and over again is pointless. Any information out there that says m1 charm doesn't do <EM>significiantly</EM> more damage than ad3 charm is incorrect, and should be ignored. I could write that the sky is orange and it wouldn't be "contradictory or confusing", it would be stupid.</P>

[Tanatus]

Verik lol bud what kind of info you need else? I have SHOWN you in NUMBERS - for how much nuke Adept 3 charmed mobs and for how much nukes M1 charmed mob its ratio 1:3 (Adept 3: Master1) .... I did once upon time testing for Adept 1 vs. Adept 3 its pretty much same Adept 1 : Adept 3 is 1:3 ratio