LU24 ... So what do you think?

[Andu]

<div></div>Ok, I've played a fair bit this evening and been into all the new zones. Overall, I'm not as upset by the changes as I feared.<u><b>Good points</b></u>It's nice to have an encounter based AoE, even if the damage is beyond bad.The changes to the DPS buff and harmonious lines are logical and the hate reducer is a great addition.The changes to our encounter mezz have made it overall better, especially removing it from being affected by AoE's.The fact that I can now mez and stun named boss mobs is great, it made me feel useful again.The encounter based stun is pretty useful.Charm has not been messed with (other than removing the ability to chain-charm)<u><b>Bad points</b></u>Our ability to cause direct damage has been seriously nerfed. I found myself having very limited options when I wanted to damage things.Some mobs now have the ability to clear all state effects on them, even when stifled (but not stunned). This makes our reactives useless as they get cleared before they go off.I missed the extra root that the ego line offered.I missed the hate reduction portion of Confoundment, although I can offset this slightly by using Touch of Empathy.The duration of daze on Ego Torrent is pathetic compared to the recast time. I am not even convinced it was working. It also seemed to break although I could not identify why.<div></div>

[Kiintac]

I'm only level 44, so I can't speak for the high end.  But as a soloing coercer, the change to Ego Shock is hurting me REAL bad (from 15s to 45s...gah).  Did no one beg for mercy on Test for this skill? I find my self having nothing to do while I wait for Seizure to go refresh.  I'm sure this will hurt in PvP bad too.  Another skill I got use to was the stun on the run (Stupfy line).  Today I get jumped by an equal level paly while I'm on two mobs.  I had him down to basically nothing , started to run to get away from the mobs, and needed to get a stun off on the paly while I ran.  When it said interrupted, I bout cried.  That skill has helped me many times, while trying to run away.  Of course I died in that scenario. I do like the other changes for raiding, but until you reach the raiding point (if you do).  Some of the changes hurt. <div></div>

[PluvianMi]

<P>So far LU24 is terrible since we couldn't enter a single raid zone without the zone locking up, then when it got to late to do any raids because of those delays we broke into separate groups to do non-raid instances and have been having the same problems.</P>

[PluvianMi]

<DIV>Progress is being made.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now most of us can't log into the game at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ROFL.</DIV>

[DanniOlsen]

<FONT face="Tms Rmn" color=#ffffff> <P><FONT face=Verdana size=3>LU 24 good or bad ? (so far with little experience to the change)</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </P><U> <P><FONT face=Verdana size=3>RAID:</FONT></P></U> <P><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </P><I> <P><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Good:</FONT></P></I><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> <OL> <LI><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT face=Verdana size=3>In Vyemm's it great to be able to lock down those group EPIC x3 Reavers & Ravagers - Huge difference to our healers.</FONT></FONT></LI> <LI><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT face=Verdana size=3>The new hate reducing, Harmonious Link, seems to work well on warlocks and Wizards (we need more conc. slots tho!)</FONT></FONT></LI></OL><I> <P><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Bad:</FONT></P> <OL></OL></I></FONT> <LI><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Reuse timers and Epic immunity is a bid frustrating, but I need to adjust to it i guess.</FONT></FONT></LI><U> <P><FONT face=Verdana size=3>GROUP:</FONT></P></U><I> <P><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Good:</FONT></P></I><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> <OL> <LI><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Hate reducer, Harmonious Link, is great. MT has no problem with a warlock shooting away.</FONT></FONT></LI> <LI><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Group encounters are now preferred due to aoe daze, stun & mez (warlock & Coercer ROCKS)</FONT></FONT></LI></OL><I> <P><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Bad:</FONT></P> <OL></OL></I> <LI><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Reuse timers on daze and stuns makes them abit emergency like - I don't like that</FONT></FONT></LI><U> <P><FONT face=Verdana size=3>SOLO:</FONT></P></U><I> <P><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Good:</FONT></P></I><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> <OL> <LI><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Charm, Master 1, the damage seems to have increased on some caster mobs in BS?</FONT></FONT></LI> <LI><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Group encounters are now preferred due to aoe daze, stun & mez. Your pet can kill them with little damage taken.</FONT></FONT></LI> <LI><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Enough conc slot to give pet Hate increase buff & DPS increase buff without loosing all your own buffs</FONT></FONT></LI></OL><I> <P><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Bad:</FONT></P> <OL></OL></I> <LI><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Reuse timers on daze and stuns</FONT></FONT></LI> <LI><FONT face="Tms Rmn" color=#ffffff><FONT face=Verdana size=3>I miss my second root :o(</FONT></FONT></LI><U> <P><FONT face=Verdana size=3>BUG:</FONT></P></U> <P><FONT face=Verdana size=3>When charming a mob which is in a group, after a while the pet suddenly disappear ?? e.g. 2 encounter mobs - charm one and kill the other, so far so good. Then i solo with the pet and after 10-15 min it just disappear (also the engaged mob disappear)</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Verdana size=3>I ran back to the place where i charmed it, and both encounters was there - Is this some sort of encounter reset?</FONT></P> <UL></UL>

[ag]

Good:Uh, apparently we can affect epic mobs. Not that I've ever fought an epic with my Coercer, but ok.Bad:Without a second root, solo'ing is extremely risky on white con solo mobs (no arrow, or one down arrow). The only way I can survive an encounter now if root breaks is to try and stun the mob, or call off the pet and mez it. This means a) no DoT's and b) encounters take much much longer now, because stunning the mob prevents any of our reactive damage effects to go off. Why are we being at the very least encouraged or at the very worst forced into a playstyle that is contradictory to the most effective way to play our class? We have to stun to survive, but while the mob is stunned, none of our damage effects do anything.. Ooooo k.... uh... hm.I've never even tried fighting heroics with my Coercer, so no comment there.I'm not sure why they took away our second root. Now if the root breaks, I'm pretty much dead or running into adds. I'm all for a challenge, but I'm not joking even a little bit when I say last night with master 1 root it was breaking constantly (usually instantly) and 10 seconds of my cloth-bound self being beat down does not equal fun. The 10 seconds here being the root refresh.I guess if the goal/intention was to make Coercers send in their pets, cast one debuff, and then go to sleep while solo'ing, mission accomplished. At least with two roots I had options. If one broke, I could cast the second, reposition, possibly not get crushed/stunned/stifled/knocked down until dead. Now this is what happens:Send in pet. Wait 6 seconds. Apply Debuff. Mob runs to me. Cast root while mob is running to me. Pet hits target once. Root breaks. Wait 8 seconds while root cycles, or stun the mob. After stun wears off, root the target and try to run away at half or lower health. Root breaks. Try to stun again, get interrupted. /yell and /sprint.ORRoot target. Debuff Target. Apply Reactive damage effects. Send in Pet. Root Breaks. Repeat above stun/root-wait cycle.ORMez target. Apply non-damaging effects, including some debuffs and some reactives. Root target. Send in pet. Apply last debuffs. Root Breaks instantly. Repeat above stun/root-wait cycle.Oh, and the Daze effect on the Ego line <b>does not work at all. It does absolutely nothing! It is BROKEN.</b>All my casting skills are maxxed. I'm using many masters at level 46, and fighting only L+0 / L+1 no-arrow or one-down-arrow solo mobs. I'm only charming L+0 / L+1 no-arrow or one-down-arrow solo mobs. I'm not trying anything special or out of the ordinary. Oh, and I'm in full legendary gear, with many Masters, as only a proper twink alt should be. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I put my DPS buff and my Hate buff on my pet, and both of those are Masters too.I'm not frustrated. I'm amazed that these changes went Live. If this was supposed to improve Coercers, I'm extremely concerned at what would happen if they wanted to nerf us. I'm also not sure what to do now. I can't solo effectively, and I'm tired of waiting over an hour LFG because nobody understands what Coercers do and I'm tired of educating no-mind lamer punks about the salient points of my class role. /shrug Another alt on the shelf? Dunno. I guess the next week will tell, if SOE makes any changes, or not. After 46 levels, I was having a really fun time with this character. Today, not so much.EDIT: More caustic comments.<p>Message Edited by agra on <span class=date_text>06-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:05 AM</span>

[Roriondesexiest]

<DIV>Am I the only one not using root that often?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't try to fight ^^^ mobs much so maybe that is why.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I mez, debuff, used to use hate reducing stun, but will have to figure out a new one, then send my pet in and keep stunning mob when they are up, and add my own damage in and have no problems taking down almost anything of any con. so long as it isn't ^^^</DIV>

[ag]

dalessit,I'm only fighting no-arrow or one down arrow solo mobs that are my level or one level higher.I have never attempted fighting anything heroic, ever.And while a mob is stunned, none of our primary damage abilities ( 'spex, despotic, lash lines ) do anything. So... and if I put two debuffs on the mob, it is on me, not the pet. So I'm not sure how you're doing that?

[Roriondesexiest]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> agra wrote:<BR>dalessit,<BR><BR>I'm only fighting no-arrow or one down arrow solo mobs that are my level or one level higher.<BR><BR>I have never attempted fighting anything heroic, ever.<BR><BR>And while a mob is stunned, none of our primary damage abilities ( 'spex, despotic, lash lines ) do anything. So... and if I put two debuffs on the mob, it is on me, not the pet. So I'm not sure how you're doing that?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Using M1 charm I had lvl 55 pets nuking for 2.5k, put the hate buff on them and the mob will never turn.  My damage is pitiful next to a decent caster pet, I jut try to add in a bit more damage so I don't have to wait as much between fights. </P> <P>I use the stuns to give my pet a break on receiving damage for that amount of time.</P> <P>Edited to ask if you have a Master lvl charm.  That seems to make all the difference in the world from what I have read here.  Even using adept 3 spells my pet couldn't beat even conning mob without help.</P> <P> </P> <P><BR></P><p>Message Edited by dalessit on <span class=date_text>06-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:33 AM</span>

[ag]

So you don't use the reactive damage-on-damage and damage-on-casting spell lines? I thought those were our primary methods of dealing damage?My charm does not break when charming white con solo mobs, at ad1, ad3, or m1. Or so rarely, I don't consider it an issue. At the moment, I have an AD3 charm. My charm is not breaking. That's not the problem. The problem is sending the pet in, casting two debuffs, and having the monster run over and beat the gnome juice out of me before I can do anything else.<p>Message Edited by agra on <span class=date_text>06-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:36 AM</span>

[Roriondesexiest]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> agra wrote:<BR>So you don't use the reactive damage-on-damage and damage-on-casting spell lines? I thought those were our primary methods of dealing damage?<BR><BR>My charm does not break when charming white con solo mobs, at ad1, ad3, or m1. Or so rarely, I don't consider it an issue. At the moment, I have an AD3 charm. My charm is not breaking. That's not the problem. The problem is sending the pet in, casting two debuffs, and having the monster run over and beat the gnome juice out of me before I can do anything else. <P>Message Edited by agra on <SPAN class=date_text>06-15-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:36 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I do use them but their damage is minimal, so I would rather have my pet do the damage for me.  They will proc in between stuns.</P> <P>As far as the charm levels it isn't about them breaking it is about the damage they do.</P> <P>If you use adept 1 charm the mob hits with Adept 1 skills, Adept 3, adept 3 skills, Master 1, master 1 skills.</P> <P>From what has been reported here there is a 300% damage increase from Adept 3 to Master 1.</P> <P>With a pet that does that much damage, my damage spells will never turn the mob once they get a big nuke in.</P> <P>This is the big issue with the new 20 level of spell usefullness.  I am still using my level 33 Beguile at lvl 54 because it is the highest Master charm I have seen for sale on my server.    If I use the lvl 47 spell my DPS will drop through the basement...  And then I run into the exact same problem you are talking about.<BR></P>

[ag]

Well if it takes a Master Charm at every upgrade to make the class effective or reasonably fun and entertaining, it's no wonder it's the least played. grrrr.But thanks for the information, that clarifies alot. I guess I'll wait until I see a Master charm on the broker, and just group (/cringe) until then.

[Signal9]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dalessit wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> agra wrote:<BR>So you don't use the reactive damage-on-damage and damage-on-casting spell lines? I thought those were our primary methods of dealing damage?<BR><BR>My charm does not break when charming white con solo mobs, at ad1, ad3, or m1. Or so rarely, I don't consider it an issue. At the moment, I have an AD3 charm. My charm is not breaking. That's not the problem. The problem is sending the pet in, casting two debuffs, and having the monster run over and beat the gnome juice out of me before I can do anything else. <P>Message Edited by agra on <SPAN class=date_text>06-15-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:36 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I do use them but their damage is minimal, so I would rather have my pet do the damage for me.  They will proc in between stuns.</P> <P>As far as the charm levels it isn't about them breaking it is about the damage they do.</P> <P>If you use adept 1 charm the mob hits with Adept 1 skills, Adept 3, adept 3 skills, Master 1, master 1 skills.</P> <P>From what has been reported here there is a 300% damage increase from Adept 3 to Master 1.</P> <P>With a pet that does that much damage, my damage spells will never turn the mob once they get a big nuke in.</P> <P>This is the big issue with the new 20 level of spell usefullness.  I am still using my level 33 Beguile at lvl 54 because it is the highest Master charm I have seen for sale on my server.    <FONT color=#ff3300>If I use the lvl 47 spell my DPS will drop through the basement...  And then I run into the exact same problem you are talking about.<BR></FONT></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yes, there is that much difference between Adept 3, and Master 1.

[Roriondesexiest]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> agra wrote:<BR>Well if it takes a Master Charm at every upgrade to make the class effective or reasonably fun and entertaining, it's no wonder it's the least played. grrrr.<BR><BR>But thanks for the information, that clarifies alot. I guess I'll wait until I see a Master charm on the broker, and just group (/cringe) until then.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>NP,</P> <P>That is the simple fact (though I have seen some threads where people dispute that) that non-coercers just don't seem to get.  Without a Master level charm life is much more difficult.  From what I have seen, and others have posted the 20 level thing isn't as bad as we thought, though would like to see from a lvl 70 coercer using lvl 33 beguile master how well charm works.</P> <P>As far as I know no other class has this issue, yes Master level spells are always nice but as far as I no not nearly as important.  On my warlock my Adept 3 spells did massive damage and the master level ones did a bit more but not 3x the amount of damage.</P> <P>Not saying that our CC is useless, but there seem to be 2 different schools of thought on coercer, CC major with a minor in chaming or Charming major with a CC minor.</P> <P>I am of the later group, I always want to have the best pet I can in any zone, and I cc when needed, becasue most groups don't even need or want it.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>To OP</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bad things:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Sever</STRONG> nerf of CC abilities .... hurts bad. During solo I heavy relay on 2 roots - now I have 1.... Heroic mobs STILL immune to stun so go figue ....solo abilities severely nerfed. Recast timers on Stuns changed from 30s to 45s on EVERY SINGLE STUN..... Reduction duration of primary mezes and stuns hurt too <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Why it was nessesary to nerf most players to please PvPers?. Loosing ability cast Confoundment on a run - hurt as well</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>DPS reduced badly - adding extra damage to both our dots not cut it off... Viscous Torment do now 276-298 damage a tic (use to be 232-26<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> use to be 62.5DPS now its 72DPS... Breakedown do extra 400-800 on termination same 176-235 per tic so instead of 51.4DPS it do now 76.4DPS.... Ego Torrend do now 786-998 (after robe focus) area affect out of encounter every 45s use to do 956-1099 single target every 15s</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good thing:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ALL mobs who use to be immune to mez now can be mezable - runned trough hall of fate yestoday .... had a pleasant suprise - cents are mezable now</DIV> <DIV>Raid-wide de-agro buff - great (heh just bought M1 copy of it for 5pp - 23% permanent de-agro great)</DIV> <DIV>2 encounter wide stuns ..... helpfull for AoE groups</DIV>

[Alaeth]

<blockquote><hr>dalessit wrote:<p>NP,</p><p>That is the simple fact (though I have seen some threads where people dispute that) that non-coercers just don't seem to get. Without a Master level charm life is much more difficult. From what I have seen, and others have posted the 20 level thing isn't as bad as we thought, <b>though would like to see from a lvl 70 coercer using lvl 33 beguile master how well charm works.</b></p><p>As far as I know no other class has this issue, yes Master level spells are always nice but as far as I no not nearly as important. On my warlock my Adept 3 spells did massive damage and the master level ones did a bit more but not 3x the amount of damage.</p><p>Not saying that our CC is useless, but there seem to be 2 different schools of thought on coercer, CC major with a minor in chaming or Charming major with a CC minor.</p><p>I am of the later group, I always want to have the best pet I can in any zone, and I cc when needed, becasue most groups don't even need or want it.</p><hr></blockquote>Well, I'm not level 70, but I have M1 Coerce, Beguile, and Dominate (of which Dominate is the only one still in the 20-level "safe zone&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, and I was unable to see any significant difference in resistance or break chance between them.As for damage scaling, the idea that your charm quality equals the quality of spells/CAs your pet will use seems not to be true--or at least not strictly true. I've been gathering data which I plan on using in a much longer post, but my basic conclusion is that something is seriously strange about spell scaling for mobs. I noticed you're around level 55, so some of the best soloing pets for your level are the Windsister Dustfeathers in PoF; if you look at the values on their DoTs and HoTs (readable off the target buff/debuff window) as well as the average values of their nukes and direct heals, you'll notice that they're slightly more than twice as powerful as an equally-leveled player Fury's M1-quality spells, with the exception of the AoE nuke. Wizard pet spells follow the same general rule, though more of them are in-line with what PCs can use, and Warlock pet spells actually tend to be a bit underpowered compared to their PC counterparts. By far the most surprising, though--at least to me--are Paladin pets, which nuke for well over four times the strength of PC Paladins, though since their good nukes are on fairly long timers, they don't make great pets in any event.

[Roriondesexiest]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Alaeth wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dalessit wrote: <P>NP,</P> <P>That is the simple fact (though I have seen some threads where people dispute that) that non-coercers just don't seem to get. Without a Master level charm life is much more difficult. From what I have seen, and others have posted the 20 level thing isn't as bad as we thought, <B>though would like to see from a lvl 70 coercer using lvl 33 beguile master how well charm works.</B></P> <P>As far as I know no other class has this issue, yes Master level spells are always nice but as far as I no not nearly as important. On my warlock my Adept 3 spells did massive damage and the master level ones did a bit more but not 3x the amount of damage.</P> <P>Not saying that our CC is useless, but there seem to be 2 different schools of thought on coercer, CC major with a minor in chaming or Charming major with a CC minor.</P> <P>I am of the later group, I always want to have the best pet I can in any zone, and I cc when needed, becasue most groups don't even need or want it.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Well, I'm not level 70, but I have M1 Coerce, Beguile, and Dominate (of which Dominate is the only one still in the 20-level "safe zone"), and I was unable to see any significant difference in resistance or break chance between them.<BR><BR>As for damage scaling, the idea that your charm quality equals the quality of spells/CAs your pet will use seems not to be true--or at least not strictly true. I've been gathering data which I plan on using in a much longer post, but my basic conclusion is that something is seriously strange about spell scaling for mobs. I noticed you're around level 55, so some of the best soloing pets for your level are the Windsister Dustfeathers in PoF; if you look at the values on their DoTs and HoTs (readable off the target buff/debuff window) as well as the average values of their nukes and direct heals, you'll notice that they're slightly more than twice as powerful as an equally-leveled player Fury's M1-quality spells, with the exception of the AoE nuke. Wizard pet spells follow the same general rule, though more of them are in-line with what PCs can use, and Warlock pet spells actually tend to be a bit underpowered compared to their PC counterparts. By far the most surprising, though--at least to me--are Paladin pets, which nuke for well over four times the strength of PC Paladins, though since their good nukes are on fairly long timers, they don't make great pets in any event.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Yep the "Using M1 charm I had lvl 55 pets nuking for 2.5k" was a dustfeather.<BR></DIV>

[Tanatus]

<P>Word of advice instead of dustfeather try Kromtarr Magi <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> .... you might be pleasantly suprised</P> <P>For melee pets look after Zerkers and Brigand type NPC ....</P>

[Rominian]

<DIV>My opinion is thus:  We took it in the shorts guys, we got nerfed worse than any other class out there in terms of what we can do.  My biggest problem is the AE mez change, it is HORRIBLE!! I cant believe that people have posted that as a plus.  So what if youre AE mez now removes targets from AOE?  Did you stop to think that you CANT remez a group anymore??  You get one, and then guess what?  The rest come and beat the snot out of you.  Up to this point I have had a lot of fun with my character, besides the problems, but now I am seriously thinking about quitting. Nearly every spell we have took a hit of some sort, an outright change or a reduction in effectiveness, I am SO not happy with SOE for this.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Plus:  we can now stun an epic for a short time</DIV> <DIV>          we can mez epics for a short time</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Minus: EVERYTHING else they did.</DIV>

[HouseMi]

<div><blockquote><hr>Rominian wrote:<div>...My biggest problem is the AE mez change, it is HORRIBLE!! I cant believe that people have posted that as a plus.  So what if youre AE mez now removes targets from AOE?  Did you stop to think that you CANT remez a group anymore??  You get one, and then guess what?  The rest come and beat the snot out of you....</div><hr></blockquote>Maybe I am reading wrong but how are we no longer able to remez groups?Mine works just fine...Using Breathtaking Awe Adept 1, I have 21s of mez and 15s to recast.  That gives me 6s to make fun of Illusionists, /poke the cleric, and recast.</div>

[PluvianMi]

<P>Having the group mez now prevent AOEs is both a good and a bad thing depending on the situation.</P> <P>If you're in a low DPS group then it is useful because it locks down the mobs and there is less chance of players in your group accidentally breaking mezz on any of the mobs.</P> <P>If you're in a high DPS group it slows the group down because their AOE's won't do any damage to the mezzed mobs.</P> <P>I've you're soloing it is again useful.</P> <P> </P> <P>Since my charm is an M1 Beguile I haven't noticed it being resisted more often even against the level 72+ ^^^ heroics in the new zone(s), however, they do seem to break the charm more frequently.</P> <P>I didn't really pay attention to the amount of damage the charmed mobs were doing.</P> <P> </P> <P>One of the strange things to me overall was that I seemed to use up my power much more quickly since LU24 was released - that was happening in the raid last night as well as in groups after the raid.</P> <P> </P> <P>I still haven't played enough to have a good feel for all of the changes yet, however, overall it doesn't seem as bad as I feared and might actually end up being good overall since I raid multiple times per week.</P>

[Fiercemind]

<P>                Housemaih wrote:</P> <P>                Maybe I am reading wrong but how are we no longer able to remez groups?<BR><BR>                 Mine works just fine...<BR>                --------</P> <P>I know exactly what Romanian was refering too. </P> <P>Let me give a few examples:</P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P>Ever cast an AE mez, and it lands on one target because the other mobs weren't close enough?  Now your AE mez is now down for 15 seconds while you have 4 mobs beating on ya.  You're not able to AE remez for another 15 seconds.</P> <P>Ever cast an AE mez while soloing because your pet could not hold agro on a 4+ mob encounter, with a 2nd group of mobs that added?  Guess what, you can't lock them all down by re AE mezing.  Prior to LU24, you could.  The recast timers now will not allow you to do it.</P> <P>Ever pull a name with multiple mobs in the same encounter and during the pull another group or two adds?  AE mez is only going to be able to handle one of those groups, and you better hope you don't get resists because you have a lot of single mezzing and rooting/stunning to perform.  </P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>LU24 took a lot of the fun out of the soloing coercer.  LU24 sux IMO</P><p>Message Edited by Fiercemind on <span class=date_text>06-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:38 PM</span>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<P>This is the big issue with the new 20 level of spell usefullness.  I am still using my level 33 Beguile at lvl 54 because it is the highest Master charm I have seen for sale on my server.    If I use the lvl 47 spell my DPS will drop through the basement...  And then I run into the exact same problem you are talking about.<BR></P> <P>Charm was not affected by the 20 level issue... at least not the charm factor. The little bit of grace we get (3s stun on break) has the 20 level resist issue.. but that's it.</P> <P>So charm away with Beguile Master 1, just keep in mind that you'll probably not have the fancy "stuns on break" that we got oh so recently anymore. It won't affect the duration or early breaking, whatsoever.</P>

[PluvianMi]

<DIV>With so many of the T7 raid instances messed up because of LU24 changes we decided to hit a couple of old T6 instances that we haven't been to in a why this past week.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Since I didn't need to worry about croud control or power regen very much I decided to do some DPSing at times.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With the change to Ego Torrent to a group damage + daze spell I was playing around with it combined with Awe and Wail (haven't upgraded to Boom since I had Wail at M1 and haven't seen a Boom M1 yet) and without any use of the AGI spell casting time decreasers (mostly because I didn't have any of those) against large groups of mobs I was able to maintain at least 2k DPS and frequently came close to 3K dps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It was somewhat hilarious being at the top of the DPS list without really doing much of anything but those 3 spells.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>OTOH: A couple of the Wizards on the raid were frequently hitting 6K DPS against those same groups of mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its amazing what a difference a tier can make for one's feeling of "uberness" for a little while though.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Schoe]

<DIV>To the AE mez:</DIV> <DIV>Thanks to it's new ability to prevent mobs from beeing affected by AEs it does indeed BLOCK ITSELF. Did you never wonder why your AE mezzed group runs upon you beating you down in no time after you just remezzed them? Well, at least all of that group except the one you recasted your AE mez on. That is ridiculous. You now have exactly a window of 20 secs to beat down a whole encounter ... otherwise you find yourself with your face in the dust. As a coercer with only AD3 charms (there are just no M1-charms available at the Broker on the german PvP-Server) soloing is a pain, even with the ability to lock down a whole encounter until the end of all times. But now i am not even able to handle a green conned encounter with no arrows or even down arrows. With Luck i get down one mob within the duration of my AE mez. Then its always the same. They beat down my pet in seconds, then run for me. AE stun and daze just buy me more time to find a nice place to die at, thanks to the 45 secs recast timers. Well i managed to handle the groups with much practice, but it is really annoying to fight a green conned solo encounter for minutes, running around, AE stunning, mezzing, dazing and rooting the mobs all the time and getting out of the fight with about 5% health and power. And while you sit there for some minutes getting your adrenalin down and regging up again you see a Bruiser fighten the same encounter ... with two differences: They are yellow-conned to him and he smacks them down in a few seconds going out of it with full health an a powerloss thats not mentionable. I don't see any balance in this.</DIV> <DIV>But well ... i always thought of the coercer as a group-char. So what is my job in a group, now that i cant lock down an added encounter anymore, respectively thanks to the lowered duration of the mezzes i single mez three mobs and can't do anything else than recast the singlemez all the time? Well, my EQ2 as a post LU24 is as follows: Find a group, throw on the manarings, get sticked and find a good book to read while you recast your eye line spell every 10 minutes.</DIV> <DIV>Ok, i throw in a stun here and a daze there, but my work as a croud controler is better done by any warlock or other mage type with an encounter root.</DIV> <DIV>Thanks SOE for that "improvement". I am really greatful you finally managed to steal the last bit of fun of me. I myself decided to quit my beloved coercer as long as things stay as they are now.</DIV>