Charmed pet doesn't give you exp anymore

[hisawat]

Well, I really liked coercer because we could charm a ^^^ mob and let him die and  get exp from him still. (half though)I thought coercer was the best soloing calss because of this, but not anymore.  I did it today, but I didn't get exp anymore.It is kinda pointless to have charmed pet now.  Illusionist personae is much better IMO.<div></div>

[Dogm]

<DIV>You didn't really think it was intended did you?</DIV>

[Roriondesexiest]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> hisawat wrote:<BR>Well, I really liked coercer because we could charm a ^^^ mob and let him die and  get exp from him still. (half though)<BR>I thought coercer was the best soloing calss because of this, but not anymore.  I did it today, but I didn't get exp anymore.<BR>It is kinda pointless to have charmed pet now.  Illusionist personae is much better IMO.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>ROFL, all the changes and that is the best thing you can come up with?</P> <P> </P>

[Azmode]

Good, maybe this will put an end to all these twink coercers comming up.  Please dont complain about that fix, it was certainly a bug.  BUT It means they TINKERED with charm and its probably going to be broke in some way.

[KamidariTuibumbi]

<div></div>If you think there's no value in a pet that can nuke in the many 1000's and heal itself, then sure, there's no point in charming any more.  I never did do the whole letting your pet die to get exp thing (well, not on purpose <span>anyway :smileywink: ), because it just felt wrong.Edited 'cause my smiley was messed up!</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by KamidariTuibumbi on <span class=date_text>06-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:49 PM</span>

[HouseMi]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>hisawat wrote:Well, I really liked coercer because we could charm a ^^^ mob and let him die and  get exp from him still. (half though)I thought coercer was the best soloing calss because of this, but not anymore.  I did it today, but I didn't get exp anymore.It is kinda pointless to have charmed pet now.  Illusionist personae is much better IMO.<div></div><hr></blockquote>So basically you chose Coercer over Illusy to be able to use an possible exploit and power-level yourself and now you are mad that it got fixed?I just dont understand how so many people think using a charmed pet is useless. I can effectively solo with a charmed pet - many other <b>real</b> Coercers can too.I can drastically add to the DPS of a 6 man group with the right charmed pet - Many other <b>real</b> coercers can too.I can drastically debuff some tough mobs using the right pet - Many other <b>real</b> coercers can too.I am seeing a pattern here and sorry you dont fit in.**Our Class Defining ability is not pointless!/rant off <span>:smileyhappy:</span></div><p>Message Edited by HouseMiah on <span class=date_text>06-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:47 PM</span>

[Rahatmattata]

<P>I'm so tired of several people repeating <STRONG>real </STRONG>coercers charm, and implying you have to have a master1 charm to be a <STRONG>real </STRONG>coercer. Whatever man... <STRONG>real </STRONG>and skillful<STRONG> </STRONG>coercers are masters of crowd control. I'm sorry, but there's nothing skillful about buying Dominate Master 1 on the broker, pushing the Charm button, and then the Attack button. Yes, I do have Dominate Master 1, and no I will never go back to adept 3 charm, but I have recieved much much more praise for my abilities to complety lock down multiple encounter adds, and saving my group from a total wipe, than I have from charming a pet and DPSing. I play a coercer for crowd control, if I wanted to mainly DPS, I would have rolled a wizard, warlock, conjurour, necro, assassin, or ranger. IMO mezz is our bread and butter. Yes I do charm, and yes I can still CC just as well while managing a pet, but to imply you must have the plat and/or good fortune to obtain a master charm to be a <STRONG>real </STRONG>coercer is silly. A skillful coercer is skilled weather they have charm app2 or master 1.</P> <P>Using the charm exploit on the other hand and chain charming, is not skillful in any way. I'll admit I did it when soloing until I got a master charm. At that time I was working with adept1 charm. I'm not saying what I did was 'right', and I knew my solo methods were not intended, but I had my reasons for doing it. Mainly because I <STRONG>HATE </STRONG>soloing... that's just me... I don't enjoy single player games in general, and I always prefer to be in a group. I find myself either sitting on the docks in EFP /lfg all night, or I have to go solo because let's face it... many people in this game desire solo play and it can be [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] hard to find a group. So, knowing that I can chain charm heroic mobs and get good group xp, vs soloing solo mobs, I decided to take the path of most xp/hour. I was once or twice able to solo a high blue^^^ squirrel in RV using the tradition method of root, ego root, stun, stun with my adept 1 pet, and although I drained all my power to do so, it felt good. I agree with chain charming being fixed, as I've alwasy known it was never intended.</P> <P>Charm is definatly a huge integral part of being a coercer, but if I had to lose either mezz or charm, I'd lose the charm and keep my mezz. Naturally, many people won't agree with me, but as I said before, the reason <STRONG>I </STRONG>play coercer is for CC. <STRONG>Real </STRONG>coercers can turn an ugly situation, a definate group wipe... into nice managable encounters and a good spike of XP.</P> <P> </P> <P>P.S. This post is not directed at you HouseMiah, it's a post about general statements of 'get a master 1 charm or you are [Removed for Content] and might as well re-roll'.  I know it probably seems directed at your post, but I have seen many threads and posts about real coercers have Master 1 charm. Anything else and your just a pretend coercer. After seeing yet another post like that, I finally decided to post my opinion about real vs pretend coercers (not that my opinion is right). And again, to the OP: there is no skill in chain charming. If you are indeed a <STRONG>real </STRONG>coercer, you will do just fine without exploiting the charm bug.</P> <P>Message Edited by Cannibas on <SPAN class=date_text>06-14-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:35 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Cannibas on <span class=date_text>06-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:40 PM</span>

[HouseMi]

<div><blockquote><hr>Cannibas wrote:<div></div> <p>I'm so tired of several people repeating <strong>real </strong>coercers charm, and implying you have to have a master1 charm to be a <strong>real </strong>coercer. Whatever man... <strong>real </strong>and skillful<strong> </strong>coercers are masters of crowd control. I'm sorry, but there's nothing skillful about buying Dominate Master 1 on the broker, pushing the Charm button, and then the Attack button. Yes, I do have Dominate Master 1, and no I will never go back to adept 3 charm, but I have recieved much much more praise for my abilities to complety lock down multiple encounter adds, and saving my group from a total wipe, than I have from charming a pet and DPSing. I play a coercer for crowd control, if I wanted to mainly DPS, I would have rolled a wizard, warlock, conjurour, necro, assassin, or ranger. IMO mezz is our bread and butter. </p> <p>Charm is definatly a huge integral part of being a coercer, but if I had to lose either mezz or charm, I'd lose the charm and keep my mezz. Naturally, many people won't agree with me, but as I said before, the reason <strong>I </strong>play coercer is for CC. <strong>Real </strong>coercers can turn an ugly situation, a definate group wipe... into nice managable encounters and a good spike of XP.</p><hr></blockquote>Please dont get me wrong, this is not at all what I was saying.The fact is that charm, just like CC, is a vital skill of ours. and people saying that it is useless because they can no longer solo yellow ^^^ and get full group XP is what i was ranting about.I understand our biggest role is CC always has been the Enchanters job from the days of yore when I started playing my first enchanter. It is our bread and butter and that is truly what I love about the class.I was stating that a real coercers know all of thier abilities and how to use all of them. Mez, Stun, Charm and even Blue Bar Regen.So please, Cannibas, because this small community of ours hardly ever turns angry and I like it that way <span>:smileyhappy:</span>I would like to extend the "Olive Branch" and ensure that you understand the meaning of my rant.</div>

[Rahatmattata]

Yes, I hit the submit button a bit too soon... I was editing my post to try and be more clear, while apparently you were typing your response. As above, my response was not directed at you per-se, just other statements I have seen in general. Not meaning to flame, just posting my own opinion (right or wrong).

[Vorlak]

<DIV>heh, oh well guess just have to charm corpse flames again.</DIV>

[HouseMi]

<div></div><span>:smileywink:K, good, feel better now. I completely understand your frustration with those type of posts.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by HouseMiah on <span class=date_text>06-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:48 PM</span>

[ElanieGi]

<font color="#ff0000"><b>*DISCLAIMER* THIS IS NOT DIRECTED AT ANYONE IN PARTICULAR!!! *DISCLAIMER* </b><font color="#ffffff">I couldn't agree more with what you say Cannibas. I'm tired of being labled "[Removed for Content]" because I don't have a master charm, or choose not to charm in groups. I have personally decided to spare groups my mistakes until I feel i can effectively control them. That means I need more time solo testing out methods until I'm really comfortable with it. I betrayed, so honestly I've only been a coercer for like 7 levels now, and thats why I  am not yet comfortable with charming by level 26. Yes I'm a lowbie, but I played a chanter for many years in EQ1 and was also not comfortable charming until I had some practice solo to make sure I could get it recharmed by myself before I subjected my groups to my charm haha.</font> </font><div></div>

[HouseMi]

<div>Back to the original topic:<blockquote><hr>hisawat wrote:...Illusionist personae is much better IMO.<div></div><hr></blockquote>There is nothing better about Illusy's. Anything you could bring up is completely negated by the fact that they hail from Qeynos. <span>:smileytongue:</span></div>

[Shipwreck_GPA]

<DIV>Slightly OT, but does anyone remember Charming a shaman giant to land a slow on Vindi in Kael in EQ1?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I loved doing that. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Tanatus]

<P>a) yes you ARE [Removed for Content] you dont have master 1 DOMINATION not Dominate</P> <P>b) If you cannt solo everything that not cons Epic - you ARE [Removed for Content] and skilless coercer</P> <P>c) If you think that having master 1 Domination have anything to do with my ability solo named heroic - you know nothing about coercer class. I can solo named heroic even with Apprentice 1 charm and still will win - it only matter of time.... With M1 I can solo em 10X faster then person with Adept 1</P> <P>d) Removing exp gain from pet death is A GOOD thing - that was an exploit and everyone who used that are exploiters. Heck personally I used that "game option" for only 1 things - getting update for some quests ... Believe you or not but but killing SOLO ~100 Scaleborn warriors in SoS in order to get update for Blood of the Brood aren't my conception of fun</P> <P>e) Person who think Personae better then Charmed pet picked wrong class to play - he can betray city and become illuionist he wont lose anything because his charm was obviously at App 1 level lol. Lol good charmed pet EASY break mark 900DPS and I yet to see a class who compete with my DPS in HoF, Vaults and BS</P>

[Sy]

<blockquote><hr>Cannibas wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <p>I'm so tired of several people repeating <strong>real </strong>coercers charm, and implying you have to have a master1 charm to be a <strong>real </strong>coercer. Whatever man... <strong>real </strong>and skillful<strong> </strong>coercers are masters of crowd control. I'm sorry, but there's nothing skillful about buying Dominate Master 1 on the broker, pushing the Charm button, and then the Attack button. </p><hr></blockquote>I dont push an attack button. My pet attack is linked with Auspex and Focus..... Stuns mob ... pet gets aggro.. then my dps starts... works well.... So i dont just PUSH attack for strategy.  Dude.. CC?  Well thats Alt 2 for me.. AE mez incoming... click on anything still moving.. and mez... Thats a tough one.. I donno how you do it man.. Thats amazing! Ok ok.. I do agree with your point CC is our strength... But honestly get master charm..... get every master.. and lay off the people who have it..  People all mastered out can just push buttons and get more dps then a coercer who knows what he is doing but only has adept1's.  Now the coercer who knows what he is doing and has all masters.. thats a player! BTW....    Charm acts as CC too.. Eliminates 1 mob from the fight... Sure hope you get domination m1 instead of dominate m1<div></div>

[Pins]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> HouseMiah wrote:<BR> <DIV>Back to the original topic:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> hisawat wrote:<BR>...Illusionist personae is much better IMO.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>There is nothing better about Illusy's. Anything you could bring up is completely negated by the fact that they hail from Qeynos. <SPAN>:smileytongue:</SPAN><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Illusionist personae is no longer even equal to a high quality charmed pet.

[Azmode]

<P>It may not be equal to a high quality charmed pet, but you dont have to jump through hoops for it either.  </P> <P>Click the pet and its there.  You dont have to see it poofing on you in the middle of a cloud ride.  You dont have to worry about  running invis through aggro mobs and your pet breaks INSTANTLY breaking your invis and getting you killed.  You dont have to worry about your pet breaking in the middle of a hell pull.   Charms are also zone dependant.   You can only try to charm mobs which are in the zone your in.  You also cannot zone with them.   </P> <P>So yes personaes should not be as good as charmed pets.  Charmed mobs are risk/aggravation  vs. reward.</P>

[Ramladu]

<div><blockquote><hr><div></div>BUT It means they TINKERED with charm and its probably going to be broke in some way.<hr></blockquote>I think this is the worst part.  I had a charmed pet in forsaken city yesterday.  Charm broke with no sonic vision warning and no stun.  The mob warped back to it's spawn point (which happened to be a room FULL of mobs) and the entire room agro'd and wiped my group in seconds.  It was a ^^^ mob so it had nothing to do with an encounter reset.  Yeah, the experience thing was obviously an unintended side effect of making it so charm couldn't be used to grief, and I'm not surprised it was fixed.  I'm actually surprised it took this long.  If they screw up charm so it's not even moderately safe to use in any situation, though, I'm not too happy about it.</div>

[ElanieGi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <P>a) yes you ARE [Removed for Content] you dont have master 1 DOMINATION not Dominate</P> <P>b) If you cannt solo everything that not cons Epic - you ARE [Removed for Content] and skilless coercer</P> <P>c) If you think that having master 1 Domination have anything to do with my ability solo named heroic - you know nothing about coercer class. I can solo named heroic even with Apprentice 1 charm and still will win - it only matter of time.... With M1 I can solo em 10X faster then person with Adept 1</P> <P>d) Removing exp gain from pet death is A GOOD thing - that was an exploit and everyone who used that are exploiters. Heck personally I used that "game option" for only 1 things - getting update for some quests ... Believe you or not but but killing SOLO ~100 Scaleborn warriors in SoS in order to get update for Blood of the Brood aren't my conception of fun</P> <P>e) Person who think Personae better then Charmed pet picked wrong class to play - he can betray city and become illuionist he wont lose anything because his charm was obviously at App 1 level lol. Lol good charmed pet EASY break mark 900DPS and I yet to see a class who compete with my DPS in HoF, Vaults and BS</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That is an extremely elitist attitude. I would much rather take a skilled person with adept 1-3's than a jerk like you with all your masters and your ego so big you can't fit in the dungeons I hunt in.

[Azmode]

You must be new Elanie.  That is just Tanatus being Tanatus.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Roriondesexiest]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Azmodeus wrote:<BR> You must be new Elanie.  That is just Tanatus being Tanatus.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>ROFL, was going to say the same thing, he is always direct and to the point <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Rahatmattata]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Syan wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cannibas wrote:<BR> <P>I'm so tired of several people repeating <STRONG>real </STRONG>coercers charm, and implying you have to have a master1 charm to be a <STRONG>real </STRONG>coercer. Whatever man... <STRONG>real </STRONG>and skillful<STRONG> </STRONG>coercers are masters of crowd control. I'm sorry, but there's nothing skillful about buying Dominate Master 1 on the broker, pushing the Charm button, and then the Attack button.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I dont push an attack button. My pet attack is linked with Auspex and Focus..... Stuns mob ... pet gets aggro.. then my dps starts... works well.... So i dont just PUSH attack for strategy.  Dude.. CC?  Well thats Alt 2 for me.. AE mez incoming... click on anything still moving.. and mez... Thats a tough one.. I donno how you do it man.. Thats amazing!<BR><STRONG><EM>Well, because targeting in this game is such a pain in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], it actually does take some running around and positioning so i can click on the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] mob in the first place. Even still, AE mez, then mezzing remaining adds is slightly more difficult than charming a mob and sending it to attack. Honestly nothing in the game really requires skill, it's all just select mob, click macro. But that's the nature of MMOs... it's not like Unreal or something where you actually have to be skilled at aiming and jumping and dodging etc, so... whatever man.</EM></STRONG></P> <P><BR>Ok ok.. I do agree with your point CC is our strength... But honestly get master charm..... get every master.. and lay off the people who have it..  People all mastered out can just push buttons and get more dps then a coercer who knows what he is doing but only has adept1's.  Now the coercer who knows what he is doing and has all masters.. thats a player!<BR><STRONG><EM>I have master charm, I also have a few other masters... doesn't make much difference on my play style at all really. I still click the same buttons, I still know what I'm doing whether my skills are app1 or M1, it doesn't matter. I don't have several plat to spend to completely M1 my spells out. Gratz to you if you do.</EM></STRONG><BR><BR>BTW....    Charm acts as CC too.. Eliminates 1 mob from the fight... Sure hope you get domination m1 instead of dominate m1<BR><STRONG><EM>Yea, charm is CC too... thanks for stating the obvious. I don't see what this has to do with the whole theme of 'get master charm or you are [Removed for Content]' but ok... Seeing as I am level 47, even if I had Domination, I would still have a long way to go to scribe it, so your point here is useless. Besides, WT F do you care what spells I get? Don't worry about me and what I do, you just concentrate on your own toon, and I'll worry about mine K?</EM></STRONG></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Another dumb [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] elitist post for me to flame. Quality of spell does not equal player skill. You can have all app1 spells and still no what the hell you're doing and be a skilled player. That is if you consider targeting mob A and pushing button B at Z time skilled. And Tantlas or whatever the hell your name is, that has to be the dumbest, moronic, ignorant, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], ego bosting, lame, useless post I have seen on this thread in a long long time. I'm not even going to bother to spend any time dissecting your "post" and flaming the hell out of you for it, because just by posting you show what a POS you are.</P> <P>Thx KK c u n g4m3 guy.</P>

[Brew01]

<DIV>IMO this was a bit over powered and probably was an exploit in saying that I'm still sad to see it go. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Elina I'm there with you until recently I had no clue this jerk Tantus even had an eq account and now that I do I feel sorry for any group he is in. Coercers take skill and the only thing upgraded your spells will do for you is make the job easier, if you suck as a coercer with App1s you will suck as a coercer with M1. </DIV>

[JackAll]

<P><SPAN>I must admit I find this thread insanely funny.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>You got all these new holier than thou coercers that say they have all this crazy skill.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Yet they can’t solo.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>And what’s even better.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>They think enchanters are for CC. LOL</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Ok, I’m done <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Seriously though, CC plays an extremely small role in EQ2 and you will find as you get up in level that if you don’t do your share of dps you are not welcome. <SPAN> </SPAN>You just can’t park your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in a corner and announce that you are CC so you don’t care what your dps is.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=3></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P>Message Edited by JackAll on <SPAN class=date_text>06-16-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>12:45 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by JackAll on <span class=date_text>06-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:45 AM</span>

[Gorathh]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Cannibas wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Syan wrote:<blockquote><hr>Cannibas wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>I'm so tired of several people repeating <strong>real </strong>coercers charm, and implying you have to have a master1 charm to be a <strong>real </strong>coercer. Whatever man... <strong>real </strong>and skillful<strong> </strong>coercers are masters of crowd control. I'm sorry, but there's nothing skillful about buying Dominate Master 1 on the broker, pushing the Charm button, and then the Attack button.</p><hr></blockquote><p>I dont push an attack button. My pet attack is linked with Auspex and Focus..... Stuns mob ... pet gets aggro.. then my dps starts... works well.... So i dont just PUSH attack for strategy.  Dude.. CC?  Well thats Alt 2 for me.. AE mez incoming... click on anything still moving.. and mez... Thats a tough one.. I donno how you do it man.. Thats amazing!<strong><em>Well, because targeting in this game is such a pain in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], it actually does take some running around and positioning so i can click on the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] mob in the first place. Even still, AE mez, then mezzing remaining adds is slightly more difficult than charming a mob and sending it to attack. Honestly nothing in the game really requires skill, it's all just select mob, click macro. But that's the nature of MMOs... it's not like Unreal or something where you actually have to be skilled at aiming and jumping and dodging etc, so... whatever man.</em></strong></p><p>Ok ok.. I do agree with your point CC is our strength... But honestly get master charm..... get every master.. and lay off the people who have it..  People all mastered out can just push buttons and get more dps then a coercer who knows what he is doing but only has adept1's.  Now the coercer who knows what he is doing and has all masters.. thats a player!<strong><em>I have master charm, I also have a few other masters... doesn't make much difference on my play style at all really. I still click the same buttons, I still know what I'm doing whether my skills are app1 or M1, it doesn't matter. I don't have several plat to spend to completely M1 my spells out. Gratz to you if you do.</em></strong>BTW....    Charm acts as CC too.. Eliminates 1 mob from the fight... Sure hope you get domination m1 instead of dominate m1<strong><em>Yea, charm is CC too... thanks for stating the obvious. I don't see what this has to do with the whole theme of 'get master charm or you are [Removed for Content]' but ok... Seeing as I am level 47, even if I had Domination, I would still have a long way to go to scribe it, so your point here is useless. Besides, WT F do you care what spells I get? Don't worry about me and what I do, you just concentrate on your own toon, and I'll worry about mine K?</em></strong></p><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Another dumb [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] elitist post for me to flame. Quality of spell does not equal player skill. You can have all app1 spells and still no what the hell you're doing and be a skilled player. That is if you consider targeting mob A and pushing button B at Z time skilled. And Tantlas or whatever the hell your name is, that has to be the dumbest, moronic, ignorant, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], ego bosting, lame, useless post I have seen on this thread in a long long time. I'm not even going to bother to spend any time dissecting your "post" and flaming the hell out of you for it, because just by posting you show what a POS you are.</p><p>Thx KK c u n g4m3 guy.</p><hr></blockquote>While it's ok to discuss the topic at hand please folks try to avoid flames and insults.Please keep the posts within the <a target="_blank" href="message?board.id=faq&message.id=25"><font color="#ffff99"><b>Forum Rules of Conduct.</b></font></a>Thanks!</div>

[ElanieGi]

<blockquote><hr>JackAll wrote:<div></div> <p><span>I must admit I find this thread insanely funny.</span></p> <p><span>You got all these new holier than thou coercers that say they have all this crazy skill.</span></p> <p><span>Yet they can’t solo.</span></p> <p><span>And what’s even better.</span></p> <p><span>They think enchanters are for CC. LOL</span></p> <p><span>Ok, I’m done <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></p> <p><span>Seriously though, CC plays an extremely small role in EQ2 and you will find as you get up in level that if you don’t do your share of dps you are not welcome. <span> </span>You just can’t park your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in a corner and announce that you are CC so you don’t care what your dps is.</span></p> <p><span><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3"></font></span> </p> <p>Message Edited by JackAll on <span class="date_text">06-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:45 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by JackAll on <span class="date_text">06-16-2006</span> <span class="time_text">12:45 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I don't think there's a single person here who's saying ALL they do is CC. They say its an integral part of being a chanter, but not the ONLY part. The whole reason I picked coercer over illusionist is that I didn't JUST want to be a CC bot. I also wanted to be able to charm big baddies and sic em on my mobs. But I know when it comes down to it, sometimes ya gotta sacrifice the pet for the groups best interest. Just hopefully thats not very often <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Soldancer]

-<p>Message Edited by Soldancer on <span class=date_text>08-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:19 PM</span>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Canniabas here is some targeting 101 for n00bs who did not played enchanters back in EQ1 </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rule 1: Use THIRD person view FROM THE TOP ... In order to do this programm 1 of your mouse buttoms to scroll view in and out (best do it with browing mouse weel buttom)</DIV> <DIV>Rule 2: In fast and brutal combat use fact that Sonic Boom is TRUE PBAE and if you have trouble in fast picking target start CC action from PBAE stun everything around you. Unless you really clumsy 5 second is more then enouth to take situation undercontrol. Now you got even peg-leg Confoudment with is AoE Stun</DIV> <DIV>Rule 3: If you still have problem use AoE  Daze from some distance - AI of mobs so dumb that NPC wont use on you CA/Spell on the move</DIV> <DIV>Rule 4 Do not hesistate use AoE mez via targeting your MT by doing so you succefully will cut off adds within encounter (an example of usefull application for that would be fighting Doom Guards in HoF then you might want to fast mez 2 infiltrators that accompany</DIV> <DIV>Rule 5 Root is your best friend - fast casting long lasting hard breaking. On IMPACT our root cast Daze which give you EITHER second to do what ever you want with mob you just have rooted</DIV> <DIV>If you have problem with interuption or/and speed casting - do FULL spec into AGI - Casting Beholder Eye trigger immideatly Perpentuality 5 use it in conjuction with chromosiphoning to make all you stuns casting time 1-1.2s and mezes 0.5s</DIV><p>Message Edited by Tanatus on <span class=date_text>06-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:09 PM</span>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<P>Just so folks know... the only thing that changed with Charms resistability, is the 3s stun it had on break.</P> <P>Take a look at the description... the lvl resists note is ONLY under the clause when it breaks and gets stunned. No where else.</P> <P> </P> <P>Put it into practice.. I had my M1 Beguile land fine on a lvl 67 ravasect and he nuked just as hard as he did pre-patch, and it lasted 90% of the duration too. And I'm only lvl 63!</P> <P>Sure when it wore off, it didn't get mez'd at all... but I usually eat at least one hit before getting control in on early breaks, regardless of the mez.</P> <P>I've been using low level Master charm perfectly fine for damage. No problems here.</P>

[Sir Blig]

<DIV>So back to the op's point, should the killed charmed things give XP or is it an exploit,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>in's and outs of getting xp</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Xp is given as a reward for doing something, be it a quest, overcoming a foe, or some other task and NPC wants done (like collectables)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So the coercer is the master of domination, how they choose to kill there prey is up to them, if they dominate the mind and force the foe into death by attacking others why should they not get a reward? After all they have used a class defining skill to overcome their foe.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If they are saying that using the tools available to you should not give the reward of XP why do they still give update rewards?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe if the system was not lacking in other areas this would have not even been looked at, lets say like if death had a big sting then this kind of thing would be very risky ie risk v reward or a royal pain, say if you die twice in a row with no armor you are ported to a far away safe location and have to run back home or call<BR></DIV>

[Roriondesexiest]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sir Blight wrote:<BR> <DIV>So back to the op's point, should the killed charmed things give XP or is it an exploit,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>in's and outs of getting xp</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Xp is given as a reward for doing something, be it a quest, overcoming a foe, or some other task and NPC wants done (like collectables)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So the coercer is the master of domination, how they choose to kill there prey is up to them, if they dominate the mind and force the foe into death by attacking others why should they not get a reward? After all they have used a class defining skill to overcome their foe.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If they are saying that using the tools available to you should not give the reward of XP why do they still give update rewards?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe if the system was not lacking in other areas this would have not even been looked at, lets say like if death had a big sting then this kind of thing would be very risky ie risk v reward or a royal pain, say if you die twice in a row with no armor you are ported to a far away safe location and have to run back home or call<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I think that it was a bug/exploit, and glad they fixed it, just one of those things when everyone else finds out about it they scream nerf.<BR>

[Sir Blig]

<DIV>Can you fill in on the thoughts that led you to that?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Reason being,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Party A wanders over sees two mobs, and kills then both</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Party B wanders over sees two mobs, charms one and makes it attack the other, charmed dies and then B dispatches the 2nd </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Both parties dispatched both mobs yet party A will get twice the XP is that fair since part of what party B is about is charming and what better than to get your enemies to fight amongst themselves?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please support your views<BR></DIV>

[Varg_MM]

It was an exploit because you got xp for not being able to keep your charmed pet alive.No rewards for sucking.

[HouseMi]

<div><blockquote><hr>Varg_MM wrote:It was an exploit because you got xp for not being able to keep your charmed pet alive.No rewards for sucking.<hr></blockquote>[Removed for Content] <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span></div>

[Sir Blig]

<DIV>"It was an exploit because you got xp for not being able to keep your charmed pet alive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No rewards for sucking."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sry no dice</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No mater the state it was in, it was still YOUR enemy and you killed it or got it killed by direct actions, either way you view it you found a way to over come it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>An exploit/bug would have been if when a conjurer's pet died he got xp since their spell creates something out of nothing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>By your actions you facilitated the enemy's death.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For getting rid of your enemies you should get xp.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wana try again? <BR></DIV>

[ElanieGi]

I love people who rationalize such an obvious exploit. <div></div>

[Sir Blig]

<P>Hehe like I love people who scream exploit just because they don’t like it and can’t give a sound justified explanation on why.</P> <P> </P> <P>Battle tactics 101, ways of getting rid of your enemy,</P> <P> </P> <P>I am pretty sure what is being talked falls under that and hey getting rid of your enemy should give xp.</P> <P> </P> <P>like it or not</P>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<DIV>All an exploit is, is using an unintended (by game developpers) tactic to it's fullest effect. Basically, finding a loophole and [Removed for Content] it as hard as you can.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With the xp thing, I could solo yellow heroic encounters as quickly, and possibly more safely than a full group could. One coercer vs a full, balanced group. They did not intend this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Basically, the "risk vs reward" factor isn't balanced with what they intended with this game, so it this tactic was canned.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Exploiting this tactic, would be to use it to clear Breeding Grounds, solo, faster than a full group, and get a level in less than an hour out of it. Or getting your scrollbearer update for Hoo'loh by yourself because he can be charmed... even with it being 5 levels higher than you. Full groups can have trouble with him, and you can walk up, charm, and let him die.. bam, update!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They didn't take this out because people were getting xp from fighting two mobs and using charm to eliminate one. I'm sure they probably wouldn't even have a problem with that, if that's all that happened.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The reason they got rid of it though is because Coercers could basically solo anything they could charm, simply by letting it die. The only "difficulty" factor was getting charm to land.. once you had that, it's a sealed deal, and you could basically stroll through content that would normally take anyone else a full group to accomplish. And constantly, with no downtime... it costs little power to charm something, have it hit another mob once, tell it to stop, then let it die... and then root + charm, and voila, on to the next.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'd love to hear "justified explanation" on letting a Coercer solo higher level heroic content faster than a full group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Think of it this way... if it's as easy to kill this yellow heroic content as it is to kill greys, then you should get the xp that you would for killing greys. None.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Raidi Sovin'faile on <span class=date_text>06-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:22 AM</span>

[Maelstroom]

<DIV>I so agree with you Sir Blight! You dont stand alone.</DIV>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Buttom line lol exploiters crying river rest of coercers don't give a danm about it</DIV>

[Chrysostom]

I understand people using this previous "feature" of charm for the couple of months it was in place. (death of pet not adding to encounter limit made this feasable).  Was it a bug? perhaps... but truth be told I think it was not so much a bug as was incomplete loot code.Was it an exploit? Perhaps... but sony knew full well the ramifications of removing the encounter limit from charm without patching the code.  Never once did sony come out and say 'hey! thats not allowed!'.  Standard line from sony about exploits is that the mob has to be able to hit you if it wants to. (ie. you are top of its agro list and it does not have a ligit control effect.) This basic guide to expliots was certainly not violated.All that said... I AM SO FRICKEN HAPPY ITS GONE!!! lol.  Get over it. It was obvioulsy NOT intended. If you became a coercer for this reason alone then please find a different FOTM class.<div></div>

[RedFeather]

I'm a new coercer player, and I'm just wondering what this means.Does it mean that if my charmed monster breaks in a fight and I kill it I won't get exp for it?<div></div>

[Alaeth]

No, it means if your pet dies while charmed, you won't get experience for it. Previously, you would get experience for your pet dying if you had done damage to it before charming it.

[RedFeather]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Alaeth wrote:No, it means if your pet dies while charmed, you won't get experience for it. Previously, you would get experience for your pet dying if you had done damage to it before charming it.<hr></blockquote>Oh, thank-you. I'm still new and am trying to fight groups by charming one to kill the others, and I was so worried that it was a bad way to solo.</div><p>Message Edited by RedFeather1975 on <span class=date_text>06-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:21 AM</span>

[Nuhus]

Heh, no wonder why I saw a Coercer in EF chain killing heroics. Heh, don't notice that crap with XP disabled.

[xenocyst]

If you're upset that a beneficial bug was fixed to the point that you don't want to play anymore <u><b>please reroll in some other game.</b></u> I don't judge people who take advantage of bugs like that (and there have been many) because that's SOE's job. However, when they get fixed I am always glad because that means that it was not working as intended (which I suspected) and it has been addressed now. To come to the boards and complain that something which was extremely unbalanced and <b>not </b>working as intended has been fixed is just plain uneducated. The health of the class is probably significantly worse because so many people were able to roll alts and power level them using this bug. (Yes I did it a bit too, felt guilty for every kill, glad I no longer have that option so I'm not tempted to use it.)<div></div>

[sholmes983]

<div><blockquote><hr>Tanatus wrote:<div></div><p>d) Removing exp gain from pet death is A GOOD thing - that was an exploit and everyone who used that are exploiters. Heck personally I used that "game option" for only 1 things - getting update for some quests ... Believe you or not but but killing SOLO ~100 Scaleborn warriors in SoS in order to get update for Blood of the Brood aren't my conception of fun</p><hr></blockquote>Not trying to flame or anything, but I'm curious if you really think that makes you any less of an exploiter than anyone else that used it?</div>

[ootpek]

Thats just the flexibility of the enchanter coming out.  I can go from total offensive DPS machine to completely defensive save the groups bacon in the blink of an eye.  Some people only like to be offensive (Double entendre? haha) and some people play the defensive roll.  Just two sides to the same class is all.  In any given situation either playstyle might be more fit...so play wisely.  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[nscragg]

<P>Boooo! Your exploit got fixed so now you're betraying?  =)  Don't let the door hit you on the way out.</P> <P> </P>

[Ether]

<P>Charmed mobs that are even or 1 arrow up still give you experience if you dismiss it and kill it. So its still viable to charm something have it attack something until it has a sliver of life and then take it out.</P> <P> </P> <P>Appears the only change is for the double up and triple up stuff...</P>

[Venzule]

<DIV>I just started a Coerer and im not following the exploit...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If a charmed mob died you would get XP for it when it died while still under your control?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If thats the case thank god they fixed it... thats lame.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But what about sending in a charmed pet and having a uncharmed mob beat it down until its almost dead and releasing it and then killing it?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thats a fair tactic and without it the solo power of the Corcer would be really bad.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<P>That tactic still works, however keep in mind anything above no-arrow will be nerfed down in health... and when the charm is off, they are un-nerfed... meaning the health they lost will be equal, but they'll get all the HP they didn't have while charmed back.</P> <P>So when charming double and triple ups, you can't let it get beat down to a sliver, uncharm, and still expect it to be at a sliver of health. It's more like 60% or even higher in health on the triple ups.</P> <P> </P> <P>It's still a nice way of safely getting a massive chunk of hp gone from an encounter.. however it's not going to be very simple to kill it either.</P> <P>No.. the way we solo heroics is dependant on the pet we can charm, and our ability to control the encounter.</P>