Coercer Raiding

[Andu]

<DIV> <P><SPAN>I’ve recently switched my Coercer to be being my main character and whilst I am an experienced raider I am a complete noob when it comes to raiding as a Coercer. </SPAN><SPAN>I’ve scoured this board for information but much of it is conflicting or just plain argumentative and it’s left me a little confused as to what I should and should not be doing.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>So I was wondering if we could get back to basics. Can someone offer some solid advice on what I need to be looking out for during a typical raid, without the usual mana battery type response <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Is it possible to overagro, given our low DPS? What buffs would you usually set-up? Are there any current zones where charm is useful and is not going to be seen as a waste of time and a liability by the rest of the raid.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Some advice on amnesia would also be welcome as it seems a useful tool but one that could easily create a raid wipe if not done correctly.</SPAN></P></DIV>

[ProphecyCT]

<div><blockquote><hr>Anduri wrote:<div></div> <div> <p><span>I’ve recently switched my Coercer to be being my main character and whilst I am an experienced raider I am a complete noob when it comes to raiding as a Coercer. </span><span>I’ve scoured this board for information but much of it is conflicting or just plain argumentative and it’s left me a little confused as to what I should and should not be doing.</span></p> <p><span>So I was wondering if we could get back to basics. Can someone offer some solid advice on what I need to be looking out for during a typical raid, without the usual mana battery type response <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></p> <p><span>Is it possible to overagro, given our low DPS? What buffs would you usually set-up? Are there any current zones where charm is useful and is not going to be seen as a waste of time and a liability by the rest of the raid.</span></p> <p><span>Some advice on amnesia would also be welcome as it seems a useful tool but one that could easily create a raid wipe if not done correctly.</span></p></div><hr></blockquote>This is just from my experience, but here i go =P.In the typical raid, Coercers are ususally the choice for a spot in the MT group for extra power regen and the hate / dps buff.  The amount of thimes charm is useful, especially in the MT group, is extreamly low due to the 3 concentration slots required to maintain it.  So most likely, unless circumstances changes, you won't be using charm or possession on a raid, because of the 3 concentration slots and most of the mobs are uncharmable =P.Is it possible to overaggro?  Depends.  I'd say without a proper deagro,  I can pull aggro on certain encounters despite hte fact that I do 1/2 - 1/3 of the top dps on the raid.  Also, this is just from observation, but since Coercer spells are "reactive" types of damages, they tend pull aggro on mem wipe types of mobs, but that's just from my experience.As for amnesia, it is a very useful tool (wish it wasn't resistable, but it is =P).  It's a handy tool for saving raids and such, but also useful for resetting aggro on mem wipe mobs, the Princes encounter, or splitting mobs up.</div>

[Chrysostom]

Well, you might not want the mana battery response... but the simple truth it that IS your main job.  If you don't want to hear that, then perhaps Coercers are not your thing.  Many or most raid zones charm is not an option because the creatures are simply uncharmable.  There are a very few times were it can beu useful, such as some fights in lycium, to minimize damage to the MT if he/she does not have the proper gear.  But once your MT is geared up, it more a liability to charm. Amnesia is useful to prevent a wipe IF you have a very organized raid force that cancels ALL dps and dots. The coercer then casts amnesia and dies, and the Mob will reset. As for buff, Well, just put up all your buffs and put DPS on the melee in your group. That sounds simple... but it really all there is to it.   Only eexception is hate buff, that ussually only get used in the MT group. <div></div>

[Chrysostom]

As far as using amnesia on mem-wiping raid mobs... thats ussually a VERY bad idea.  Although using amnesia to help split an encounter is sometimes  (Very rarely) useful.  The only real use for amnesia is so that a Coercer can eat a death so the raid will not completely wipe, however you have to have a well organized raid for that to work.<div></div>

[Tanatus]

<P>Its depends</P> <P>As Xelus mentioned it is most likely you will always have reservation in MT group. Hate is most priced buff everyone want from you, then crack give or take but with 3 crack masters I can pull 42+41+15 power/tic, toss here manacloack, toss here channel.. Damage shield is less important but damage from it adds up if you place it on MT (~383-424 damage per hit tank take at M1 Harmonious Link). In MT group I generally dont use DPS buff or Mental resist mitingation buff IF I have chance to charm - some places REQUIED charming if your guild is casual rading guild. Also due to nature of my specialization I have +14% to critical heals (always wellcome for MT group) and I can instantly de-agro shaman or cleric on serious pull with touch of emphaty. Also with same ToE my pets never a problem in terms of agro stealing (I de-agro pet on raids as soon as ToE pop)</P> <P>In the light of upcoming LU24 I intend to keep my AGI line as well - perpentuality allow me basically run most of the time at 33% of normal casting time on all my spells. Bear in mind that choosing Int line will allow you push your petless DPS a bit up but if you reside in MT group it is not what from your expected</P> <P>Basic setup of buffs </P> <P>a) no charmable targets: Hate/Dmg Sheild/DPS on MT, DPS on knight, Mana/Int/2 cracks/Aura of Empathy group wide, ToE on shaman on pull and on cleric if tank start take heavy beating</P> <P>b) I have charmed pet - Hate/Dmg Sheild on MT, group wide same buffs except Mana , ToE on pet</P>

[Andu]

<blockquote><hr>Chrysostom wrote:Well, you might not want the mana battery response... but the simple truth it that IS your main job.  If you don't want to hear that, then perhaps Coercers are not your thing. <div></div><hr></blockquote>I didn't mean I don't want to do it, I just meant it's obvious so need need to say it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Jerdan]

<DIV>1) As the only raiding coercer in my guild, I am almost always in the MT group. +49% hate, +65% DPS for MT and bard in group, Harmonious link, +13.9% increase chance for healers to crit heal, Perpetuality, and roughly 60 in-combat mana regen plus mana font (or whatever it is) is really good from what I hear. MT never looses agro with me and bard in group (unless mob has a mem wipe), healers are crit healing every 3rd cast, and I can cast all dolls in like 5 sec, its crazy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) Only time I, or any other members of my guild, have found charm useful is in Lyceum, with the Eye and the guy that has the 4 adds (I'm horrible with names). For the eye, I charm one add and then mez the rest for some pretty good dps. For the other guy across the hall, the troub, 2 necros and I charm a  mob each after I group mez, send in to attack, and while adding dps, the main guy kills the adds with the ae has. Its pretty effective.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3) Over agro? Only time I got agro was in Lab, and thats cause I was first in zone. I spent alot of time that night staring at the wall.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4) Amnesia + dead Coercer = the win on Vyemm. Period.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm kinda waiting to see what happens with LU24, but it should add some different components to raiding that they took away a long time ago. Should be fun, but we shall see.</DIV>

[Andu]

Thanks guys (especially Jerdanis - thats some nice info), keep it coming. I bet Im not the only one learning here. <div></div>

[Mage-Apprentice]

<P>There are more than 1 role for a coercer to play on raids.</P> <P>MT-group, hate+dps on mt with all of you group buffs on, the crit heal AA is adviced highly, meaby also that wis/resists aa to help surving aoe's, last conc slot for any other class that melee's (summoner pet/dirge/2nd (buff)tank.</P> <P>OT-group same as above, but only use hate when needed, this group may have 3 melee classes so you can use all conc-slots, drop agi-buff for hate when needed. (otherwise keep the conc-slot open)</P> <P>non-tank group, best is with 3high dps melee classes, that uses auto-atack, tripple dps buff and use groupbuffs, drop a groupbuff for each other dps buff</P> <P>mage-group, worst group imho, but you can dps buff summoners pets, and keep up the group buffs.</P> <P>For all groups you can place the ***** link spell on mt.</P> <P> </P> <P>If you raid allows you to use charm on raids (may be harder to control with all the resist buffs up, and mezz-imune= act very fast or someone is death), you can drop some buffs, hate is a must to keep, and tbh haste on MT as well (if berserker).</P> <P>Seeing that not many guilds see coercers as dps (charm), but more like buffers, who can do some modarate raw dps.</P> <P>I never use charm (for one we have plenty of dps, and two I don't have/feel to use it on raids), but use all my reactives (*** mind excluded), because these alone make most of my damage, other nukes even that are pitfull is still used (hate twimbling my thumbs).</P> <P> </P> <P>Hope this is enough information for you.</P> <P>ps didn't read all replies, sorry if this has been said already.</P> <P>edit (answer on other questions)</P> <P>If hate is build up properly and if there is no mem-wiping mobs, you can't draw agro at all (if you can you must have a bad mt-setup)</P> <P>only in the first few sec of a fight/memwipe it is possible to some extend to draw agro. (ea using aoe before assist is called)</P> <P>amnesia has limited use, some encounters will have increased use of it to beat it, while single target encounters can be reset when the raid wipes, if evry person in raid stops agro, will die (while others not)</P><p>Message Edited by Mage-Apprentice on <span class=date_text>05-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:13 PM</span>

[Aranieq]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Anduri wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P><SPAN>I’ve recently switched my Coercer to be being my main character and whilst I am an experienced raider I am a complete noob when it comes to raiding as a Coercer. </SPAN><SPAN><FONT color=#ff0000><STRONG>I’ve scoured this board for information but much of it is conflicting or just plain argumentative and it’s left me a little confused as to what I should and should not be doing.</STRONG></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>So I was wondering if we could get back to basics. Can someone offer some solid advice on what I need to be looking out for during a typical raid, without the usual mana battery type response <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Is it possible to overagro, given our low DPS? What buffs would you usually set-up? Are there any current zones where charm is useful and is not going to be seen as a waste of time and a liability by the rest of the raid.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Some advice on amnesia would also be welcome as it seems a useful tool but one that could easily create a raid wipe if not done correctly.</SPAN></P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>hehe I just got the best chuckle from that observation... my advice is if you plan to stick with a coercer you get used to living and loving that very acute observation.  Allthough many very adept and skilled coercers here very seldom do they all or even a soli majority agree on our best role spell line up dps ability focus ect...</P> <P>so following suit IMO:</P> <P>we are incredibly versitile and fill the roles of power management, dps, controll, hate controll, and of course melee dps boost. yes charm is amazing and wonderful an in some cases can make a major differnce in a raid but it is not the norm and so seldom used on raids it is not worth making considerations as a steady form of dp ect..</P> <P>amnesia is a great spell and used often and is key to some encounters.  </P> <P>dps- if you are parsing top of the dps you should be looking for a higher lvl guild imo.  when playing with matched toons of equal gear spells and abilities you should be parsing (epending on aa lines and role you play) from just above the healers to the tanks levels.  on an ae pull you can have a far advantage on some of the other mages and assassins ect but its situational. I aim for a 500-600dps as a solid encounter, with 600-800dps on an exceptional, and an happy with that when the top dps is 1k=1500 average.  If dps is your focus use all of you coercer wiles to max that we have plenty of tools not openly visible.  a STA line coercer will average closer to 300-400 dps(of the same caliber) as their focus is agro and heals managment rather than dps.  Most guilds have 1 coercer and that would generally be the choice for the 1st coercer.</P> <P>hate buffing... only thing not straight forward is when there are players with hate dumps ie assasins dirges and amends type tanks.  Just get involved in learning how other players transfer hate to determine the best way to buff yours.</P> <P>dps buffs .. i never waste a conc slot if its a mage getting it then so be it...  dont forget pets are people too~ (not really they are [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] but they still mele) brawlers, rangers, assassins in that order of priority unless its the MT group.  Because of their autoattack dps.  brawlers have the most dps from autoattack, (as aposed to CA with the dps buff does nothing for).  </P> <P>power management... take time to read the bard boards and illy to learn their abilities ... so you don't automatically assume you are best for the position because of power alone.  get channel upgraded.  get all of your in combat power regens upgraded as well, including the 2 DoT/regens.  manacloak is common knowledge but still get it to ad3 its as high as it goes.</P> <P>Upgrade order (as raider) - power-hate buff-debuffs(psyche and breakdown)-dps(reactives and sonic)-group buffs-link(hits for 539 atM1-full int ect)-dps buff-the rest</P> <P>get int maxed then work on hp or resist depening your preference. I prefer to have the hp to withstand the first wave rather than try to resist it.. aim to keep int between 500 and 510 when making resist gear choices.  aim for 4k+ resist in regular gear and 6k-7k+ on specific set of resist.  if you die whatever pet u had is loose whatever mezz uhad is loose whatever reason they had u in MT group is wasted... so potions gear research is important to know how to manage the gear to stay in the game as long as you can.  Can't fall into that well mages just die because they are paper thin.  </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>and sorry for the edit i cant type QQ</P><p>Message Edited by Aranieq on <span class=date_text>05-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:05 PM</span>

[Aranieq]

<P>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] boards QQ</P><p>Message Edited by Aranieq on <span class=date_text>05-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:30 AM</span>

[Apathyloves]

Just started raiding.  I feel like a double n00b.  Raiding n00b, and high level coercer n00b. Thanks for the info guys.  nektulos.willbender ******** FIX THE [Removed for Content] nektulos.coercer channel ******** <div></div>

[Mindtric]

<P>I agree with everything I have read so far, but i would like to offer a few "tricks" not mentioned.</P> <P>In regards to amnesia, I usually blur if (in order of precidence):</P> <P>1) a MT goes down and the OT wasnt able to grab hate (sometimes this is bad if they burned rescue already, but 90% of the time its good because the raid is trained to slow a down sec til the mobs turns around again onto a tank)</P> <P>2) a very important class pulled agro either from a mem wipe CA or just flat out stole agro and is about to die. most classes can take 1 round of auto attacks so you have about 2seconds to decide if you will blur. the most important classes imo (in order) are:</P> <P>any shammen, if they die the mob looses debuffs</P> <P>brigand, again we loose a dispatch</P> <P>anyone in the MT group, because theyre buffs are most needed</P> <P>You may, or may not, want to make a macro to tell the raid you just blured. I didnt at first because I was still learning when to use it and sometimes it was bad hehe</P> <P> </P> <P>another "trick" I have up my sleeve is, if im in the MT group and its a long fight, I will use Manacloak early and conserve some power. Then as someone in the group approaches empty i will use mana font (dracomancers mitts) and all my power regen stuff (manastone, transfer essence and such) and as soon as manafont ends i will channel power back to the group. usually MT and I are near full while the rest of the group is low. Also cast gorging thoughts every time it pops because its mana/sec and stuff like this is the best mana regen because its not effected by the natural power regen cap (105 for FT and crack combined)</P> <P> </P> <P>I usually dont charm on a raid unless its lyceum because those pets are nice enough dps to be worth the risk but make sure your OT is working with you when it breaks. If i charm i put on all my subjectation gear and it seems to make pets break less often unexpectedly</P> <P>As for AAs I find the MT healers dont usually need crit heals 90% of the time because our tank has 6k mit self buffed but it may be differnt for you. Im speced all out dps by way of agi 45441 and int 8448 to give 14% crit (20 with potion and mark)   I use all the spell proc items i can get as well, try not to recast auspex until it has used all of its procs, if its not procing alot try putting it on 2 epics if the situation applies. I can usually maintain about 800 dps with this setup and even thought its not enough to make top 10 usually, its still helping burn down the mobs faster so they cast less aoes. I did experiment with using blur to see it would reset the aoe timer but alas it doesnt help.</P><p>Message Edited by Mindtricks on <span class=date_text>05-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:40 AM</span>

[Aranieq]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mindtricks wrote:<BR> <P>I agree with everything I have read so far, but i would like to offer a few "tricks" not mentioned.</P> <P>In regards to amnesia, I usually blur if (in order of precidence):</P> <P>1) a MT goes down and the OT wasnt able to grab hate (sometimes this is bad if they burned rescue already, but 90% of the time its good because the raid is trained to slow a down sec til the mobs turns around again onto a tank)</P> <P>2) a very important class pulled agro either from a mem wipe CA or just flat out stole agro and is about to die. most classes can take 1 round of auto attacks so you have about 2seconds to decide if you will blur. the most important classes imo (in order) are:</P> <P>any shammen, if they die the mob looses debuffs</P> <P>brigand, again we loose a dispatch</P> <P>anyone in the MT group, because theyre buffs are most needed</P> <P>You may, or may not, want to make a macro to tell the raid you just blured. I didnt at first because I was still learning when to use it and sometimes it was bad hehe</P> <P> </P> <P>another "trick" I have up my sleeve is, if im in the MT group and its a long fight, I will use Manacloak early and conserve some power. Then as someone in the group approaches empty i will use mana font (dracomancers mitts) and all my power regen stuff (manastone, transfer essence and such) and as soon as manafont ends i will channel power back to the group. usually MT and I are near full while the rest of the group is low. Also cast gorging thoughts every time it pops because its mana/sec and stuff like this is the best mana regen because its not effected by the natural power regen cap (105 for FT and crack combined)</P> <P> </P> <P>I usually dont charm on a raid unless its lyceum because those pets are nice enough dps to be worth the risk but make sure your OT is working with you when it breaks. If i charm i put on all my subjectation gear and it seems to make pets break less often unexpectedly</P> <P>As for AAs I find the MT healers dont usually need crit heals 90% of the time because our tank has 6k mit self buffed but it may be differnt for you. Im speced all out dps by way of agi 45441 and int 8448 to give 14% crit (20 with potion and mark)   I use all the spell proc items i can get as well, try not to recast auspex until it has used all of its procs, if its not procing alot try putting it on 2 epics if the situation applies. I can usually maintain about 800 dps with this setup and even thought its not enough to make top 10 usually, its still helping burn down the mobs faster so they cast less aoes. I did experiment with using blur to see it would reset the aoe timer but alas it does help.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>for amnesia... I personally wont amnesia because someones pulled agro.  Thats what have the SK for.  He can drop em and not reset tanks agro build up.  If someone even key pulls agro during the fight its better to let the tank get it back or rez the player than reset the hate list.  if you wipe it not only is there a good chance they just lost a coercer but the tank must start from spot 1 on the hate list and compete against all the dps allready in full dps mode. Also you risk resetting the encounter.  But I have used amnesia to pull a mob back to a rooted tank in some special encounters, very specific.  </P> <P>out of curiosity those of you who have master amnesia I'm curious what you have paid / would pay for it?</P>

[Tanatus]

<P>M1 Amnesia on Nektulos going price 2-5pp ... imo not worth that much</P> <P>I agree thou - there is ZERO need in using Amesia if someone pulled agro - all you need to do cast on that person ToE! - thats how I save lives shamans on hard pulls .. TOE all the way</P>

[Cylence]

<P>Master Amnesia = I paid 2 plat for it.  I'd pay 10 plat for it now.  Maybe 15.  If I couldn't sweet talk them down.</P> <P>I have to disagree with the comment that we should parse 300-400 with the Stamina line.  I know, on Kwiet, I took the stamina line, and don't have my agility line filled out (7 more aas to go for perpetuatlity), and I average 600-700.  On a really really good night (aka, last night for example), I can parse 2000.  On a normal, paying attention, no chatting in tells, I'll nail 900 on a single mob, and on a group encounter, if I'm below 1100, I know I'm slacking (or my reactives weren't firing!!).  But people let us, because they think we don't have the dps in our class.  I think Coercers are fabulous dps- if you are paying attention to what you're doing and making sure that your spell reactives are up.  There is nothing for me like seeing a cloud of orange numbers above a mob's head.</P> <P>Now.  My guild has 2 coercers.  We flip who goes into the main tank group, as we both have our stamina lines maxed.  Nothing like 14% heal crits and 57% hate gain.  But, when I'm really really good, and get to play, I get to put my 74% dps on the melee dps class.  I like both roles.  Do I feel a little more useful in the mt group?  Absolutely.  That's what I've had in my head as my job.  But to be able to go all out and dps and not worry about channeling and mana cloaking as much is very soothing sometimes.  If only swashbucklers weren't mana hogs...</P> <P>I always drop Gorging thoughts, transfer essense, mana stone, mana font, and my dracomancer before I channel, btw.  And sometimes even a clarity potion.  Grandmaster's Essence of Clarity *nods*.  It's nice to max out your power...Gorging thoughts is our hidden spell...I truly believe that.  I'm amazed at how much better most of my debuffs and spells land with it on mobs.  Dropping their intel also seems to drop crits.</P> <P>On Amnesia.  Vyemm is a pansy with it.  We all know this.  They made that mob for us.</P> <P>What do I consider my job on a raid?  Overall?</P> <P>To make you, at least once during the raid, stare at the parse and be like</P> <P>...but....dps....is....not...your....job...[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]?!</P> <P>Because we can do it all<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Aranieq]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cylence wrote:<BR> <P>Master Amnesia = I paid 2 plat for it.  I'd pay 10 plat for it now.  Maybe 15.  If I couldn't sweet talk them down.</P> <P>I have to disagree with the comment that we should parse 300-400 with the Stamina line.  I know, on Kwiet, I took the stamina line, and don't have my agility line filled out (7 more aas to go for perpetuatlity), and I average 600-700.  On a really really good night (aka, last night for example), I can parse 2000.  On a normal, paying attention, no chatting in tells, I'll nail 900 on a single mob, and on a group encounter, if I'm below 1100, I know I'm slacking (or my reactives weren't firing!!).  But people let us, because they think we don't have the dps in our class.  I think Coercers are fabulous dps- if you are paying attention to what you're doing and making sure that your spell reactives are up.  There is nothing for me like seeing a cloud of orange numbers above a mob's head.</P> <P>Now.  My guild has 2 coercers.  We flip who goes into the main tank group, as we both have our stamina lines maxed.  Nothing like 14% heal crits and 57% hate gain.  But, when I'm really really good, and get to play, I get to put my 74% dps on the melee dps class.  I like both roles.  Do I feel a little more useful in the mt group?  Absolutely.  That's what I've had in my head as my job.  But to be able to go all out and dps and not worry about channeling and mana cloaking as much is very soothing sometimes.  If only swashbucklers weren't mana hogs...</P> <P>I always drop Gorging thoughts, transfer essense, mana stone, mana font, and my dracomancer before I channel, btw.  And sometimes even a clarity potion.  Grandmaster's Essence of Clarity *nods*.  It's nice to max out your power...Gorging thoughts is our hidden spell...I truly believe that.  I'm amazed at how much better most of my debuffs and spells land with it on mobs.  Dropping their intel also seems to drop crits.</P> <P>On Amnesia.  Vyemm is a pansy with it.  We all know this.  They made that mob for us.</P> <P>What do I consider my job on a raid?  Overall?</P> <P>To make you, at least once during the raid, stare at the parse and be like</P> <P>...but....dps....is....not...your....job...[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]?!</P> <P>Because we can do it all<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>On Amnesia.  Vyemm is a pansy with it.  We all know this.  They made that mob for us.</FONT> </STRONG></P> <P>no they didn't and they have been doing everything to make it harder and harder to split.  Dev's have even said it's not meant to be split or at least killed in the order prefered my most raids.</P> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>I have to disagree with the comment that we should parse 300-400 with the Stamina line.  I know, on Kwiet, I took the stamina line, and don't have my agility line filled out (7 more aas to go for perpetuatlity), and I average 600-700.  On a really really good night (aka, last night for example),<FONT color=#ff0000> I can parse 2000</FONT>.  On a normal, paying attention, no chatting in tells, I'll nail 900 on a single mob, and on a group encounter, if I'm below 1100, I know I'm slacking (or my reactives weren't firing!!).  But people let us, because they think we don't have the dps in our class.</FONT> </STRONG></P> <P>I have a hard time believing a single mob with a fully complimentted raid can yeild a coercer 900 dps <FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>on average</STRONG></FONT> (no pet), especially a STA coercer.  Assuming you have full master and plenty of proc damage. the speed a single mob has to die to get 900dps for a coercer is something impressive.  If your telling me you top parser is around 3k and the mob dies fast enough for the tank to not get it yanked from him then maybee.  I can parse 1.5k in the ae pull in hof in a group setting that is what 10-15 mobs alive long enough for 1 sonic boom 2 if there is no warlock or conj in group.  there is a major difference between extDPS and DPS. If you are showing only the personal dps then anyone can parse rediculous numbers because it starts and stops the clock for your casts alone.  </P> <P>Now I'm not saying that I have the best parse by far but I have 70% master and all ad3+ and int is allways maxed with my 30% damage bonus and my 12% crit bonus along with my 500 per hit melee I average 600 dps, with our top dps being in the 1k-1.4k range (average).    Our STA coercer has full masters and is exceptionally geared and acheives and average of 400 dps.  once you max int and master and have the same debuff components as a full class raid there isnt a lot of room for variance.  at max int and full debuff reactives still hit the same sonic still hits the same and without a damage bonus or crit bonus or spell haste bonus I'd love to see where this novel dps is coming from.   Claims that as a utility coercer (STA) can reach dps greater or equal to warlocks and wizards let alone sumoners including their pets, in top geared guilds are what gets us a red flag.</P>

[Tanatus]

<P>Kinda dump question folks</P> <P>How you handle Alzid Uncaged (sp) in  Lord Viemm Lab? </P> <P>Blobs are charmable and mezable but they also die fast. I cannt form definite opition what to do best. Charm DO prevent split but pet DPS less then laughable (melee damage around 300-350 a pop with no brigand)</P>

[Aranieq]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <P>Kinda dump question folks</P> <P>How you handle Alzid Uncaged (sp) in  Lord Viemm Lab? </P> <P>Blobs are charmable and mezable but they also die fast. I cannt form definite opition what to do best. Charm DO prevent split but pet DPS less then laughable (melee damage around 300-350 a pop with no brigand)</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>with dps assist MA switching to blobs they die fast enough.  Never had an issue with them really.<BR></P>

[Cylence]

<DIV>I think the devs forget that we can mem wipe.  When I call Vyemm our mob, I mean that it showcases how very very diverse we are.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok, parsing.  I'm full master 57+.  I'm only missing domination.  And only because I bowed it out to the other coercer I played with.  Spell procs, 2-4, depending on gear.  And I actually parse better in *longer* fights.  More time for my reactives to proc.  Shorter fights I don't look nearly as good in because it's not enough time for Auspex/Spell Scourge/Cataclysmic Mind to fire.  I went fully down the agi line, Stamina line I didn't take the charm, but am fully down it.  I can't touch our wizzies, swashbucklers, and assassin's averages.  And a necro?  Please.  I don't even compare.  Trust me, I wish I could~  but dps is NOT why I play my coercer.  And if i'm watching power on the raid a little more closely because there are only 2 chanters, then my dps is going to drop to average 700.  Which if you read- That's what I average.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Of course my parse is going to be different from the average coercer.  And this is in a group with a fury, a dirge, and me.  And I won't lie and tell you that those buffs don't make a huge difference.  But my best parses to date have been in AoA (x2, and it's because they're aoe mobs).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[nscragg]

<DIV>Great thread <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  However, with U24 and stuns, stifles, interrupts landing on Epics now, all of our strats are about to change?  Yes?  I can see a scenario where we are chain casting these types of spells timed with AOEs and just generally preventing damage to the MT grp.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know most of you have not group'd heroic content in some time as you raid constantly.  However, as I am just now at T6 Raid level, I use the tactics above in some heroic groups when we're short on healers.  The effect is dramatic.  I don't know of another class that can so decisively "tie up" a mob better than coercers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like my class because we are thinking players; much like the class we play.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'd be curious to see your thoughts after U24 and how it has changed your role.  I know for me, I would certainly consider a trade off of DPS in lieu of more stuns, stifles and interrupts which we haven't been able to use effectively in epic encounters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>