How Charm works in PvP?

[Magh]

<div>Or is it not working against players at all?</div>

[Melanctha]

<font color="#ffccff"><font size="2">~IF~ it lands it lasts about 2-3 seconds. Enough time to send the Queen into a guard it they are standing right next to one. It doesn't seem practical to mess with normally. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></font><div></div>

[Terayon]

stealing a qeynosian guard hehe.. sounds like fun<div></div>

[dimsoul2]

and i just found out that possession does not work against opponents in pvp/cry/quit<div></div>

[stoggy]

<div></div><div>even if charm does land if the guard doesnt 1 shot the q ... your screwed cause then your going to be fighting the q and the guard...</div>

[Kyro]

<div></div><div></div><p>Ontop of the very short duration that charm has in PvP, the pet becomes like an illusionists pet, you must be attacked for them to attack.</p><p>BUT, it is a way of CC in group PvP, try charming their tank just to avoid your group from being taunted.</p><p>-Daermon</p><p>Message Edited by Kyross on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:24 AM</span></p>

[Rile]

<div>The issue is the long casting time it has.  In PvP, fights are so quick and you are trying to get the jump on someone that Charming is useless.  If you seriously tried to charm someone the entire fight would be over and you would be dead because no one has time especially a weak mage to sit around just asking to get pwned while you attempt to charm something for 2-3 seconds. Just sue a stun and call it a day.</div>

[dimsoul2]

<div></div>It still bothers me that we are limited in PvP. Many other classes get stuns,stifles,and roots; and in PvP those are the abilities we [coercers] use most (in terms of CC). I chose to be a coercer because they have the ability to Mez and Charm targets, but this is definitly not the case in pvp (Why cant we charm the ENEMY(for more than 2 secs and >10% land chance), and make them attack thier allies???). Also the immunity issue with mezz/stun still pisses me off. Although mezing a target DOES stun it; it can be broken, so it should be on a different immunity check./whinemore<div></div><p>Message Edited by dimsoul2 on <span class="date_text">04-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:25 AM</span></p>

[Rile]

<div></div><p>I agree.</p><p> </p><p>Charm Duration in PvP should be increased.  Perhaps to 10 seconds from 2 seconds.  This way we have a chance to pull off something with that character without them being totally angry that they lost control for to long.  Most people would agree that 10 seconds is not that long of a time. I understand why SOE needed to water this down in PvP but they threw out the baby with the bathwater here.</p>

[dimsoul2]

Especially with the fontloaded time it takes us to even TRY to charm. Whats the default casting time for charm, without any haste? Like 6 seconds? As mentioned above those 6 seconds would be better spent trying to stun, get reactives on etc. This just turns us into a watered down wizard :/<div></div>

[Boonga]

<div>charm time is 6-8 sec depending on lvl spell.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Eldween]

<div>Coercer = Worse pvp class ever imo. As a coercer, i'm a kind of grp buffing station thats all. It suck so much. I can mezz with my master II right, but hey, can't dmg. And even the mental control thing suck in pvp. All i can do in 1 vs 1 is mezz the guy and run away from him. Fun pvp tactic isnt it?</div>

[dimsoul2]

Dont forget about the root-and-run tactic as well!<div></div>

[SikkistVendetta]

<div></div><p>Coercers are hardly the worst pvp class.</p><p>Coercer's can handle just about anyone 1v1 of equal lvl.</p><p>Also, as Dearmon said... it's much better CC than it is for dps or using it to fight.  (hint - immunity)</p>

[dimsoul2]

<div></div><div>I'm not saying we are the worst class, but instead commenting on the lack of CC we can actually assert in a fight. A few days ago we had a full group and some straggelers holding the ant ts station. I was amazed at how quickly the fights went but also had a blast. Since I cannot pre-stun my teamates (like in SB) there can be no stun immunity for them. My normal tactics were to mezz and/or stun the tanks, as well as the melee dps classes; stifle the mages/priests, and root the people who tried to run (/grin). I almost never casted and DD or DoT spells, and always used my reactives. I threw a charm out every 20 mins or so just to get a laugh out of my group.</div><div> </div><div>So we DO bring some CC to the battlefield, but is it too watered down? IMHO we should be able to charm opponents for <10 secs, and be able to force them to attack people of their alignment.</div><div> </div><div>[edit]</div><div>I'm still not sure about that whole "we can pretty much handle any class 1v1" statement. Because as a lvl 35 Coercer I will get beat down easily by monks even when im on top of my game. Wizards are a real pain as well as healers and prety much any other class for me. Come to think of it I dont think solo I can easily kill -- or even barely kill many other classes. Maby I just suck at pvp but i try to kite and use all my skills properly.</div><div> </div><div>/shrug</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by dimsoul2 on <span class="date_text">04-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:10 PM</span></p>

[Eldween]

<div><blockquote><hr>dimsoul2 wrote:<div></div><div>I'm not saying we are the worst class, but instead commenting on the lack of CC we can actually assert in a fight. A few days ago we had a full group and some straggelers holding the ant ts station. I was amazed at how quickly the fights went but also had a blast. Since I cannot pre-stun my teamates (like in SB) there can be no stun immunity for them. My normal tactics were to mezz and/or stun the tanks, as well as the melee dps classes; stifle the mages/priests, and root the people who tried to run (/grin). I almost never casted and DD or DoT spells, and always used my reactives. I threw a charm out every 20 mins or so just to get a laugh out of my group.</div><div> </div><div>So we DO bring some CC to the battlefield, but is it too watered down? IMHO we should be able to charm opponents for <10 secs, and be able to force them to attack people of their alignment.</div><div> </div><div>[edit]</div><div>I'm still not sure about that whole "we can pretty much handle any class 1v1" statement. Because as a lvl 35 Coercer I will get beat down easily by monks even when im on top of my game. Wizards are a real pain as well as healers and prety much any other class for me. Come to think of it I dont think solo I can easily kill -- or even barely kill many other classes. Maby I just suck at pvp but i try to kite and use all my skills properly.</div><div> </div><div>/shrug</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by dimsoul2 on <span class="date_text">04-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:10 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Same for me... :smileyindifferent:</div>

[kopingOwen]

<div>don´t forget.. power drain work perfectly well in PvP everyone cries that powerdrain don´t work on heroic and up mobs cuz they got to big pool..</div><div> </div><div>i agree that the charm is utterly useless in pvp since it takes to darn long to cast and have no duration what so ever..</div><div> </div><div>this is how i think.. coecer´s are working on 50% their PvE power in PvP. so when you kick that sorry sob´s butt you know you won with the odds againts you.. always =)</div><div> </div><div>I choose a coecer in pvp becouse of the challenge not to be the uber killakan</div>

[Eldween]

<div></div>Btw is it just me or the mob/pet you charm is nerf to death when you control it? cause in 1 vs 1, same level, the mob I charm always loose, and quite quickly.

[Manopow]

<DIV>When you charm a  mob it is definatley nerfed and not just in pvp.  had me a yellow heroic +++, against a even con reg mob .. I was not going to help him but i eventualy had to  [Removed for Content].??</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In pvp i guess i just thought mobs couldnt use there specials so thats why they sucked so bad?</DIV>

[Chog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eldween wrote:<BR> Btw is it just me or the mob/pet you charm is nerf to death when you control it? cause in 1 vs 1, same level, the mob I charm always loose, and quite quickly.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Mobs are reduced to no arrow mobs when charmed.  So when charming heroics they are reduced in survivability; however, the quality of charm will dictate what the charmed creatures skill level is at (master charm = all master spells from pet).</P> <P>If you have master charm and charm a no arrow (or a single up arrow caster) and send it against its equivalent with no help from yourself or others, the charmed creature will win more times tehn it loses.  Attempt that with ^^^ heroics and watch your pet get squashed in seconds.</P>

[Manopow]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Chogar wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>If you have master charm and charm a no arrow (or a single up arrow caster) and send it against its equivalent with no help from yourself or others, the charmed creature will win more times tehn it loses.  Attempt that with ^^^ heroics and watch your pet get squashed in seconds.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Could you please explain in further detail how exactly the level ( adept vs master ) of the charm spell effects what your charmed mob is capable of doing skill/spell wise?

[Chog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Manopow wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Chogar wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>If you have master charm and charm a no arrow (or a single up arrow caster) and send it against its equivalent with no help from yourself or others, the charmed creature will win more times tehn it loses.  Attempt that with ^^^ heroics and watch your pet get squashed in seconds.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Could you please explain in further detail how exactly the level ( adept vs master ) of the charm spell effects what your charmed mob is capable of doing skill/spell wise?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>When you have Master charm the Mob that is charmed will be using master skills / spells.  If you have Adept 1 charm the Mob will have Adept 1 skills / spells.  As to how powerful of an upgrade is from Adept to Master...  /shrug.  Look at the difference between your spells from Adept 1 quality to Master quality, I would assume the difference would be similar to a Mobs difference in skill / spell powers.</P>

[ca]

<DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=27&message.id=9824" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=27&message.id=9824</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That is the charm guide stickied at the top of the class section, there are several FAQ's that explain charm better and how it works, if you are running with anything under an adept 3 charm you are going to have terrible pets and heroic con mobs make absolutely no matter whatsoever, I know they look wonderful but they lose all that wonderful strength so stick with solo mobs, some nameds can be charmed (very few) and they are just about the only pets that retain massive amounts of hitpoints.</DIV>

[Gutmonger]

I can find a good charm in almost any zone 40+. Those master charm pets kick butt. They are superb dps. If its not master then dont bother.

[Gutmonger]

The upgrade from adept to adept III is small. The upgrade from adept III to master is HUGE! The pets dps will almost double.